Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

Professor Moriarty

amandstu wrote: »

My suspicion is that is exactly what he was trying to do and that there are those in his base (and in this part of the world too) who would agree with that.

Farage had to row back from his "admiration of Putin" speech and qualify it by ringfencing the areas in which he found Putin admirable.

I am sure plenty of people would be happy to twin their part of the world with NovoRussia if they could ** (Trump probably feels this way but it is his love that cannot be spoken as there is too much pushback)

Like a child Trump pushes the boundaries and ,with the position he holds he can do a lot of pushing.

** I have no animus against Russia and accept there were badly treated after the fall of the the USSR but authoritarianism is what it is and they have been forced down a path that is inimical to free thinking democracies.

Yes we have to get along with them but not at the cost of our marbles.

Yet, in a poll conducted since The Donald's meeting with his puppeteer Putin, 71% of GOP voters approve of his dealings with Russia.

Interestingly, unsurprisingly and sadly, 68% of GOP voters do not believe the security services and believe that Russia did not interfere in the election.

prawnsambo

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Yet, in a poll conducted since The Donald's meeting with his puppeteer Putin, 71% of GOP voters approve of his dealings with Russia.

Interestingly, unsurprisingly and sadly, 68% of GOP voters do not believe the security services and believe that Russia did not interfere in the election.

It's the binary view. If Russia interfered, then the result is tainted and Donald didn't win. So it didn't happen. What they seem to be missing is that there's a nice precedent for the rest of the world to have a bite of US elections and try to iinfluence the result. China for example, who would be able to field a far larger hackiing army, would currently, prefer the Democrats in power to put a stop to the trade war that Trump has started.

Professor Moriarty

prawnsambo wrote: »

It's the binary view. If Russia interfered, then the result is tainted and Donald didn't win. So it didn't happen. What they seem to be missing is that there's a nice precedent for the rest of the world to have a bite of US elections and try to iinfluence the result. China for example, who would be able to field a far larger hackiing army, would currently, prefer the Democrats in power to put a stop to the trade war that Trump has started.

The logical progression is that future US elections will be dictated by whose hackers are the most successful. To the point where we can say that the US election is between China and Russia.

listermint

ELM327 wrote: »

I'm a Trump supporter since before he ran.
I owned 2 pickup trucks with Trump stickers on the bumper.
I wasn't ok with the mocking of a disabled person, that's Not Cool as the kids would say.

where did you get these Pick Ups and the stickers considering you are in Ireland and an Irish Citizen with nothing to do with the US. I dont even think we call them pickups here. Its just not the done thing.

This post makes no sense


hows the Tesla Model S purchase going in the UK?

Big change from a pickup bumper stickering person to a Tesla Model S.

Its getting tough to believe a single word you post at this point. You are painting a picture of being in the States. But you simply arent.

robinph

relax carry on wrote: »

And we're back on the room.

"
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
So many people at the higher ends of intelligence loved my press conference performance in Helsinki. Putin and I discussed many important subjects at our earlier meeting. We got along well which truly bothered many haters who wanted to see a boxing match. Big results will come!

10:53 AM - Jul 18, 2018
39.6K
31.9K people are talking about this"

So we are too stupid to comprehend his greatness. Well that's my day ruined.

Edit: Also "haters" for feck sake. Is he a sullen teenager? These tweets are part of the historical record. Future historians will scratch their collective heads in wonder at this insanity.

Think he's on about the intelligence community, rather than the intelligence of the people. But it's mostly just him making stuff up and claiming "unnamed sources" or "some people have said" to get away with needing to prove anything.

relax carry on

robinph wrote: »

Think he's on about the intelligence community, rather than the intelligence of the people. But it's mostly just him making stuff up and claiming "unnamed sources" or "some people have said" to get away with needing to prove anything.

But that's the thing with him, he needs someone beside him 24/7 to clarify what he means. You can never be sure what he actually means.

Higher end of intelligence = you are too stupid to comprehend my greatness?

Higher end of the intelligence community = who exactly in the US intelligence community thinks his one on one meeting with Putin was a good idea?

Edit: Also since he needs to remind us all the time how much of a "stable genius" he is, I'm leaning in the direction of we are too stupid to understand his greatness.

jooksavage

relax carry on wrote: »

But that's the thing with him, he needs someone beside him 24/7 to clarify what he means. You can never be sure what he actually means.

Higher end of intelligence = you are too stupid to comprehend my greatness?

Higher end of the intelligence community = who exactly in the US intelligence community thinks his one on one meeting with Putin was a good idea?

Edit: Also since he needs to remind us all the time how much of a "stable genius" he is, I'm leaning in the direction of we are too stupid to understand his greatness.

