Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

david75

Think it was lemmy said we should build a stadium around it and sell tickets watching them kill each other.
They’re doing it anyway.

aloyisious

I am lolling at the image of Don doing what Stormy has said he did after she told him "I should swat you" with a magazine she said he had.... If one believes her story, or give it any degree of credibility, it certainly blows whatever anyone else might have had on Don as a controlling weapon out of the water. Just imagine any international talks on nuclear weapons disarming, what would be running through the mind of the O/P at the table with regard to credibility.....

rossie1977

recedite wrote: »

Loads of people have been killed in the EU by terrorist knife attacks, hatchet attacks, bomb attacks, lorry attacks.

The worst ever attack was 9/11 in the US; airplane attacks. They regularly foil attempts at mass killing not involving guns.

3,043 Americans were killed by acts of terrorism on us soil between 2001 and 2014 (includes 9/11).

534,000 Americans were killed by guns between 1999 and 2015 on us soil.

So yeah not really comparable.

aloyisious

recedite wrote: »

He probably didn't say the US developed it first though?
A Russian involved in the lab creating the formula (Mirzayanov) went to live in the US and leaked what he knew. Also the testing ground was in Uzbekistan which became independent of the USSR in 1991 and US personnel then took over the site under the Nunn-Lugar program
Its thought that several countries have developed stockpiles, including Iran.

Your question is so open-ended it's unanswerable, if it was actually a question and not a statement in the 1st place. Who is the HE?

Secondly I can't imagine the Russians investing in the lab and testing ground you mentioned built for the formulation and testing of warfare agent products in another country [Uzbekistan] without getting some return on it.

Your thoughts on what other countries are stockpiling is very interesting.

Doltanian

david75 wrote: »

1.2 million gun deaths since John Lennon was shot in New York.

America has a cancer.

One million two hundred thousand people. Insanity.

1.2 million over the last 38 years out of a population of 320 million. Gang members killing each other isn’t exactly a huge loss either, and the figures are not so disproportionately large compared to population size. Guns have saved countless lives as the criminal will always find a weapon but a disarmed civilian is no match then.

The very fact that gun ownership in America is big is for protection from criminals and to keep a LeftWing Democratic run Federal Government from seizing complete power. Since Trump got elected Gun Sales have collapsed, whereas under Obama sales Rocketed. The Democrats are seen as anti-American or more precisely anti-White American in the eyes of their critics.

Race plays a massive part much more than is portrayed and America won’t be getting rid of their guns it is built into their culture.

Really Interested

Doltanian wrote: »

1.2 million over the last 38 years out of a population of 320 million. Gang members killing each other isn’t exactly a huge loss either, and the figures are not so disproportionately large compared to population size. Guns have saved countless lives as the criminal will always find a weapon but a disarmed civilian is no match then.

The very fact that gun ownership in America is big is for protection from criminals and to keep a LeftWing Democratic run Federal Government from seizing complete power. Since Trump got elected Gun Sales have collapsed, whereas under Obama sales Rocketed. The Democrats are seen as anti-American or more precisely anti-White American in the eyes of their critics.

Race plays a massive part much more than is portrayed and America won’t be getting rid of their guns it is built into their culture.

So the about 40% of white Americans who voted Hilary are anti American and anti-white?

In relation to your claim of gun sales slum can you provide evidence as this https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/2017-is-second-biggest-year-for-gun-sales-ever-might-top-2016

Says “In a welcome surprise for the arms industry, 2017 is on a pace to easily be the second biggest for gun sales ever, and could beat last year's record.”

According to that Trumps first year was on target to be second best year ever!

BabyCheeses

Doltanian wrote: »

1.2 million over the last 38 years out of a population of 320 million. Gang members killing each other isn’t exactly a huge loss either, and the figures are not so disproportionately large compared to population size. Guns have saved countless lives as the criminal will always find a weapon but a disarmed civilian is no match then.

The very fact that gun ownership in America is big is for protection from criminals and to keep a LeftWing Democratic run Federal Government from seizing complete power. Since Trump got elected Gun Sales have collapsed, whereas under Obama sales Rocketed. The Democrats are seen as anti-American or more precisely anti-White American in the eyes of their critics.

Race plays a massive part much more than is portrayed and America won’t be getting rid of their guns it is built into their culture.

You make gun owners sound like terrorists.

