Cycling and THAT Late Late Show segment

RobFowl

endacl wrote: »

Who, or what, is a ‘Maura Derrane’?

It's a sidekick for a Kerryman

Corca Baiscinn

CramCycle wrote: »

I am more shocked that so many people apparently still watch the late late show. I don't know who the person everyone is on about is, and I am not going to google them either..

Ah "old person", doubt they all watched The LL Show! The offending clip was posted on Social Media before midnight on Friday night and retweeted/shared by several people over the weekend I'd guess that many people like myself saw it that way and can comment on it without having to endure the whole LLS. Like yourself I didn't know who Maura Derrane was either but have picked up enough now to know I wasn't deprived.

CramCycle

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

Ah "old person", doubt they all watched The LL Show! The offending clip was posted on Social Media before midnight on Friday night and retweeted/shared by several people over the weekend I'd guess that many people like myself saw it that way and can comment on it without having to endure the whole LLS. Like yourself I didn't know who Maura Derrane was either but have picked up enough now to know I wasn't deprived.

I ended up watching about 30seconds, I don't know who the muppet at the end of the seat was. The Maura one was just like a mild version of any of those muppets who get hired in the UK to spout a bit of rubbish and start a bit of an uproar, looks like she achieved what she was hired to do.

As for Eoin Colfer, he already ruined a perfectly fine trilogy in five parts so whatever he said means nothing to me.

brianhalpin

Sent.

Diarmuid

IF you have already made a complaint to RTE, you could knock it out of the park with a complaint to the BAI
http://www.bai.ie/en/viewers-listeners/complaints/

Your complaint could be included under "Harm & undue offence, including law and order
(Section 48(1)(b) of the Broadcasting Act: BAI Code of Programme Standards)
Every broadcaster must ensure that it does not broadcast anything which may
reasonably be regarded as likely to cause harm or undue offence or unreasonably
encroach on the privacy of an individual or raise issues of a law and order nature. You
are invited to review the BAI Code of Programme Standards when making a complaint
about harm and undue offence, including law and order and privacy.
"

What would an ideal outcome from these complaints be?

Danbo!

Basil3 wrote: »

What would an ideal outcome from these complaints be?

Ideal: The Late Late doing a piece on cyclist safety, dispel some myths and quell the anti-cycling narrative that's become prevalent in the media. Be great to get a panel together with some cyclists/AA/RSA for a healthy debate/discussion

Good: Roll back on it, admit that it wasn't the best idea.

Probably: A small article somewhere mentioning RTE got X complaints about the piece

More Probably: Nothing.

(I'm a pessimist in case it wasn't obvious)

_Puma_

Noticeable increase in punishment passes on my solo Sunday spin. What surprises me most is that the Late late show is still popular. Haven't watched the segment and have no intention of doing so.

CramCycle

No matter what happens, I don't see the output being positive. Some people already have a bee in their bonnet about anything that doesn't work in the way they work, be it people who cycle instead of drive or a variety of other examples (that would bring us into after hours territory).

If they do a full apology etc., those above will put it down to whining cyclists who think they are better than me. They invite on a panel who are pro cycling, the complaints will be 10 fold, although the Late Late will love the feedback it gets on social media.

I do wish RTE done that show where they go through the complaints made to the broadcaster. If I remember right, the BBC used to do it, Points of View with Barry Norman.

lindascribbler

I've only just seen this thread and haven't read it all but want to send a complaint to RTE ...is it an email to complaints@rte.ie?

OleRodrigo

The whole internet has gone After Hours

You could call it ' outragenomics ' .

tomasrojo

CramCycle wrote: »

I do wish RTE done that show where they go through the complaints made to the broadcaster. If I remember right, the BBC used to do it, Points of View with Barry Norman.

Barry Took? (Who also wrote a lot of Round the Horne, fans of old BBC comedies.)

RTE did have a show called Mailbag, I think, which was much the same show. My wife's sister got a letter read out on it when she was little. One of the highlights of her childhood, I think.

tomasrojo

I suppose one positive outcome would be that RTE realises that there are plenty of people who get about by bike, either for work or leisure. I get the impression that what passes for the upper echelons of light entertainment have a very odd, cosseted and somewhat elitist world view (cracks about public transport users too) and it's no harm for a bit of reality to intrude now and then.

That said, I'm not complaining till I've actually watched it. I don't think there'll be any surprises in the content, which have been widely covered, but I want to get the tone.

I'll watch it tomorrow. Just gently siphoning the last bit of content from the dregs of my monthly broadband allowance now.

