Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

demfad

pixelburp wrote: »

That's the weird thing: I'm surprised more journalists critical of the administration haven't leapt on the chance to highlight how, despite talking about MAGA and 'America First', Trump & pals are actively trying to demolish the very structures that enable America's 'soft power' across the world in the first place.

I get Americans are pretty insular at the best of times, but surely even the biggest hawks can appreciate that to be a big player in the world, you need a strong network of diplomats, spies etc. to ensure the US benefits in all things.

Many journalists have been bringing it up. However, the nature of the hyper news cycle surrounding thsi circus meant that nothing could stick long enough. Or rather so much sh1t stuck you couldnt coherently pin them for one piece.

This guy was in charge of Russian TV in the 90's. His methods are now widespread with RW administrations and those with Russian 'connections':
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od4MWs7qTr8

Gbear

demfad wrote: »

The clearest act of pro-Russian sabotage was this dismantling. It was literally Russian foreign policy. Tillerson was clearly put in this role because of his friendly relations with Russia. He has no other qualifications for it. Maybe he was this naive....

There was a report a good way back about a 3 way musketeer pack between Tillerson, Mattis, and Kelly I think. If one goes...

As far as I can tell there's a pretty huge proportion of the US population who, at least in theory, want the Federal state all but abolished.

In practice, they probably still want their medicaid and food stamps, and probably quite a few want to go around bombing anyone who looks at them funny as well, but there is at least a coherent notion that exists that the US state should be less interventionist and have less central control over the states.

It's easy to criticise that concept when they're weakening soft power or abolishing net neutrality, but the same Federal state also passed the Patriot act, and loads of local and state governments are now passing their own net neutrality legislation.

It isn't necessarily Russian meddling and it's consistent with what a lot of Americans want.
They probably feel a bit like the Brexit crowd, except in their case, the central government boogeyman actually has done and still does terrible things consistently.

Leroy42

Whilst I have no time for Tillerson and agree with Demfad about his gutting of the department, given that he was achieving exactly what was asked why is Trump firing him now?

demfad

Gbear wrote: »

As far as I can tell there's a pretty huge proportion of the US population who, at least in theory, want the Federal state all but abolished.

In practice, they probably still want their medicaid and food stamps, and probably quite a few want to go around bombing anyone who looks at them funny as well, but there is at least a coherent notion that exists that the US state should be less interventionist and have less central control over the states.

It's easy to criticise that concept when they're weakening soft power or abolishing net neutrality, but the same Federal state also passed the Patriot act, and loads of local and state governments are now passing their own net neutrality legislation.

It isn't necessarily Russian meddling and it's consistent with what a lot of Americans want.
They probably feel a bit like the Brexit crowd, except in their case, the central government boogeyman actually has done and still does terrible things consistently.

This narrative has been amplified by RW media and social media. In particular by the vast social media machine controled by Robert Mercer who supports this. You will find that all of the more radical right wing ideas are actually controlled by quite a few people and often by one or two people. These are not the organic mass movements that they are made out to be.

There is literally no difference between Mercer's network and Russia's. They have coordinated in Trump's election, Brexit, German and French elections in the last couple of years.

I would bet my house that the largest hedge fund in the world--the medallion fund-- run by Mercer through RenTec and boasting a 70% return, is one of teh worlds biggest laundromats for Russian money.

The State department is concerned with foreign affairs. Mercer is happy to have it decimated but it's destruction allows Russia (and China) to behave as they have for teh last 2 years.

Itssoeasy

So tillerson didn't know he was being fired until he saw it on twitter ? So if he expected to stay on then why did he condemn Russia for the nerve agent attack in the U.K. ? He's isn't an idiot so had to know that wouldn't sit well with the Donald. It's very strange to me.

kilns

Can you imagine working for Trump in a private capacity, you would be coming into work everyday having to kiss his feet to keep your job

Sierra Oscar

Steve Goldstein has been sacked now too.

Itssoeasy

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Steve Goldstein has been sacked now too.

Sorry who's Steve Goldstein now ? And what did he do wrong ?

everlast75

Details of the aide's firing emerging..

https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/973574590839607296

This can only be described as pure chaos now at this stage??

Leroy42

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Sorry who's Steve Goldstein now ? And what did he do wrong ?

He was an aide to Tillerson and let out a statement saying that Tillerson knew nothing of the firing or why he was being fired.

Apparently, from what I have read, he was pretty anti-Trump so my bet is that once Tillerson was gone he let it go too knowing his gig was up either way.

Sierra Oscar

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Sorry who's Steve Goldstein now ? And what did he do wrong ?