StringerBell

That stormy Daniels interview was pretty much a waste of time. Will do nothing but embolden his base to batten down the hatches and ride out the latest media frenzy.

I have no time for Trump but giving her the air time like that to pretty much say nothing we didn't already know as if it was some big thing is playing into his hands I feel.

Nothing to touch him, nothing he can't twist and fling back at the "fake news media" and their "witch-hunt" looking for cheap ratings boosts. I wasnt expecting much so I wouldn't say I'm disappointed but I am disappointed in that the media don't seem to be learning anything as they go on in terms of trump coverage

ECO_Mental

StringerBell wrote: »

That stormy Daniels interview was pretty much a waste of time. Will do nothing but embolden his base to batten down the hatches and ride out the latest media frenzy.

I have no time for Trump but giving her the air time like that to pretty much say nothing we didn't already know as if it was some big thing is playing into his hands I feel.

Nothing to touch him, nothing he can't twist and fling back at the "fake news media" and their "witch-hunt" looking for cheap ratings boosts. I wasnt expecting much so I wouldn't say I'm disappointed but I am disappointed in that the media don't seem to be learning anything as they go on in terms of trump coverage

This is the big issue right here........in any normal universe this is major major news. The MSM are not over selling it you are just desensitized with the amount of scandals that are already out there with this idiot.

Let's step back for a minute and review what the President of America has done in this scandal alone.

We have evidence that the POTUS ****ed a pornstar while cheating not only on his wife who had just given birth to their son but he also cheated on the playboy model he was ****ing on the side olso:rolleyes::eek: He then gets his goons to threaten said pornstar into keeping her mouth shut. There is also strong indications that he broke US campaign laws in paying Stormy to keep her mouth shut just to top it all off.

In any other year this would be the story of the year if not the decade and would bring down any other President. It just along with the numerous of other scandals(literally too many to list off here but mainly collusion with a hostile power) that this so called President is up to his neck in this is lost in the noise.

jooksavage

Dont know if anything on 60 Minutes is going to do that much harm to Trump. Depends how far the threat apsect of the story goes. I dont think theres enough there to trouble the Base. In hindsight the GTBTP footage might actually be helping Trump - it was kind of like a vaccine for his supporters, arming them with an immunity for any futute scandals.

jooksavage

recedite wrote: »

How many americans died in road accidents? Don't answer that, I'm not really interested in arguing over stats.

I was just pointing out that the suggestion that in countries with strict gun controls, terrorists can be defeated by kids armed with schoolbags, does not hold up.

A 5 sec Google sesrch would have told you that 1.3m people die annually on US roads. Not sure what point youre making. More people die in cars so lets fix that before we start on the guns? Or is it that 33k annual gun deaths seems statistically insignificant in the larger scheme of things?

If you bring the line of thinking against gun control over to road safety, its like arguing against the bureaucracy of permits, seatbelts, and price-inflating safety measures in the car on the basis that 1 million will still die.

I know you're not interested in statistics - sorry - but statistically European children are FAR less likely to be seriusly injured or killed in their schools than their US counterparts. Folks in the UK still talk about the Dunblane massacre - that was 20 years ago, an indication of just how rare something like that actually is.

Still no word from Trump on the marches. Hanging out at a golf resort in Florida the same weekend though. Wow. Tone deaf.

Ludo

Doltanian wrote: »

criminal will always find a weapon but a disarmed civilian is no match then.

The very fact that gun ownership in America is big is for protection from criminals

That is actually a BS argument. Most criminals WON'T find guns if the country isn't awash with them. And they won't feel they need them also. Most "ordinary criminals" (burglars and the like) here are not armed. Probably because they are just scum bags and don't have the proper criminal contacts to acquire them. Yes large underworld gangs do indeed have guns here but for the most part they don't interact with Joe Soap on the street. And even if they did, having a gun of your own would only end up in you getting killed rather than a beating.

As for giving protection from government take over...gawd give me patience.

jooksavage

Doltanian wrote: »

1.2 million over the last 38 years out of a population of 320 million. Gang members killing each other isn’t exactly a huge loss either, and the figures are not so disproportionately large compared to population size. Guns have saved countless lives as the criminal will always find a weapon but a disarmed civilian is no match then.

The very fact that gun ownership in America is big is for protection from criminals and to keep a LeftWing Democratic run Federal Government from seizing complete power. Since Trump got elected Gun Sales have collapsed, whereas under Obama sales Rocketed. The Democrats are seen as anti-American or more precisely anti-White American in the eyes of their critics.

