Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

copperhead

Listening to his address i can't help but feel there are many similarities between his speeches and Hitler's

Really Interested

copperhead wrote: »

Listening to his address i can't help but feel there are many similarities between his speeches and Hitler's

Well lot alike but Hitler was at least somewhat intelligent.

spacecoyote

expect to hear him rave about this soon on Twitter too:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/trump_approval_index_history

He's back at 50% approval / 49% disapproval on Rasmussen

Now, if you look at the Strong Approve/Disapprove its 34% / 41%, so -7% on the extreme ends

circadian

copperhead wrote: »

Listening to his address i can't help but feel there are many similarities between his speeches and Hitler's

Hitler, despite being off his face on speed, was more coherent.

Manic Moran

listermint wrote: »

For someone who was/is part of the miltary machine in the US though is it not concerning to you that the US soft power is being undermined by what could be construed as your biggest enemy of the last 60 years.

I mean you seem rather okay with the idea based solely on the fact you are a republican voter anyway.

Have to say Manic its a perplexing viewpoint especially from an Irishman.

I'm not a party line voter. I have voted Democrat (I went Bernie in the primary, and my current State Senate rep), Republican (My current State house Rep), and Libertarian (Presidential General). All depends on which of the lousy crop of candidates I get to choose from best matches my desires. I can understand why you may think I vote republican, because I tend to pipe up more when I disagree with the Boards groupthink, but I am not a reliable R voter.

I'm thinking more along the lines of the practical result. OK, the troll farms are 'sowing division'. So what? Does anyone here believe that this nation was not (and particularly not on social media) already ridiculously divided? We've been suffering from 'fake news' since before the Obama birth certificate thing. If the government or FB management or whoever want to start attacking misleading news, I'm all for it if they can figure out a way to do it. But that applies equally to Russian-sourced as US sourced. We've enough domestic idiots to warrant it anyway.

Further, let's say they specifically target Russian IP addresses, or advertising space paid for in Rubles. What's stopping someone going to the US, and posting from some IP in Idaho, and paying for advertising in dollars? Or, convincing a local US 'useful idiot' to do it. A genuine American, doing what he genuinely believes, just with generous donors. At what point does it become speech which the US government can 'regulate'?

Thargor wrote: »

Wow that is not how I pictured bump stocks working at all, I thought they were going to be way way more complicate

Whelp.. I have repeatedly stated on here that because of the way the things work, by not actually changing the operating mechanism of the rifle, legally defining the thing is bloody difficult, that it is easy to produce at home a similarly functioning component, and that since all it does is rely on recoil to move the rifle in relation to the trigger finger, it's not actually a necessary component to bump-fire anyway. I am, however, a gun nut, so any of my observations on the matter are obviously irrelevant.

I do appreciate your actually doing your own research though.

I note many posts on here complaining about the stupidity or impossibility of arming teachers, but not one observing that about ten States currently allow it, and there are already a number of teachers who have chosen to be armed (And in some States like Colorado or Utah, students (All over 21) who are licensed to carry off-campus may also carry on university campuses). It's not impossible, and it hasn't shown to be a problem. From yesterday:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-its-like-for-one-teacher-who-already-carries-a-gun/

Sonics2k

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

trump on fire at cpac .... like a young Richard Prior

Off his rocker from cocaine?

everlast75

Trump calling that deputy a coward!

This coming from the guy who dodged the draft.

FFS :mad:

Leroy42

I know, I just read it. I mean the guy is probably broken at this point, he knows in his heart he should've done differently. But to call him out to the world, by POTUS.

And as you mentioned the sheer hypocrisy of a draft dodger like Trump saying it. This man was a first responder, those that Trump loves so much. Do we know about all the good he has done in the past? Do we know if there was anything that triggered it? It is a crass and hurtful comment to make, all because Trump was to look tough.

J Mysterio

Fantastic article in the Irish Times by am Irish woman who teaches in an American school

California: ‘I never thought it would involve taking a bullet’

It's a scary world when an idea like Trumps isn't laughed out the door.

Really Interested

Leroy42 wrote: »

I know, I just read it. I mean the guy is probably broken at this point, he knows in his heart he should've done differently. But to call him out to the world, by POTUS.

And as you mentioned the sheer hypocrisy of a draft dodger like Trump saying it. This man was a first responder, those that Trump loves so much. Do we know about all the good he has done in the past? Do we know if there was anything that triggered it? It is a crass and hurtful comment to make, all because Trump was to look tough.