Tombo2001

Danbo! wrote: »

Ideal: The Late Late doing a piece on cyclist safety, dispel some myths and quell the anti-cycling narrative that's become prevalent in the media. Be great to get a panel together with some cyclists/AA/RSA for a healthy debate/discussion

Good: Roll back on it, admit that it wasn't the best idea.

Probably: A small article somewhere mentioning RTE got X complaints about the piece

More Probably: Nothing.

(I'm a pessimist in case it wasn't obvious)

I dont really agree.

Because there is an underlying thing within the media that its ok to kick cyclists. Its like a default group that everyone seems to agree its ok to bash. Which obviously creates a dangerous situation for cyclists.

We see this with other media groups - Irish Times, thejournal, independent.ie, lovindublin......they'll have opinion pieces, in much the same way that Maura Derrane was offerring her 'opinion', and then the newspaper or website will be like 'well this is an opinion piece, it doesnt reflect our views'.....and then they will run another opinion piece and another opinion piece and they are all tearing into cyclists. Or like the Garda Twitter - its in the name 'raising awareness'.

And every now and then they will write an article about the health benefits of cycling, or the greenway in Mayo - and thats supposed to be balance.

But the thing about balance - saying negative things about cyclists isnt balanced by saying positive things about cycling.

Its like that great line the FT had about the Labour Party - the labour party loves everything about the working class except the people in it.

The Irish media loves everything about cycling except cyclists, whom it time and time again has singled out and targetted for abuse.

I would much rather see Irish cycling groups say 'Late Late Show, Ryan Tubridy - you are anti cyclists, you have displayed contempt for cyclists - at a time when so many cyclists are being killed on the road. We will not go on your TV show, we will have nothing to do with you'.

Because that would send a message out to all the other media groups - including the Garda twitter account - next time you do one of your casual anti-cyclist pieces there will be a back lash.

AndrewJRenko

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I would much rather see Irish cycling groups say 'Late Late Show, Ryan Tubridy - you are anti cyclists, you have displayed contempt for cyclists - at a time when so many cyclists are being killed on the road. We will not go on your TV show, we will have nothing to do with you'.

Because that would send a message out to all the other media groups - including the Garda twitter account - next time you do one of your casual anti-cyclist pieces there will be a back lash.

I've had similar views to yourself, especially in relation to those Newstalk shows where you know cyclists just wont get a fair hearing - Pat Kenny, Hook.

But then I've heard other cyclists, especially some of the IBikeDublin folks go on those shows and give a really clear, fair non-antagonistic view of the benefits of cycling for society as a whole and the unfairness of the anti-cycling coverage.

I'm not sure that the 'keep away' approach really achieves anything.

Nika Bolokov

Having this turn in to an official complaint will do nothing for motorist cyclist relations.

There's a cycling club , I don't know the name but have been stuck behind it many times, that regularly cycles 3 abreast on the N14 in Donegal, a narrow bendy road, causing a tailback. The driving up there can be bad enough but you have people trying to overtake the large group at high speed as they get frustrated being stuck doing 30km on a 100km road with no alternative.

That's the type of thing in sure she was referring too. Which most would agree is not good practice.

There is a problem with arrogance amongst some cycling groups and I say that as a cyclist but no less stupid motorists.

Pitching this into a battle wont help.

Tombo2001

Nika Bolokov wrote: »

Having this turn in to an official complaint will do nothing for motorist cyclist relations.

There's a cycling club , I don't know the name but have been stuck behind it many times, that regularly cycles 3 abreast on the N14 in Donegal, a narrow bendy road, causing a tailback. The driving up there can be bad enough but you have people trying to overtake the large group at high speed as they get frustrated being stuck doing 30km on a 100km road with no alternative.

That's the type of thing in sure she was referring too. Which most would agree is not good practice.

There is a problem with arrogance amongst some cycling groups and I say that as a cyclist but no less stupid motorists.

Pitching this into a battle wont help.

I really dont think motorist cyclist relations could be any worse than they already are.

There is a pervasive dislike and disdain for cyclists amongst motorists, that is not the fault of cyclists, unless you want to get into a victim blaming 'its their own fault because they do this' situation.

Its something I am hearing more and more in casual conversations at work. Its a view that I believe has been encouraged and legitamised by media groups over the past decade - a long list of media commentators have come out with anti cyclist rants.

Incidentally I've driven many times on the N14 - as you say its a narrow road. Its two way traffic with a line in the middle.

I dont think its possible for cyclists to be three abreast on this road with going onto the other side of the road in the face of oncoming traffic.

