Cycling and THAT Late Late Show segment

Annie get your Run

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'm still a little agog at that post.

But sure isn't that the crux of the issue? Drivers simply don't understand that they should absolutely not overtake a cyclist while they are still in the same lane as that cyclist (or barely crossed over into the next lane). They just don't get it because they can't understand what that feels like unless they've experienced it for themselves or had it explained to them by a loved one.

Edit to say they also don't seem to understand that they should not overtake on a solid white line with poor visibility of what's coming against them but they do this too thinking they are giving lots of space to the cyclist (but putting other traffic in danger then!!).

07Lapierre

Matt Cooper just discussed this issue with Dublin Cycling Campaign.. just brace yourselves for the texts from listeners! Won’t be pretty!

magicbastarder

who was on from DCC? o'tuama?

07Lapierre

magicbastarder wrote: »

who was on from DCC? o'tuama?

Sorry didn’t catch his name.

Purple Mountain

Come on don't get excited.
That segment was RTE just scraping the barrel as a filler because there was no other guest available.
Nobody took it or the 'panel' seriously.
I spent the time scoffing and taking the p*ss out of them..

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

yes, we call that 'an overtaking manouevre'.
you do realise that for a cyclist, being overtaken into oncoming traffic is not good for the blood pressure? whether the motorist realises it or not, it's an utter dick move.

This just sums up the cycling forums to me. It has to be the most unwelcome place on boards. If you're not 'pro-cycling', or can twist any viewpoint to serve a pro-cycling stance, you're 'the enemy'.

Any comment that can be made that is not remotely controversial, is somehow twisted into something that can be used to attack. It's extremely sad.

If I'm passing a single cyclist, I pass them with adequate clearance. The same goes for any vehicle or group of cyclists. Depending on the road we're on, and the width and length of what I'm overtaking, I have to take varying sized arcs to overtake. Sometimes this requires me going completely onto the oncoming lane, sometimes it doesn't.

You can rest easy, I'm not doing any 'utter dick moves'.... :rolleyes:

Annie get your Run

Basil3 wrote: »

This just sums up the cycling forums to me. It has to be the most unwelcome place on boards. If you're not 'pro-cycling', or can twist any viewpoint to serve a pro-cycling stance, you're 'the enemy'.

Any comment that can be made that is not remotely controversial, is somehow twisted into something that can be used to attack. It's extremely sad.

If I'm passing a single cyclist, I pass them with adequate clearance. The same goes for any vehicle or group of cyclists. Depending on the road we're on, and the width and length of what I'm overtaking, I have to take varying sized arcs to overtake. Sometimes this requires me going completely onto the oncoming lane, sometimes it doesn't.

You can rest easy, I'm not doing any 'utter dick moves'.... :rolleyes:

Can you give us an example of any road in Ireland that allows for overtaking while you're in the same lane as a single cyclist and still give them 1.5m of space as per the rules of the road? I'd genuinely like to see an example. Personally none of the roads I cycle on would allow for that although plenty of motorists think it's okay to do that.

triggermortis

Basil3 wrote: »

If I'm passing a single cyclist, I pass them with adequate clearance. :

How is it adequate if you're not on the other side of the road?

This is the problem, everyone has their own idea of adequate and what may seem adequate to you might scare the cr@p out of a cyclist if they don't agree with your choice of distance and feel it's too close.
The proposed rule of 1.5m passing distance would give people less choice about what they see as adequate, but as its basically unenforceable, the problem would still be there.

I can't see why you need to not fully cross the white line (if there is one) to pass any number of cyclists (or cows or whatever..)

ericzeking

Annie get your Run wrote: »

But sure isn't that the crux of the issue? Drivers simply don't understand that they should absolutely not overtake a cyclist while they are still in the same lane as that cyclist (or barely crossed over into the next lane). They just don't get it because they can't understand what that feels like unless they've experienced it for themselves or had it explained to them by a loved one.

Edit to say they also don't seem to understand that they should not overtake on a solid white line with poor visibility of what's coming against them but they do this too thinking they are giving lots of space to the cyclist (but putting other traffic in danger then!!).