I believe he was actually on duty to protect the school https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.smh.com.au/world/deputy-at-florida-high-school-resigns-after-failing-to-engage-shooter-20180223-p4z1ew.html

Exactly the type of idea Trump is proposing won’t happen if people at school have guns and are trained well fvck me there was a trained armed person at the school not arrived but was at the school yet 17 died.

“Deputy Scott Peterson, who was on duty and in uniform as the resource officer posted at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, was the only law enforcement officer present at the campus during the six-minute rampage last Wednesday,”

Are the armed teachers who don’t stop an attack going to have to go to ground when the President calls them cowards.

Professor Moriarty

Leroy42 wrote: »

I know, I just read it. I mean the guy is probably broken at this point, he knows in his heart he should've done differently. But to call him out to the world, by POTUS.

And as you mentioned the sheer hypocrisy of a draft dodger like Trump saying it. This man was a first responder, those that Trump loves so much. Do we know about all the good he has done in the past? Do we know if there was anything that triggered it? It is a crass and hurtful comment to make, all because Trump was to look tough.

That's grossly inaccurate and unfair. He had a spur on his heel which meant he couldn't be drafted. Thankfully this healed very quickly afterwards.

B0jangles

everlast75 wrote: »

Trump calling that deputy a coward!

This coming from the guy who dodged the draft.

FFS :mad:

I hope that poor man is getting some decent emotional support because I can't imagine how damaging it would be to be so mercilessly shamed in the aftermath of such a terrible event.

I mean, he's almost certainly already eaten up by guilt; being publically called a coward by the President of the United States (even if that president is Trump), is extremely cruel and dangerous.

Leroy42

Really Interested wrote: »

I believe he was actually on duty to protect the school https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.smh.com.au/world/deputy-at-florida-high-school-resigns-after-failing-to-engage-shooter-20180223-p4z1ew.html

Exactly the type of idea Trump is proposing won’t happen if people at school have guns and are trained well fvck me there was a trained armed person at the school not arrived but was at the school yet 17 died.

Yeah, but that's because the man is a coward, Trump will only get the best people. That is why Trump is calling him out as a coward, as otherwise people will raise the question you, and every sane person, has.

So its all to do with making Trump look better. Just imagine you had been involved in something you weren't proud of, and the whole world is calling you out on it. And to top it off, the POTUS.

I just think its a really scummy thing for him to have done (Trump)

Manic Moran

J Mysterio wrote: »

Fantastic article in the Irish Times by am Irish woman who teaches in an American school

California: ‘I never thought it would involve taking a bullet’

It's a scary world when an idea like Trumps isn't laughed out the door.

It's an interesting, and well written article. But though she speaks for many, particularly in California, she in no way speaks for all. "Most importantly we come armed with books that will change lives as they flood your students’ heads with light and healing beauty and mysterious truths. But we will never ever come to our students armed with guns." Yet demonstrably, a number already do, and I only see that number increasing.

jobbridge4life

Manic Moran wrote: »

It's an interesting, and well written article. But though she speaks for many, particularly in California, she in no way speaks for all. "Most importantly we come armed with books that will change lives as they flood your students’ heads with light and healing beauty and mysterious truths. But we will never ever come to our students armed with guns." Yet demonstrably, a number already do, and I only see that number increasing.

'Particularly California'... because you have to be from a liberal coastal state to think that armed teachers is a disaster? Of course the number will increase, because America has allowed its school to become potential war zones and decided its children are expendable. That is the essence of the modern American tragedy.

Manic Moran

jobbridge4life wrote: »

'Particularly California'... because you have to be from a liberal coastal state to think that armed teachers is a disaster?

No, because the public opinion on the subject of firearms tends to depend on the regional demographics, and people usually will congregate around folks who share their own line of thinking. The majority in some states think it's a good idea. These states also tend not to be heavily Democratic, or heavily urbanised.

You don't have to be from California to think it's a bad idea, but those who live here tend to. And those who don't, don't necessarily tend to.

listermint

Manic Moran wrote: »

No, because the public opinion on the subject of firearms tends to depend on the regional demographics, and people usually will congregate around folks who share their own line of thinking. The majority in some states think it's a good idea. These states also tend not to be heavily Democratic, or heavily urbanised.

You don't have to be from California to think it's a bad idea, but those who live here tend to. And those who don't, don't necessarily tend to.

You don't find it in anyway amazing why people would think arming teachers .

Yes teachers in a school is ludicrous?

You've been living in the us bubble for too long seriously have to question the sanity of turning a school into a prison.

