Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

demfad

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Maybe that's the whole idea, obfuscation. All this nonsense he comes out with clearly distracts from what is really going on. It is certainly working in the days of social media, where people are more interested in a vile tweet than issues which affect us all in one way or another. Trump may or may not know what he is doing, but his team are more than happy that his actions keep the media busy and away from them.

He knows what he is doing. To distract from true scandals, he creates a scandal that divides his base from 'liberals'. Liberals take the bait and he reinforces his base while successfully deflecting.

jimmycrackcorm

pixelburp wrote:

There's a certain twisted logic about the whole "He says what people secretly think..." argument: after all, it's completely and utterly impossible to prove what people en masse privately think to themselves (at the moment!), so technically the statement is neither true nor false.

You could say though that his popularity figure represents whether people agree with him or not. Will it go down after this?

Overheal

"Now, tomorrow is a special day for me. I'm going to receive my gold watch. And since this is the last speech that I will give as President, I think it's fitting to leave one final thought, an observation about a country which I love. It was stated best in a letter I received not long ago. A man wrote me and said: "You can go to live in France, but you cannot become a Frenchman. You can go to live in Germany or Turkey or Japan, but you cannot become a German, a Turk, or a Japanese. But anyone, from any corner of the Earth, can come to live in America and become an American."

Yes, the torch of Lady Liberty symbolizes our freedom and represents our heritage, the compact with our parents, our grandparents, and our ancestors. It is that lady who gives us our great and special place in the world. For it's the great life force of each generation of new Americans that guarantees that America's triumph shall continue unsurpassed into the next century and beyond. Other countries may seek to compete with us; but in one vital area, as a beacon of freedom and opportunity that draws the people of the world, no country on Earth comes close.

This, I believe, is one of the most important sources of America's greatness. We lead the world because, unique among nations, we draw our people—our strength-from every country and every corner of the world. And by doing so we continuously renew and enrich our nation. While other countries cling to the stale past, here in America we breathe life into dreams. We create the future, and the world follows us into tomorrow. Thanks to each wave of new arrivals to this land of opportunity, we're a nation forever young, forever bursting with energy and new ideas, and always on the cutting edge, always leading the world to the next frontier. This quality is vital to our future as a nation. If we ever closed the door to new Americans, our leadership in the world would soon be lost."

- Ronald Reagan

Related: 'Trump likens himself to Reagan as a truly conservative candidate'
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jan/24/donald-trump-likens-himself-ronald-reagan-truly-co/

Overheal

US Ambassador to Panama has resigned, citing he can no longer work for Donald Trump.

jobbridge4life

The only question left now is what will be left of America when this piece of cretinous filth is done, and indeed what will be left of the wider world? I will no longer accept calls for civility or decency towards the handmaids of Trump's horrors.

pitifulgod

Manic Moran wrote: »

People from Nordic countries are also more likely to be educated, and better able to contribute to the US than someone from Haiti. I suspect that if someone with a Master's Degree in Chemical Science of the University of Port-au-Prince applied for a visa in the US, he's be treated by INS about the same as someone with a Master's Degree in Chemical Science from University Oslo or UCD. The idea of being picky about who to let in based on their background is hardly unique to the US.

And those who are comparing the arse end of Arkansas with Haiti has apparently not been to both. There's '****hole', and then there's '****hole'.

And it is far from Presidential to be referring to anywhere as a ****hole. For the record, two of the best software engineers that I know are from South Africa and Nigeria. I work with plenty that are from places that Trump would most likely view as a ****hole. He made a ridiculously broad and offensive statement about a fair proportion of the globe. I have no doubt that racism factors into his remarks.

BabyCheeses

Ironically the people who will agree and defend Trump he most are most likely to live in ****holes themselves. Somehow I can't see Norwegians lining up to live in a Mississippi trailer park.

ancapailldorcha

He doesn't seem to have any sort of grasp of migration at all. People don't up sticks and leave their homes, friends, families, holdings, etc for nothing. They do it to secure a better life for themselves and any dependents they might have. People in Norway already have access to world class education and healthcare along with the fact that they live in one of the richest countries in the world with full access to most of Europe. I can't see the quality of life of most Norwegians improving much if at all by moving to the US. It's a weird choice of country given Ireland's close ties to the US and long history of emigration for various economic and societal factors. I feel like Donald has used up all his creativity and intelligence in running the most divisive presidential campaign I've ever seen and now nothing remains in the tank. He's done but he's still blaming Obama and Clinton rather than actually getting anything constructive done.

