Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

jobbridge4life

CelticRambler wrote: »

20% of the teachers should be "weapons talented"

Twenty Percent! :eek:

Then he goes on History shows us that a school shooting lasts, on average, 3 minutes ... Highly trained, gun adept, teachers/coaches would solve the problem instantly.

There speaks someone who has no concept of the real world, and obviously didn't listen to the eyewitness reports from last week, when both students and teachers said they reacted with puzzlement and confusion, because they'd already had their fire drill that morning, or because they thought it was other students messing about.

Trevor Noah has the best take on this utterly bonkers suggestion:
https://youtu.be/ZQcaYYHqrUY?t=1m36s

Only the best? So will they end up having military academies and competitions
for teachers? At this juncture I just wish America would finally take the plunge and just the embrace the hyper militarised fascist hellscape it is becoming.

jooksavage

"Arm the teachers" might be the most mind-bogglingly stupid thing to come out of this (after the drone thing anyway). Clearly the NRA won't be happy until campuses are carpeted with guns and they start piping ammunition in classroom windows so students can swim around like Scrooge McDuck in bullets.

Hande hoche!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/966662241977360384

Will be curious as to whether they actually manage to pass anything.

DrumSteve

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Only the best? So will they end up having military academies and competitions
for teachers? At this juncture I just wish America would finally take the plunge and just the embrace the hyper militarised fascist hellscape it is becoming.

it's basically Starship Troopers at this point.

robinph

But don't the relatively pointless background checks only apply if you are buying a gun from a store?

Buying from anywhere else and there is no checks to be done, but that is still perfectly legal. The age limit will presumably only apply to store bought guns as well.

A simple first step, without anyone loosing their perceived "right" to own weapons, would just be to require everyone who legitimately owns a gun to have to have them all registered and for the person to require a license. If someone doesn't have a licence for it then that is a crime, if someones gun gets into the hands of someone who isn't licensed to carry that gun then that is a crime. People may start taking a bit more care about thinking if they actually need a weapon and who has access to it. Then a bit further down the line it would be possible to take other steps to start to limit the numbers of weapons floating around the country.

Penn

"I never said “give teachers guns” like was stated on Fake News @CNN & @NBC. What I said was to look at the possibility of giving “concealed guns to gun adept teachers with military or special training experience - only the best. 20% of teachers"

I never said "give teachers guns", I said "teachers should be given guns"! Totally different! Fake News! MAGA!

david75

He actually had to have empathetic questions written out for him. Amazing. Those in attendance were also prescreened and only Trump supporters chosen to attend.

Cameras caught Donald Trump holding a small cheat sheet to remind him to show compassion and empathy at a White House meeting attended by survivors of the Florida shooting.

https://www.facebook.com/newsandguts/posts/347628112308830

weisses

What is next then ... Strong adolescent lad overpowering a teacher takes gun and starts a killing spree ?

These "solutions" are approaching Olympic level of mental gymnastics

wnolan1992

jooksavage wrote: »

"Arm the teachers" might be the most mind-bogglingly stupid thing to come out of this (after the drone thing anyway). Clearly the NRA won't be happy until campuses are carpeted with guns and they start piping ammunition in classroom windows so students can swim around like Scrooge McDuck in bullets.

I said this after Sandy Hook. The best way to solve all these problems is to have automated gun turrets installed on every lamp post in the country.

What could possibly go wrong?

wnolan1992

weisses wrote: »

What is next then ... Strong adolescent lad overpowering a teacher takes gun and starts a killing spree ?

These "solutions" are approaching Olympic level of mental gymnastics

Arm the teachers. More shootings happen. Train kids in the use of firearms at a young age (bonus: we'll cut all funding from sex ed classes to fund gun training classes). Each classroom will be equipped with a weapons locker so that if a shooter comes on campus, the children can tool up and fight back rather than being pathetic "victims" like those Florida kids want to be seen as. More shootings will happen. Logical final step is to just make it mandatory for everyone to be armed at all times.

pixelburp

I don't think there's anything particularly surprising about this suggestion of arming teachers: the standard narrative from the gun lobby has always been along the lines of, "this wouldn't have happened if there was a 'Good Guy' with a gun"; sure, they've stopped short at suggesting schools should start arming teachers, but essentially that has been the rhetoric spoken by the NRA / republications for ages now. It was only a matter of time before we got to this point.

If there's a silver lining it's that arguably all this Rambo-teacher talk is finally shedding some light on just how ludicrous, obscene and unworkable the whole 'good guy with a gun' fallacy is. I dunno, maybe there was a similar burst of energy around the time of Sandy Hook and it's all destined to fizzle, but this time it feels like just the right combination of numbers and demographics have been mobilised here to get something done.

That said, the 'something' here is likely to be the absolute bare minimum of legislation that'll be functionally worthless, allowing politicians to walk away with their donations intact, while the media cycle moves on, having decided that the government made a change. Sandy Hook should have been the watershed: the mass killing of toddlers would have been the kick in the pants any of country required to change its ways. Yet here we are.

Penn

"Give teachers guns" is about trying to make the fight fair rather than stopping the fight from starting in the first place.

aloyisious

Another kick in the teeth to the relatives of the dead is that membership of the NRA is not required to buy weapons, yet the NRA support the 2nd amendment totally when there is complete and irrefutible proof it's stance is helping to keep the bodycount high. Sandyhook was attacked and discounted afterwards by proponents of the 2nd amendment. That shows the way they stonewall the facts, lying by calling victims liars, it was a hoax, never happened, and that now goes all the way to the top of US civil government.

looksee

Penn wrote: »

"Give teachers guns" is about trying to make the fight fair rather than stopping the fight from starting in the first place.

