Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

everlast75

Working off the basis that he is not a Putin stooge, or at least has some autonomy in terms of his policies, it is clear that he believes in distributive bargaining, ie. a bargaining strategy in which one party gains only if the other party loses something.

In real estate, he could screw people over - he wins. He moves on.

With employees, he can refuse to pay, threaten them when they complain - he wins. He moves on.

However, when you are in the world stage, you have to deal with the same Countries multiple times. If he screws over say NATO, then that will affect how they will deal with him, and they will have to deal with them, again. That penny hasn't dropped yet. Look at how he treated May. He bitched about her to a newspaper, not thinking for a moment that he would have to deal with her the next day.

He cannot see a situation where both parties benefit, and that is a real problem.


Second to that, easily achieved optics is far more important to him hard worked success.

He would take the easy photo op with KJU over months or years of prep work. He doesn't care that nothing will come of it. After all, he appeals therefore to those that don't scratch below the surface and readily eat up whatever he says. I mean look! There are photos!

FreudianSlippers

Leroy42 wrote: »

It is the same, imo, on why his supporters are classed are ignorant etc. Because to many it makes no sense why any person would support this person. To accept that nearly half the country is willing to make such a choice out of 'choice' rather than ignorance etc means that we really as similar as we like to think.

I agree with all of what you're saying, including this bit... however, there are a significant amount of Trump supporters who are ignorant.

I agree that it's not possible that they all are, unless you believe half the country are ignorant idiots (I'd suggest it's closer to 25%).

Captain Obvious

I have to say I am really looking forward to Trumps response to Sasha Baron Cohen's new series. I'm hoping for a Twitter storm.

Zubeneschamali

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

however he never seemed like an absolute moron when he was younger.

When he was younger, he was just a spoiled narcissistic brat. Now he's 72 and has no attention span left, possible early stage dementia and various side effects from all his meds. Late stage neurosyphilis is a real possibility when you see how often he denies any such thing.

listermint

Captain Obvious wrote: »

I have to say I am really looking forward to Trumps response to Sasha Baron Cohen's new series. I'm hoping for a Twitter storm.

Where is it shown, netflix or ??

spacecoyote

listermint wrote: »

Where is it shown, netflix or ??

Below is the sneak peak up on YouTube. It'll be on Showtime. Its along the lines of his previous stuff, but given the way things are currently, there could be some backlash alright.

I think that he managed to trick Sarah Palin at some point during it & she's been losing her sh1t (as you'd expect)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkXeMoBPSDk

FreudianSlippers

listermint wrote: »

Where is it shown, netflix or ??

It's called "Who Is America?" - it's on tonight on Channel 4 in Ireland.

humberklog

Trump tweeted this morning- "Our relationship with Russia has NEVER been worse thanks to many years of U.S foolishness and stupidity..."
There's something really odd (even more than usual) about this tweet.
OK, he's appears to be playing down expectations on results coming from the summit- that's a pretty standard approach in business/politics when any concession can be viewed as a "win".
But in this tweet he's just gone and put the U.S in a situation where they'll go hobbling into a discussion and immediately take a seat on the bold step.

Can any defender of Trump really stand by that Tweet? He's just taken a dump on his country and gone kowtowing to Putin even before the game's begun.

everlast75

humberklog wrote: »

Trump tweeted this morning- "Our relationship with Russia has NEVER been worse thanks to many years of U.S foolishness and stupidity..."
There's something really odd (even more than usual) about this tweet.
OK, he's appears to be playing down expectations on results coming from the summit- that's a pretty standard approach in business/politics when any concession can be viewed as a "win".
But in this tweet he's just gone and put the U.S in a situation where they'll go hobbling into a discussion and immediately take a seat on the bold step.

Can any defender of Trump really stand by that Tweet? He's just taken a dump on his country and gone kowtowing to Putin even before the game's begun.

https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1018753885933010945



Maybe this presidency is the real Sacha Baron Cohen stunt?

