Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

Leroy42

relax carry on wrote: »

Is this a sign that Trump might be in some sort of trouble finally?


Paul Ryan: 'Russia is not our ally'
House speaker Paul Ryan, a Republican, said in a statement that the US must be “focused on holding Russia accountable".

Ryan said:

There is no question that Russia interfered in our election and continues attempts to undermine democracy here and around the world. That is not just the finding of the American intelligence community but also the House Committee on Intelligence. The president must appreciate that Russia is not our ally. There is no moral equivalence between the United States and Russia, which remains hostile to our most basic values and ideals. The United States must be focused on holding Russia accountable and putting an end to its vile attacks on democracy.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2018/jul/16/trump-putin-summit-helsinki-russia-live

Not even close. That is a statement to try to paint the GOP as worried about Russia, and follows the exact same path as every other statement from the GOP and the likes of Ryan since Trump became POTUS.

A version of "we love America, American values, American workers etc. But what does it actually say about what Trump did today?

Trump today said, in front of the whole world, that he believed Putin over his own intelligence agencies. And that is what he said in public. We have no idea what he actually said in private but you can bet it was far worse than that.

He also did nothing about Crimea, Syria, the recent murders in the UK, which May said he agreed to discuss.

If that is the best that Ryan can muster after that then you might as well forget about the GOP having any involvement in protecting the US

Captain Obvious

RIGOLO wrote: »

Im off to read some books, one is about the Russian-American Trading Company , formed in 1799 , near 220 years , it discusses the impact of this on the US.. imagine Russian involvement in US affairs ... 220 years ago.. whod have thunk it.. I thought the Russia-US meddling in each others affairs only started in 2015, and it never happened before. :angel:

Not surprising you have to go back 220 years to find justification for the apathy towards Russia involvement.

relax carry on

Leroy42 wrote: »

Not even close. That is a statement to try to paint the GOP as worried about Russia, and follows the exact same path as every other statement from the GOP and the likes of Ryan since Trump became POTUS.

A version of "we love America, American values, American workers etc. But what does it actually say about what Trump did today?

Trump today said, in front of the whole world, that he believed Putin over his own intelligence agencies. And that is what he said in public. We have no idea what he actually said in private but you can bet it was far worse than that.

He also did nothing about Crimea, Syria, the recent murders in the UK, which May said he agreed to discuss.

If that is the best that Ryan can muster after that then you might as well forget about the GOP having any involvement in protecting the US

So what will it take? Is there anything which will make Trumpists and his republican supporters finally see him for what he is?

Trigger

RIGOLO wrote: »

Neither did the Democrat party in 2015-2016, or at least they didnt know how to use it to win an election. 

Couple of good docs from AlJazeera on how the Trump Campaign squeezed every vote and every dollar out of their digital campaign and their social media manipulation. 
Facebook admit they offered both campaigns the same level of support.
The Trump Campaign are quite open about taking up this offer and asking FACEBOOK for every tweak, knob, button, hidden option they could use to target voters. 
By all accounts the HRC campaign did not take FB up on the offer to the same degree. 
And with a spend of close on 90million you can assume the Trump Campaign had a whole lot of help from FB, dedicated FB employees to assist them. One can safely assume twitter and google and the other platforms were equally involved. 
Although the TRump administration spent the bulk of thier money on FB

This is two part, scroll down on the link for part 1.

A two-part investigation into the threats to democracy posed by fake news and propaganda on social media

One aspect which shows how clever the Trump campaign was is how even thought both campaigns spent similar amounts of money , the Trump campaign spent their dollars wiser, they targeted the swing states (Michigan,Pen, Wisconsin) whist hilary targetted the more expensive East coast and west coast media markets . Consequently for every dollar spent Trump campaign could target more voters than Hilary as FB had different rates for different states.

Aljazeera .. good news stations , has its bias as all do but not to the same extent os the MSM, it reminds me of news reporting before it became a toxic cesspool...
They have another good doc too on Russian Trolls etc.. worth a watch ...