The Republicans have gotten to a point where it scarcely matters what he says or does - I'm surprised his grovelling to Putin elicited as much ire as it did. For the most part they're more than happy to cite him when he's pushing something on their agenda, only to give him the deaf ear when he starts raving about witch hunts and self pardons. He has zero credibility.

For now at least, among international leaders, this credibility problem appears to be localised mostly to Trump. Julia Ioffe reported that the background comings and goings of last week's NATO meeting was like a "support group": Americans scrambling to reassure the Europeans that Trump's position did not reflect US foreign policy, while Europeans were commiserating with their US counterparts for having to put up with Trump.

Quin_Dub

jooksavage wrote: »

The Republicans have gotten to a point where it scarcely matters what he says or does - I'm surprised his grovelling to Putin elicited as much ire as it did. For the most part they're more than happy to cite him when he's pushing something on their agenda, only to give him the deaf ear when he starts raving about witch hunts and self pardons. He has zero credibility.

For now at least, among international leaders, this credibility problem appears to be localised mostly to Trump. Julia Ioffe reported that the background comings and goings of last week's NATO meeting was like a "support group": Americans scrambling to reassure the Europeans that Trump's position did not reflect US foreign policy, while Europeans were commiserating with their US counterparts for having to put up with Trump.

I read an article earlier in the week that spoke about the statement from Donald Tusk and it noted the wording where he said "The EU can no longer rely on the White House" , they felt that by saying "White house" and not "US" he was explicitly indicating that the problems were localised to Trump and not to the rest of the US political apparatus.

amandstu

Seems like Double Negative is trending

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44868050

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ypsltm5zNCU

RIGOLO

Igotadose wrote: »

Democractic Congressional candidates outgaining tGOP by bigger margins than those of 2010, that is, more Democratic candidates are ahead in the last 'wave' election than tGOP are ahead now. Bodes well for flipping the House in November, but there's 4 months to go and all kinds of mischief the POTUS can cause:
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/17/midterms-house-republicans-fundraising-728401

Quote:
"Democrats in 56 House districts surpassed Republican incumbents in second-quarter fundraising, according to a POLITICO analysis of the latest Federal Election Commission filings. Sixteen of those House Republicans finished the quarter with less cash in their campaign accounts than Democratic opponents, while no Democratic members lag their Republican challengers in cash. ....Historically, Republicans in 2018 are faring worse than Democrats in 2010, the last wave election, when the GOP picked up more than 60 House seats. In the second quarter of 2010, 44 incumbent Democrats were outraised by Republican challengers, many of whom captured their seats in the fall, according to a POLITICO review of FEC records. "

All good. Flip the House now, impeach in January. And there'll be neverTrumpers in the Senate next year.

And as we all know he/she who raises the most money does not win the election. 
HRC raised 1.2 billion and Trump approx 600 million, yet she still lost. 
Democrats seem to be happy to throw their money after the money they already lost on HRC, sounds like something the left would do. The money in this instance is a sign of desperation , no policy no hope lets just throw some money at it.
You got one thing right, 2010 was a wave, a RED wave and that wave is still rolling. THe money came cos they new they could usurp the house and Senate.
And if you believe this  "All good. Flip the House now, impeach in January. And there'll be neverTrumpers in the Senate next year.
Then I can only think of one response, its a response an anti-Trumper posted on this site and they didnt get hauled up over it so Im safe to say I can use the same phrase...if you believe that Ive got a bridge Id like to sell you. 

[*]

ELM327

listermint wrote: »

where did you get these Pick Ups and the stickers considering you are in Ireland and an Irish Citizen with nothing to do with the US. I dont even think we call them pickups here. Its just not the done thing.

This post makes no sense


hows the Tesla Model S purchase going in the UK?

Big change from a pickup bumper stickering person to a Tesla Model S.

Its getting tough to believe a single word you post at this point. You are painting a picture of being in the States. But you simply arent.

To be frank I don't give a toss what you believe or dont.
I've never claimed to be in the US. I have an interest in US vehicles and have owned several, including two pickups, a 60s land yacht and an SUV. The bumper stickers I bought at car shows, the vehicles I bought on donedeal, ebay uk, donedeal and ebay US respectively.

I also have an interest in EVs, have owned two (recently bought my Ioniq), and have a deposit down on a model 3 as the used model S I was considering was out of my budget at nearly £50k for the best one.


Now... what all that has to do with the issue at hand I don't know.



There are so many posts quoting my posts that I'm not going to bother replying to them all as I simply don't have the time.
But suffice it to say... no matter what the man does, he was and is a better option than hillary. He's doing a great job as POTUS **for his target vote base** which is all that matters, and he stands a great chance of being reelected.