StringerBell

Am I hearing this right?

Trump has blamed the US and criticised it for the state of US/Russian relations?

I can't wait to get home from work and see how fox and the rest of the Patriots spin and justify this. Absolutely unbelievable.

Outlaw Pete

Christy42 wrote: »

Not actually a counter to the point being made about Donald Trump.

Wasn't supposed to be a counter, just agreeing about John.

StringerBell wrote: »

His ability to get through a large amount of information and break it down easily for the general public is an often overlooked talent.

Yeah, but somehow that breakdown always seems to result in a condescending sneer. Coincidence I suppose and not at all intentional.

Deleted User wrote: »

You'll find more than that if ya keep looking.

You were right. Cheers, Buttonftw.


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1016079192604139520

everlast75

humberklog wrote: »

Trump tweeted this morning- "Our relationship with Russia has NEVER been worse thanks to many years of U.S foolishness and stupidity..."
There's something really odd (even more than usual) about this tweet.
OK, he's appears to be playing down expectations on results coming from the summit- that's a pretty standard approach in business/politics when any concession can be viewed as a "win".
But in this tweet he's just gone and put the U.S in a situation where they'll go hobbling into a discussion and immediately take a seat on the bold step.

Can any defender of Trump really stand by that Tweet? He's just taken a dump on his country and gone kowtowing to Putin even before the game's begun.

https://twitter.com/mfa_russia/status/1018803468805566464

Well, on the plus side, Russia and he are singing from the same hymn sheet.

That's good news for us all, right????

20Cent

The claim that Obama did nothing about Russian interference is absurd. Obama challanged Putin about it and setup an investigation. Trump fired the lead of the investigation and has called it a witchunt ever since.

EdgeCase

It’s about throwing as much mud as possible at the Democrats and assuming a % of it will stick as people won’t challenge it and can’t or won’t fact check.

While I find Irish defamation laws a bit harsh, you can see how having almost no ability to defend your good name or the truth in the US can have dire consequences. People just throw around lies and nonsense to damage political figures and they can’t defend themselves at all. It’s a case of he who shouts loudest owns the truth.

Quin_Dub

EdgeCase wrote: »

It’s about throwing as much mud as possible at the Democrats and assuming a % of it will stick as people won’t challenge it and can’t or won’t fact check.

While I find Irish defamation laws a bit harsh, you can see how having almost no ability to defend your good name or the truth in the US can have dire consequences. People just throw around lies and nonsense to damage political figures and they can’t defend themselves at all. It’s a case of he who shouts loudest owns the truth.

I read an interesting comment over the week-end in relation to his "Fake News" comments about his Sun interview.

The suggestion was that using the UK laws ,the journalist should sue him for defamation given that Trump was in essence accusing them of lying.

Won't happen for a variety of reasons , not least that the Sun is a Murdoch paper , but it does open an interesting argument especially given the US constitutional issues with legal action against the POTUS.

Could Trump (or indeed any sitting President) be sued or charged with an offence in another country or would some flavour of diplomatic immunity apply?

Captain Obvious

"Trump was very frustrated; he wasn't getting commitments from other leaders to spend more. Many of them said, 'Well, we have to ask our parliaments. We have a process; we can't just tell you we're going to spend more, we have a legal process.' Trump turns around to the Turkish president, Recep Erdogan, and says, 'Except for Erdogan over here. He does things the right way,' and then actually fist-bumps the Turkish president."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-fist-bumped-turkish-leader-erdogan-said-he-does-things-the-right-way/



How can a single person in the US defend him and not think they are supporting a fascist?

irishash

Press conference question:

Question to President Putin - "Why should we believe you about not interferring in 2016 election"

Trump - "I'll answer part of that - Nobody interfered because the issue
is just the Democrats crying Wah Wah Wah" (paraphrased of course)

f**king moron

listermint

Has there ever been a US president on foreign soil complaining about other political parties from his country.