Race plays a massive part much more than is portrayed and America won’t be getting rid of their guns it is built into their culture.

There's a study from the Harvard Medical School that debunks the gun-as-a-deterrent argument. According to https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26091930/ states with "higher levels of firearm ownership have an increased risk for violent crimes perpetrated with a firearm". But hey, its only a peer-reviwed study.

The notion that private gun owners are standing in the way of some kind of Maoist takeover is insane. Its as paranoid as it is deluded and it actually highlights one of the inconsistencies on the pro-gun sides argument: why stop at automatic weapons? Why cant private citizens own anti-aircraft weapons or be able to build the Bomb? Why dont these fall under the right to keep and bear arms? At some point the arbitrary line was drawn. It can be drawn again.

Mark Henderson

People still aren't getting it are they. It doesn't matter what he has done. American's didn't vote him in because he's a decent human being they voted him in to fix the economy and the many various issues facing the US and the world.

It's incredible the penny hasn't dropped on this yet with the media.

VinLieger

Mark Henderson wrote: »

People still aren't getting it are they. It doesn't matter what he has done. American's didn't vote him in because he's a decent human being they voted him in to fix the economy and the many various issues facing the US and the world.

It's incredible the penny hasn't dropped on this yet with the media.

LOL and a trade war will do that?

The US economy was on an upward trend halfway through Obama's 2nd term and job numbers were recovering. There's ample evidence the vast majority of the tax breaks trump and his ilk passed just went straight into corporate americas pockets and the average worker will never see a cent.

I can't wait to see what happens to all that progress when the EU and China enact their responses to Trump's tariff's, im sure people like you will still blame everyone else and ignore the fact that Trump was the one who started the trade war under his complete misunderstanding of how international trade works.

Peregrinus

Mark Henderson wrote: »

People still aren't getting it are they. It doesn't matter what he has done. American's didn't vote him in because he's a decent human being they voted him in to fix the economy and the many various issues facing the US and the world.

It's incredible the penny hasn't dropped on this yet with the media.

Well, there's two immediate objections to this view.

The first is, if you were looking for someone to "fix the economy and the many various issues facing the US and the world", Trump is not somebody who would seem qualified by experience, training or achievements to date. If your concern is getting problems solved effectively, Trump is probably the last person you would think to pick. Whatever reason you might have for voting for Trump, this is frankly unlikely to be it. So the claim that this is why he was elected doesn't look very plausible. It's certainly not something we would lightly accept; we'd need some kind of compelling evidence or cogent argument.

The second objection is that, regardless of their reasons for voting for a particular president, in the past the American people have expected their presidents to meet, or at least be perceived to meet, certain standards as regards decency, integrity, character, etc, and presidents who have been seen to fail in this regard have paid a political price, regardless of their policy and/or legislative successes. Why would we think that Trump would not pay such a price?

rossie1977

Doltanian wrote: »

1.2 million over the last 38 years out of a population of 320 million. Gang members killing each other isn’t exactly a huge loss either, and the figures are not so disproportionately large compared to population size. Guns have saved countless lives as the criminal will always find a weapon but a disarmed civilian is no match then.

The very fact that gun ownership in America is big is for protection from criminals and to keep a LeftWing Democratic run Federal Government from seizing complete power. Since Trump got elected Gun Sales have collapsed, whereas under Obama sales Rocketed. The Democrats are seen as anti-American or more precisely anti-White American in the eyes of their critics.

Race plays a massive part much more than is portrayed and America won’t be getting rid of their guns it is built into their culture.

Just 3% of Americans own 50% of all guns in America (on average 17 guns each) so the argument that guns are used for protection or from tyrannical government is very weak. The majority of people own guns because its a hobby and because its cool.

America haven't voted in a left wing government ever so why would they worry about them seizing complete power...it was far right parties that seized complete control of major western nations like Germany, Italy and Spain last century.

I do laugh that those on the right worry about tyrannical government yet treat Republican presidents like demi-gods allowing them to do whatever they want!!

Mark Henderson wrote: »

People still aren't getting it are they. It doesn't matter what he has done. American's didn't vote him in because he's a decent human being they voted him in to fix the economy and the many various issues facing the US and the world.

It's incredible the penny hasn't dropped on this yet with the media.

