Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

Leroy42

Can you imagine if HC or Obama had carried on like this? It beggars belief that a once proud party of the GOP, and its supporters have turned their backs so completely on the US.

I mean Trump has blamed Obama for the hacking, yet when face to face with Putin comes out with nothing? Where is the commitment from Putin to hand over the 12 for their hearings?

Water John

More is the question, if a Bush, Reagan or Nixon had done this, how would the GOP of its time react?

opinionated3

Water John wrote: »

More is the question, if a Bush, Reagan or Nixon had done this, how would the GOP of its time react?

It's highly debatable if either of the Bush's or Reagan would even turn up to this summit bearing in mind some of the allegations against Putin. I think it's clear that Putin has something on trump.... He's clearly in his pocket somehow

StringerBell

As if there was any further evidence needed that has to be the most disgraceful performance I have ever seen from an American president toward a Russian.

Siding with Russia against the US.

I'm almost shocked, it was absolutely disgraceful. Embarrassing surely to his country.

Looking forward to the reaction to this.

Laois_Man

opinionated3 wrote: »

I think it's clear that Putin has something on trump.... He's clearly in his pocket somehow

I think we all know what that is - nervous laughter and long pause before answering the question on whether Russia has any dodgy material on any member of the Trump family!

20Cent

Fox news host calling Trumps performance disgusting.



https://twitter.com/axios/status/1018893795696545792?s=19

Leroy42

When he was asked to call out Putin on the election hacking and to get him to commit to not doing it again Trump went off on a rambling 'answer' asking where the DNC server was, some Pakistan guy, and that Putin has said it wasn't so thats fine.

Seems the FBI etc have got this all wrong.

Anderson called the Press conference 'perhaps the most disgraceful performances by and American President in front of a Russia leader that I have ever seen'. Surem, CNN is biased, but that is a really strong statement and I doubt said lightly.

StringerBell

Anderson does try to be as balanced as you can be but what else would you call that performance?

It was disgraceful and it will be even more disgraceful to hear his supporters and puppets justify this while pretending their guy is still all about MAGA and being the tough guy who will rattle cages.

How can he not be in dereliction of duty? How can the likes of Bolton Kelly etc justify staying involved with this individual.

everlast75

I suspect the usual defenders here will be very quiet in the wake of this.

The reality is there is probable cause that 12 agents of a foreign power interfered in the US election.

We are aware Donny Jr et al attended a meeting in trump tower where the intent was to "get dirt on Hillary".

This is collusion, pure and simple. Conspiracy is very very probable, from the stuff we do now and that's not mentioning what we don't know.

Trump is on TV inviting a foreign power to affect an election. That's an impeachable offence on its own.

We know Rudy was aware of the email release mere days beforehand. He said so on Fox.

There is so much evidence in plain sight.

And that's without his behaviour at the summit, at NATO etc.

opinionated3

20Cent wrote: »

Fox news host calling Trumps performance disgusting.



https://twitter.com/axios/status/1018893795696545792?s=19

I'm actually shocked that a fox host has said something AGAINST trump!!

everlast75

opinionated3 wrote: »

I'm actually shocked that a fox host has said something AGAINST trump!!

3 or 4 now have.

Shep Smith is leading the way

Laois_Man

StringerBell wrote: »

Anderson does try to be as balanced as you can be

That's going a bit far now!

FrostyJack

StringerBell wrote: »

How can he not be in dereliction of duty? How can the likes of Bolton Kelly etc justify staying involved with this individual.

Just did a quick visit to fox news Facebook feed, and it is as I thought. Anyone critiquing Trump should pack their bags and find another country, the meddling happened under Obama's watch and he did nothing and Trump is laying out Putin in front of the World and Putin is the one who looks uncomfortable. This is as I suspected it would be. I know most moderate Republican's don't agree with a lot of Trump says but his base are ALL like this. Not one piece of critical thinking between them all. Can't wait for our friend to come on here when he gets his talking points sent out, to copy and paste us a great spin on this. Possibly will be "A wonderful meeting took place today, with 2 powerful leaders. Mutual respect was shown and the World is a safer place now. The leftist tried to scuttle the summit with negative questions just like Crooked Hillary failed to do in the 2016 выборы, I mean election".

everlast75

Laois_Man wrote: »

That's going a bit far now!

Far too balanced in my opinion.

There's no "may be" - it was "the" most disgraceful performance.

Anderson is too kind

mcmoustache

Whatever about the Russia conspiracy, whatever about his fitness for office, today Trump just tanked America's reputation in front of the entire world.

That press conference won't just be repeated over and over again to a US audience - it will be shown all over the world and it won't be respun by Hannity.