If only!! If oncoming traffic appears....it's the cyclist that will get shunted off the road by the overtaker....that's why they do it, there is no consequence to them safety wise.

Annie get your Run

Basil3 wrote: »

This just sums up the cycling forums to me. It has to be the most unwelcome place on boards. If you're not 'pro-cycling', or can twist any viewpoint to serve a pro-cycling stance, you're 'the enemy'.

Any comment that can be made that is not remotely controversial, is somehow twisted into something that can be used to attack. It's extremely sad.

Just to put some context on this for you, every single day I'm on my bike my life is put at risk by someone driving dangerously. This is a matter of our lives or deaths. You really need to understand that as that is place from which most people posting here are coming from. It's nothing to do with pro or anti cycling. It's to do with saving lives, namely our own.

magicbastarder

Basil3 wrote: »

This just sums up the cycling forums to me. It has to be the most unwelcome place on boards. If you're not 'pro-cycling', or can twist any viewpoint to serve a pro-cycling stance, you're 'the enemy'.

it's a hoary old chestnut - but the considerable majority of posters to this forum are also motorists. i actually changed my car today, so i'm sitting typing this dressed in sackcloth, flagellating myself for my sins.

one thing many motorists don't seem to realise is that cyclists are not telepathic. an example, not dissimilar to overtaking cyclists into oncoming traffic. when a motorist pulls out of a side junction in front of a cyclist, they may do so in the casual confidence that they have enough time to do so, not realising that the cyclist cannot be certain that they have been seen, and also with the cyclist having to allow for the motorist slamming on the brakes for whatever reason. 99.9% of the time, the situation will pass without incident, but that doesn't mean the cyclist did not have cause to see their heart rate spike a little.

Annie get your Run

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Can you give us an example of any road in Ireland that allows for overtaking while you're in the same lane as a single cyclist and still give them 1.5m of space as per the rules of the road? I'd genuinely like to see an example. Personally none of the roads I cycle on would allow for that although plenty of motorists think it's okay to do that.

I'd say the R109 along the bottom of Phoenix Park heading towards the quays is fine, there's also a decent cycle lane there, but should they choose to use the road....

davidk1394

I've being following this thread and posts on Facebook. I have no issues with cyclists. I live in rural Ireland but also on a main road. I do a lot of machinery work particularly with tractors. The majority of cyclists are sound and fair minded they pull in enough to let you pass or slow down a bit so I can get passed them safely and I acknowledge them.
I have come across arrogant cyclists in my time who insist on cycling right out onto the yellow line so I haven't enough room to pass safely or who won't slow down for me to pass. My tractor can do 42km and on average they do 38-40km but I can't have enough of a run to pass them safely. I'll give you an example I was driving on the N24 and I was behind 2 cyclists. From kilhefernan roundabout all the way through kilsheelan village and out the other side (roughly 3kms), neither myself or any other vehicle could pass. After kilsheelan the cyclists and myself continued along the hard shoulder (roughly 8ft wide). I caught up with them but couldn't pass as they were going to fast for me to get a run passed them. So I gave another 2kms behind them doing between 37-39km/hr. Meanwhile the two boys looked back the odd and refused to slow down just 5kms for 30 seconds so I could pass. So I'm behind them a total of 5kms. At this stage I was getting pretty fed up of this. So we came to a hill with a medium incline and about 500 metres long. So the boys started cycling flat out and increased the gap between me and them. Half way up they got tired and I caught up with them. They were still 2 abreast and I decided to keep the throttle at around 35kms. By the time they got to the top of the hill the 2 boys learned there lesson and pulled in fairly quick.
If this was the other way around and a tractor holding up the whole place people would go ape shìt over it. Another thing why do cyclist's tuck in behind tractors and trailers ? Directly out view of mirrors. Happened a friend of mine on a main road. He had to stop suddenly because a car pulled out in front of him on the hard shoulder and the cyclists lamped straight into the trailer.
I know what it is like to be at the receiving end of abuse over holding up the place from people in big D reg Mercs, Audis or BMWs who think they own the road be it a main road or a back road. But from my perspective respect is a 2 way street.

sdanseo

The most obvious cause of the very common attitude by motorists to cyclists is the utter failure of the state to provide cycle infrastructure. Any that exists is piecemeal, non-joined dots, usually only present because a housing developer was forced to build them for the extent of their road frontage and no more. The sad fact is that many roads and streets simply are not capable of providing for both cyclists and the volume of motor traffic safely, even with the best intention of motorists or cyclists - because you will always get one or the other asserting their absolute right to the space.

