Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

Trent Houseboat

Pepefrogok wrote:

Ok but what did trump want from the Russians? What did the Russians supply him with?

I don't know. Surely that's the point of the investigation. Odd that you'd downplay and undermine an investigation that is asking the same questions as you are.

Pepefrogok

Trent Houseboat wrote: »

I don't know. Surely that's the point of the investigation. Odd that you'd downplay and undermine an investigation that is asking the same questions as you are.

Police call to your door...

Police: we are placing you under arrest for theft!
You: theft of what?
Police: we don't know, we hope our investigation will show up somthing.

Pepefrogok

B0jangles wrote: »

Hmm, will I argue honestly and in good faith with brand-new user 'Pepe frog OK', or will I assume they are just another of the 'I'm just asking questions, both candidates were awful, I would have voted for X' - brigade

?

(I'm sure the frog avatar is just because they really like frogs!)

Very of topic, just attacking the person instead of forming any argument.

everlast75

Pepefrogok wrote: »

Was that not already common knowledge

No

Leroy42

Pepefrogok wrote: »

Is there mabey a chance many people in here have got it wrong? Been so consumed by the media and it's obvious agenda?

Well what are your thoughts on it? Have you read behind the headlines (which I agree many are hyperbolic) and how have you come to the conclusion that it is all wrong?

What have you read that leads you to think that all the issues that have been brought up are baseless?

What are your thoughts on Trump Jr admitting to trying to collude with Russias, and that Trump happened to promise new information on HC soon after that very meeting?
What do you think of Bannon calling the meeting treasonous, and that the very least they should have done was call the FBI?
What so you think of Flynn admitting to lying to the FBI about meetings with the Russians and trying to strike a deal over sanctions?
What are your thoughts on Sessions lying under oath to congress about meeting with Russians?
What about the Popadopolous affair?
Based on the stated position of Trumps PR people (alternative facts, and that facts don't matter once the message gets out) why would you place any reliance on anything that is being said by either Trump (average of 5 lies a day) of the WH?
How can you explain why Eric Trump was claiming a few years ago that most of the Trump business related to Russia but now Trump claims that he never did any business in Russia?

If you can answer each of them in a consistent way that leads you to the point that the story is nothing but smoke and has no substance then that's fine, but many people take the view that one of the above is cause for concern, all of them together (and there is loads more that the likes of Demfad have far greater knowledge that I do, check out some of theirs posts) is more than just simple coincidence or bad luck.

Pelvis

Pepefrogok wrote: »

Police call to your door...

Police: we are placing you under arrest for theft!
You: theft of what?
Police: we don't know, we hope our investigation will show up somthing.

You've got that the wrong way round, the investigation happens first, then the arrests.

That's fairly basic stuff...

B0jangles

Pepefrogok wrote: »

Very of topic, just attacking the person instead of forming any argument.

Let me guess, you reported me for personal abuse, right? That's usually part of the game.

Pepefrogok

Pelvis wrote: »

You've got that the wrong way round, the investigation happens first, then the arrests.

That's fairly basic stuff...

Ok..
Police call at your door and request your presence at the station to help with there inquiry...

Police: please come with us to the station where you will be questioned.
You: what for?
Police: theft!
You: theft of what?
Police: don't know yet, that's what the inquiry is for!

Trent Houseboat

Pepefrogok wrote:

Police call to your door...

Police: we are placing you under arrest for theft!
You: theft of what?
Police: we don't know, we hope our investigation will show up somthing.

Wait, do you think Trump has been arrested? What are you talking about?

Leroy42

Pepefrogok wrote: »

Ok..
Police call at your door and request your presence at the station to help with there inquiry...

Police: please come with us to the station where you will be questioned.
You: what for?
Police: theft!
You: theft of what?
Police: don't know yet, that's what the inquiry is for!

Bu they already know that DNC was hacked, so there is your theft. They already know that Trump Jr and others met with Russians claiming to be from the Russian government to get information on HC. They already know that the next day Trump claimed 30k e-mails had been deleted (how did he know this?) and asked that the Russians find them (thus knowing that had been part of the hack).

You seem to be very clear on some of the facts, so why come on asking what is going on? Why not put forward your basis for disputing the theory of Russia collusion rather than just call it crazy and a media led obsession.

How have you been able to deal with the many links that Russia that Trump and those around him have had and tried to hide from the public?

Water John

Really, the other way around. Trump was already compromised by the dodgy dealings, money being washed by buying apartments from Trump, keeping him afloat.

Interesting article here on Papadopolous girlfriend. She says, he was a big deal in the Trump camp.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/18/simona-mangiante-trump-russia-joseph-mifsud-george-papadopoulos

Shea also worked briefly for the shady professor.
BTW she worked for Mairead MCGuinneiss for a time in the EU Parliament. Small world.

Call me Al

Pepefrogok wrote: »

Police call to your door...

Police: we are placing you under arrest for theft!
You: theft of what?
Police: we don't know, we hope our investigation will show up somthing.