Im lost for words.

oscarBravo

Manic Moran wrote: »

I note many posts on here complaining about the stupidity or impossibility of arming teachers, but not one observing that about ten States currently allow it, and there are already a number of teachers who have chosen to be armed (And in some States like Colorado or Utah, students (All over 21) who are licensed to carry off-campus may also carry on university campuses). It's not impossible, and it hasn't shown to be a problem.

The idea of armed teachers is objectively insane.

The USA has lost its mind. Civilised countries don't have debates about whether or not teachers should carry firearms because jebus wept people why would teachers carry firearms?!

The Florida legislature, on the same day, refused to discuss gun control in the context of a school shooting and declared pornography dangerous to teenagers.

There's no point trying to have a rational conversation about that. Sorry Manic, you're an articulate and intelligent guy, but you've been captured by the utter batsh*t insanity of the society you live in.

I honestly, genuinely don't believe that the USA can be fixed. I think it's irretrievably broken. Douglas Adams wrote a character called Wonko the Sane, who built the world an asylum to live in because he read instructions on a packet of toothpicks. I don't know what he would have done with a conversation about whether or not teachers should be armed...

Pepefrogok

B0jangles wrote: »

I hope that poor man is getting some decent emotional support because I can't imagine how damaging it would be to be so mercilessly shamed in the aftermath of such a terrible event.

I mean, he's almost certainly already eaten up by guilt; being publically called a coward by the President of the United States (even if that president is Trump), is extremely cruel and dangerous.

The cop who stood down while kids were being killed is a coward and should feel shame.

oscarBravo

Pepefrogok wrote: »

The cop who stood down while kids were being killed is a coward and should feel shame.

I'm sure you speak from your decades of experience confronting heavily-armed school shooters all alone with your sidearm.

That, or you're mindlessly parroting talking points from the stupidest president in the history of humankind. Hard to say which.

FatherTed

oscarBravo wrote: »

I'm sure you speak from your decades of experience confronting heavily-armed school shooters all alone with your sidearm.

That, or you're mindlessly parroting talking points from the stupidest president in the history of humankind. Hard to say which.

Right. From what I read he had good reputation and was previously recommended for deputy of the year so I'm willing to give him the benefit of doubt until we hear this story. Maybe there was bad communication, he was in the wrong place or some other reason. Or maybe he chickened out, who knows, but it's too early to jump to conclusions.

ECO_Mental

oscarBravo wrote: »

That, or you're mindlessly parroting talking points from the stupidest president in the history of humankind. Hard to say which.

Also a coward himself...... 4 time draft dodger don't forget

Pepefrogok

oscarBravo wrote: »

I'm sure you speak from your decades of experience confronting heavily-armed school shooters all alone with your sidearm.

That, or you're mindlessly parroting talking points from the stupidest president in the history of humankind. Hard to say which.

I haven't any experience confronting heavily armed school shooters, and I probably never will because I have not signed up to a job in law enforcement and swore an oath to protect the public, same as not being a fan of entering burning buildings stops we from joining the fire brigade. Are things really so polarised now that people will be offended by people calling a cop who failed to do the job he is paid to do and resulted in a load of kids dead a coward? With his training and weapon his chances of taking out the bad guy were high, sure there was a chance he would get killed but all cops face that threat, put it this way if he said he would react this way at the interview he wouldn't have got the job.

Itssoeasy

FatherTed wrote: »

Right. From what I read he had good reputation and was previously recommended for deputy of the year so I'm willing to give him the benefit of doubt until we hear this story. Maybe there was bad communication, he was in the wrong place or some other reason. Or maybe he chickened out, who knows, but it's too early to jump to conclusions.

I found the fact that trump of all people called him a coward when he got out of serving in Vietnam over bone spurs laughable.

FatherTed

The inevitable has happened, Gates pleads guilty

Rick Gates, a former top official in President Trump’s campaign, pleaded guilty Friday afternoon to conspiracy and lying to the FBI, striking a deal to cooperate and provide information to special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s ongoing investigation.

The plea caps a tumultuous 24 hours for Gates in which he was hit with fresh charges, changed lawyers and admitted crimes.

According to a criminal information — a document filed earlier Friday with the permission of the defendant — Gates conspired to defraud the United States regarding the money he and his business partner Paul Manafort earned while working for a political party in Ukraine and lied to the FBI in a Feb. 1, 2018 interview about a 2013 meeting between Manafort, a lobbyist, and a congressman.

