Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

RustyNut

Nox wrote: »

"still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest …"

Still a man says what he wants to say and disregards the truth.

Nox

Leroy42 wrote: »

Nox wrote: »

It appears that multiple posters here either didn't see/hear the speech given by President Donald J Trump in Montana or they are following the words of a song I posted several pages ago … "still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest".  The POTUS did not condone what Pruitt did outside his duties as Secretary … what he lauded was the regulations that were rescinded.  O well … "still a man hears …"

Simply by not firing him he was condoning it.  That is the nature of being the boss, if you do nothing when informed of wrong-doing you are tacitly accepting it.

He accepted his resignation, he didn't demand it.  He didn't state that whilst Pruitt may well have been doing a good job Trump admin must not only be, but be seen to be, above the level of the swamp.

No one here knows what went on among the WH staff.  My experience tells me that quietly encouraging someone to resign and say some make-nice comments about their departure helps eliminate a potential disgruntled former employee.

Itssoeasy

Nox wrote: »

No one here knows what went on among the WH staff.  My experience tells me that quietly encouraging someone to resign and say some make-nice comments about their departure helps eliminate a potential disgruntled former employee.

Where did you copy and paste that from ? Any chance you'd respond to mine or the poster below me in answering genuine questions ?

jooksavage

Nox wrote: »

No one here knows what went on among the WH staff. 

Neither do you but you're the one reaching for a a description of events that flies on the face of Trumps own words on the matter, not to mention the months where he tolerated Pruitts outrageous behaviour.

Christy42

Nox wrote: »

Leroy42 wrote: »

Nox wrote: »

It appears that multiple posters here either didn't see/hear the speech given by President Donald J Trump in Montana or they are following the words of a song I posted several pages ago … "still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest".  The POTUS did not condone what Pruitt did outside his duties as Secretary … what he lauded was the regulations that were rescinded.  O well … "still a man hears …"

Simply by not firing him he was condoning it.  That is the nature of being the boss, if you do nothing when informed of wrong-doing you are tacitly accepting it.

He accepted his resignation, he didn't demand it.  He didn't state that whilst Pruitt may well have been doing a good job Trump admin must not only be, but be seen to be, above the level of the swamp.

No one here knows what went on among the WH staff.  My experience tells me that quietly encouraging someone to resign and say some make-nice comments about their departure helps eliminate a potential disgruntled former employee.

No but you are assuming. We are going off what he has definitely said. You keep accusing others of only hearing what they want and yet here you have something based on nothing Trump has said.

The point certainly stands that Trump has not been seen to take a hard line against corruption and abuse of power. I would consider that far more important than Pruitt leaving happy.

Thepoet85

Nox wrote:

All of this blather about President Donald J Trump and yet not one poster has mentioned the size of the crowds he draws. Packed auditoriums with thousands waiting outside … everywhere he gives a speech. The hate speech given by the congressperson encouraging harassment had at most a couple dozen folks … all of whom were in the picture. If this is such a 'blue wave' …. where are the droplets (aka democrats/socialists).

I'd just like to know why he's still campaigning for a job he already has, but seems incapable of doing.

Nox

Just for the record … all of my answers and/or statements are my own words.  It is insulting to ask "Where did you copy and paste that from ?"  I know that my support for President Donald J Trump is something several posters here dislike, but … that's the way it is.  I have been asked to defend actions/statements/decisions of the POTUS … an impossible task … just as it is impossible to change individual beliefs.  Now, do I condone each and everything the POTUS does?  No.  But then reading the postings here … several posters hate everything he does.  I don't seem to recall too many folks giving credit where credit is due … example … the opposition party screamed about DACA.  The POTUS did something.  The opposition screamed about that … and offered no solution.  The purpose was to only scream.  Maybe someone could point out a post here where the President Donald J Trump haters gave him credit.  

Yes, I do say what I want to say … but disregarding the truth?  Hardly.

Itssoeasy

Nox wrote: »

Just for the record … all of my answers and/or statements are my own words.  It is insulting to ask "Where did you copy and paste that from ?"  I know that my support for President Donald J Trump is something several posters here dislike, but … that's the way it is.  I have been asked to defend actions/statements/decisions of the POTUS … an impossible task … just as it is impossible to change individual beliefs.  Now, do I condone each and everything the POTUS does?  No.  But then reading the postings here … several posters hate everything he does.  I don't seem to recall too many folks giving credit where credit is due … example … the opposition party screamed about DACA.  The POTUS did something.  The opposition screamed about that … and offered no solution.  The purpose was to only scream.  Maybe someone could point out a post here where the President Donald J Trump haters gave him credit.  

Yes, I do say what I want to say … but disregarding the truth?  Hardly.

I don't think any poster dislike the fact you support Donald trump. It's the fact you keep parroting talking points which can be proven to be outright lies at worst or distortions at best.