Tenigate

jobbridge4life wrote: »

I will no longer accept calls for civility or decency towards the handmaids of Trump's horrors.

You will no longer accept? Sounds like you were at that point already...
2 months ago
jobbridge4life
..., the defiling and debasement of the Presidency, political discourse and America in general is his greatest crime.

Ya see, you're guilty of what the media are guilty of. Pretending to be objective. I don't intend to go through your posting history, but i reckon you never particularly cared for trump or people who voted for him.

Sure, his choice of words wasn't elegant. But many of the countries he's referring to are ****holes. At least, high corruption, poor literacy, violence, poor healthcare (rampant disease)

There are parts of Ireland that are ****holes, too. It's not that offensive a term. No need for a hysterical reaction.

Calina

Tenigate wrote: »

There are parts of Ireland that are ****holes, too. It's not that offensive a term. No need for a hysterical reaction.

It is an extremely offensive term to be frank, when you are talking about countries. If you think it isn't, it's a reflection on you more than it is on the countries. The guy is supposed to be a world leader. This is neither presidential nor diplomatic and more to the point, it's probably not going to be productive either.

Trump might want more people from Norway but given a choice between the US and Norway, I'd choose Norway. The US could go a long way towards reducing people's desire to move if they engaged positively in international development and investment. They won't, and so people are going to want to leave the less attractive countries. A few million people did it from here for example.

The problem I have with the reaction to Trump's comments is this: it is not news that he thinks and acts like this. He has been doing it for quite a while. It's not news that he is not a diplomatic, professional who has an eye on the best interests of his country. He has an eye - at best - on his own best interests and the best that his country can hope for is that occasionally, his interests and his country's align. I personally don't think they even come close but fine.

In the meantime, the reaction isn't hysterical because he is monumentally disparaging about a bunch of countries. The reaction is just another example of the continuing triumph of hope over experience with Trump.

eire4

vetinari wrote: »

You have to admire Trump. He really wants to prove beyond any doubt that he's a complete racist.
He's making it very hard on his supporters to spin things at this point.

I must say when I read about the 1 Haitian-American member in the US house demanding an apology I just shook my head thinking where were you when he was calling Mexicans rapists, saying Nigerians lived in mud huts or there were "good" people among the racists at Charlottsville etc.

The words of Marin Niemoller come to mind:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.


The bold reality is the man is an out and out racist and anybody who is still all in with him is supporting racism.

Paully D

Wall Street Journal have the below:

https://twitter.com/thegarance/status/951912050959273984

eire4

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

You could say though that his popularity figure represents whether people agree with him or not. Will it go down after this?

I personally do not think it will be significantly affected. The modern Republican party has long pursued the bigoted "southern strategy" and there is no question that there is a racist/bigoted core to their support base and the party caters to that racist/bigoted core. Their voter suppression efforts are mostly directed against non whites as an example.

ThisRegard

Bit of cop on to yourself to Trump attributed to be from his own embassy. Points out the planning started pre Obama, was within original budget, old embassy was in a state and they actually had professionals working on the project who knew what they were doing

https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/951898811525451777

Odhinn

Just for some context, this is Ben Franklin, worried about the type of person coming from that well known shithole, Germany.

"Those who come hither are generally of the most ignorant Stupid Sort of their own Nation…and as few of the English understand the German Language, and so cannot address them either from the Press or Pulpit, ’tis almost impossible to remove any prejudices they once entertain…Not being used to Liberty, they know not how to make a modest use of it"
http://www.dialoginternational.com/dialog_international/2008/02/ben-franklin-on.html

spacecoyote

A member of the house has introduced a bill...

The Standardizing Testing and Accountability Before Large Elections Giving Electors Necessary Information for Unobstructed Selection Act

Or more simply put, The STABLE GENIUS Act

https://boyle.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/boyle-introduces-stable-genius-act-requiring-presidential-candidates

Fr Tod Umptious

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

He doesn't seem to have any sort of grasp of migration at all. People don't up sticks and leave their homes, friends, families, holdings, etc for nothing. They do it to secure a better life for themselves and any dependents they might have. People in Norway already have access to world class education and healthcare along with the fact that they live in one of the richest countries in the world with full access to most of Europe. I can't see the quality of life of most Norwegians improving much if at all by moving to the US. It's a weird choice of country given Ireland's close ties to the US and long history of emigration for various economic and societal factors. I feel like Donald has used up all his creativity and intelligence in running the most divisive presidential campaign I've ever seen and now nothing remains in the tank. He's done but he's still blaming Obama and Clinton rather than actually getting anything constructive done.