Facebook, Russian trolls and the new era of information warfare
I think people are asking the wrong question.. they should be asking
Why/when did we hand over the democratic process (as well as many other aspects of society) to social media internet giants in Silicon valley ? 
Id recommend watching both videos in full, apologies if they have been posted before and discussed. 

Im off to read some books, one is about the Russian-American Trading Company , formed in 1799 , near 220 years , it discusses the impact of this on the US.. imagine Russian involvement in US affairs ... 220 years ago.. whod have thunk it.. I thought the Russia-US meddling in each others affairs only started in 2015, and it never happened before.  :angel:

Deflect deflect deflect...

Do you have any opinion on the press consference today?

Do you think Trump was right to blame the US and side with Russia?

Do you believe that this is a “great success” for Trump and MAGA?

Leroy42

Wow Rigolo, even by your standards that is quite something.

On the day that Trump takes the side of Putin over his own security forces, you want to discuss campaign finance and FB utilizaation?

It shows how utterly disastrous the press conference was. It should have been No 1 news agenda for you, the most fantastic summit ever, surpassing even the NK one. Trump MAGA, moving on from his take down of NATO, showing May how to deal with Brexit. Trump delivers yet again.

But instead you have nothing to say only to talk about FB.

James Brown

Sad day for the United States. To see capitalism blatantly supersede democracy like that. Trump turning against the U.S. security services, allies and siding with a dictator for personal gain. Disgraceful. I can't imagine what the military might be thinking right now, never mind the public.

mcmoustache

Maria Butina has just been arrested. Seriously, google her. She's the one who's been hanging around the NRA and other republicans. This is big. Where the hell is demfad when you need him. I'll add more once I've read the affidavit (that's not a phrase I ever thought I'd utter).

Edit: adding more..

She's Torshin's assistant.

Here's video of Trump telling her "I believe I would get along very nicely with Putin... I don't think you'd need the sanctions."

https://twitter.com/RVAwonk/status/954024261089447936

This affidavit is juicy. Here's a link.

20Cent

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Sad day for the United States. To see capitalism blatantly supersede democracy like that. Trump turning against the U.S. security services, allies and siding with a dictator for personal gain. Disgraceful. I can't imagine what the military might be thinking right now, never mind the public.

Problem with having your democracy for sale someone will buy it. This is the first time it has been a foreign actor.

BabyCheeses

RIGOLO wrote: »

Neither did the Democrat party in 2015-2016, or at least they didnt know how to use it to win an election.

Couple of good docs from AlJazeera on how the Trump Campaign squeezed every vote and every dollar out of their digital campaign and their social media manipulation.
Facebook admit they offered both campaigns the same level of support.
The Trump Campaign are quite open about taking up this offer and asking FACEBOOK for every tweak, knob, button, hidden option they could use to target voters.
By all accounts the HRC campaign did not take FB up on the offer to the same degree.
And with a spend of close on 90million you can assume the Trump Campaign had a whole lot of help from FB, dedicated FB employees to assist them. One can safely assume twitter and google and the other platforms were equally involved.
Although the TRump administration spent the bulk of thier money on FB

This is two part, scroll down on the link for part 1.

A two-part investigation into the threats to democracy posed by fake news and propaganda on social media

One aspect which shows how clever the Trump campaign was is how even thought both campaigns spent similar amounts of money , the Trump campaign spent their dollars wiser, they targeted the swing states (Michigan,Pen, Wisconsin) whist hilary targetted the more expensive East coast and west coast media markets . Consequently for every dollar spent Trump campaign could target more voters than Hilary as FB had different rates for different states.

Aljazeera .. good news stations , has its bias as all do but not to the same extent os the MSM, it reminds me of news reporting before it became a toxic cesspool...
They have another good doc too on Russian Trolls etc.. worth a watch ...

