Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

VinLieger

Mr.Micro wrote: »

The press have been doing that for years before the Internet. In the UK fir example The Sun and other rags printed lies and propaganda, which influenced people when it came to voting. What else is Facebook up to around the globe.

True but now these companies like CA can track in real time the success and failure rates of their campaigns and adjust accordingly, its scary stuff and as close to brain washing as we've gotten i would argue

Laois_Man

Leroy42 wrote: »

Did you see the report and have you read any of Demfad posts (and others)?

If you don't see this as a massive story, not just in terms of Trump but overall, then you are simply not paying attention.

Here's one example. CA were able to mine data on people within FB by running surveys, like "Test your knowledge of flags", or "what Spice girl would you be" type nonsense. All harmless really. Except that by taking the survey you were giving permission to CA to get access to all your FB data. OK, you might say, should have checked the small print. But, not only you, they then have access to all your friends' data. So even if you personally never took one you were probably caught up in it.

So yes Obama used FB to spot trends and target potential voters. But this is completely different. This was aimed at sending fake news to those accounts they they felt could be turned. Targeting them with specific feeds to get them to vote a particular way.

But even if you are right, even if Obama did it too, does that make it right? Does everything have to be about what was done in the past?

I am a Data Scientist myself....and I know this stuff. The only point I made was this is nothing new. Facebook has been up to this type of thing for years before Trump ran for President - almost since their inception nearly 15 years ago! Not just for politicians/party's but for corporations too. Abusing people's personal data. If you try to invoke your data protection rights, they don't engage with you. You take them to court and they drag the case out for years and years until you are broke and have to give up....see Max Schrems

Leroy42

Mr.Micro wrote: »

The press have been doing that for years before the Internet. In the UK fir example The Sun and other rags printed lies and propaganda, which influenced people when it came to voting. What else is Facebook up to around the globe.

Totally agree, the likes of the Express etc are still doing it. So in a way I can see that this is simply the next evolution of that.

That doesn't make it right, any more than the Sun etc are right. But at least the Sun etc could was somewhat static and couldn't target individuals, unlike this.

Basically, they start with a message. Lets go with "Hate HC". Now, they can create individual stories to target the type of thing that would impact you directly. So, she wants you guns is the message to gun owners etc.

The question becomes, who knew about this, when and what did they do with the info. Given Manafort, Bannon etc links with the company surely nobody is naive enough to think that Trump wasn't fully aware of what was going on.

Leroy42

Laois_Man wrote: »

I am a Data Scientist myself....and I know this stuff. The only point I made was this is nothing new. Facebook has been up to this type of thing for years before Trump ran for President - almost since their inception nearly 15 years ago! Not just for politicians/party's but for corporations too. Abusing people's personal data. If you try to invoke your data protection rights, they don't engage with you. You take them to court and they drag the case out for years and years until you are broke and have to give up....see Max Schrems

Totally agree. Why anyone would still have a functioning FB account at this stage is well beyond my comprehension. Is the need for 'likes' so strong that people are willing to give up their personal information on such a large scale?

I am not a data scientist, but through post on here and further research have tried to be somewhat informed. Just wondering, what would you consider some of the places that I should be reading up on this area? (without obviously having to do a degree course!)

It would appear so.

Laois_Man

Leroy42 wrote: »

I am not a data scientist, but through post on here and further research have tried to be somewhat informed. Just wondering, what would you consider some of the places that I should be reading up on this area? (without obviously having to do a degree course!)

Sorry what aspects of the area specifically? Do you mean pre-processing and algorithms or data privacy and how yours gets compromised?

The former is no easy answer bar signing up for a Masters
The latter is widely reported upon and the kinds of issues raised by Max Schrems are a good thing to look at. Not all of it is bad mind you. Internet of Things is a new emerging factor also - for good and bad.

dudara

Leroy42 wrote: »

Here's one example. CA were able to mine data on people within FB by running surveys, like "Test your knowledge of flags", or "what Spice girl would you be" type nonsense. All harmless really. Except that by taking the survey you were giving permission to CA to get access to all your FB data. OK, you might say, should have checked the small print. But, not only you, they then have access to all your friends' data. So even if you personally never took one you were probably caught up in it.

So yes Obama used FB to spot trends and target potential voters. But this is completely different. This was aimed at sending fake news to those accounts they they felt could be turned. Targeting them with specific feeds to get them to vote a particular way.

But even if you are right, even if Obama did it too, does that make it right? Does everything have to be about what was done in the past?

The Obama campaign did it too, yes, but it was openly for the purpose of electing Obama

In the case of CA, they didn't collect the data themselves. They got an academic to front for them, who told Facebook he was gathering the data for "academic research" then passed it to CA. In addition, users were not told for what purpose their data was being gathered. It's quite different from the Obama situation.