Yes he ended it and blamed the democrats. That leadership there.

Leroy42

Nobody dislike your support for Trump, people are merely questioning the logic and consistency of the positions you take. As in religion, once the debate starts to move against them, the cry of "stop attacking me, just accept my belief" is trotted out. If you come onto a public forum to express you opinion, then it is only right and to be expected that others will look to understand that position and that involves questioning it.

You say that its an impossible task to defend Trumps actions/statements/decisions? Why? There are many decision that people make that I don't agree with but I can defend the actions being taken. Of course it is possible to change beliefs, not consciously I would argue, but opening yourself up to questions, critically examining your position and looking at the consistency of the approach. People move all the time believing in religion to not, so your point to flawed.

People don't hate everything he does for some irrational reason, they hate nearly everything he does because none of it makes sense, is usually badly thought out, seemingly based on nothing more than wanting to destroy anything Obama was involved in. In many cases it is based on nothing more than wanted to create trouble and he appears to be very easily manipulated.

Opposition parties are not there to offer solutions, they are there to point out the issues. Trump, as POTUS, he needs to come up with solutions. He asked them to come up with a solution, they did and he threw it back at them.

Igotadose

Job growth down in June: https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/06/june-2018-jobs-numbers-697827

"
Job growth decelerated in June, the government reported Friday, as employers struggled to find qualified workers to fill an abundance of job openings.

The Labor Department reported 213,000 new jobs in June, down from 244,000 added in May. Unemployment ticked up to 4 percent after falling to 3.8 percent in May."

---
Regarding 'opposition parties.' Let's not conflate the UK system that was the model for the one in Ireland. The Democratic Party and the Republican Party aren't 'opposition parties' to each other. The intention of the founding fathers that parties if they existed, would not be as permanent with so much influence. The implementation intended for the US was geared towards reaching consensus.

It's not like the UK where there's a 'shadow' government 'shadowing' every position in the government currently run by some party. They're supposed to cooperate and negotiate. However, since about 2008, simple-minded opposition has gained control, leading to anti-American behaviors like holding up the nomination of Gorsuch, and endless monolithic votes to repeal Obamacare.

I don't have an answer as to how to fix it, but monolithic opposition voting somehow has to stop. It's led to way too much presidential diktat via executive orders, by Bush, Obama and Trump, bypassing the Constitution, which devolves legislation creation to the Congress.

But, it's a conundrum, and the world's suffering as a result. And all the lying about how great everything is from the POTUS really just lets his followers continue to ignore their responsibilities as citizens (like, to vote, and be informed) and 'feel good about themselves.

looksee

Nox wrote: »

  Maybe someone could point out a post here where the President Donald J Trump haters gave him credit.  [/size][/color]

Two points - 1. why do you keep changing font and font size randomly if it is not c/p?
2. ref the above quote, why should there be posts giving him credit? I honestly, genuinely cannot think of one single thing that he has done that I would give him credit for. Any 'successes' are either spins based on his own lies, or possibly total coincidence, though to be honest I can't actually think of any fortuitous coincidences, only lies and spin.

You can't even claim that he is, even by his own standards, really trying to make a success of being a president - he would need to act like a reasonably responsible adult to do that - you know, the ordinary things, do a day's work, not play golf at times when he should be working, construct coherent sentences, give a small bit of thought to what he is saying, even tell the truth about little things, so we might be persuaded to believe the bigger lies. He is not even a competent fool.

Wanderer78

Igotadose wrote:

Job growth down in June:

Some American commentators are saying the real unemployment figures are as much as 20%, which I find hard to believe, but who knows

Captain Obvious

Well the good news for all the unemployed pure bred Americans is that Trump is throwing foreigners out of the armed services so they'll be able to join up instead.

StringerBell

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Some American commentators are saying the real unemployment figures are as much as 20%, which I find hard to believe, but who knows

And that is what some politicians on the Dem side should blast with a megaphone, it doesn't matter if it's a true as the 40% figure Trump used in the election.

Fight fire with fire, it isn't ideal, but for my money there is a time to be idealistic and there is a time to be realistic. There needs to be checks put on this presidency. There has to be checks on every presidency and his own party which controls everything has shown zero appetite to do its job.

Nox

looksee wrote: »

Nox wrote: »

  Maybe someone could point out a post here where the President Donald J Trump haters gave him credit.  [/size][/color]

Two points - 1. why do you keep changing font and font size randomly if it is not c/p?
2. ref the above quote, why should there be posts giving him credit? I honestly, genuinely cannot think of one single thing that he has done that I would give him credit for. Any 'successes' are either spins based on his own lies, or possibly total coincidence, though to be honest I can't actually think of any fortuitous coincidences, only lies and spin.