I dont think we have seen such nonsense like that before.

Leroy42

Press Conference Question;

Do you hold Russia Responsible for anything?
Trump. The US has been foolish.....

This man is MAGA by blaming everything on the US?

irishash

So Trump said he raised the election interference with Putin and the new charges against russian individuals, but gave no details of how Putin responded.

Then when a question was asked about this topic, Trump went on to say that he does not believe there was interference and that it is all political.

So Trump does not believe there is an issue - despite all the evidence. So why did he ask Putin about it as he claims??

Just now he is going on about servers and the democrat hack and Hilarys emails. So he is saying it is all a conspiracy. And that it was an incredible offer from Putin to allow US investigators into Russia to question people (without mentioning all the conditions Putin said had to exist)

pixelburp

Captain Obvious wrote: »

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-fist-bumped-turkish-leader-erdogan-said-he-does-things-the-right-way/

How can a single person in the US defend him and not think they are supporting a fascist?

Pretty clear, if it wasn't already, about what kind of job Trump thought he was getting himself into; he doesn't want to lead, he wants to rule. He clearly thought 'President of the United States' was a functional monarch.

But I'll say it again, some folks will support a grasping authoritarian - as long as he's on their side.

The Backwards Man

A totalitarian, to be successful in assuming power, is all about convincing people you'll give them back what is rightfully 'theirs'.

As long as he's bringing back coal and building walls, his supporters won't care.

Manic Moran

BabyCheeses wrote: »

Manic Moran wrote: »

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-ca-trump-hats-cali-fame-carson-20151124-story.html

About 80% of the company's workforce is Latino, Kennedy estimates. He says that every worker has his or her immigration status verified.

Somehow the distinction between “legal” and “illegal”immigrant keeps getting lost. Most Trump supporters don’t care about being immigrant or not, they care about being legally immigrant.

The man called for a Muslim ban and then you pretend anyone is thick enough to think he only has a problem with illegal immigrants. You have been here long enough to know it has been discussed already.



Did you just forget or think that nobody will notice as you parrot the party line?

Oh, i notice people utterly incapable of identifying nuance. Whatever about Trump’s personal opinion on legal immigration, which rarely seems to be a topic of conversation anyway being lost in the arguments over the southern border or physical security, most conservative voters tend to be “law and order” types. People such as I am currently surrounded by here in Fort Carson, CO. It can be a bit simplistic, but it’s at least easy to understand. Don’t want to get shot by police? Step 1, follow the law. Heck, even Chris Rock figured that much out. Instead we have mass protests in Chicago this week over a black man shot. Nobody waited for the bodycam video which shows the guy fighting with cops and then drawing a sidearm. General level of sympathy from conservative voters over his fate... zero. But to protestors, it is partially irrelevant, there is still the larger question of race relations regardless of this current incident. Similarly, general level of sympathy from conservative voters over people being deported despite being in the country productively for a year.. zero. People are ascribing larger social perspectives to, what to a conservative, is a fairly black and white issue. Follow the laws and the processes, and you will be considered a good member of society. Demonstrate an unwillingness to do so from the get-go, you are unwelcome.

Consider it this way. Conservatives tend to lean toward deontology, progressives are more for utilitarianism. Certainly there are discussions to be had on just how much immigration the country needs, and some will say more and some will say less. But with the exception of the vocal minority who tend to get into the news by being extreme such as the attack on that 92-year old Mexican chap, whatever the numbers are which will be decided upon by the government, the question is more “are you here legally” than “where are you from”

Leroy42

And this is the bit that I really don't understand. I get the bit about hating HC, I get the bit about MAGA, I get the bit about the SCOTUS etc. Don't agree with it, but I understand where they are coming from (or think I do).

But how can you line all that up with a POTUS that is rolling over for Russia? That is so quick to put down the very country he is supposed to love and serve?

irishash

pixelburp wrote: »

Pretty clear, if it wasn't already, about what kind of job Trump thought he was getting himself into; he doesn't want to lead, he wants to rule. He clearly thought 'President of the United States' was a functional monarch.