The us had experienced 75 consecutive months of job growth under Obama. The answer to 'fixing the economy' is voting in a guy who had no political experience who inherited wealth from his dad, has been bankrupt multiple times and saw his company lose over $1 billion in one year alone.

What voter decides to vote a vain tv celebrity with narcissistic tendencies to deal with world issues. Trump had spent eight years claiming Obama wasn't born in America and longer than that involved in a spat with Rosie O'Donnell so those that voted Trump decide he is the right guy to move forward with the complex issues.

Leroy42

Doltanian wrote: »

The very fact that gun ownership in America is big is for protection from criminals

Oh great, facts.

Care to give us a link to these please?

You do know that crime rates in the US are roughly in line with the rest of the world. So the presence of guns isn't stopping crime from happening, so you position is that when those crimes happen, there would be far more deaths only for the presence of a gun on the victim.

pixelburp

Mark Henderson wrote: »

People still aren't getting it are they. It doesn't matter what he has done. American's didn't vote him in because he's a decent human being they voted him in to fix the economy and the many various issues facing the US and the world.

It's incredible the penny hasn't dropped on this yet with the media.

And of these world issues, how do you square this belief with the fact the State Department remains gutted and (presumably) impotent, while various embassies / ambassadorial positions are still empty? Or the frankly ludicrous belief that Mexico would pay for a wall along its border with the US? The State department exists precisely to leverage influence and to 'fix' any problems that America comes up against - Roosevelt's famous 'soft power' - yet Trump is letting it rot on the vine.

You know, I do agree with what you're saying though: Trump was voted in because a lot of people got suckered into his big talk and showmanship (albeit ignoring the facts of his past business failures such as my own hobbyhorse, Trump Steaks), while he ran against a Democratic candidate who was broadly disliked and seen as the 'establishment'.

Leaving aside the persistent rumour that Trump didn't even WANT to win (lets never forget that his Election Team had zero transition plans drawn up in the event he won - his team literally had no plan for what they'd do if he beat Clinton), his tenure has been one incompetency after another, with no demonstrable change in Americans' lives, beyond arguably losing more comforts by way of the ACA being constantly attacked and the new tax bands hurting demographics. As for the world view, well between his refusal to sign any political responses to the Russian interference with the election, his comical interactions with other nations' leaders, and the fact that America's strongest allies openly admitted (by way of Angela Merkel) they can no longer rely on the friendship of the US anymore - how much 'fixing' has been done so far?

Loafing Oaf

ECO_Mental wrote: »

We have evidence that the POTUS ****ed a pornstar while cheating not only on his wife who had just given birth to their son but he also cheated on the playboy model he was ****ing on the side olso:rolleyes::eek:

Who would ever have believed Donald Trump would get up to such things? I'm sure most of his supporters will be astonished and appalled...

everlast75

I understand there were people who were disappointed with the interview last night.

I'm not sure what they were expecting tbh. Perhaps pics or video of the deed, I don't know. Frankly, on that front, I was relieved!

What I took from it and what is the fallout so far;

1) She presented her story well and was credible
2) Her story is now known across the US and beyond (I would love to know the ratings)
3) She alleged intimidation of her and her daughter
4) This prompted a letter from Cohen's lawyer who both said he didn't know who the individual who threatened her was, but then went on to say he doubted it happened - which is it?
5) Avenetti doubled down and says Cohen will pay for the intimidation
6) She claims she could identify the man too
7) She claimed they had unprotected sex, as was claimed by Ms. McDougal
8) There was no injunction brought to stop the broadcast
9) There has been no formal denial of the events of his affair with her
10) Trump summoned Cohen on Sat night to talk to him
11) the White House has cleared today's events completely
12) Melania is staying 1000 miles away from him for the entire week
13) Avenetti says this is just the beginning (i love the "death by a thousand cuts approach taken by him)


I agree with the post above, which said that we are all a little desensitized at this stage concerning Trump at this stage, but to look at the interview in light of the above, it is extraordinary

Ludo

everlast75 wrote: »

SNIP

I agree with the post above, which said that we are all a little desensitized at this stage concerning Trump at this stage, but to look at the interview in light of the above, it is extraordinary

Any other president at ANY other time...yes, extraordinary and end of his presidency. Trump presidency...what's next?

check_six

jooksavage wrote: »

A 5 sec Google sesrch would have told you that 1.3m people die annually on US roads.

