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Insurance doubled for no reason

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  • 13-01-2018 12:43pm
    #1
    sellasheep
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 231 ✭✭


    I'm driving almost 12 years on a full Irish license, 11 years no claims bonus. No penalty points, full clean record. My car is a 1.8 TDCI Ford Mondeo 2007 valued at 1500. I am 29 years old. Despite this Axa quoted me €1373 and Liberty €1138 on TPFT. My insurance last year was €630 (same car) and €600 the year before. I do 15000km a year and work part time in an office.

    Does anyone know why they're trying to get up and ride me effectively and what can I do to get it down?


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    #2
    cajonlardo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭cajonlardo


    sellasheep wrote: »
    I'm driving almost 12 years on a full Irish license, 11 years no claims bonus. No penalty points, full clean record. My car is a 1.8 TDCI Ford Mondeo 2007 valued at 1500. I am 29 years old. Despite this Axa quoted me €1373 and Liberty €1138 on TPFT. My insurance last year was €630 (same car) and €600 the year before. I do 15000km a year and work part time in an office.

    Does anyone know why they're trying to get up and ride me effectively and what can I do to get it down?

    You probably already know this but you need to get in the phone and spend time getting more quotes.

    I'm 55. My insurance almost doubled last year. I got on the phone and managed to save several hundred by phoning around. My 25 y.o son just saved 700 by phoning around on his first ever quote. Problem is most people give up on phone after getting a couple of quotes that are in the same ball park. Also, if the call centre ask who you got quotes from previously don't tell them.
    Other than that, you can get a rough idea by filling in quick quote option on price comparison site like chill or quote devil but follow it up with a call and then decide if the online discount or call centre is cheaper


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    #3
    Sue Pa Key Pa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭Sue Pa Key Pa


    sellasheep wrote: »
    Does anyone know why they're trying to get up and ride me effectively and what can I do to get it down?

    Your insurers have decided that they no longer want to be competitive for your profile (nothing personal) and have priced your renewal hoping you will go elsewhere.


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    #4
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 82,785 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    They likely don't want to cover 12 year old cars again and are removing them from their book by doubling quotes. You might find putting in a similarly engined 2014 car worth 10 times the amount of your car actually gives less much of a quote...sense it does not make.

    Try 123 and FBD for quotes, spend a few hours looking around.


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    #5
    Swamp3
    Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭Swamp3


    Your car is over 10 years old. They've jacked up the price of your insurance. Try an online quote with your details and a 2011 version of your car.


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    #6
    DaveyDave
    Registered Users Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭DaveyDave


    Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »
    Your insurers have decided that they no longer want to be competitive for your profile (nothing personal) and have priced your renewal hoping you will go elsewhere.

    It seems like a lot of insurers are doing this lately though, it's not just down to age either? Two people I know renewing got stupid quotes, rang elsewhere and got quotes cheaper than the previous year. 5 years+ NCB, no points, one mid-20s another early 50s. Neither car is 10 years old. Are they really making that much money they can just tell their customers to feck off?


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    #7
    Sue Pa Key Pa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭Sue Pa Key Pa


    DaveyDave wrote: »
    Are they really making that much money they can just tell their customers to feck off?

    The trick is to try and get rid of the business they are losing the most money on, or they will go out of business. If insurers thought they could make €1 profit out of you, they would do everything to make you stay


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    #8
    corcaigh1
    Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭corcaigh1


    Swamp3 wrote: »
    Your car is over 10 years old. They've jacked up the price of your insurance. Try an online quote with your details and a 2011 version of your car.

    Absolutely ridiculous insurance companies are getting away with this...


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    #9
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,620 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »
    The trick is to try and get rid of the business they are losing the most money on, or they will go out of business. If insurers thought they could make €1 profit out of you, they would do everything to make you stay

    I am certainly no expert, but I don't see the problem with this guys profile.
    I think the issue is that insurance companies are trying too hard to predict the future and minimise the amount of claims, so they start to look for correlation in smaller and smaller details, such as is he wearing red socks, is he a Sagittarius, does he eat a banana on Tuesday or does he like to watch TV with his slippers on.
    Based on that, experienced drivers with years and years of no claims suddenly are priced out of the market with ludicrous quotes, because there is a 3% increased chance they might have a crash according to their astrologer.
    Or they just put names in a hat, pull a few and say "fcuk these guys up for a laugh".


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    #10
    Nate--IRL--
    Registered Users Posts: 2,223 ✭✭✭Nate--IRL--


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    I am certainly no expert, but I don't see the problem with this guys profile.
    I think the issue is that insurance companies are trying too hard to predict the future and minimise the amount of claims, so they start to look for correlation in smaller and smaller details, such as is he wearing red socks, is he a Sagittarius, does he eat a banana on Tuesday or does he like to watch TV with his slippers on.
    Based on that, experienced drivers with years and years of no claims suddenly are priced out of the market with ludicrous quotes, because there is a 3% increased chance they might have a crash according to their astrologer.
    Or they just put names in a hat, pull a few and say "fcuk these guys up for a laugh".