You can't even claim that he is, even by his own standards, really trying to make a success of being a president - he would need to act like a reasonably responsible adult to do that - you know, the ordinary things, do a day's work, not play golf at times when he should be working, construct coherent sentences, give a small bit of thought to what he is saying, even tell the truth about little things, so we might be persuaded to believe the bigger lies. He is not even a competent fool.

Point 1 … correct about font size … happens when you c/p from a post on this board … incorrect about my c/p concerning what I have to say … all my words are my own.


Point 2 … you said it yourself with these words " I honestly, genuinely cannot think of one single thing that he has done that I would give him credit for."  (since I cannot yet see what comes out on the board, I think you should notice a font size change)  Any response will be labeled as 'talking points' … which by the way is exactly how I feel about many of the anti posts here.

Nox

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Nox wrote: »

All of this blather about President Donald J Trump and yet not one poster has mentioned the size of the crowds he draws.  Packed auditoriums with thousands waiting outside … everywhere he gives a speech.  The hate speech given by the congressperson encouraging harassment had at most a couple dozen folks … all of whom were in the picture.  If this is such a 'blue wave' …. where are the droplets (aka democrats/socialists).

By hate speech are you referring to her telling people to stand up to corrupt liars in government?

Does the word 'incite' mean anything?

StringerBell

Comic gold

Danzy

StringerBell wrote: »

And that is what some politicians on the Dem side should blast with a megaphone, it doesn't matter if it's a true as the 40% figure Trump used in the election.

Fight fire with fire, it isn't ideal, but for my money there is a time to be idealistic and there is a time to be realistic. There needs to be checks put on this presidency. There has to be checks on every presidency and his own party which controls everything has shown zero appetite to do its job.

If you are taking underemployment but especially those who are of an age to work but who have dropped out of the workforce, often for valid reasons you could mangle the figures to 20%, even near 40% but it would be wrong to call it unemployed.

One thing is certain, that the trend of ever lower workforce participation, of lower quality jobs will be maintained longterm and only accelerate.

Nox

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Nox wrote: »

Plenty of disputed claims of President Donald J Trump rally attendance.  I found it quite amusing that one of the listed 'sources' was from January 2017.  And there have been multiple examples of the crowd being scanned.  Something tells me that the sheer absence of  'fact check' articles about the crowds outside the speech venues speaks volumes.  And as far as the 'hate speech' …. stirring up a crowd with venom to incite actions hardly qualifies for title of 'free speech'.  And for the third time I must repeat myself in response to many of the previous comments … "still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest …"

Crowd size means nothing to how good a leader he is Nox and well you know it. How you seemingly willingly support this guy when it has been proven he has none of even the basic qualities to be even a basic world leader. Donald Trump will never be considered a good US President as even Nixon had some cop on about him.

Hmmm … none of the 'basic qualities … Isn't being elected to govern a nation a basic quality required of a world leader?  And as far as "never be considered …" never is a long time, and yes you and the anti crowd never will.  You brought up Richard M Nixon … he did end the war, he did go to China among other things.  Watergate has been the opposition feeding frenzy for decades … we'll see how this current Russia schtuff last after it is debunked.

Danzy

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Well the good news for all the unemployed pure bred Americans is that Trump is throwing foreigners out of the armed services so they'll be able to join up instead.

In and of itself, there is nothing wrong with that.

A State's obligation is to its citizens first, for those who believe there is nothing as society, then the market dictates, naturally they will disagree with it, with ICE etc etc.

Captain Obvious

Nox wrote: »

Does the word 'incite' mean anything?

It does, but no much on it's own. For example, incitement to hatred would be telling your supporters a particular group of people are pests and full of rapists. Incitement to violence would be telling people that the media is attacking the US and are an enemy of the people.

Nox

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Igotadose wrote:

Job growth down in June:

Some American commentators are saying the real unemployment figures are as much as 20%, which I find hard to believe, but who knows

Nice comment.  Now would some of those commentators happen to work for CNN, NBC, ABC, or CBS?

Wanderer78

Nox wrote: »

Nice comment.  Now would some of those commentators happen to work for CNN, NBC, ABC, or CBS?

not that im aware of, i mainly listen to largely independent commentators, some would never get an opportunity to be interviewed by such organisations

looksee

Nox wrote: »

Point 1 … correct about font size … happens when you c/p from a post on this board … incorrect about my c/p concerning what I have to say … all my words are my own.


Point 2 … you said it yourself with these words " I honestly, genuinely cannot think of one single thing that he has done that I would give him credit for."  (since I cannot yet see what comes out on the board, I think you should notice a font size change)  Any response will be labeled as 'talking points' … which by the way is exactly how I feel about many of the anti posts here.

You must have some very strange settings on whatever you are using, no-one else has the same problems.