Regardless of the quality of life in Norway, or any other western Europe country, USA still holds an appeal as a place to live and work in that no other country does.

A cursory look at DV lottery applications and you will see that Norwegian applications are pretty much at the same level as that of other western European countries, (Irish tend to be a bit higher than the norm)

People like the idea of living in America.

Probably because we consume so much America culture in media, sports, technology etc.

devnull

Saw an interview on Sky News earlier with someone from Breitbart who said he agreed that the countries Donald Trump was talking about are ****holes and that Sadiq Khan was turning London into a ****hole too.

Went on to have a rant about mainstream media and then started asking the person who was interviewing him questions about knife crime and several other things and brought up Obama.

Honestly it was a real eye opener for me about Breitbart, completely disgusting how the far-right is going with all of this. No doubt Trump will issue early morning tweets again to distract people from this.

aloyisious

Tenigate wrote: »

You will no longer accept? Sounds like you were at that point already...
2 months ago
jobbridge4life
..., the defiling and debasement of the Presidency, political discourse and America in general is his greatest crime.

Ya see, you're guilty of what the media are guilty of. Pretending to be objective. I don't intend to go through your posting history, but i reckon you never particularly cared for trump or people who voted for him.

Sure, his choice of words wasn't elegant. But many of the countries he's referring to are ****holes. At least, high corruption, poor literacy, violence, poor healthcare (rampant disease)

There are parts of Ireland that are ****holes, too. It's not that offensive a term. No need for a hysterical reaction.

It's probably also true that there are x amount of people living in the ****holes who are not **** but Don doesn't want these good few to enter the US, because he thinks their country is a ****hole, same way he thinks that if you're Muslim and from his selected few countries, you should't enter the U.S. Given Don's stated preference for people from Nordic countries entering the US, it's no wonder that people believe Don is a racist.

dudara

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Regardless of the quality of life in Norway, or any other western Europe country, USA still holds an appeal as a place to live and work in that no other country does.

A cursory look at DV lottery applications and you will see that Norwegian applications are pretty much at the same level as that of other western European countries, (Irish tend to be a bit higher than the norm)

People like the idea of living in America.

Probably because we consume so much America culture in media, sports, technology etc.

It used to hold a lot of appeal for me, and I got a lot of opportunity to travel to the US for work with my company.

After a while, I began to see the deep inherent racism and class structures that pervade US society. On road trips through different parts of the US, I saw privilege, gated communities and golf course. I also saw towns where the church was the best-maintained building and everything else had fallen into decrepitude. I learned that it’s not advisable to come off the freeway at certain parts of some major cities. If you’re white & rich, the US is great. Otherwise....

The US lost its allure for me. There are still many positive aspects, but the Rose-tinted glasses came off.

Fr Tod Umptious

dudara wrote: »

It used to hold a lot of appeal for me, and I got a lot of opportunity to travel to the US for work with my company.

After a while, I began to see the deep inherent racism and class structures that pervade US society. On road trips through different parts of the US, I saw privilege, gated communities and golf course. I also saw towns where the church was the best-maintained building and everything else had fallen into decrepitude. I learned that it’s not advisable to come off the freeway at certain parts of some major cities. If you’re white & rich, the US is great. Otherwise....

The US lost its allure for me. There are still many positive aspects, but the Rose-tinted glasses came off.

Well the people I'm talking about (Europeans to whom the US is appealing) would likely be white and though not necessarily rich but certainly educated with the ability to make a good living, a better living than in somewhere like Norway.

Really Interested

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Well the people I'm talking about (Europeans to whom the US is appealing) would likely be white and though not necessarily rich but certainly educated with the ability to make a good living, a better living than in somewhere like Norway.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/550382/

Norwegian immigrants did so poorly in the United States that about 70 percent of them returned & stayed in Norway,” Alex Nowrasteh, an immigration-policy analyst with the Cato Institute, wrote Thursday on Twitter. “Return rates are not always a sign of failure but their low wages, despite observable characteristics, and poor 2nd generation assimilation indicate otherwise here.”