That isn't comparable. Trump himself hasn't been arrested. The investigation wouldn't be happening unless there was a legitimate reason to do so. And if you maybe read some of the publicly available Senate intelligence committee transcripts or reporting then you would see rhat there are definitely questions to be asked.

Unless you're being purposely obtuse. Or just acting the maggot.

Christy42

Pepefrogok wrote: »

Trent Houseboat wrote: »

I don't think people here are putting forward the narritive that Russia made millions of Americans vote for Donaly Trump. Can you quote anybody on this?
There is evidence to suggest that the Trump campaign colluded or sought to collude with Russia during the campaign and or transition. That is being investigated.
Do you not think such matters should be investigated?

You don't seem flippant or sarcastic, but you do seem to be dismissive or at best misinformed as to what is being investigates.

Ok but what did trump want from the Russians? What did the Russians supply him with?

Info on Hillary and propoganda is what it feels like the investigation is focused on.

A bigger issue is if there was something promised in return. Trump Jr. discussed sanctions with the Russians remember and Trump tried to get rid of them purely on the basis of nothing and Congress went to great lengths to ensure Trump would difficulty undoing new ones (and that was Republican controlled).

Peregrinus

Pepe is displaying the same behaviour displayed during the Watergate enquiries by millions of Americans. Right up until the day he resigned, Nixon enjoyed approval support among Republican voters. They were simply too heavily emotionally invested in him, and in their party allegiance, to be open to accepting the import of the facts.

Pepe will not change his views unless and until Trump resigns or is impeached. Possibly not even then.

Professor Moriarty

In other news, John Kelly has stated that Trump's thinking on the wall has "evolved" and that Trump accepted that the wall didn't need to be built in many areas and that the Mexicans won't pay for it. Trump now tweeting that his thinking hasn't evolved or changed. So this is the first real public spat between Kelly and Trump. If Kelly, who was installed to bring order to bedlam, goes the way of Bannon and others, then the White House will become a madhouse again. Great.

Leroy42

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

In other news, John Kelly has stated that Trump's thinking on the wall has "evolved" and that Trump accepted that the wall didn't need to be built in many areas and that the Mexicans won't pay for it. Trump now tweeting that his thinking hasn't evolved or changed. So this is the first real public spat between Kelly and Trump. If Kelly, who was installed to bring order to bedlam, goes the way of Bannon and others, then the White House will become a madhouse again. Great.

Whats funny is that we know that Trump has changed. They have accepted that naturtal barriers mean a wall isn't needed everywhere. That in some places CCTV, extra border security etc will be better suited.

And his latest pronouncement on payment was to say that Mexico will pay "in some form". Nobody is ure if guitarróns mexicanos will form part of this payment!

Professor Moriarty

Leroy42 wrote: »

Whats funny is that we know that Trump has changed. They have accepted that naturtal barriers mean a wall isn't needed everywhere. That in some places CCTV, extra border security etc will be better suited.

And his latest pronouncement on payment was to say that Mexico will pay "in some form". Nobody is ure if guitarróns mexicanos will form part of this payment!

I wonder does he know that, for years, more Mexicans are leaving the US than are entering the US? Or is that an alternative fact?

spacecoyote

Leroy42 wrote: »

Whats funny is that we know that Trump has changed. They have accepted that naturtal barriers mean a wall isn't needed everywhere. That in some places CCTV, extra border security etc will be better suited.

And his latest pronouncement on payment was to say that Mexico will pay "in some form". Nobody is ure if guitarróns mexicanos will form part of this payment!

I think in essence he was implying that under a renegotiated Nafta he'll somehow manage to sneak it through. Sounds like more clutching at straws from over promising his base

demfad

Interesting take from Maddow on Bannon's recent testimony.

Manafort testified unexpectedly in July to Senate Intel. Mueller obtained a warrant that day and issues a no warring raid that night on his home.
Manafort called off any further congressional inquiry appearances.

Mueller wants the first crack at evidence that can be used in his criminal investigation. That is why Bannon was subpoenaed by Mueller.

That is why the GOPs in the House Intel were so eager to demand testimony from Bannon. They want to know what he knows and what he will say. That way the WH knows what they are up against. Trump lackey Nunes signed their subpoena.
In all other cases they had no interest in challenging witnesses who stonewall or even in finding out about the Russia stuff.

Water John

Something, doesn't have to happen in Trumpworld. All that needs to happen is for his base, to believe something is happening.

Leroy42

One thing that is always forgotten during these, fairly recurring, episodes of WH person saying one thing and Trump coming out later to dismiss it, is where is the leadership?

How did Kelly get to the point where he believed what he said was in line with Trump? It is a fairly stark difference, but unlike two mates in a pub, Kelly works for and at the time was speaking on behalf of, POTUS.

If his inner circle can't even understand his position, then how is anybody else. How can SHS, for example, come out and make any statement about what POTUS thinks when it is clear that, either she can't, of that Kelly is terrible at the job.

As CoS, Kelly is basically POTUS enforcer. POTUS cannot meet with everyone, so CoS is there to get people in line with what the POTUS wants or needs. This latest episode throws Kelly completely under the bus and makes him look incompetent.