That FBI interview came as Gates was trying to negotiate a plea deal. In the interview, Gates claimed there had been no discussion of Ukraine at the 2013 meeting, when in fact, Gates and Manafort prepared a report detailing the Ukrainian discussions, according to the criminal information.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/former-trump-campaign-official-rick-gates-expected-to-plead-guilty-and-cooperate-with-special-counsel-in-probe-of-russian-election-interference/2018/02/23/ceaaeac8-16b4-11e8-b681-2d4d462a1921_story.html?utm_term=.38f951b4d482

Manafort will be next...

Hande hoche!

Yeah, Manafort is going to be feeling the squeeze. Be intrigued as to what he chooses or is able to offer for a plea bargain.

oscarBravo

Pepefrogok wrote: »

I haven't any experience confronting heavily armed school shooters, and I probably never will because I have not signed up to a job in law enforcement and swore an oath to protect the public, same as not being a fan of entering burning buildings stops we from joining the fire brigade.

Me neither. The difference is, I wouldn't describe a firefighter who didn't run into a burning building as a coward, especially if I wasn't there and wasn't in a position to judge whether or not it was the right thing to do. That would be a dickish thing to say about someone, wouldn't you agree?

Are things really so polarised now that people will be offended by people calling a cop who failed to do the job he is paid to do and resulted in a load of kids dead a coward?

I'm offended by someone who doesn't know what he's talking about calling someone else a coward for not meeting the sort of high standards it's easy to hold while cowering behind a keyboard and a pseudonym.

With his training and weapon his chances of taking out the bad guy were high...

Based on your extensive experience in law enforcement?

...sure there was a chance he would get killed but all cops face that threat, put it this way if he said he would react this way at the interview he wouldn't have got the job.

Based on your extensive experience in interviewing candidates for law enforcement jobs?

You could just admit that you're mindlessly parroting the talking points of an idiot. It wouldn't reflect well on you, but probably not much worse than what you've already said.

Penn

Manic Moran wrote: »

I note many posts on here complaining about the stupidity or impossibility of arming teachers, but not one observing that about ten States currently allow it, and there are already a number of teachers who have chosen to be armed (And in some States like Colorado or Utah, students (All over 21) who are licensed to carry off-campus may also carry on university campuses). It's not impossible, and it hasn't shown to be a problem. From yesterday:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-its-like-for-one-teacher-who-already-carries-a-gun/

If I may ask, given your expertise and knowledge of firearms, who is more likely to win in a shootout: someone with an assault rifle who has planned their attack and knows the teacher may be armed, or the teacher with a concealed handgun in the middle of teaching a class of students who doesn't know an attack is about to happen?

Because it seems to me, and granted I'm not an expert on the subject, that at the very least a gunman who walks into a school and bursts into a classroom would likely be able to take down the first teacher regardless of whether or not they're armed and would have a classroom of students at their mercy before another teacher or guard would be able to get to them.

jooksavage

FatherTed wrote: »

The inevitable has happened, Gates pleads guilty


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/former-trump-campaign-official-rick-gates-expected-to-plead-guilty-and-cooperate-with-special-counsel-in-probe-of-russian-election-interference/2018/02/23/ceaaeac8-16b4-11e8-b681-2d4d462a1921_story.html?utm_term=.38f951b4d482

Manafort will be next...

No way Manafort is going to hold out. This is a guy who committed major fraud to maintain his extravagant lifestyle - not a chance he's going to end up dying in a federal prison. Mueller is living up to his reputation.

Overheal

Currently, there are at least 18 states which allow armed adults on school property with relatively minor conditions.

A 2013 NBC News investigation found:

Alabama (which bans possessing a weapon on school grounds only if the carrier has "intent to do bodily harm")
California (with approval of the superintendent)
Connecticut (with approval of "school officials")
Hawaii (no specific law)
Idaho (with school trustees' approval)
Iowa (with "authorization")
Kentucky (with school board approval)
Massachusetts (with approval of the school board or principal)
Mississippi (with school board approval)
Montana (with school trustees' permission)
New Hampshire (ban applies only to pupils, not adults)
New Jersey (with approval from the school's "governing officer")
New York (with the school's approval)
Oregon (with school board approval)
Rhode Island (with a state concealed weapons permit)
Texas (with the school's permission)
Utah (with approval of the "responsible school administrator")
Wyoming (as long as it's not concealed)

And yet in most of these states they've had a school shooting incident in the last 10 years. Texas, in particular, with its don't mess with us gun loving culture, shows up on that list *disproportionately*