Here's the BBC, for example:

Captain Obvious

Manic Moran wrote: »

Oh, i notice people utterly incapable of identifying nuance. Whatever about Trump’s personal opinion on legal immigration, which rarely seems to be a topic of conversation anyway being lost in the arguments over the southern border or physical security, most conservative voters tend to be “law and order” types. People such as I am currently surrounded by here in Fort Carson, CO. It can be a bit simplistic, but it’s at least easy to understand. Don’t want to get shot by police? Step 1, follow the law. Heck, even Chris Rock figured that much out. Instead we have mass protests in Chicago this week over a black man shot. Nobody waited for the bodycam video which shows the guy fighting with cops and then drawing a sidearm. General level of sympathy from conservative voters over his fate... zero. But to protestors, it is partially irrelevant, there is still the larger question of race relations regardless of this current incident. Similarly, general level of sympathy from conservative voters over people being deported despite being in the country productively for a year.. zero. People are ascribing larger social perspectives to, what to a conservative, is a fairly black and white issue. Follow the laws and the processes, and you will be considered a good member of society. Demonstrate an unwillingness to do so from the get-go, you are unwelcome.

Consider it this way. Conservatives tend to lean toward deontology, progressives are more for utilitarianism. Certainly there are discussions to be had on just how much immigration the country needs, and some will say more and some will say less. But with the exception of the vocal minority who tend to get into the news by being extreme such as the attack on that 92-year old Mexican chap, whatever the numbers are which will be decided upon by the government, the question is more “are you here legally” than “where are you from”

Honestly, that's all nonsense. None of it even matters anymore when you look at the damage Trump has done to the country and his performance with Putin. He is spitting on everything the country is supposed to stand for. He is destroying it's institutions and making a mockery of the constitution. There's no way you can call yourself a patriot or loyal to the constitution if you support Trump and everything else simply doesn't matter after that.

20Cent wrote: »

Fox news host calling Trumps performance disgusting.



https://twitter.com/axios/status/1018893795696545792?s=19

Refreshing

opinionated3

everlast75 wrote: »

3 or 4 now have.

Shep Smith is leading the way

I'm glad to see it. Hannity especially was doing my head in with his constant cheerleading.

Itssoeasy

I didn't see the press conference but I was trying to follow along with it on twitter. Good Christ some of the quotes from trump are utterly baffling and nuts.

How can he not side with his own IC against Russia ? I mean trump has just helped the democrats in the mid term elections big time.

mcmoustache

FrostyJack wrote: »

Can't wait for our friend to come on here when he gets his talking points sent out, to copy and paste us a great spin on this. Possibly will be "A wonderful meeting took place today, with 2 powerful leaders. Mutual respect was shown and the World is a safer place now. The leftist tried to scuttle the summit with negative questions just like Crooked Hillary failed to do in the 2016 выборы, I mean election".

Don't forget the conspiracy mongers who'll be there to tell us more about Strzok, the pakistani and the Dem server. I mention these because Trump raised these issues himself at the press conference.

I've already seen a serial rereg post the "Why didn't they hand over the server" nonsense as if nobody here had ever heard of disk imaging.

I might pop over the the_Donald to get a feel for the talking points coming down the pipeline.

smurgen

What's gonna be funny is how the corwardly trump supporters flip and deny defending him when this whole charade collapses.

mcmoustache

mcmoustache wrote: »

I might pop over the the_Donald to get a feel for the talking points coming down the pipeline.

Gah! What a shíthole. Anyway, the next conspiracy theory will be Bill Browder funnelling 400 million to Hillary Clinton. George Soros was mentioned too.

It's lifted straight from one of Putin's answers earlier.

Podge_irl

Leroy42 wrote: »

It is easier for people to believe that he is an idiot because otherwise we have to face the reality that we have such a dangerous person in such a powerful position and they did it deliberately.

Is it not possible to believe he is a dangerous idiot?

He is a not phenomenally bright individual who thinks he is very smart and is incredibly open to being manipulated by those who play the game better.

pixelburp

And yet, with the notable silence from those posessing the power to bring this wannabe king to task, we're just watching a slow car crash, and maybe a 10 year slide into autocracy, irrelevance or some combination thereof

mcmoustache

smurgen wrote: »

What's gonna be funny is how the corwardly trump supporters flip and deny defending him when this whole charade collapses.

On here, they'll just close their accounts and create new ones. I see it here fairly often and one of those reregs is very transparent.

On platforms such as twitter, I'd imagine a lot of people are going to be purging their accounts without knowing that tweets are archived on third party services.

I don't know how facebook works so I can't comment.

Itssoeasy

I'm reading more of the quotes from both trump and putin, and how can any members of the GOP stand by some of it in good conscience ? Imagine FDR saying he asked the Japanese leader about pearl harbour and the Japanese denied it was them and he said "I've confidence in both parties" he'd have been impeached for not defending the USA position.

I doubt any US president has ever been this bad. I mean yes they changed the name but Russia is still an enemy of the USA and its president didn't defend the USA it seems on world wide tv.

opinionated3

Is anyone else here genuinely concerned for the future? I used to always consider the US as a friend to us and Europe but my God, this man is destroying my belief system one press conference at a time. Crimea might only be the start of Putin's power game ( not to mention Syria). 2020 is only around the corner and trump supporters are already quoting #trump2020 on social media. I think it's scary what's potentially coming down the road.

relax carry on

Is this a sign that Trump might be in some sort of trouble finally?