Ludo wrote: »

Just don't see this gaining traction. He has gotten away with way more obvious stuff which should have affected his Presidency. This just ain't going to matter. I hope I am wrong but I am guessing that within a week all this will be forgotten and we will have moved onto the next scandal/distraction.

This is a data privacy issue, and with the introduction of GDPR just around the corner in the EU (and its extra-territorial impact), this has come at a very bad time. While I would normally agree with you that Trump scandals blow over quickly, this one is going to fester.

Call me Al

Laois_Man wrote: »

I am a Data Scientist myself....and I know this stuff. The only point I made was this is nothing new. Facebook has been up to this type of thing for years before Trump ran for President - almost since their inception nearly 15 years ago! Not just for politicians/party's but for corporations too. Abusing people's personal data. If you try to invoke your data protection rights, they don't engage with you. You take them to court and they drag the case out for years and years until you are broke and have to give up....see Max Schrems

I see your point and I agree with it.
You're working in this field and see the whole story. Youre familiar with how this industry works.
But for the average Joe, this is quite likely an eye-opener and IS something new. They may do these personality (etc) quizzes and not read that small-print about access to their profile and that of their friends. They'll hit the button and allow their data be taken. And i say it's something new now assuming they can be bothered to read the articles and information that's now out there.

I'd love to think each of the 50m people will be notified by Facebook and told how their data and profile has been compromised and if data of their friends has been distributed as a result of this. This could make the consequences of the actions of CA and this Cambridge Uni professor more real for Facebook users and wake them up to see that they're the product being traded.

Mr.Micro

Big Brother is well and truly here. I wonder if the guy who invented the Internet is truly horrified as to how it's progressing. Since the early days of the net it has progressed to be dominated by global Government agencies and their proxies. Then big businesses dominate. Manipulation and control, inadvertently and covertly. Can we turn it off?

Water John

Tim Brenners Lee is horrified at this type of use of the internet. He would be all for open source and its positive use to improve peoples lives.

JohnFalstaff

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Big Brother is well and truly here. I wonder if the guy who invented the Internet is truly horrified as to how it's progressing. Since the early days of the net it has progressed to be dominated by global Government agencies and their proxies. Then big businesses dominate. Manipulation and control, inadvertently and covertly. Can we turn it off?

He has his concerns. Here's an extract from an open letter Tim Berners-Lee wrote this month on the occasion of the web's 29th birthday:

"The threats to the web today are real and many, including those that I described in my last letter — from misinformation and questionable political advertising to a loss of control over our personal data. But I remain committed to making sure the web is a free, open, creative space — for everyone.

The web that many connected to years ago is not what new users will find today. What was once a rich selection of blogs and websites has been compressed under the powerful weight of a few dominant platforms. This concentration of power creates a new set of gatekeepers, allowing a handful of platforms to control which ideas and opinions are seen and shared.

...What’s more, the fact that power is concentrated among so few companies has made it possible to weaponise the web at scale."


Full text of his letter is available here:
https://webfoundation.org/2018/03/web-birthday-29/

LeinsterDub

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Big Brother is well and truly here. I wonder if the guy who invented the Internet is truly horrified as to how it's progressing. Since the early days of the net it has progressed to be dominated by global Government agencies and their proxies. Then big businesses dominate. Manipulation and control, inadvertently and covertly. Can we turn it off?

Like all tools the internet is both be a positive and a negative. A knife in the hand of a tyrant can be used to control while the same knife in the hand of a chef can be used to create.

Itssoeasy

When is the channel4 piece on CA about trump being broadcast ?

LeinsterDub

Itssoeasy wrote: »

When is the channel4 piece on CA about trump being broadcast ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpbeOCKZFfQ

This?

dudara

Channel 4 News @ 19.00

mcmoustache

Laois_Man wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance
It’s probably really obvious
T_D?

By the way...both sides of the Brexit campaign were heavy in data analytics too
In fact I think CA themselves were involved in the leave campaign

I think it was your "Nothing to see" comment. It's been a common refrain from Trump supporters and he/she may have jumped the gun on that one.

The reason that this is big is that over a year ago, it was suspected that Russians were helping the Trump campaign. It was also suspected that this was coordinated with people within the campaign itself - due to the sophistication of the targeting and local knowledge required to send the fake news to the correct people. Collusion in other words.

Cambridge Analytica was suspected to have played a part and now they're under the spotlight. For example, if CA was working with the Russians, then there's a direct link between the Russians and the Trump campaign.

kilns

The US can really be a dispicable nations sometimes, currently Trump is in the White House celebrating a 12.5 bn sale of planes and weapons to the Saudis.
If they didnt have the cash they would mostly likely have invaded them too
Such a double standards country at times

aloyisious

UK Information Commissioner has got a court-issued warrant to search CA's UK offices and the Comm "kicked" FB out of the CA offices. I keyed in this sentence "cambridge analytica offices in uk" and several links came up. The top three have have the above details.