Facebook, Russian trolls and the new era of information warfare
I think people are asking the wrong question.. they should be asking
Why/when did we hand over the democratic process (as well as many other aspects of society) to social media internet giants in Silicon valley ?
Id recommend watching both videos in full, apologies if they have been posted before and discussed.

Im off to read some books, one is about the Russian-American Trading Company , formed in 1799 , near 220 years , it discusses the impact of this on the US.. imagine Russian involvement in US affairs ... 220 years ago.. whod have thunk it.. I thought the Russia-US meddling in each others affairs only started in 2015, and it never happened before. :angel:

It is very telling when even you aren't trying to tell us about the great meeting going on today.

Beechwoodspark

A lot of trump’s racist supporters love putin. They want ever closer ties to him. The alt right etc.

mcmoustache

This is starting to get very collusiony:

U.S. Person 1 is a United States citizen and an American political operative. BUTINA established contact with U.S. Person 1 in Moscow in or around 2013. U.S. Person 1 worked with BUTINA to jointly arrange introductions to U.S. persons having influence in American politics, including an organization promoting gun rights (hereinafter "GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATION"), for the purpose of advancing the agenda of the Russian Federation.

I wonder which gun rights organisation that they might be referring to?

On October 4, 2016, U.S. Person 1 sent an email to an acquaintance. The email covered a number of topics. Within the email, U.S. Person 1 stated, "Unrelated to specific presidential campaigns, I've been involved in secruing a VERY private line of communication between the Kremlin and key POLITICAL PARTY 1 leaders through, of all conduits, the [GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATION]."

Any guesses for political party 1?

Here's Butina speaking to a Russian official:

BUTINA: By your recommendation, I am setting up the groundwork here but I am really in need of mentoring. Or the energy might to towards the wrong direction. Yesterday's dinner showed that American society is broken in relation to Russia. This is now the dividing line of opinions, the crucial one in the election race. [POLITICAL PARTY 1] are for us, [another major U.S. political party] - against - 50/50. Our move here is very important.

mcmoustache

BabyCheeses wrote: »

It is very telling when even you aren't trying to tell us about the great meeting going on today.

Still working on the spin. As I said earlier, all the_donald got from it was the 400 million to Clinton from Browder.

PropJoe10

Its a very dangerous situation. What Trump did today should be seen as treasonous, but watch the Repugnants once again turn a blind eye to it. The USA is heading down a very dangerous path at the moment.

Beechwoodspark

I presume the trump translator will be debriefed by national security to find out exactly what was said between him and putin.

Indeed, Possibly the conversation was recorded surreptitiously without don the con’s knowledge.

Beechwoodspark

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Its a very dangerous situation. What Trump did today should be seen as treasonous, but watch the Repugnants once again turn a blind eye to it. The USA is heading down a very dangerous path at the moment.

The way it is going, don the con might have a unforeseen heart attack in the middle of the night if he’s not careful.

PropJoe10

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

The way it is going, don the con might have a unforeseen heart attack in the middle of the night if he’s not careful.

Look, worse things could happen. At this stage, he should be removed from office for being unable to discharge his duties. Outrageous stuff from him today, even by his standards.

aloyisious

US Director of National Intelligence has issued a personal statement that it is abundantly clear that Russia interfered with the US elections, so will Don fire him when he get's home?

How much longer will the US republicans play along with Don, given that he find's it acceptable for Russia to make an "incredible" offer to have it's people assisting on the US team investigating the case being built against Russia? I'm thinking this last is another of Don's "put it to the people" ploys, floating a trial balloon to see what the reaction is and shrug his shoulders if it's shot down in his usual "it was just an idea, nothing to do with me" way.

Thargor

Wow he's openly being accused of treason across the US media now, this is blowing up...

That press conference went beyond the "Oh he's an alpha male, he likes other strong leaders" rhetoric, that was a bizarre display of boot-licking, Putin has to have something on him, I wonder if we'll ever get the full story...

mcmoustache

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I presume the trump translator will be debriefed by national security to find out exactly what was said between him and putin.