I hope this isn't a serious contribution? 'Fair fight' in a classroom? I suppose it would not be permissible for the children to wear bullet proof vests then? That wouldn't be fair at all.

Penn

looksee wrote: »

I hope this isn't a serious contribution? 'Fair fight' in a classroom? I suppose it would not be permissible for the children to wear bullet proof vests then? That wouldn't be fair at all.

It was a serious contribution (made in a flippant way) but I feel you may have misunderstood the point I was trying to make.

For those advocating teachers being given guns, it's about if a gunman entered the school/classroom and tried to start shooting people, the teacher would have a gun and would attempt to kill the gunman before he can shoot anyone (ie. a "fair fight" - person with gun vs person with gun). That's what they feel the best solution is, focusing on how to stop a gunman rather than preventing a wannabe gunman from being able to get a gun in the first place.

aloyisious

RTE 5 PM news has just played a recording of the head of the NRA, Wayne La Pierre, saying [at an NRA meeting] that what was going on now in relation to the Florida shooting was politicians in Washington trying to remove the 2nd amendment from the constitution. The meeting and recording seems to have been either yesterday or today and not of a historical nature..

CelticRambler

Yes, this morning in Washington. Excerpts have been shown on Sky this afternoon. Basically sumarised as "I told you so. Should have had guns in schools since Sandy Hook, like I said at the time. Parents and politicians are irresponsible if they send children to schools that haven't been turned into militarized zones"

froog

what a ****ing strange country.

Wanderer78

im completely convinced now, as the weeks, months and years pass by, this country is slowly moving towards civil war

david75

Wanderer78 wrote: »

im completely convinced now, as the weeks, months and years pass by, this country is slowly moving towards civil war

I was just thinking this same thing earlier.

Wanderer78

david75 wrote: »

I was just thinking this same thing earlier.

this has been on my mind for a very long time now, are we watching this occur before our eyes?

david75

Very possible.
It seems the rabid gun owner lobby are itching for a fight. But it won’t be government coming to take the guns we know that much, but something is definitely coming to a boil.

patsman07

david75 wrote: »

Very possible.
It seems the rabid gun owner lobby are itching for a fight. But it won’t be government coming to take the guns we know that much, but something is definitely coming to a boil.

It may have happened already had Hilary won the election. The way Trump was warning about the election being rigged, had his base stirred up enough as it was. Given his petulance, he wouldn't have intervened to calm tensions. That, combined with a Russian backed facebook/twitter storm would have been enough to inspire violence on the streets.

Wanderer78

patsman07 wrote: »

It may have happened already had Hilary won the election. The way Trump was warning about the election being rigged, had his base stirred up enough as it was. Given his petulance, he wouldn't have intervened to calm tensions. That, combined with a Russian backed facebook/twitter storm would have been enough to inspire violence on the streets.

i suspect it doesnt actually matter whos in power now, as it seems to be almost out of control and almost self perpetuating

demfad

Penn wrote: »

"Give teachers guns" is about trying to make the fight fair rather than stopping the fight from starting in the first place.

No, It's all about deflection from gun control which is what should happen when dozens of children are slaughtered by a military style gun in the hands of a teenager.

Teachers are never going to be armed but it changes the discussion and wastes time while the news cycle changes.

Professor Moriarty

demfad wrote: »

No, It's all about deflection from gun control which is what should happen when dozens of children are slaughtered by a military style gun in the hands of a teenager.

Teachers are never going to be armed but it changes the discussion and wastes time while the news cycle changes.

Very well put.

demfad

Wanderer78 wrote: »

im completely convinced now, as the weeks, months and years pass by, this country is slowly moving towards civil war

The NRA are implicated and being investigated in Trump-Russia via Alexander Torshin. The question is can Trump be removed without a vast amount of civil disturbance?

https://www.snopes.com/2018/02/16/did-kremlin-give-money-to-nra/

Leroy42

I have to say, that I really do think there is something of a seachange since the Florida shooting. As I said earlier, I am cynical whether this can actually achieve anything.

I think, for example, that Rubio looked really shocked at how much anger there was directed at him. He tried to stare down the 1st Dad, who simply stared straight back and then called him out on it. Whilst he is used to getting blowback, I really felt he was forced to take a few steps back, even going as far as agreeing that guns were part of the problem and bump stocks etc should be banned (these might look like nothing but coming from Rubio it is quite a statement).

I also think that despite the youtube views etc, the portrayal of these students as actors etc is coming across really badly and is seen for what it is.

The thing is these students are about to find out that DC moves very slowly on anything. And they are not used to that. They are currently 'enjoying' (I use that term in the action sense rather than the emotive) the access to the media etc but that will fall away and then they face the lonely fight of trying to get things done.

robinph

Penn wrote: »

looksee wrote: »

I hope this isn't a serious contribution? 'Fair fight' in a classroom? I suppose it would not be permissible for the children to wear bullet proof vests then? That wouldn't be fair at all.

It was a serious contribution (made in a flippant way) but I feel you may have misunderstood the point I was trying to make.

For those advocating teachers being given guns, it's about if a gunman entered the school/classroom and tried to start shooting people, the teacher would have a gun and would attempt to kill the gunman before he can shoot anyone (ie. a "fair fight" - person with gun vs person with gun). That's what they feel the best solution is, focusing on how to stop a gunman rather than preventing a wannabe gunman from being able to get a gun in the first place.

Except what would actually happen is that the bad guy enters the school, shoots teacher, bad guy now has two guns and some more ammo.

Water John

Well, it finished Rubio ever rerunning for POTUS any way.