Tombo2001

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I've had similar views to yourself, especially in relation to those Newstalk shows where you know cyclists just wont get a fair hearing - Pat Kenny, Hook.

But then I've heard other cyclists, especially some of the IBikeDublin folks go on those shows and give a really clear, fair non-antagonistic view of the benefits of cycling for society as a whole and the unfairness of the anti-cycling coverage.

I'm not sure that the 'keep away' approach really achieves anything.

The vast number of motorists who want to put the boot into cyclists - they only want to hear the rant, this legitamises their views. They dont hear the counter argument.

robyntmorton

From the Irish Times today:
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/tv-radio-web/late-late-show-incited-hatred-towards-cyclists-claims-group-1.3355815

CramCycle

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Because there is an underlying thing within the media that its ok to kick cyclists. Its like a default group that everyone seems to agree its ok to bash. Which obviously creates a dangerous situation for cyclists.

Complaints where they pigeon hole any other group are easy to be pulled up on by the general public and the BAI. Cyclists are not a group, and are not characterised by anything other than a vehicle they sit on. You could do the same about white van men etc. The difference is, if you don't like white van men while driving, its not really going to affect the WVM. And many will be quicker to associate with them, being drivers, so will more likely to take the normal attitude of, they are not all like that.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I've had similar views to yourself, especially in relation to those Newstalk shows where you know cyclists just wont get a fair hearing - Pat Kenny, Hook.

But then I've heard other cyclists, especially some of the IBikeDublin folks go on those shows and give a really clear, fair non-antagonistic view of the benefits of cycling for society as a whole and the unfairness of the anti-cycling coverage.

I'm not sure that the 'keep away' approach really achieves anything.

I thought Kenny was OK, he just acts as a counter balance, as a good radio host should.

Nika Bolokov wrote: »

Having this turn in to an official complaint will do nothing for motorist cyclist relations.

Saying nothing won't help either but I get what you mean.

There's a cycling club , I don't know the name but have been stuck behind it many times, that regularly cycles 3 abreast on the N14 in Donegal, a narrow bendy road, causing a tailback. The driving up there can be bad enough but you have people trying to overtake the large group at high speed as they get frustrated being stuck doing 30km on a 100km road with no alternative.

Get a jersey description, you can then identify them and mail their secretary if you think their behavior is dangerous.

This said, on a narrow bendy road, maybe people shouldn't be doing much more than 30kmph anyway. Certainly should not be aiming for 100kmph, it is after all a limit not a target (not saying you were). What do these angry motorists do when a farmer is moving livestock?

That's the type of thing in sure she was referring too. Which most would agree is not good practice.

I find it hard to believe they were 3 abreast but two abreast would be best practice, rather than singling out on a winding road where the overtake distance will then be doubled (or tripled if 3 abreast)

Tombo2001 wrote: »

The vast number of motorists who want to put the boot into cyclists - they only want to hear the rant, this legitamises their views. They dont hear the counter argument.

Like most people, thanks to the echo chamber created by the likes of Reddit and twitter, only promoting spheres of thought you appear to like, more and more, we are getting used to not hearing dissenting voices.

The problem now is, that unlike my youth where people could disagree with each other, nowadays it is seen as akin to assault. One of the reasons I prefer boards to most other online platforms. Even when it irks the majority or goes against the grain, so long as it does not breach the rules, it is tolerated and protected. Several regular posters I disagree with here on a regular basis, but while i do not agree, I think it is great they can say it and discussion can be had in a relatively civilised tone.

Mercian Pro

Tombo2001 wrote: »

The Irish media loves everything about cycling except cyclists

Nail on head.

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I really dont think motorist cyclist relations could be any worse than they already are.... There is a pervasive dislike and disdain for cyclists amongst motorists

Tombo2001 wrote: »

The vast number of motorists who want to put the boot into cyclists - they only want to hear the rant, this legitamises their views.

I think it would be counter-productive to over estimate the scale of the problem. Punishment passes are still the exception rather than the norm and a large majority of motorists give plenty of room and pass safely on our club spins. I find that motorists in general respond better if their presence behind a group is acknowledged either by the group tightening up or, in some cases, going single-file. I am well aware that it is often safer both for the motorist and the cyclists to stay two-by-two but, on a number of occasions when it didn't compromise safety, we have received thank you toots from passing motorists after singling out.

CramCycle

tomasrojo wrote: »

Barry Took? (Who also wrote a lot of Round the Horne, fans of old BBC comedies.)