Professor Moriarty

RIGOLO wrote: »

And as we all know he/she who raises the most money does not win the election.
HRC raised 1.2 billion and Trump approx 600 million, yet she still lost.
Democrats seem to be happy to throw their money after the money they already lost on HRC, sounds like something the left would do. The money in this instance is a sign of desperation , no policy no hope lets just throw some money at it.
You got one thing right, 2010 was a wave, a RED wave and that wave is still rolling. THe money came cos they new they could usurp the house and Senate.
And if you believe this "All good. Flip the House now, impeach in January. And there'll be neverTrumpers in the Senate next year.
Then I can only think of one response, its a response an anti-Trumper posted on this site and they didnt get hauled up over it so Im safe to say I can use the same phrase...if you believe that Ive got a bridge Id like to sell you.

• 
  
• 
  

The GOP have nothing to worry about so. It's all good. Let's hope The Donald continues to speak freely and often.

Pa8301

ELM327 wrote: »

There are so many posts quoting my posts that I'm not going to bother replying to them all as I simply don't have the time.

Because you've spewed out so much nonsense that you can't actually back up with any sort of reasons or facts.

Hazys

What is Putin thinking during all this?

He was a KGB foreign operative during the entirety of cold war where the US was enemy no.1. He then became a politician and worked his way all the way up to the top of the Russian political system becoming President and then he cemented himself as President for the unforeseeable future. He is a highly skilled negotiator and leader with very little morality to hold him back. Playing dirty by literally killing off the opposition or rigging/manipulating the rules at both home and abroad makes him an insanely powerful adversary to the west.

On the other hand you have Trump. A failed business man turned reality TV star. A narcissist who craves attention turned novice politician.

During the cold war the fight was competitive between USSR and the USA, but ultimately the US arguably came out well on top. Do you think Putin has put the cold war behind him and forgotten who his enemy is? It’s amazing that I even have to type that question. The Cold War and USSR may have ended but Russia still knows who its enemy is. Leaving out the possibility that Russia has been manipulating people of power and rich people of the US like Trump so they can be blackmailed later as we don’t know that for sure right now. But what we know for a fact is that they influenced the 2016 US Election to help push the candidate of their choice.

Russia saw a massive opportunity in the 2016 US Election. They saw how deeply divided the US is and they wanted to wedge that divide further. More importantly they also saw that there was a possibility to get a highly unqualified individual as the President of their arch rival (who you may be able to blackmail). Putin and the Russians must have been delighted at the success.

So not only as soon as this highly unqualified “politician” is put in place, Trump starts praising you constantly. The incompetence of Trump also starts increasing the tension between the Western superpowers of the EU and the USA. He then agrees to meet with you. Putin meets with Trump in person, the mismatch is monumental. Not only are you able to the get the leader of your arch rival to disown his own intelligence and believe your denial in private, he does it on live TV in front of the world. You made the President of your mortal enemy make a fool of himself and his country and you didn’t have to utter a word. Putin played Trump so badly it was extremely embarrassing. The next day Trump has to issue some of the most pathetic backtracking of all time and the funny thing is the US is so divided and easily manipulated that 50% of the population will eat that explanation up.

Putin is probably shirtless on a horse laughing at the US right now as I type this. He knows after years of being little brother to the US and the West, their opportunity to turn the tide in their favor is no greater now that it has ever been in history. With Trump not dropping the hammer on him for messing with their election but actually bending over to him instead, he knows its open season on attacking the US again.

ELM327

Pa8301 wrote: »

Because you've spewed out so much nonsense that you can't actually back up with any sort of reasons or facts.

Have you even replied to me?

Professor Moriarty

ELM327 wrote: »

To be frank I don't give a toss what you believe or dont.
I've never claimed to be in the US. I have an interest in US vehicles and have owned several, including two pickups, a 60s land yacht and an SUV. The bumper stickers I bought at car shows, the vehicles I bought on donedeal, ebay uk, donedeal and ebay US respectively.

I also have an interest in EVs, have owned two (recently bought my Ioniq), and have a deposit down on a model 3 as the used model S I was considering was out of my budget at nearly £50k for the best one.


Now... what all that has to do with the issue at hand I don't know.



There are so many posts quoting my posts that I'm not going to bother replying to them all as I simply don't have the time.
But suffice it to say... no matter what the man does, he was and is a better option than hillary. He's doing a great job as POTUS **for his target vote base** which is all that matters, and he stands a great chance of being reelected.

Agreed except that much of his 'great job' is more optics than substance.

RIGOLO

Trump speaking freely and openly has delivered the WH to the GOP and given them their strongest legislative position in living memory.  In fact the GOP has a stronger position than any party has experienced in living memory. 