Just look at GDP per person in USA and Norway to see why you are in your claim incorrect.

Really Interested

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Regardless of the quality of life in Norway, or any other western Europe country, USA still holds an appeal as a place to live and work in that no other country does.

A cursory look at DV lottery applications and you will see that Norwegian applications are pretty much at the same level as that of other western European countries, (Irish tend to be a bit higher than the norm)

People like the idea of living in America.

Probably because we consume so much America culture in media, sports, technology etc.

Ok post the DV lottery that says Norway goes to US in same numbers as rest of Europe.

“That same year, 753,060 green-card holders became citizens. The number of Norwegians: 93. The number of Norwegians immigrants to the U.S. has steadily declined over the past five decades, according to data from the Migration Policy Institute, which studies global migration trends. In fact, there are fewer Norwegians living in the U.S. than any other major European country.”

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/550382/

If you don’t back up your claim I’m just going to think you are a liar.

Really Interested

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Well the people I'm talking about (Europeans to whom the US is appealing) would likely be white and though not necessarily rich but certainly educated with the ability to make a good living, a better living than in somewhere like Norway.

Norway has 5 million people and one of the worlds biggest pension funds you are now just talking rubbish

https://qz.com/252753/norways-gargantuan-sovereign-wealth-fund-by-the-numbers/

Norway has lowest levels of immigration to USA guess why because America is a ****ehole and the know it.

Igotadose

So, CNN went out and talked to a bunch of Trump supporters. One said, "I'm not supporting him anymore." A couple said it was regrettable but probably overblown and he needs to sound more professional. The rest were "meh, it's Trump and what we want."

This kind of resonates with the convo in the pub last night. Just a few of us sharing the craic, and when I said "President ****hole," the lads basically said, "He's no worse than Nixon, Nixon said horrible things" and "Stop following his tweets and focus on what he does."

Earlier in the week in a 'man on the street' chat, I heard a story about someones grandson who had gone to Chicago on a 3 month tourist visa to work (ahem). Tried to get a J1 but the cost ($2500? $3500?) was out of reach. And, when he got there, found that casual work was overrun with immigrants who'd work for less than he would, so isn't it grand Trump's going to do something about this. This was a native Irishperson saying this. I didn't point out, "and... do you think your grand would be able to repeat this once Trump makes it even harder to emigrate? Do you think J1, H1B, etc. survive as they are now, at the current price?"

Really, it's depressing to talk to people about this. I take a bit of solace from some of the trumplodytes that CNN interviewed no longer supporting Trump. Would love to see the 'would you vote for him again' poll run. I think little changes, he hasn't gotten major numbers of people killed and the destruction to Obamacare hasn't hit home yet.

http://edition.cnn.com/2018/01/12/politics/trump-supporters-react/index.html

everlast75

Whilst he may not have taken it too far, the latest has pushed him further down the line.
When Hook and Michael Graham start to give out you know you've gone too far...

Water John

When Norway popped up in his mind, because he had met the PM the day before, he really pulled the short straw, as he picked the worst country for him to use, as an example. Brainfart, always dangerous.

Samaris

Water John wrote: »

When Norway popped up in his mind, because he had met the PM the day before, he really pulled the short straw, as he picked the worst country for him to use, as an example. Brainfart, always dangerous.

He really did, but it was inevitable.

He's got an issue with Germany (or rather Merkal). He's currently pissy with Britain. He's not going to choose a Med country. Poland (poor!), Sweden (Muslim plague!), France (war cowards!) all have negative connotations to his followers. Russia would be a bad idea and eastern Europe has the Soviet connotations of the Cold War ( and aren't interestingly rich). I doubt he knows many other European countries in the middle, so we're getting a bit pinned to north. I doubt many Americans know much about Finland so...Norway and all its whiteness it is.

Water John

The only countries he'll end up being able to visit, are those that would suppress any protest. Lovely friends to have.

devnull

Far right group White Pendragons have now intervened at a function that Sadiq Khan has been at in London and demanded his arrest and shouted pro-Brexit and pro-Trump words. Pretty crazy really, honestly disgusts me what the UK has become.

Still in shock about that guy from Breitbart who accused Sadiq Khan of turning London into a ****hole - no doubt the intention was to mobilise the troops for something like this morning.