    Not at all, there is nothing random about the increases at all, you had it right the first time, the in house Astrologer in most insurance companies is now in charge of premium prices.

    Nate


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    #11
    Sue Pa Key Pa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭Sue Pa Key Pa


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    I am certainly no expert, but I don't see the problem with this guys profile.
    ".

    The highly paid experts employed by the insurer obviously do.


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    #12
    DaveyDave
    Registered Users Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭DaveyDave


    Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »
    The highly paid experts employed by the insurer obviously do.

    It's absurd that's there's no transparency though. How is it different people, with different cars of two completely different ages are getting bumped up by two different insurance companies and that's just ok? Suddenly every A6 and every i30 in the country was involved in a crash while being driven by women with full, clean driving profiles? I'll never understand how insurance works. Bit cold today, better up the insurance?

    What is the Irish insurance industry doing to lobby against false soft tissue claims or whiplash? Cos the rest of Europe doesn't seem to deal with the selective ****e we do.


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    #13
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,620 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »
    The highly paid experts employed by the insurer obviously do.

    And that is the problem right there.
    They're paying guys good money to predict the future, i.e. is this guy going to have a claim?
    So they have to go through every bit of data they can get their hands on to predict the likelihood of that happening.
    To do that all they have to go on is correlation and I do believe that correlation does not equal causation.
    There are probably statistics what sign of the zodiac has the most crashes. Since insurance companies don't let the rest of us know his they arrive at their decisions, I.wouldn't be surprised if they use that data.
    Because insurance companies are more desperate than ever to avoid claims due to the rampant compo culture in Ireland caused by stupidly massive payouts for scratches and owies, methods of interpreting this data will have to get ever more convoluted and look for correlation in ever more hidden nooks and crannies.
    And this results in some drivers being flagged as risks who are completely blameless, they're just collateral.
    What galls me is this attitudinally of "oh, those experts are hugely smart people, they're utterly infallible and are 100% right about every single case where a driver gets shafted for no resosn, but they won't tell you because you mere mortals could never comprehend their methods, your brain would explode"
    Decisions are taken by people, people are fallible and not the super intelligent infallible gods they're portrayed to be. Sometimes, and a lot more than they care to admit, they get it wrong or even utterly fcuk up.
    Insurance companies in Ireland have it tough, but this attitude of "they're never wrong and you wouldn't understand" goes a long, long way towards royally pissing off their clientele.


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    #14
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 82,785 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    The weird thing is in the UK there's no such loading on old cars whatsoever, I would say if they tried if over there the governement wouldn't let them away with it, the idiots here don't give a flying about the orginary motorist.


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    #15
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,620 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    The real problem is with people like Angela McDonagh who stages fraudulent crashes and cleans up in compo claims:

    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/exclusive-man-in-car-crash-with-fraudster-woman-who-brought-60k-claim-for-smash-two-days-earlier-withdraws-his-claim-36461711.html

    And an even bigger problem is the fact that the Irish judiciary doesn't prosecute those people for fraud. You will have to cause a series of crashes before anything will be done.
    If you just cause one crash or exaggerate your nonexistent injuries the judge will let you off with a nod and a wink and a "better luck next time".
    This soft touch mentality leaves Ireland open to fraudsters:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/uk-motor-insurance-fraudsters-target-ireland-s-compensation-payouts-1.2880706?mode=amp

    And what conclusion does the Irish insurance market draw?
    All old cars are death traps and used exclusively for fraud.
    I'm back in Germany and my 2005 Cmax is absolutely no problem to insure. Need I say more.


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    #16
    1874
    Registered Users Posts: 2,400 ✭✭✭1874


    Swamp3 wrote: »
    Your car is over 10 years old. They've jacked up the price of your insurance. Try an online quote with your details and a 2011 version of your car.

    My car is well over ten years old, but Ive had ongoing work done on it, it passes its NCT, so it is clear this all is a money making exercise from the insurance companies, I'm sure they are profiling a whole spectrum and coming out with a certain result and would rather fleece a person or have them bugger off, but if you're the kind of person that has not had a claim, then why can't you be profiled on your own record.
    The car type and age involved in accidents only form a part of the basis of accidents, in many cases, Id just say its a matter of random chance (ie two cars have a collision, they have to be of a certain make/age, if there are more of a certain make and age of car on the road, the chances are they will be involved in more collisions), IMO its really down to the individual driver though.
    Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »
    The highly paid experts employed by the insurer obviously do.