Indeed, Possibly the conversation was recorded surreptitiously without don the con’s knowledge.

It's almost certain that the translator will be debriefed. Regarding a secret recording, I would say that it's likely and it would definitely be without Don's knowledge. Such venues get sweeped beforehand but it must be possible to manufacture a simple device that records sound in some way that doesn't emit anything. The Finns have a rare recording of Hitler using his speaking voice.

mcmoustache

Thargor wrote: »

Wow he's openly being accused of treason across the US media now, this is blowing up...

That press conference went beyond the "Oh he's an alpha male, he likes other strong leaders" rhetoric, that was a bizarre display of boot-licking, Putin has to have something on him, I wonder if we'll ever get the full story...

Well they arrested the link between the NRA and the Russian Federation on Friday and that information was released just after the press conference. I'm not sure what's going on right now but something's fúcky and I don't see it going well for Trump.


If you remember Friday's indictment, the FBI has access to a mind-bogglingly large amount of information. Reporters have dug up an incredible amount and a lot has happened in plain sight. Most of it will come out.

Quin_Dub

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Its a very dangerous situation. What Trump did today should be seen as treasonous, but watch the Repugnants once again turn a blind eye to it. The USA is heading down a very dangerous path at the moment.

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I presume the trump translator will be debriefed by national security to find out exactly what was said between him and putin.

Indeed, Possibly the conversation was recorded surreptitiously without don the con’s knowledge.

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

The way it is going, don the con might have a unforeseen heart attack in the middle of the night if he’s not careful.

##Mod Note##

Use proper names for people and parties please.

Thanks

Beechwoodspark

Did anyone notice when Trump was praising Russia for the World Cup, really ott stuff trying to ingratiate himself, Putin barely even acknowledged it. He definitely has Trump where he wants him. I’m convinced Trump is compromised.

Leroy42

Seems even Trump knows he messed up.

Sending out tweets declaring hes willing to risk politics for peace! And how he totally believes the security forces.

What should have been his crowning glory, when he showed the world he has the measure of Putin, that US was sick of being taken advantage of.

BTW, I don't for a second think that its Trump preparing those tweets. Its clearly PR.

mcmoustache

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Did anyone notice when Trump was praising Russia for the World Cup, really ott stuff trying to ingratiate himself, Putin barely even acknowledged it. He definitely has Trump where he wants him. I’m convinced Trump is compromised.

Ask yourself, how would a compromised President behave in regards to Russia's geopolitical interests and it's leader?

Franz Von Peppercorn

mcmoustache wrote: »

Ask yourself, how would a compromised President behave in regards to Russia's geopolitical interests and it's leader?

Not a bit like trump has been acting. It would all be under the cover.

Captain Obvious

I'm not entirely convinced he is compromised. i think it's very possible he simply thinks he is smarter than everyone.

Franz Von Peppercorn

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Its a very dangerous situation. What Trump did today should be seen as treasonous, but watch the Repugnants once again turn a blind eye to it. The USA is heading down a very dangerous path at the moment.

Why does this sound like a right wing radio broadcast from 1950 if a president met a soviet leader?

Thepoet85

Surely Putin has something on Trump. How can the man who has something derogatory to day on almost all his opponents be such a doormat to his country's biggest threat.

Beechwoodspark

Captain Obvious wrote: »

I'm not entirely convinced he is compromised. i think it's very possible he simply thinks he is smarter than everyone.

He does think he is extremely smart. To the point of blind arrogance. But also he is doing Putin’s bidding.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

If he is 'compromised' he is behaving the opposite of someone who is. People are getting way too hysterical about him. He's smart enough to con half of middle America into voting for him, he is a good 'performer', and is probably quite good at selling real estate, but he's not nearly as clever as he thinks he is.

What he said today was dumb, but it wasn't treasonous at all. People are losing their minds about him at this stage.

The problems stem from the two party system, and how American politics is funded and won by money more than integrity. It's so rotten that you will only ever get 'bad' people at the top of it.