The solution is twofold: provide much more cycle infrastructure so that the two modes can operate in tandem and in limited areas where nearby alternatives exist, exclude one of the modes from streets where it simply isn't safe or practical to work both together.

BowSideChamp

Basil3 wrote: »

I'd say the R109 along the bottom of Phoenix Park heading towards the quays is fine, there's also a decent cycle lane there, but should they choose to use the road....

You obviously have never cycled on that cycle lane. It is cut up to shreds. Using it is dangerous imo.

Annie get your Run

Basil3 wrote: »

I'd say the R109 along the bottom of Phoenix Park heading towards the quays is fine, there's also a decent cycle lane there, but should they choose to use the road....

Okay, I have a challenge for you. Cycle that road in the direction of the quays every morning in rush hour for a week and come back and tell us how you got on. I'm being serious BTW. I'd really like you to try that so you can actually put yourself in a cyclists shoes.

By the way, it's not wide enough to safely overtake without crossing into the opposite lane, not by a long way..

Annie get your Run

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Okay, I have a challenge for you. Cycle that road in the direction of the quays every morning in rush hour for a week and come back and tell us how you got on. I'm being serious BTW. I'd really like you to try that so you can actually put yourself in a cyclists shoes.

By the way, it's not wide enough to safely overtake without crossing into the opposite lane, not by a long way..

This is getting miles off topic. I used to cycle when it was viable, and now it's not. Even then, I would cut down through the park rather than go along the bottom.

The point of my post is an example of a road where I can pass a cyclist with 1.5m clearance and remain in my lane. That is an example of somewhere I go regularly.

I don't even drive, so none of this is an issue to me.

magicbastarder

davidk1394 wrote: »

I've being following this thread and posts on Facebook. I have no issues with cyclists.

no-one is denying that there are cyclists out there who can be dicks.
the issue here is that the amount of ire expressed towards cyclists on national media is completely out of kilter with the problems that they cause. for example, i don't think i've ever heard a talk radio host ranting about people on mobile phones in their car, in the way i have heard them ranting about cyclists.
i see motorists being idiotic all the time, but they're not a pillory figure in the way cyclists are, probably because most people see them as 'other'.

so cyclists are just tired of it. i'm a little tired of having to deal with the usual comments when i tell people i enjoy cycling and commute on a bike, but if i retorted, even jokingly, with 'i don't know how you can see me misbehaving on the road with your nose buried in your phone', people would look at me as if i have two heads.

amcalester

davidk1394 wrote: »

I've being following this thread and posts on Facebook. I have no issues with cyclists. I live in rural Ireland but also on a main road. I do a lot of machinery work particularly with tractors. The majority of cyclists are sound and fair minded they pull in enough to let you pass or slow down a bit so I can get passed them safely and I acknowledge them.
I have come across arrogant cyclists in my time who insist on cycling right out onto the yellow line so I haven't enough room to pass safely or who won't slow down for me to pass. My tractor can do 42km and on average they do 38-40km but I can't have enough of a run to pass them safely. I'll give you an example I was driving on the N24 and I was behind 2 cyclists. From kilhefernan roundabout all the way through kilsheelan village and out the other side (roughly 3kms), neither myself or any other vehicle could pass. After kilsheelan the cyclists and myself continued along the hard shoulder (roughly 8ft wide). I caught up with them but couldn't pass as they were going to fast for me to get a run passed them. So I gave another 2kms behind them doing between 37-39km/hr. Meanwhile the two boys looked back the odd and refused to slow down just 5kms for 30 seconds so I could pass. So I'm behind them a total of 5kms. At this stage I was getting pretty fed up of this. So we came to a hill with a medium incline and about 500 metres long. So the boys started cycling flat out and increased the gap between me and them. Half way up they got tired and I caught up with them. They were still 2 abreast and I decided to keep the throttle at around 35kms. By the time they got to the top of the hill the 2 boys learned there lesson and pulled in fairly quick.
If this was the other way around and a tractor holding up the whole place people would go ape shìt over it. Another thing why do cyclist's tuck in behind tractors and trailers ? Directly out view of mirrors. Happened a friend of mine on a main road. He had to stop suddenly because a car pulled out in front of him on the hard shoulder and the cyclists lamped straight into the trailer.
I know what it is like to be at the receiving end of abuse over holding up the place from people in big D reg Mercs, Audis or BMWs who think they own the road be it a main road or a back road. But from my perspective respect is a 2 way street.