The WH will come out and try to argue that what Kelly said is not inconsistent with Trump, but it clearly is at least in spirit.

Overheal

Pepefrogok wrote: »

Police call to your door...

Police: we are placing you under arrest for theft!
You: theft of what?
Police: we don't know, we hope our investigation will show up somthing.

Now you're just being terribly facetious and impudent. Police still investigate crimes, in the process of doing so they do knock on doors, they ask questions, they perform searches via warrants, etc. and that's what this investigation is. Your poorly drawn example here is void of much thoughtful consideration of the job of law enforcement.

It is a red herring of the Alt-Right and the fake news that "The left think Russians *hacked* the election." There is no evidence suggesting voting systems were hacked, that I'm aware of. That's not the point of the investigation. The Russians need not have actually made good on their end of any collusion (which *is* the impetus of the investigation), it would be sufficient to prove that Trump and campaign affiliates, like his sons, colluded with a foreign power (an opposed one, at that) to either get dirt on the DNC (such as by hacking the DNC) or by staging a coordinated fake news campaign, which US Intelligence agencies (and even Facebook) confirmed happened during the election; while it is impossible to quantify how much this swayed popular opinion toward Trump or away from Hillary, we know with some degree of certainty how many Americans were exposed to this fake news, which similar to a PAC ad campaign, is material assistance to the Trump campaign.

This isn't about whether Russia tried to help Trump win (they did), the investigation is about how much the Trump campaign was involved in it.

Meanwhile the alt-right's defense of Russia is both dubious and baffling: on one hand, 'Russia is great and we should be friends' but on the other, 'Russia was sold Uranium by Hillary and this is a huge national security issue' - but if the latter is true, why is the alt-right not at all concerned with the deafening silence on imposing Russian sanctions?

demfad

http://uk.businessinsider.com/read-fusion-gps-glenn-simpson-interview-with-house-intelligence-committee-2018-1?r=US&IR=T

This is a testimony from Glenn Simpson, the cofounder of the opposition research firm Fusion GPS, in his House INtel hearing intp Trump Russia released yesterday.

This is a credible source for serious crimes being committed in this State by Donald Trump and Russian mafia.
I will be reporting these allegations to the Gardai. I think every citizen should.
If anyone has connections with media please let them know.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Please don't just dump videos here. Post deleted.

Tell me how

demfad wrote:

I will be reporting these allegations to the Gardai.

Do it by email. Don't waste the price of a call.

Tell us how you get on please.

Leroy42

Just 39 percent of Americans approve of the job President Donald Trump is doing in office, a new NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll released Friday shows, the latest in a string of surveys showing Trump with historically low poll numbers one year into his first term.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/19/poll-trump-approval-rating-2018-349306

That in itself is pretty poor, but even more so when you consider that Trump has been selling the message that the stock-market is historically high, unemployment is historically low, massive tax cut has just been passed. When you look at what he has managed to get done, most of it relates to conservative issues, and they would already be within his numbers.

If you are a political strategist it is difficult to know what more he can do to get a higher rating. Things like continued economic growth could do it, but there are significant risks out there and as such it can't be banked on.

StringerBell

39% is a slight recovery no?

Itssoeasy

It looks like the us government will shutdown at 12:00am(5:00am Irish time) tonight. A continuing resolution needs 60 votes in the senate and it appears the GOP can't even get its own 51 senators to back it. That's woeful leadership
from the party in the majority of all branches of government.

pixelburp

I'm curious, and possibly a little naive / ignorant: is the US the only major Western democracy whose government is 'shut down' during political impasses? Obviously over here in the EU, it's not uncommon for governments to collapse, through no-confidence motions & the like - but I don't get the impression that it literally shuts down public services (which I believe happens during these US shutdowns, right? Anything state-run just shuts its doors). Seems like a remarkably arbitrary and apocalyptic civil response that now passes for normalcy over there...

demfad

demfad wrote: »

http://uk.businessinsider.com/read-fusion-gps-glenn-simpson-interview-with-house-intelligence-committee-2018-1?r=US&IR=T

This is a testimony from Glenn Simpson, the cofounder of the opposition research firm Fusion GPS, in his House INtel hearing intp Trump Russia released yesterday.

This is a credible source for serious crimes being committed in this State by Donald Trump and Russian mafia.
I will be reporting these allegations to the Gardai. I think every citizen should.
If anyone has connections with media please let them know.

Doonbeg is a sitting duck.
From a google or two.
Company registered in Dublin as Trump Global Hotels Limited during transition.
Name change on 7/6 to BL International Hotels Limited
To disguise release of accounts a couple of weeks later on 22/6.



Also, the Irish Times and others have naively reported Trumps valuations of Doonbeg as 'small potatoes' with profilts + or - $5 million. You dont look at profits for laundering you look at income and expenditure.
Massive amounts of laundered money in: massive amounts of clean money out
(make sure to leave normal looking profit/loss.
Also dont check accounts of one company: check accounts of all companies in Trumps laundering company shell nest: