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Cycling and THAT Late Late Show segment

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    #212
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Why is it harder? You're going to have to cross the white line to pass one cyclist. What difference does it make how far you cross the white line?

    Larger overtaking arc > longer distance required to complete overtake.

    To me this is an extremely simple concept, but more than one person here has me doubting that I have common sense :D


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    #213
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    Corca Baiscinn wrote: »
    In fairness to the OP it can be a bit more complicated than that. When driving I'm often grateful to a truck wihich facilitates an overtake by pulling in briefly to the hard shoulder or the other lane if there is one. I may be able to go faster than the truck but not have the power to overtake in the distance I see to be clear. This can happen for example on a good N road with a long hill.

    Anyway while the tme lost over 5 km at 30 V 40 km/h or whatever is marginal I can emphatise with the tractor driver's frustration and cede his right to vent. He was probably working and they were likely on a training-run and unwilling to lose speed on that account. I'm not saying he was right and they wrong and that both were not entitled to be on the road just that in a human sense a bit of frustration is forgiveable.

    And he has explained he does know what it's like to be on the receiving end of abuse for "holding up" important cars, so yes the tractor and the bike man can be friends

    It wasn't as pronounced as 30kmh v 40kmh, it was 38-40kmh v a top speed of 42kmh while traveling through a village with roundabouts.


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    #214
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,068 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Basil3 wrote: »
    Larger overtaking arc > longer distance required to complete overtake.

    To me this is an extremely simple concept, but more than one person here has me doubting that I have common sense :D

    So what's the impact when you're overtaking at say 40kmph - 1 second longer to overtake maybe?


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    #215
    Vizzy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭Vizzy


    amcalester wrote: »
    It wasn't as pronounced as 30kmh v 40kmh, it was 38-40kmh v a top speed of 42kmh while traveling through a village with roundabouts.

    Where did you get the idea that he was going through a village with roundabouts?


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    #216
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    Vizzy wrote: »
    Where did you get the idea that he was going through a village with roundabouts?
    From kilhefernan roundabout all the way through kilsheelan village and out the other side

    That's what he posted.

    So maybe not roundabouts plural, but definitely 1 and definitely though a village.


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    #217
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    So what's the impact when you're overtaking at say 40kmph - 1 second longer to overtake maybe?

    Who knows? You'd need to be specific. It could easily be several seconds, and be 50+ metres difference, which isn't insignificant.


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    #218
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,592 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Corca Baiscinn wrote: »
    He was probably working and they were likely on a training-run and unwilling to lose speed on that account.
    also worth considering that while i pull in to let tractors, trucks, etc. pass, i'm a lone warrior and it's easy for me to spot a farm gate or similar. a lot more difficult for a group of 6 or 8 or more to individually find spots to allow the vehicle to pass without completely fracturing the group over a few kilometers.


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    #219
    Vizzy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭Vizzy


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    also worth considering that while i pull in to let tractors, trucks, etc. pass, i'm a lone warrior and it's easy for me to spot a farm gate or similar. a lot more difficult for a group of 6 or 8 or more to individually find spots to allow the vehicle to pass without completely fracturing the group over a few kilometers.

    He wasn't talking about 6 or 8 riders though. It was only 2.


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    #220
    PeadarCo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    Vizzy wrote:
    He wasn't talking about 6 or 8 riders though. It was only 2.

    What does it matter if its 2 or 8. Its basic driving if you are behind a slower moving vehicles you take your time and wait for a safe opportunity to pass. Sometimes you might lose a few minutes. But anyone who drives to work at rush hour in nearly any urban area will be delayed far more by other motor vehicles on a daily basis.


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    #221
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,068 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Basil3 wrote: »
    Who knows? You'd need to be specific. It could easily be several seconds, and be 50+ metres difference, which isn't insignificant.
    OK, so the huge insurmountable problem caused by these terrorist gangs of cyclists is that they just might cause overtakes to take a few seconds longer.

    I'm glad we've clarified the scope of the problem.


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    #222
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,995 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    davidk1394 wrote: »
    ... but couldn't pass as they were going to fast for me ....
    You couldn't pass the cyclists because they were going too fast!

    If a car in front of you was going too fast for you to pass, what would you do?

    I'm regularly slowed down by tractors when I'm on the bike but it doesn't bother me. They are entitled to be there and I simply cycle behind them until a safe opportunity arises to pass. I don't expect them to make allowances for me.