You’re annoyed because you couldnt go fast enough to pass out the cyclists and they wouldn’t slow down to let you, and they’re the arrogant ones.

The mind boggles.

amcalester

BowSideChamp wrote: »

You obviously have never cycled on that cycle lane. It is cut up to shreds. Using it is dangerous imo.

Wasn’t a cyclist killed on that path in 2016?

Annie get your Run

Basil3 wrote: »

This is getting miles off topic. I used to cycle when it was viable, and now it's not. Even then, I would cut down through the park rather than go along the bottom.

The point of my post is an example of a road where I can pass a cyclist with 1.5m clearance and remain in my lane. That is an example of somewhere I go regularly.

I don't even drive, so none of this is an issue to me.

But that road is not an example of that, you can not pass a cyclist on that road giving them 1.5m of space while staying inside the lane.

If you don't drive then yes, it's not relevant to you so we should probably just leave it there.

magicbastarder

Basil3 wrote: »

If I'm passing a single cyclist, I pass them with adequate clearance. The same goes for any vehicle or group of cyclists. Depending on the road we're on, and the width and length of what I'm overtaking, I have to take varying sized arcs to overtake. Sometimes this requires me going completely onto the oncoming lane, sometimes it doesn't

Basil3 wrote: »

I don't even drive, so none of this is an issue to me.

how do you overtake when you don't drive?

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

how do you overtake when you don't drive?

I should have said I rarely drive. I cycle, ride a motorbike, and drive a car to varying degrees throughout my life. Right now, I'm 90%+ motorbike.

davidk1394

amcalester wrote: »

You’re annoyed because you couldnt go fast enough to pass out the cyclists and they wouldn’t slow down to let you, and they’re the arrogant ones.

The mind boggles.

After being stuck behind them for 5 kilometers. That's ignorance

triggermortis

davidk1394 wrote: »

After being stuck behind them for 5 kilometers. That's ignorance

That's not ignorance, that's life.

magicbastarder

to be fair, if i'm out on a country road and someone driving a large vehicle gets 'caught' behind me and is clearly not the sort of vehicle able to perform a 'normal' overtake - due to size and lack of acceleration, i will pull in to let them pass.
partly out of politeness, partly from a sense of self-preservation because i don't know what sort of driver is behind the wheel.
(always good to bear in mind that approximately half of all motorists are below average intelligence).

amcalester

davidk1394 wrote: »

After being stuck behind them for 5 kilometers. That's ignorance

But you were "stuck" behind them because you couldn't go fast enough to overtake them.

That not really being stuck behind them.

At those speeds you posted you both would have been leapfrogging each other if you both slowed down to let the (marginally) faster vehicle past.

amcalester

magicbastarder wrote: »

to be fair, if i'm out on a country road and someone driving a large vehicle gets 'caught' behind me and is clearly not the sort of vehicle able to perform a 'normal' overtake - due to size and lack of acceleration, i will pull in to let them pass.
partly out of politeness, partly from a sense of self-preservation because i don't know what sort of driver is behind the wheel.
(always good to bear in mind that approximately half of all motorists are below average intelligence).