Steve Goldstein was Under Secretary of State. He disputed Trump's account of how Tillerson was informed of his dismissal.

https://twitter.com/NBCPolitics/status/973595043360632832

everlast75

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Sorry who's Steve Goldstein now ? And what did he do wrong ?

here is the reason why he was fired...

https://twitter.com/UnderSecPD/status/973554427029225472

VinLieger

everlast75 wrote: »

Details of the aide's firing emerging..

https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/973574590839607296

This can only be described as pure chaos now at this stage??

He was immediately rehired by Trump 2020

MadYaker

Wtf? Trump appoints director of CIA as secretary of state? Drain that swamp!

Hurrache

everlast75 wrote: »

Details of the aide's firing emerging..

https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/973574590839607296

This can only be described as pure chaos now at this stage??

Ha, so his 'security issue' is just a matter of being investigated by homeland security no less for serious financial crimes, and yet Trump immediately rehires him.

demfad

MadYaker wrote: »

Wtf? Trump appoints director of CIA as secretary of state? Drain that swamp!

Pompeo believes in the rapture..the holy war to end all wars.

Itssoeasy

According to what MSNBC is saying that this might not be the last firing from trump in regards to dissenting voices in his cabinet. I hadn't heard about trump saying he nearly has the cabinet he wants.

Igotadose

kilns wrote: »

Can you imagine working for Trump in a private capacity, you would be coming into work everyday having to kiss his feet to keep your job

So? You don't have to work too hard - cf. Betsy DeVos, who can't even get through a softball interview with Lesley Stahl. Like they said on "The View," "What's she been doing all this time?"

Raising money for Trump2020, probably.

Steve Bannon must be beside himself with laughter seeing all the chaos. Secretary of State, Under Secretary of State, former white house aide, anyone else? And it's only Tuesday!

jooksavage

Chaos. What a shambles.

I was listening to Tommy Vietor, who previously served in the Obama WH, talk about the 7 years of painstaking dipolmatic work that produced the 2016 Iranian deal. Pretty amazing stuff and goes to show what can be achieved with an effective diplomatic corps.

There is no reality where the concentric circles of clowns and cronies that Trump is surrounding himself with have the diplomatic skills required to turn the impending meeting with NK into something meaningful.

demfad

jooksavage wrote: »

Chaos. What a shambles.

I was listening to Tommy Vietor, who previously served in the Obama WH, talk about the 7 years of painstaking dipolmatic work that produced the 2016 Iranian deal. Pretty amazing stuff and goes to show what can be achieved with an effective diplomatic corps.

There is no reality where the concentric circles of clowns and cronies that Trump is surrounding himself with have the diplomatic skills required to turn the impending meeting with NK into something meaningful.

Not chaos. Organised media excruciating noise to divert from other news. Swapping the pieces in the WH and palace intrigue means nothing as the power and authority is controlled by Trump.

He wants the media talking about chaos and not why Trump refuses to condemn Russia for an attack on the US top ally the UK.

Itssoeasy

Rex tillerson is making an on camera statement at the us state department at 18:00pm Irish time. I mean he's been fired so I wonder will he just go "**** it" and leave a beauty of a "exit interview" and take shots at trump.

Leroy42

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Rex tillerson is making an on camera statement at the us state department at 18:00pm Irish time. I mean he's been fired so I wonder will he just go "**** it" and leave a beauty of a "exit interview" and take shots at trump.

Seriously doubt it. You don't make it the top of Exxon or that type of company by making enemies for no reason. Trump is still POTUS and as such can make life very difficult for Tillerson. He will be gracious and say whilst he felt he had more to offer he feels the upmost pride to have had the opportunity to serve both the President and the American people.

Inquitus

Leroy42 wrote: »

Seriously doubt it. You don't make it the top of Exxon or that type of company by making enemies for no reason. Trump is still POTUS and as such can make life very difficult for Tillerson. He will be gracious and say whilst he felt he had more to offer he feels the upmost pride to have had the opportunity to serve both the President and the American people.

He's retirement age, absolutely loaded, I agree I don't think he'll launch both barrels, but theoretically he could and still go away and enjoy the rest of his life!

vetinari

I think he'd be far too cowardly to say something negative about Trump.

Itssoeasy

Rex has started speaking.

Itssoeasy

I don't think he's mentioned trump yet by name. He's bigging up the state dept and the DOD.

Itssoeasy

He didn't mention president trump once.

aloyisious

The gent from Brookings Institute laid bare the stripping Rex did at State Dept of staff.

Professor Moriarty

Pompeo and Haspel face a grilling in the Senate. Haspel, in particular, has some awkward questions to answer. By the time the Senate votes on their appointments, the Dems will need the support of just one Republican to scupper The Donald's nominees.

everlast75

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Pompeo and Haspel face a grilling in the Senate. Haspel, in particular, has some awkward questions to answer. By the time the Senate votes on their appointments, the Dems will need the support of just one Republican to scupper The Donald's nominees.

McCain in particular will have a tough time planned for Haspel...