Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

2 Scoops

MadYaker wrote: »

But all I see from Trump supporters (online at least) is deflection and whataboutery. Are they not genuinely worried about this? Because it sure as hell seems to me like they should be. These people claim to be nationalists who love democracy and yet here we have a foreign power attempting to subvert their elections and it is simply dismissed in favor of ranting about muslims and antifa? Bewildering. You'd have to be a fool to think that russian intel services aren't trying the same thing in the upcoming mid terms.

Trump supporters or whatever you want to call them think the DNC and Democrats in general are untrustworthy. The DNC paid a third party $170,000 to write a report on their server, a group called crowdstrike. They refused to give server access to the FBI and DHS even after multiple requests. The intelligence community relied on these findings to write their own reports.

There's some ambiguity about the group because they wrote a similar report on hacking in the Ukraine and ended up retracting a lot of it. That's pretty must the gist of it, if the DNC handed over the server to the FBI or DHS like they should have done then there wouldn't be so much conspiracy stuff surrounding it. I think it's obvious Russia were meddling but the question as to why they didn't hand over the server and paid a third party will always be there.

Think of this way, if Trump's campaign refused to give their server to the FBI/DHS and paid someone else to write a report, would you question it?

mcmoustache

2 Scoops wrote: »

Trump supporters or whatever you want to call them think the DNC and Democrats in general are untrustworthy. The DNC paid a third party $170,000 to write a report on their server, a group called crowdstrike. They refused to give server access to the FBI and DHS even after multiple requests. The intelligence community relied on these findings to write their own reports.

There's some ambiguity about the group because they wrote a similar report on hacking in the Ukraine and ended up retracting a lot of it. That's pretty must the gist of it, if the DNC handed over the server to the FBI or DHS like they should have done then there wouldn't be so much conspiracy stuff surrounding it. I think it's obvious Russia were meddling but the question as to why they didn't hand over the server and paid a third party will always be there.

Think of this way, if Trump's campaign refused to give their server to the FBI/DHS and paid someone else to write a report, would you question it?

None of this changes the facts of what happened earlier today. You know that servers can be imaged, right? I suspect that you do but you like to muddy the waters with some "But Hillareeeeee!" nonsense. Then again, well done on that talking point. I saw similar earlier from the same place that you keep finding your other thoughts and opinions.




Well done, anyway, I suppose. I would have expected better but I guess you peaked about 3 accounts ago.

listermint

listermint wrote: »

Sorry but anyone who describes people those who are not 'with' trump as wealthy leftys does not deserve any kudos.

Read the post content you'll soon see what's what.


No time for that, that is not self thought it's subscribed group think

For anyone wondering how Danzy riled Listermint so much:


"Many of the people most opposed to Trump are ideologues and largely from well heeled white neighbourhoods, especially the ones further to the left."

mcmoustache wrote: »

What would you suggest? It was enough for Trump to be enough of a snowflake to stay away from London. Poor liddle Trump - afraid of a balloon.

A massive Mexican kid in a cage. Instead of a comically tiny one in the air, they could have spent that 16k sterling or whatever on a gigantic and meaningful one on the ground.

Midlife

Deleted User wrote: »

A massive Mexican kid in a cage. Instead of a comically tiny one in the air, they could have spent that 16k sterling or whatever on a gigantic and meaningful one on the ground.

This may have worked better on everyone else but I think if you're trying to piss off Trump, you simply go after his image.

listermint

[Deleted User] wrote: »

For anyone wondering how Danzy riled Listermint so much:


"Many of the people most opposed to Trump are ideologues and largely from well heeled white neighbourhoods, especially the ones further to the left."





A massive Mexican kid in a cage. Instead of a comically tiny one in the air, they could have spent that 16k sterling or whatever on a gigantic and meaningful one on the ground.

Riled, nah sorry wrong guy.

I think you'll find I pointed out lies , yours and his.

Constant barrage of lies with no evidence to back it up like the anecdotes you came out with.

Nice big paint brush narrative for people because they dislike your president your guy . How anyone can have such avid devotion for an individual so utterly clueless is amusing.

It's almost as if people enjoy him because he is trolling the world like people enjoy anarchy..just because..it's like the internet came to life and they love that .

RIGOLO

Walter Bishop wrote: »

irishash wrote: »

How about Forbes....that good enough for you?? Pretty much identical to molly.....

Source - https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamhartung/2017/04/08/march-jobs-report-10-impacts-on-you-including-falling-unemployment-and-rising-wages/#482e5d7e7462

Somehow I doubt it will be - deflect, deflect, deflect.

Why would you doubt it, I already posted a response to the same chart when it was cut and pasted from mollysmiddleamerica blog..
so I just give the same response I gave as the first time someone posted it . 
Its the same chart, same response. 