Edit... now I'm not sure whether the ref to FB apparently being in the CA offices is based on fact or if there's been a leap from fact to speculation in linkage between the 2 companies. If there was a FB presence in the CA UK offices the options for speculation are wide........ OK, it's true - FB auditors

https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawoollacott/2018/03/20/uk-data-watchdog-boots-facebook-out-of-cambridge-analyticas-offices/

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/20/uk-authorities-want-a-warrant-to-access-cambridge-analyticas-servers.html

Quin_Dub

And the ONLY headline on foxnews.com that's in any way related to the revelations around CA and Data Mining ???

Obama 2012 campaign 'sucked' data from Facebook, former official says

Fair and balanced though....

Itssoeasy

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/lie-detector-test-shows-stormy-daniels-truthful-about-trump-affair-n858281

So MSNBC are reporting that stormy Daniels took a polygraph test aka a lie dectector test in 2011 and passed on three questions. The article shows a picture of her claiming to be from a video taken during the test.

The person who did the test has provided a statement saying it's correct as of march 19th, 2018 and shows a previously confidential report.

I know Trump seems consumed by what he claims to be a witch hunt of a Russia investigation. But he might need to look at the family residence part of the White House as he may have problems there.

david75

How will all this affect the net neutrality thing? That’s still on the table right? Basically handing ownership of the internet to big communications corporations is insane.

Ludo

mcmoustache wrote: »

Cambridge Analytica was suspected to have played a part and now they're under the spotlight. For example, if CA was working with the Russians, then there's a direct link between the Russians and the Trump campaign.

Now that would be a game changer....is there a sign that there is a connection like this?

mcmoustache

Ludo wrote: »

Now that would be a game changer....is there a sign that there is a connection like this?

There are rumours and coincidences but nothing concrete.

The guy who created the app originally was a Russian who left the country for Singapore and changed his last name to Spectre. Cambridge Analytica reached out to wikileaks regarding the 33,000 emails that were supposedly obtained by the Russians.

Here's the CEO and the Russian Ambassador:



Like I said, nothing concrete but this is only getting started. I highly recommend taking 20 minutes to see part 1 which was posted yesterday.

Oh, yeah, there's much more info if you search for user demfad's posts mentioning cambridge analytica. He/she has posted a lot on this.

The second part is out, btw:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy-9iciNF1A

Ludo

I saw the report and read the posts (and a lot more also). Watching part 2 now. Still nothing that I can see which will stick IMHO. I wish there was, but nothing damaging compared to all the other crap around Trump.

pitifulgod

Ludo wrote: »

Now that would be a game changer....is there a sign that there is a connection like this?

I'd say there's a pretty good chance that Bannon is in serious trouble at the very least.

Leroy42

Serious as this is, I can't see it doing any damage to Trump. To easy for him to deny any involvement, and even if they have him on tape he will simply claim he was trying to sting them to get to HC e-mails since something something Obama.

The Stormy affair, IMO, is far more problematic for Trump. It is easier to understand for the general public, easier for the media to write about he has lied about it.

That seems to be the tipping point in many previous areas, politicians can get away with almost anything but getting called out on affairs is normally a no-no

20Cent

Stormy Daniels has photos of trumps dick according to her lawyer on msnbc. Dunno how much more scandal he can take though he does seem impervious to shame.

Professor Moriarty

20Cent wrote: »

Stormy Daniels has photos of trumps dick according to her lawyer on msnbc. Dunno how much more scandal he can take though he does seem impervious to shame.

Just an idle thought. How can she prove that it belongs to The Donald?

Loafing Oaf

Leroy42 wrote: »

That seems to be the tipping point in many previous areas, politicians can get away with almost anything but getting called out on affairs is normally a no-no

Well it's not like he never did anything like that before. I'm curious if he said (or implied) in his campaign that he might have got about a bit in his youth (and middle age tbf), he's been on the straight and narrow since he married Melania. Or did he just brush aside the whole thing?

Ludo

Another porn star sues to get out of NDA after affair with Trump...

link

Start of a trend? As Leroy42 said above, much more potential to be damaging as easily understood and makes good headlines.

Professor Moriarty

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Well it's not like he never did anything like that before. I'm curious if he said (or implied) in his campaign that he might have got about a bit in his youth (and middle age tbf), he's been on the straight and narrow since he married Melania. Or did he just brush aside the whole thing?

If it's proven that he had an affair with a porn star while his wife was pregnant and then caring for his baby, he's toast.