    I think this is the problem
    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    The real problem is with people like Angela McDonagh who stages fraudulent crashes and cleans up in compo claims:

    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/exclusive-man-in-car-crash-with-fraudster-woman-who-brought-60k-claim-for-smash-two-days-earlier-withdraws-his-claim-36461711.html

    And an even bigger problem is the fact that the Irish judiciary doesn't prosecute those people for fraud. You will have to cause a series of crashes before anything will be done.
    If you just cause one crash or exaggerate your nonexistent injuries the judge will let you off with a nod and a wink and a "better luck next time".
    This soft touch mentality leaves Ireland open to fraudsters:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/uk-motor-insurance-fraudsters-target-ireland-s-compensation-payouts-1.2880706?mode=amp

    And what conclusion does the Irish insurance market draw?
    All old cars are death traps and used exclusively for fraud.
    I'm back in Germany and my 2005 Cmax is absolutely no problem to insure. Need I say more.

    The real problem is that they are allowed get away with it and know it, will insurance come down for the rest of us if this is ever sorted? I doubt it, NCT I believed was introduced with some element of cars will be safer/fit for the road, now we are at the point that it has creeped in gradually at first, but now unabated, that anything over 10 years old is a pile of dangerous scrap.
    Its just another effort for the Govt of the day, the State and their enforcers to extract more coin from ordinary people, by either directly interfering where its not needed or not interfering/completely ignoring proablems to make things better for people. IE fix claims to set levels, have records of people making multiple, particularly claims that have trends of set circumstances (where's the insurance companies experts at locating these people and determining they or any cohorts who they are associated with are unfit/unsafe to be on the roads and cannot get insurance/are jailed if they are caught behind a wheel), I know, they will simply fond some other avenue to operate in.


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    #17
    cplwhisper
    Registered Users Posts: 797 ✭✭✭cplwhisper


    sellasheep wrote: »
    I'm driving almost 12 years on a full Irish license, 11 years no claims bonus. No penalty points, full clean record. My car is a 1.8 TDCI Ford Mondeo 2007 valued at 1500. I am 29 years old. Despite this Axa quoted me €1373 and Liberty €1138 on TPFT. My insurance last year was €630 (same car) and €600 the year before. I do 15000km a year and work part time in an office.

    Does anyone know why they're trying to get up and ride me effectively and what can I do to get it down?

    Could u PM me..


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    #18
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Keep shopping around. Try all the companies in the sticky "List of insurers"


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    #19
    sellasheep
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 231 ✭✭sellasheep


    I followed the sticky thread and ended up with a quote of €581! Needless to say I almost bit their hand off!!


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    #20
    DaveyDave
    Registered Users Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭DaveyDave


    sellasheep wrote: »
    I followed the sticky thread and ended up with a quote of €581! Needless to say I almost bit their hand off!!

    Who did you go with? I'm interested to see what sort of quotes I get in October once I get 1 year NCB I'll have a lot more choice with the likes of Post Insurance and FBD.


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    #21
    sellasheep
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 231 ✭✭sellasheep


    DaveyDave wrote: »
    Who did you go with? I'm interested to see what sort of quotes I get in October once I get 1 year NCB I'll have a lot more choice with the likes of Post Insurance and FBD.

    123.ie

    Post Insurance quoted me 600 more!!


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    #22
    Grab All Association
    Registered Users Posts: 3,920 ✭✭✭Grab All Association


    sellasheep wrote: »
    I followed the sticky thread and ended up with a quote of €581! Needless to say I almost bit their hand off!!

    Delighted for you. You’re not the first I’ve heard about getting a deal from them. Fair play to 123 they have came to the rescue of a lot of people who’d be otherwise priced off the road.

    Insurance is a scam aided and abetted by the Irish government. Wasn’t it Mary Harney who allowed insurance companies to discriminate on age/gender? She ended up getting a cosy job with an insurance company I’ve heard.


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    #23
    ForestFire
    Registered Users Posts: 2,390 ✭✭✭ForestFire


    Grab All Association wrote: »
    Delighted for you. You’re not the first I’ve heard about getting a deal from them. Fair play to 123 they have came to the rescue of a lot of people who’d be otherwise priced off the road.

    Insurance is a scam aided and abetted by the Irish government. Wasn’t it Mary Harney who allowed insurance companies to discriminate on age/gender? She ended up getting a cosy job with an insurance company I’ve heard.

    Post Insurance was much cheaper for me than 123.

    There is no one insurance company thats cheaper than the rest, otherwise they would have everybody and the others out of business.

    It's just a matter of ringing around them all, until you find who is the cheapest for you.

    Come to think of it, do they each 'randomly' put up the insurance for one of their criteria, to try to catch the lazy people, and make more money. They will lose a few, but if they all 'agree' to do this they pick up more off the others too?


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    #24
    taylor3
    Registered Users Posts: 266 ✭✭taylor3


    Last October my car insurance doubled. I had paid close to €400 from Oct 2016 To Oct 2017 and when the renewal quote came in the blagards were quoting me €849. Was with them for years with no claims etc; when I rang them up and challenged them they didn't give a damn. They would not budge. So I went on line and got a few quotes elsewhere. Best i got was €380 from it's for women. So that's who I'm with at the moment. Scandalous that they are allowed get away with this. Id hate to be 18 or 20 and starting off.


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