So while the left rants about fascism, the 30s, coup d'etats and treason, whilst also limiting free speech (good luck with that policy winning votes) the right and Trump administration will roll along spekaing freely and openly and  getting the job done and moving on from November into 2020 .
It is indeed all good, for the GOP, the WH , the House, the Senate , the Supreme court and teh majority of State legislative houses .. it is indeed all good.

everlast75

Just leaving this quote here...

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”

— George Orwell, '1984'

Pa8301

ELM327 wrote: »

Have you even replied to me?

I was one of those posters who you couldn't be bothered replying to...

kunst nugget

What has he actually succeeded in doing for his target vote base?

DrumSteve

kunst nugget wrote: »

What has he actually succeeded in doing for his target vote base?

Triggered dem liberal cucks I suppose.

ELM327

Pa8301 wrote: »

I was one of those posters who you couldn't be bothered replying to...

Well in the myriad of replies what was your question

Pa8301

ELM327 wrote: »

Well in the myriad of replies what was your question

ELM327 wrote: »

I believe he changed his mind as he has changed his view, and I do not believe the story presented as the reason for change.

On what basis do you believe that he has changed his view? Anyway, what's the difference between changing his mind and changing his view?

Wanderer78

kunst nugget wrote:

What has he actually succeeded in doing for his target vote base?

Produced good paying jobs such as mining and manufacturing jobs etc

Leroy42

ELM327 wrote: »

But suffice it to say... no matter what the man does, he was and is a better option than hillary. He's doing a great job as POTUS **for his target vote base** which is all that matters, and he stands a great chance of being reelected.

This sums up your position very neatly. It really doesn't matter what he does, you don't care. ONce its not HC, the libs or whatever bogeyman you have been told to hate.

The fact that you can't even see that you have basically given in to only worrying about stopping the other side, rather than looking to make America better itself is frankly really odd.

pixelburp

Yeah, I'm curious as to what concrete achievement Trump managed for his base:

1. Repealing of Obamacare sputtered along and failed to materialise, by and large being a hugely unpopular bill when it eventually crawled over the finished line. IIRC one iteration of the Republican healthcare bill had it as 19% approval. Obamacare limps on, while the subject of single payer floats around.
2. One of his loudest policies during the campaign trail - building the infamous wall that Mexico was going to pay for - is dead, buried and probably unlikely to find its way into a bill. It was always one of the more fanciful ideas, given how logistically and financially impossible it would be.
3. The travel ban? Well I mean sure, after being in & out of the courts for ages, but honestly that's bread and circuses stuff, and by no metic should the threat of terrorism be keeping the flyover states up at night.
4. The various bathroom bills? Well has just seemed like conservatism picking on the one social demographic you could get away with targeting.
5. Roe vs. Wade? Not achieved yet and certainly has folks worried, but doesn't look like anything that'd go down without a fight.

In fact, on the wall: how any serious fiscal conservative could support that idea is beyond me; an obvious boondoggle with no practicality whatsoever yet the base lapped up the idea of spending a fortune on this thing.

Hurrache

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Produced good paying jobs such as mining and manufacturing jobs etc

Most US states lost mining jobs in 2017 apparently.

ELM327

Pa8301 wrote: »

On what basis do you believe that he has changed his view? Anyway, what's the difference between changing his mind and changing his view?

I think he said his actual view when he spoke initially and someone unidentified has made him change it, hence the retraction of the initial comment by stating it was "wouldn't" instead of "would".


Change mind/Change view, it's linguistic nuance but means the same thing essentially.

Pa8301

ELM327 wrote: »

I think he said his actual view when he spoke initially and someone unidentified has made him change it, hence the retraction of the initial comment by stating it was "wouldn't" instead of "would".


Change mind/Change view, it's linguistic nuance but means the same thing essentially.

So he hasn't changed his mind/view then? He actually just said what someone else told him to say?

Quin_Dub

RIGOLO wrote: »

Trump speaking freely and openly has delivered the WH to the GOP and given them their strongest legislative position in living memory.  In fact the GOP has a stronger position than any party has experienced in living memory. 

So while the left rants about fascism, the 30s, coup d'etats and treason, whilst also limiting free speech (good luck with that policy winning votes) the right and Trump administration will roll along spekaing freely and openly and  getting the job done and moving on from November into 2020 .
It is indeed all good, for the GOP, the WH , the House, the Senate , the Supreme court and teh majority of State legislative houses .. it is indeed all good.

And yet despite all of that , they have singularly failed to deliver on pretty much everything on their agenda.

To date the only significant achievement has been the Supreme court seats, which to be fair is an open goal given the House/Senate numbers.

They only just about manage a Tax bill passed and have failed to deliver anything else or any significance.