On point 2, I am trying to explain why 'Trump haters' don't give him credit; its not out of spite or meanness, there is just nothing to give credit for. And I would not describe myself as a 'hater' - I don't hate anyone, not even him. I think he is a dangerous fool but hate implies a very strong emotion at a personal level, he makes me anxious for the world, and contemptuous of him and all his followers, but hate? No.

I have broken more Elton John records, he seems to have a lot of records. And I, by the way, I don’t have a musical instrument. I don’t have a guitar or an organ. No organ. Elton has an organ. And lots of other people helping. No we’ve broken a lot of records. We’ve broken virtually every record. Because you know, look I only need this space. They need much more room. For basketball, for hockey and all of the sports, they need a lot of room. We don’t need it. We have people in that space. So we break all of these records. Really we do it without like, the musical instruments. This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.

This is a bit of the Montana speech that mcmoustache posted, can you read it and defend it as being 'superb' as you described it. It is meaningless, incoherent ramblings - or can you tell us what he was getting at?

Itssoeasy

Nox wrote: »

Hmmm … none of the 'basic qualities … Isn't being elected to govern a nation a basic quality required of a world leader?  And as far as "never be considered …" never is a long time, and yes you and the anti crowd never will.  You brought up Richard M Nixon … he did end the war, he did go to China among other things.  Watergate has been the opposition feeding frenzy for decades … we'll see how this current Russia schtuff last after it is debunked.

No getting elected is the goal. It doesn't require any qualities as far as I can see. Trump got elected because he was against a highly unlikeable candidate in Hillary Clinton.

Yes, never is a long time but as I said several pages back, all US Presidents have had some kind of moral Compass. Trump has shown not a single sign of him having any intention of trying to be a good president. I'm not anti Trump actually. I'm anti incompetence and ignorance of even the basic government norms.

Yes, watergate was Nixon's downfall but he wasn't and won't be seen as bad as Trump. Nixon did leave some sort of legacy.

Unless, you are Robert. S Mueller then you can't in any way make the statement that the Russian investigation will be debunked.

looksee

Just as an aside, the quote

I have broken more Elton John records, he seems to have a lot of records. And I, by the way, I don’t have a musical instrument. I don’t have a guitar or an organ. No organ. Elton has an organ. And lots of other people helping. No we’ve broken a lot of records. We’ve broken virtually every record. Because you know, look I only need this space. They need much more room. For basketball, for hockey and all of the sports, they need a lot of room. We don’t need it. We have people in that space. So we break all of these records. Really we do it without like, the musical instruments. This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.

Is referring to attendance records (obvious when you think about it, what else would he be concerned about). He is saying (kinda) that even without music or sport he is breaking records for attendance. This is of course not true, his attendances compared with EJ's crowd sizes does not even begin to compare, but who needs facts when you are on a roll, rambling.

Christy42

Nox wrote: »

Nice comment.  Now would some of those commentators happen to work for CNN, NBC, ABC, or CBS?

Well Trump has not halved unemployment rates so unless he was lying through his teeth about the economy before the election...

I mean sure I suspect those numbers are over stated and would prefer them to be accurate but they are far, far more realistic than what Republicans blathered on about.

Igotadose

looksee wrote: »

Just as an aside, the quote



Is referring to attendance records (obvious when you think about it, what else would he be concerned about). He is saying (kinda) that even without music or sport he is breaking records for attendance. This is of course not true, his attendances compared with EJ's crowd sizes does not even begin to compare, but who needs facts when you are on a roll, rambling.

I did try and find attendance numbers, seems like the Montana arena was full.

Interestingly (to me anyway), here's a veritable sea of people at an Obama rally in 2008: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SU4WR_rcGUA

So, given Obama got thousands of people (and more votes and more EEC votes) than Trump, we can agree he was a much better president by the rally-size/EEC vote criteria, correct?

Igotadose

Nox wrote: »

Hmmm … none of the 'basic qualities … Isn't being elected to govern a nation a basic quality required of a world leader?  And as far as "never be considered …" never is a long time, and yes you and the anti crowd never will.  You brought up Richard M Nixon … he did end the war, he did go to China among other things.  Watergate has been the opposition feeding frenzy for decades … we'll see how this current Russia schtuff last after it is debunked.

Quality isn't requirement. World leaders may require election (not sure where you put V. Putin and X. Liu in that group, their elections are a farce).

Nixon would have gone down as a great President, except for that pesky Watergate thing. Oh, and it's the tGOP that have been on about it 'for decades,' still smarting over their guy getting destroyed. But, this is the Trump thread, not the Nixon thread.

Trump's no Nixon, not half as smart by far. Nixon had a functioning state department among other things, not an empty clown car filled with offensive alt-right trolls like the ambassadors to Germany and the Netherlands.

RustyNut

Nox wrote: »

Yes, I do say what I want to say … but disregarding the truth?  Hardly.

I was referring to dishonest Don when I posted that.