And like all economic numbers it has to be looked at in tandem with many others wage earnings, debt , deficit, GDP, inflation , interest rates, yield curve etc. 
All of which are very positive and reflect Trump Administration achievements on the multi-strategy multi-pronged economic strategy.
All this guff about the economic progress being the result of Obama has to stop at some point, at some point anti-Trumpers will have to accept its now become Trumps economy.. or do ye plan on saying any positive economic data is the result of Obama right up to November 2020,
Remember Obama and the DNC lost over 1000 local, state and congress seats in his 8 years , and ultimately the voters rejected more of the same economic policy when HRC was offered to them in 2016. 
Its Trumps Administrations economy and its booming. Roll on November , the blue wave will lock in the house and Senate a, perhaps another SCOTUS pick, and 2020 will be a lock in also. 

listermint

RIGOLO wrote: »

Why would you doubt it, I already posted a response to the same chart when it was cut and pasted from mollysmiddleamerica blog..
so I just give the same response I gave as the first time someone posted it . 
Its the same chart, same response. 

He's been in the job 16 months he cannot physically have had he impact you are suggesting on the Economy.

That's a falsehood and it has to stop. Come back at the end of next year and we can talk real numbers

Midlife

RIGOLO wrote: »

Why would you doubt it, I already posted a response to the same chart when it was cut and pasted from mollysmiddleamerica blog..
so I just give the same response I gave as the first time someone posted it . 
Its the same chart, same response. 

Ah yes, Obama's figures don't tell the whole story but like increased black jobs is enough to show that Trump doesn't dislike foreigners.

Why keep going with the pretense of rationality, just abandon logic.

listermint

listermint wrote: »

Riled, nah sorry wrong guy.

I think you'll find I pointed out lies , yours and his.

Constant barrage of lies with no evidence to back it up like the anecdotes you came out with.

Nice big paint brush narrative for people because they dislike your president your guy . How anyone can have such avid devotion for an individual so utterly clueless is amusing.

It's almost as if people enjoy him because he is trolling the world like people enjoy anarchy..just because..it's like the internet came to life and they love that .

For anyone wondering what I did to rile Listermint up, here's what I wrote:

In fairness, for two years I've been reading here and elsewhere that Trump's voters were the uneducated poor white people of America. If those aren't the white people who are massively anti-Trump, it leaves the non-poor educated as he described.

Broad strokes obviously but it fits with my own anecdotal experiences in terms of the people who are always complaining about Trump.


I would love if you could manage to stop hyperventilating for a second and point of the constant barrage of lies, but I fear that's unlikely.

"Avid devotion"? Nope, can't see that it either.


You're embarrassing yourself with your wild accusations and exaggerations. I tried reporting your poisonous posts but the mods only ban people like me, so I guess I can confront you myself for the next few minutes that I'm allowed to post here, unhinged old man.

When this post gets me banned very soon, you will all thank the mod for getting rid of such a rascal. Every one of those thanks is an admission that debate is dead here.

Igotadose

So, as was discussed here when the collusion discussions started after the election, Wikileaks was deeply in bed with Russia. Really too bad, a previously creditable organization now just an outlet for information stolen by spies (and possibly fabricated.) Greenwald himself may not be on the Russian take - I doubt it haven't seen any evidence of such, but those defending Wikileaks a year ago really should look at the indictment information that's out there. Here's a bit about Greenwald's most recent defensive play at some farcical panel discussion: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/glenn-greenwald-tells-russia-liberals-are-scapegoating-them.html

RIGOLO

Manic Moran wrote: »

RIGOLO wrote: »

We agreed a major update of the NATO Command Structure. With more than 1,200 new personnel.

I wouldn’t read much into the Norfolk thing. It’s been the major US navy base on the East Coast for decades, if not the major US navy base anywhere for over a century. They just reactivated Second Fleet in Norfolk a couple months ago (Responsible for North Atlantic), it was deactivated in 2011.

Remove the 'tank googles' , replace with civvie specs. 

When it comes to the Virginia Senate race the political spin on this will be wrung  out for every 1 of those 1200 jobs thats earmarked for Norfolk and for every $ spent in ACT expansion in Norfolk.
Trump has said its a state they will aim to flip.  DNC only has a 10% lead . 

Trust me theres already a digital media intern assigned to run the targetted  'lookalike' and 'darkposts'  social media campaign to wrench every vote out of every tidbit in that NATO announcement. And if not there soon will be. Wars arent being won much by Shermans anymore, it tends to be the old adage of win the heart and minds, and social digital media is the platform, the Trump administration excel at that. 