You are 100% correct

tomasrojo wrote: »

I suppose one positive outcome would be that RTE realises that there are plenty of people who get about by bike, either for work or leisure. I get the impression that what passes for the upper echelons of light entertainment have a very odd, cosseted and somewhat elitist world view (cracks about public transport users too) and it's no harm for a bit of reality to intrude now and then.

That said, I'm not complaining till I've actually watched it. I don't think there'll be any surprises in the content, which have been widely covered, but I want to get the tone.

I'll watch it tomorrow. Just gently siphoning the last bit of content from the dregs of my monthly broadband allowance now.

TBF when I got a puncture a few weeks ago and both attempts at a repair failed, and I was facing a long waddle into work as I had no lock for the bike, the cyclist who pulled in and gave me his spare tube worked in RTE (I didn't ask but I caught a glimpse of his ID card). So there are at least some nice people in RTE who do not hate cyclists. On a similar note, I used to have to cycle down nutley lane to work daily. I distinctly remember to famous faces and their different attitudes to cyclists on the stretch. Ray Darcy constantly looked unhappy, that he just wished life was over and he would constantly plough out in front of me without a second glance. Marty Whelan on the other hand, always looked happy, stress free and smile as you passed by as he ceded right of way.

1bryan

CramCycle wrote: »

So there are at least some nice people in RTE who do not hate cyclists.

Bryan Dobson is a long-time cycle commuter.

Macy0161

Mercian Pro wrote: »

I think it would be counter-productive to over estimate the scale of the problem. Punishment passes are still the exception rather than the norm and a large majority of motorists give plenty of room and pass safely on our club spins.

I would agree. However, passes with plenty of space, but where the motorist hasn't waited until they can see far enough ahead to safely complete the manoeuvre are a significant (and underfocused on) issue imo and experience. Both on group spins and solo/ with the family, overtakes happen on or approaching bends and brows of hills/ inclines where there's no way the motorist can see far enough.

AndrewJRenko

Nika Bolokov wrote: »

Having this turn in to an official complaint will do nothing for motorist cyclist relations.

There's a cycling club , I don't know the name but have been stuck behind it many times, that regularly cycles 3 abreast on the N14 in Donegal, a narrow bendy road, causing a tailback. The driving up there can be bad enough but you have people trying to overtake the large group at high speed as they get frustrated being stuck doing 30km on a 100km road with no alternative.

That's the type of thing in sure she was referring too. Which most would agree is not good practice.

There is a problem with arrogance amongst some cycling groups and I say that as a cyclist but no less stupid motorists.

Pitching this into a battle wont help.

Cycling two abreast would make no difference to the ability of the motorist to pass out the cyclists. If anything, it would make it harder for a motorist to pass the cycling group safely. Since when does self-preservation = arrogance?

Tombo2001 wrote: »

The vast number of motorists who want to put the boot into cyclists - they only want to hear the rant, this legitamises their views. They dont hear the counter argument.

Yeah, they only want to hear the rant, but unless they go to the bother of changing channel, they will literally hear the other side. They may not listen, but they will hear it.

tomasrojo

CramCycle wrote: »

Marty Whelan on the other hand, always looked happy, stress free and smile as you passed by as he ceded right of way.

What you might expect from his radio persona.

tomasrojo

1bryan wrote: »

Bryan Dobson is a long-time cycle commuter.

Yeah, I've seen him out and about a few times.

Tombo2001

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Cycling two abreast would make no difference to the ability of the motorist to pass out the cyclists. If anything, it would make it harder for a motorist to pass the cycling group safely. Since when does self-preservation = arrogance?



Yeah, they only want to hear the rant, but unless they go to the bother of changing channel, they will literally hear the other side. They may not listen, but they will hear it.

Bottom line - we've had this going on in the media for ten years now. Really flippant yet caustic pieces about cyclists.

It wasnt a media 'thing' in the 1990s or 1980s. It is now. Bash the cyclists.

I dont want to use the word 'legitamise' too often, but a rant and rave is not 'balanced' by having a sensible guy on from Dublin Cycling Campaign presenting facts and figures.

But - and this is my main point - having the guy on from Dublin Cycling Campaign, allows them in the name of balance to also have the 'rant and rave' opinion piece that is causing so much trouble in the first place.

Wishbone Ash

To be discussed on Liveline this afternoon (Radio One 1.45pm)

Nika Bolokov

Nika Bolokov wrote: »

Having this turn in to an official complaint will do nothing for motorist cyclist relations.

...

There is a problem with arrogance amongst some cycling groups and I say that as a cyclist but no less stupid motorists.

Pitching this into a battle wont help.

Ah this old chestnut