As would I, but I wouldn't be in too much of a rush to move aside of a slow moving vehicle while traveling through a village or roundabouts particularly when the difference in speed is so small.

I wonder if that poster left enough space between the tractor and cyclists to allow the faster vehicles behind him to over take himself.

AndrewJRenko

mr spuckler wrote: »

tbf i'd expect it may well be harder if you're also trying to allow 1.5 metres between the car and the outermost cyclist (thinking country road example here).

Why is it harder? You're going to have to cross the white line to pass one cyclist. What difference does it make how far you cross the white line?

Purple Mountain wrote: »

Come on don't get excited.
That segment was RTE just scraping the barrel as a filler because there was no other guest available.
Nobody took it or the 'panel' seriously.
I spent the time scoffing and taking the p*ss out of them..

So it's all just a big laugh, then? And if they did the same segment and threw (just for example) black people in the bin because of how loud they are (and it happened that 15 black people had been killed in loudness related incidents in the past year), that would all be just a big laugh too, yeah?

davidk1394 wrote: »

I've being following this thread and posts on Facebook. I have no issues with cyclists. I live in rural Ireland but also on a main road. I do a lot of machinery work particularly with tractors. The majority of cyclists are sound and fair minded they pull in enough to let you pass or slow down a bit so I can get passed them safely and I acknowledge them.
I have come across arrogant cyclists in my time who insist on cycling right out onto the yellow line so I haven't enough room to pass safely or who won't slow down for me to pass. My tractor can do 42km and on average they do 38-40km but I can't have enough of a run to pass them safely. I'll give you an example I was driving on the N24 and I was behind 2 cyclists. From kilhefernan roundabout all the way through kilsheelan village and out the other side (roughly 3kms), neither myself or any other vehicle could pass. After kilsheelan the cyclists and myself continued along the hard shoulder (roughly 8ft wide). I caught up with them but couldn't pass as they were going to fast for me to get a run passed them. So I gave another 2kms behind them doing between 37-39km/hr. Meanwhile the two boys looked back the odd and refused to slow down just 5kms for 30 seconds so I could pass. So I'm behind them a total of 5kms. At this stage I was getting pretty fed up of this. So we came to a hill with a medium incline and about 500 metres long. So the boys started cycling flat out and increased the gap between me and them. Half way up they got tired and I caught up with them. They were still 2 abreast and I decided to keep the throttle at around 35kms. By the time they got to the top of the hill the 2 boys learned there lesson and pulled in fairly quick.
If this was the other way around and a tractor holding up the whole place people would go ape shìt over it. Another thing why do cyclist's tuck in behind tractors and trailers ? Directly out view of mirrors. Happened a friend of mine on a main road. He had to stop suddenly because a car pulled out in front of him on the hard shoulder and the cyclists lamped straight into the trailer.
I know what it is like to be at the receiving end of abuse over holding up the place from people in big D reg Mercs, Audis or BMWs who think they own the road be it a main road or a back road. But from my perspective respect is a 2 way street.

You expect somebody to slow down so you can overtake them?

That's not generally how overtaking works. You overtake vehicles that are slower than you.

Corca Baiscinn

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You expect somebody to slow down so you can overtake them? That's not generally how overtaking works. You overtake vehicles that are slower than you.

In fairness to the OP it can be a bit more complicated than that. When driving I'm often grateful to a truck wihich facilitates an overtake by pulling in briefly to the hard shoulder or the other lane if there is one. I may be able to go faster than the truck but not have the power to overtake in the distance I see to be clear. This can happen for example on a good N road with a long hill.

Anyway while the tme lost over 5 km at 30 V 40 km/h or whatever is marginal I can emphatise with the tractor driver's frustration and cede his right to vent. He was probably working and they were likely on a training-run and unwilling to lose speed on that account. I'm not saying he was right and they wrong and that both were not entitled to be on the road just that in a human sense a bit of frustration is forgiveable.

And he has explained he does know what it's like to be on the receiving end of abuse for "holding up" important cars, so yes the tractor and the bike man can be friends