Trumps last visit to Virginia was hosted on the most expensive  ship ever built, USS Gerald R. Ford 
Where better to tout a military spending hike than from the deck of the most expensive ship ever built?
Im pretty sure when Trump returns to campaign for the GOP in the Senate race he will pull a similar stunt , and promote the NATO soundbites. 
The Trump Administration proved they are the best political machine the US has ever seen, they will not miss this oppurtunity. Whilst the DNC and the left run their campaigns on the same failed modus operandi . 
NATO Command centers are a law unto themselves, heck Africom isnt even in Africa.

Igotadose

Oh, and didn't someone post some lie about how protests weren't large against Trump? Easily debunked - the London protest was huuuge.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/the-crowds-at-londons-anti-trump-protests-were-enormous.html

In the torture that was the presser after Nato, Trump blathered something about 'there's always protests.'

You can google protests against Obama. Sure enough, there were some. Small though. So, we can confidently state that Trump's definitely exceeding his predecessor in 'how many people gather to protest him' department. Good for the Brits for keeping him out of London. So I guess Trump was right (!) about the US embassy location - he didn't visit. Of course, he was afraid of protests there. I wonder if there were any.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/apr/29/trump-hits-out-at-lousy-location-of-us-embassy-in-london

Midlife

RIGOLO wrote: »

Remove the 'tank googles' , replace with civvie specs. 

When it comes to the Virginia Senate race the political spin on this will be wrung  out for every 1 of those 1200 jobs thats earmarked for Norfolk and for every $ spent in ACT expansion in Norfolk.
Trump has said its a state they will aim to flip.  DNC only has a 10% lead . 

Trust me theres already a digital media intern assigned to run the targetted  'lookalike' and 'darkposts'  social media campaign to wrench every vote out of every tidbit in that NATO announcement. And if not there soon will be. Wars arent being won much by Shermans anymore, it tends to be the old adage of win the heart and minds, and social digital media is the platform, the Trump administration excel at that. 

Trumps last visit to Virginia was hosted on the most expensive  ship ever built, USS Gerald R. Ford 
Where better to tout a military spending hike than from the deck of the most expensive ship ever built?
Im pretty sure when Trump returns to campaign for the GOP in the Senate race he will pull a similar stunt , and promote the NATO soundbites. 
The Trump Administration proved they are the best political machine the US has ever seen, they will not miss this oppurtunity. Whilst the DNC and the left run their campaigns on the same failed modus operandi . 
NATO Command centers are a law unto themselves, heck Africom isnt even in Africa.

He's good at PR allright.

Was impressed that whilst meeting people at NATO he was still being briefed on what was coming up on fox and friends and tweeting accordingly.

If only he was as competent at 'being in office'.

RIGOLO

listermint wrote: »

RIGOLO wrote: »

Why would you doubt it, I already posted a response to the same chart when it was cut and pasted from mollysmiddleamerica blog..
so I just give the same response I gave as the first time someone posted it . 
Its the same chart, same response. 

He's been in the job 16 months he cannot physically have had he impact you are suggesting on the Economy.

That's a falsehood and it has to stop. Come back at the end of next year and we can talk real numbers

among MANY other things he gave the 4th largest TAX CUT in US history and you claim he cant have had an impact on the economy...
The left are embarrassing themselves now with their analysis.

Leroy42

RIGOLO wrote: »

Trust me theres already a digital media intern assigned to run the targetted  'lookalike' and 'darkposts'  social media campaign to wrench every vote out of every tidbit in that NATO announcement. And if not there soon will be.

Did you really just post this? I mean, you asked us to trust you that you knew and then admitted that you don't know!

RIGOLO wrote: »

Wars arent being won much by Shermans anymore, it tends to be the old adage of win the heart and minds, and social digital media is the platform, the Trump administration excel at that.

 

Totally agree with you. Which if why Trumps total lack of concern by the clear evidence of Russia interference not only staggering and deeply concerning but has led to his supporters being willing to leave their whole democracy open to attack in order to protect their man.

Midlife

RIGOLO wrote: »

among MANY other things he gave the 4th largest TAX CUT in US history and you claim he cant have had an impact on the economy...
The left are embarrassing themselves now with their analysis.

Hang on, Trump called it 'the biggest tax cut and reform in US history' in his state of the union address.

Explain?

Wanderer78

RIGOLO wrote:

among MANY other things he gave the 4th largest TAX CUT in US history and you claim he cant have had an impact on the economy... The left are embarrassing themselves now with their analysis.

Yup, it gave the majority a chance to get involved in 'share buy back schemes', as the wealth created, 'trickled down'!

Igotadose

Slate's put together a timeline including the new indictment information of "Trump Campaign" (really, people associated with Trump, not necessarily on the campaign team) and Russia. Pretty damning stuff. All done before the election. I've bookmarked this for future use when the 'no collusion' zombies pop up again once Trump tweets something about there not being any collusion. It's easy to lose track of this kind of info as there's so much noise coming out of Trump to distract and all the epic failures to watch him make.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/07/muellers-indictment-of-russian-hackers-is-full-of-clues-about-trumpworld.html

Professor Moriarty

RIGOLO wrote: »

among MANY other things he gave the 4th largest TAX CUT in US history and you claim he cant have had an impact on the economy...
The left are embarrassing themselves now with their analysis.