Don't wish to derail thread, but this looks a bit high. I'd guess that that figure is more like a 30-40 year total than an annual one.

rossie1977

It's about 35,000 road deaths in the us annually. Still stupidly high and not enough time, effort, money or coverage is dedicated to it while terriorism at home and in Europe gets wall to wall coverage on TV for days on end when it happens and billions is spent on the 'war against terror'.

Many on the right are against regulation and for free market so in that situation car companies won't have to worry about safety..

Christy42

check_six wrote: »

Don't wish to derail thread, but this looks a bit high. I'd guess that that figure is more like a 30-40 year total than an annual one.

Indeed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year
The actual figure seems to be slightly shy of 40,000 (and is decreasing as it was higher, especially death per miles traveller statistics so something seems to be helping here - hopefully that cab continue).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States
This is only slightly higher than death by gun at about 33,000. About 2/3s of them are by suicide though. Having said that having guns lying around seems to increase the suicide rate by men which is a large issue these days (potentially due to their effectiveness vs other methods).

There seems to be broadly similar numbers for both but obvious vehicles bring a lot more to the economy and peoples standard of living than guns.

ancapailldorcha

recedite wrote: »

What they should really do is form a special military unit consisting of transgenderists, women, the disabled, the marginalised etc.. and in the spirit of equal opportunity send them out to fight the Taliban.

Then when they are all dead, send out a marine corps unit comprised of extremely fit and aggressive red blooded young males, to see off the Taliban and retrieve the bodies of their colleagues.

That should make things a bit plainer. Lethality is what counts in a combat situation; its the ultimate "survival of the fittest" scenario, with no room whatsoever for political correctness.

Banned for 2 weeks.

aloyisious

Mark Henderson wrote: »

People still aren't getting it are they. It doesn't matter what he has done. American's didn't vote him in because he's a decent human being they voted him in to fix the economy and the many various issues facing the US and the world.

It's incredible the penny hasn't dropped on this yet with the media.

I'd say they voted him in because he was different, wasn't an insider and seen as a good buddy type by the people who voted him in as they had no idea of what they were buying. Sure they'll probably vote for him again for the same reason plus [in their eyes] he must be good as he's being bashed by the Washington set.

The fact that he hasn't done what he promised the voters is because he's crap at deal making except on his terms alone. He refuses to accept you've got to give the person you're trading with something of value to walk away with. Some day the voters will wake up and realise that Don decided before day 1 that he was going to screw them over and lied to their faces. He had no intention of doing what they thought, fixing their world to the way they desired, rather to a world built in his image.

As for the media, I reckon to a greater degree, it's come down to a no holds barred fight between them and Don now, due to his B/S and lies. Sure the media have made it personal now, but that's down to Don's personal touch "everyone is lying except me" and his way of abusing everyone he meets.

robinph

In a tweet from yesterday where he was also claiming that despite lawyers saying no to him that really lawyers were queuing up to represent him, he then had a go at lawyers charging too much which I'm sure is a great way to make them want to represent you. But he then goes and claims that lawyers charging him too much is unfair on the country.

Now what is the USA doing paying for the private lawyer fees for defending DD against PP?

everlast75

robinph wrote: »

In a tweet from yesterday where he was also claiming that despite lawyers saying no to him that really lawyers were queuing up to represent him, he then had a go at lawyers charging too much which I'm sure is a great way to make them want to represent you. But he then goes and claims that lawyers charging him too much is unfair on the country.

Now what is the USA doing paying for the private lawyer fees for defending DD against PP?

Good lawyers won't represent him for two reasons;
1) His case is like a clown car on fire
2) He doesn't pay people for working for him. He has a bad reputation in that regard.
3) and to a lesser degree I'd imagine some because they simply don't like him

So what he is left with is psuedo-lawyers who are fame hungry and not that good at their job. Have you seen the cease and desist letter sent from Cohen's lawyer? Awful.

Doltanian

I don't know if people realise but having affairs with pornstars and playboy models is actually something that will appeal to a large cohort of American males, they won't acknowledge it in public but secretly inside they are like.... Niiice.

Americans are not not begruding self-hating masochists like so many Irish people, Americans praise and salute the pursuit of greatness and wealth, here Irish people would rather stab you in the back to drag you down back into the gutter where you should belong in their viewpoint. Trump is an Alpha Male, with power, money and he exudes confidence, his social and economic policies are spot-on and he is actually the anti-christ to anyone who is a liberal leftwing beta-male feminist type.