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    #223
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    to be fair, if i'm out on a country road and someone driving a large vehicle gets 'caught' behind me and is clearly not the sort of vehicle able to perform a 'normal' overtake - due to size and lack of acceleration, i will pull in to let them pass.
    partly out of politeness, partly from a sense of self-preservation because i don't know what sort of driver is behind the wheel.
    (always good to bear in mind that approximately half of all motorists are below average intelligence).

    When cycling on my own, I do the same if there is a tractor or HGV behind me and I know that they won't get an opportunity to overtake me for some time. If I come across a wide driveway, I signal that I'm pulling in and rotate my right arm to indicate to the driver behind me to overtake. As I pull over onto the driveway, the truck passes and I can then rejoin the road right behind the truck without missing a beat.

    Sometimes it's nice to be nice on the road to other road users.


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    #224
    Vizzy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭Vizzy


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    When cycling on my own, I do the same if there is a tractor or HGV behind me and I know that they won't get an opportunity to overtake me for some time. If I come across a wide driveway, I signal that I'm pulling in and rotate my right arm to indicate to the driver behind me to overtake. As I pull over onto the driveway, the truck passes and I can then rejoin the road right behind the truck without missing a beat.

    Sometimes it's nice to be nice on the road to other road users.

    The voice of common sense - and I say that as someone who has been cycling for a lot more years than I have been driving


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    #225
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    You couldn't pass the cyclists because they were going too fast!

    If a car in front of you was going too fast for you to pass, what would you do?

    I'm regularly slowed down by tractors when I'm on the bike but it doesn't bother me. They are entitled to be there and I simply cycle behind them until a safe opportunity arises to pass. I don't expect them to make allowances for me.

    When driving I hate when I get stuck behind an elderly or learner driver! But what can you do? The way I look at it...I WAS a learner driver and someday, hopefully, I'll be an elderly driver! So I just sit back and overtake if and when I get an opportunity to do so.


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    #226
    Mercian Pro
    Registered Users Posts: 2,296 ✭✭✭Mercian Pro


    Vizzy wrote: »
    The voice of common sense - and I say that as someone who has been cycling for a lot more years than I have been driving

    +1

    Unfortunately, neither common sense nor common courtesy are all that common.


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    #227
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    OK, so the huge insurmountable problem caused by these terrorist gangs of cyclists is that they just might cause overtakes to take a few seconds longer.

    I'm glad we've clarified the scope of the problem.

    I have no idea what you're on about.

    I was engaging in a civil exchange, and you've decided that because you have nothing further to offer, you're just going to resort to some ridiculous sarcastic comment.


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    #228
    Annie get your Run
    Registered Users Posts: 2,831 ✭✭✭Annie get your Run


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    When cycling on my own, I do the same if there is a tractor or HGV behind me and I know that they won't get an opportunity to overtake me for some time. If I come across a wide driveway, I signal that I'm pulling in and rotate my right arm to indicate to the driver behind me to overtake. As I pull over onto the driveway, the truck passes and I can then rejoin the road right behind the truck without missing a beat.

    Sometimes it's nice to be nice on the road to other road users.

    I do this regularly on one of the roads on my commute home - sometimes I end up sitting there for a few mins before I can get back out into the traffic and more often or not you get no thanks for it. It is nice to be nice, however, it's not a given. It may not be safe for the cyclist to pull over and added to that, if you're trying to intimidate them into doing it, well.... Being nice works both ways.


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    #229
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    Annie get your Run wrote: »
    I do this regularly on one of the roads on my commute home - sometimes I end up sitting there for a few mins before I can get back out into the traffic and more often or not you get no thanks for it. It is nice to be nice, however, it's not a given. It may not be safe for the cyclist to pull over and added to that, if you're trying to intimidate them into doing it, well.... Being nice works both ways.

    Every situation is different, but the one common denominator is that I make the decision if and when to pull over. If I felt the driver behind was being aggressive and trying to intimidate me into doing something, then i may act differently.


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    #230
    davidk1394
    Registered Users Posts: 4,126 ✭✭✭davidk1394


    amcalester wrote: »
    As would I, but I wouldn't be in too much of a rush to move aside of a slow moving vehicle while traveling through a village or roundabouts particularly when the difference in speed is so small.

    I wonder if that poster left enough space between the tractor and cyclists to allow the faster vehicles behind him to over take himself.

    I was in a line of about 15-20 vehicles half way back. No vehicle, no car, truck, jeep or bus could pass them until the far side of the village.

    I could have passed them if I wanted by shoving in the hand throttle and just stayed going instead of sitting back for an additional 2 kms.