Tax cuts and spending increases (not for the poor).

Two simple questions I'd like you to answer:

What is your opinion on the US deficit?
What is your definition of "the left"?

Leroy42

RIGOLO wrote: »

among MANY other things he gave the 4th largest TAX CUT in US history and you claim he cant have had an impact on the economy...
The left are embarrassing themselves now with their analysis.

And yet there are no significant upwsings in the economy.

Shows us the data that proves the impact that Trump has had. All the data presented so far has shown a continuation of the effects of Obama's policies, the continuation of the upward trends that were already in place.

So he has given away massive amounts of tax revenue and so far has achieved very little in return. If nothing dramatic happens, then all Trump will have achieved is massively increasing the debt and reducing the revenues available to fund things like infrastructure and the military.

Danzy

listermint wrote: »

Riled, nah sorry wrong guy.

I think you'll find I pointed out lies , yours and his.

Constant barrage of lies with no evidence to back it up like the anecdotes you came out with.

Nice big paint brush narrative for people because they dislike your president your guy . How anyone can have such avid devotion for an individual so utterly clueless is amusing.

It's almost as if people enjoy him because he is trolling the world like people enjoy anarchy..just because..it's like the internet came to life and they love that .

Happy are those who believe but have yet not seen!

You certainly seem more black and white than others. Rigolo bats hard for The Donald, you are his mirror image on the anti side.

It is hardly contentious to say the Left have become dominated by the well to do and it's Outlook changed accordingly.

It is a key challenge for its survival. As it falls in to electoral obscurity in much of Europe, it may be too late to change

mattser

Danzy wrote: »

Happy are those who believe but have yet not seen!

They're pretty riled alright, Danzy. Any contrarian view to these people, and all logic and reason disappear.
As for the big baby prank, I think most people saw it as pathetic.

Water John

The pathetic, was the guy giving the bullish interview to The Sun and then trying to row back and calling it, fake news to the same journalist, sitting smiling in front of him.

Captain Obvious

Water John wrote: »

The pathetic, was the guy giving the bullish interview to The Sun and then trying to row back and calling it, fake news to the same journalist, sitting smiling in front of him.

Then Trump himself said they had tapes of the interview as proof and would provide them on request. They have not done so.

Water John

Oh, The Sun have obliged with those tapes.

Eric Cartman

StringerBell wrote: »

He didn't realise she was a communist till the end of the interview to be fair to him, a master of preparation.

If he had have ge would have sank ger argument twice as quick. Its scary that they'll let people who believe in the 'jim corr of political ideologies' onto television to discuss politics

Gbear

MadYaker wrote: »

Why is Trump so soft on Putin and Russia in general? There is definitely reason enough for sactions at the very least no? I've been reading facebook, reddit and a few other websites to try and guage Trump supporters reaction to this and how they square this with Trumps general attitude towards russia and most seem to put it down to some sort of conspiracy theory by "the deep state".

There's also quite a lot of stoking of pro-Russian sentiment.

So on the one hand, Russia never does anything wrong - no hacking, no interference in Brexit, Front National, other far right surges across Europe, except sometimes they're just giving friendly support (and why shouldn't they?), Novichok was a bad case of the sniffles, and so on.

On the other, and you see this sort of naive tripe on here as well - Russia aren't the enemy, they're entitled to invade other sovereign nations, and they're not really cracking down on gays or political dissidents.

It's quite transparent in how people are parroting talking points and misinformation from Russian sources, falling for it perhaps because they're leftist anti-Americans, conspiracy theorists, or maybe because they're just fascists who really do support the jack-booted form of politics espoused by Putin.

Quite a lot of people don't really care about democracy in the abstract. Maybe they don't understand it, or are just comically shortsighted, but even if they see this kind of undermining going on, they can't make the connection to understand why it matters. So long as "their guy" is in the hot seat, they turn their brain off.

People are really **** at thinking systematically.

And that's not a conservative thing, or a Republican thing. Look at how much power liberals and lefties are happy to give the government? Do they ever consider what happens when you then hand the reins over to someone like Trump?

weisses

Eric Cartman wrote: »

If he had have ge would have sank ger argument twice as quick. Its scary that they'll let people who believe in the 'jim corr of political ideologies' onto television to discuss politics

Its scary to let people like Trump and his ideology become POTUS ....

Water John

Democracy is a brittle thing and needs constant reinforcement.

Wanderer78

Water John wrote:

Democracy is a brittle thing and needs constant reinforcement.

Is America a democracy?