Paul Ryan: 'Russia is not our ally'
House speaker Paul Ryan, a Republican, said in a statement that the US must be “focused on holding Russia accountable".

Ryan said:

There is no question that Russia interfered in our election and continues attempts to undermine democracy here and around the world. That is not just the finding of the American intelligence community but also the House Committee on Intelligence. The president must appreciate that Russia is not our ally. There is no moral equivalence between the United States and Russia, which remains hostile to our most basic values and ideals. The United States must be focused on holding Russia accountable and putting an end to its vile attacks on democracy.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2018/jul/16/trump-putin-summit-helsinki-russia-live

Itssoeasy

opinionated3 wrote: »

Is anyone else here genuinely concerned for the future? I used to always consider the US as a friend to us and Europe but my God, this man is destroying my belief system one press conference at a time. Crimea might only be the start of Putin's power game ( not to mention Syria). 2020 is only around the corner and trump supporters are already quoting #trump2020 on social media. I think it's scary what's potentially coming down the road.

Not concerned for the future but concerned in the present how beholden a US president seems to be to a Russian leader and just how bad he is on even the most basic duties of being the president. He's getting none of the right. Being strong against the Russian leader for a republican president should be an open goal. It's not a hard position to take yet trump did a Ronnie Rosenthal on it.

RIGOLO

mcmoustache wrote: »

smurgen wrote: »

What's gonna be funny is how the corwardly trump supporters flip and deny defending him when this whole charade collapses.

On here, they'll just close their accounts and create new ones. I see it here fairly often and one of those reregs is very transparent.

On platforms such as twitter, I'd imagine a lot of people are going to be purging their accounts without knowing that tweets are archived on third party services.

I don't know how facebook works so I can't comment.

Neither did the Democrat party in 2015-2016, or at least they didnt know how to use it to win an election. 

Couple of good docs from AlJazeera on how the Trump Campaign squeezed every vote and every dollar out of their digital campaign and their social media manipulation. 
Facebook admit they offered both campaigns the same level of support.
The Trump Campaign are quite open about taking up this offer and asking FACEBOOK for every tweak, knob, button, hidden option they could use to target voters. 
By all accounts the HRC campaign did not take FB up on the offer to the same degree. 
And with a spend of close on 90million you can assume the Trump Campaign had a whole lot of help from FB, dedicated FB employees to assist them. One can safely assume twitter and google and the other platforms were equally involved. 
Although the TRump administration spent the bulk of thier money on FB

This is two part, scroll down on the link for part 1.

A two-part investigation into the threats to democracy posed by fake news and propaganda on social media

One aspect which shows how clever the Trump campaign was is how even thought both campaigns spent similar amounts of money , the Trump campaign spent their dollars wiser, they targeted the swing states (Michigan,Pen, Wisconsin) whist hilary targetted the more expensive East coast and west coast media markets . Consequently for every dollar spent Trump campaign could target more voters than Hilary as FB had different rates for different states.

Aljazeera .. good news stations , has its bias as all do but not to the same extent os the MSM, it reminds me of news reporting before it became a toxic cesspool...
They have another good doc too on Russian Trolls etc.. worth a watch ...

Facebook, Russian trolls and the new era of information warfare
I think people are asking the wrong question.. they should be asking
Why/when did we hand over the democratic process (as well as many other aspects of society) to social media internet giants in Silicon valley ? 
Id recommend watching both videos in full, apologies if they have been posted before and discussed. 

Im off to read some books, one is about the Russian-American Trading Company , formed in 1799 , near 220 years , it discusses the impact of this on the US.. imagine Russian involvement in US affairs ... 220 years ago.. whod have thunk it.. I thought the Russia-US meddling in each others affairs only started in 2015, and it never happened before.  :angel:

pixelburp

relax carry on wrote: »

Is this a sign that Trump might be in some sort of trouble finally?


Paul Ryan: 'Russia is not our ally'
House speaker Paul Ryan, a Republican, said in a statement that the US must be “focused on holding Russia accountable".

Ryan said:

There is no question that Russia interfered in our election and continues attempts to undermine democracy here and around the world. That is not just the finding of the American intelligence community but also the House Committee on Intelligence. The president must appreciate that Russia is not our ally. There is no moral equivalence between the United States and Russia, which remains hostile to our most basic values and ideals. The United States must be focused on holding Russia accountable and putting an end to its vile attacks on democracy.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2018/jul/16/trump-putin-summit-helsinki-russia-live

Not a chance; Republicans have continuously spoken out of both sides of their mouths, making 'polite' rebukes towards Trumps behaviour but never actually stepping up with proper action. He may be retiring so MAYBE Ryan will suddenly discover a backbone, but I've seen these kind of half-hearted, weaselly words before. It has always amounted to nothing.