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    #231
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,450 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Seems to be a bit of a changing story there - first it was you who was stuck behind them unable to overtake, then you were half way back in the line. What was the limit in the village anyway?

    If you were 1st vehicle behind and didn't have the acceleration to overtake, was it really the cyclists causing the line up? If you'd pulled over and let the cars past you, would they have the acceleration to pass the cyclists?


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    #232
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    Seems to be a bit of a changing story there - first it was you who was stuck behind them unable to overtake, then you were half way back in the line. What was the limit in the village anyway?

    If you were 1st vehicle behind and didn't have the acceleration to overtake, was it really the cyclists causing the line up? If you'd pulled over and let the cars past you, would they have the acceleration to pass the cyclists?

    I just had look at Google Maps, and the road between Kilheffernan roundabout and Kilsheelan village has an unbroken white line and traffic calming measures coming into and out from the village so there wouldnt have been space to safely overtake anyway.

    So it reads to me like that poster was just annoyed that the cyclists didn't immediately bow down to him in his bigger tractor.


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    #233
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    davidk1394 wrote: »
    I was in a line of about 15-20 vehicles half way back. No vehicle, no car, truck, jeep or bus could pass them until the far side of the village.

    I could have passed them if I wanted by shoving in the hand throttle and just stayed going instead of sitting back for an additional 2 kms.

    Maybe the driver of the first vehicle directly behind the cyclists was inexperienced? maybe that driver lacked the confidence to overtake? or Maybe, that driver realised that trying to overtake was unsafe and so they waited until the right opportunity to overtake?


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    #234
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,666 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    Every situation is different, but the one common denominator is that I make the decision if and when to pull over. If I felt the driver behind was being aggressive and trying to intimidate me into doing something, then i may act differently.

    Can I add to this - I think your point is well made regarding who makes the decision; in addition, in situations where I do this its as often for my own safety as for courtesy - its for both really.

    A good example would be at Clonliffe Road. I cycle on to it. Cyclists are by definition almost going to be first through the lights when they turn green.

    I really dont enjoy cycling along that long straight narrow lane road with 10/12 cars behind me all waiting to overtake, in a hurry to get home.

    So often, I cross the road and then pull over and let them all pass. Of course I pass them all again at the lights at the far end of the road, its actually not time saving to them. But its easier for me, albeit slightly slower.


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    #235
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,592 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i tried clonliffe road once as an option on my commute - i've not used it since. it's one of those roads where motorists assume there's two lanes at lights, with nothing to indicate there are two lanes.


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    #236
    mr spuckler
    Registered Users Posts: 3,113 ✭✭✭mr spuckler


    mr spuckler wrote:
    tbf i'd expect it may well be harder if you're also trying to allow 1.5 metres between the car and the outermost cyclist (thinking country road example here).
    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Why is it harder? You're going to have to cross the white line to pass one cyclist. What difference does it make how far you cross the white line?

    the width of the roadway.
    that's why i specifically said on a country road. the original comment is a few pages back now but it referred to cyclists being 3 or 4 abreast on a country road. this being the case they'd be taking up the entire lane out to the white line. so even if the car crosses as far as they possibly can it's unlikely that there would be 1.5m of space between the car and the outside bike.


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    #237
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    mr spuckler wrote: »
    the width of the roadway.
    that's why i specifically said on a country road. the original comment is a few pages back now but it referred to cyclists being 3 or 4 abreast on a country road. this being the case they'd be taking up the entire lane out to the white line. so even if the car crosses as far as they possibly can it's unlikely that there would be 1.5m of space between the car and the outside bike.

    What...like this lot?...

    qnozrsdnxfwx.png


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    #238
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    That groups is a disgrace, 7 abreast!!


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    #239
    mr spuckler
    Registered Users Posts: 3,113 ✭✭✭mr spuckler


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    What...like this lot?...

    i was answering the very specific question below and gave an example where in my opinion it would be. and that doesn't look much like the narrow Irish country roads i'm familiar with!
    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Is it any harder to pass a group 3-4 abreast than 2 abreast?


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    #240
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    mr spuckler wrote: »
    nope, the specific comment was along the lines of "even if they were actually 3 or 4 abreast, it should make no difference to how you overtake them"

    Which is correct. If it's not safe to overtake, don't!


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    #241
    mr spuckler
    Registered Users Posts: 3,113 ✭✭✭mr spuckler


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    Which is correct. If it's not safe to overtake, don't!

    I may be doing so in a clumsy way but that's the point I'm trying to make!

    see updated post above and the original question I was responding to, which related to the discussion a few pages ago.


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