But I'll say it again, some folks will support a grasping authoritarian - as long as he's on their side.

This is a really interesting part from that report:

"Apparently the Dutch prime minister, Mark Rutte, was the last person to intervene at the summit," said Bremmer. "Before Trump had his press conference he said [to the president], 'Look, you're really frustrated. Why don't you just take a victory lap? Say that the allies have been spending $32 billion more since you became president. Take credit for it.' That's the last thing Trump heard before he left the meeting."

World leaders treat Trump like he is the spoiled rich kid sulking because nobody is paying attention to him or doing what he wants to do. So they appease him by letting him take credit for other peoples work. Staggering.......simply staggering. It is now evident other leaders are just waiting for him to be gone so they can deal with somebody rational again.

Leroy42

Manic Moran wrote: »

Oh, i notice people utterly incapable of identifying nuance. Whatever about Trump’s personal opinion on legal immigration, which rarely seems to be a topic of conversation anyway being lost in the arguments over the southern border or physical security, most conservative voters tend to be “law and order” types. People such as I am currently surrounded by here in Fort Carson, CO. It can be a bit simplistic, but it’s at least easy to understand. Don’t want to get shot by police? Step 1, follow the law. Heck, even Chris Rock figured that much out. Instead we have mass protests in Chicago this week over a black man shot. Nobody waited for the bodycam video which shows the guy fighting with cops and then drawing a sidearm. General level of sympathy from conservative voters over his fate... zero. But to protestors, it is partially irrelevant, there is still the larger question of race relations regardless of this current incident. Similarly, general level of sympathy from conservative voters over people being deported despite being in the country productively for a year.. zero. People are ascribing larger social perspectives to, what to a conservative, is a fairly black and white issue. Follow the laws and the processes, and you will be considered a good member of society. Demonstrate an unwillingness to do so from the get-go, you are unwelcome.

Consider it this way. Conservatives tend to lean toward deontology, progressives are more for utilitarianism. Certainly there are discussions to be had on just how much immigration the country needs, and some will say more and some will say less. But with the exception of the vocal minority who tend to get into the news by being extreme such as the attack on that 92-year old Mexican chap, whatever the numbers are which will be decided upon by the government, the question is more “are you here legally” than “where are you from”

Hold on Manic, if they are so concerned and Law and Order surely they should be out protesting the numerous unlawful deaths carried out by the police? What about the miscarriages due to cover ups and bad policing?

Come on, they are in favour of law and order when they are in their favour. They care nothing about the failures of law and order when it effects the black community or other minorities.

Of course that is even before we get to the fact that Trump recently gave pardons to two domestic terrorists, and a few months ago gave a pardon to Joe Arpaio. Guess the law and order wasn't such a driving principle in those cases.

Laois_Man

Former CIA Director John Brennan with a very strong tweet against Trump

Donald Trump’s press conference performance in Helsinki rises to & exceeds the threshold of “high crimes & misdemeanors.” It was nothing short of treasonous. Not only were Trump’s comments imbecilic, he is wholly in the pocket of Putin. Republican Patriots: Where are you???

https://twitter.com/JohnBrennan/status/1018885971104985093

EdgeCase

pixelburp wrote: »

Pretty clear, if it wasn't already, about what kind of job Trump thought he was getting himself into; he doesn't want to lead, he wants to rule. He clearly thought 'President of the United States' was a functional monarch.

But I'll say it again, some folks will support a grasping authoritarian - as long as he's on their side.

So far he hasn’t been proven wrong by the system. The GOP have seemingly adopted the role of courtiers instead of legislators and the Supreme Court is being stacked.

If there isn’t a big swing in November you’ve a drift towards totalitarianism in the US

20Cent

You can bet Putin will record his private conversation with Trump for some more kompomat.

Water John

Yes I was thinking this was good old fashioned treason.