Help wiring a Netatmo thermostat

flogen

Hey there,

I'm looking to replace my old wired (mains powered) controls with a Netatmo thermostat but I'm having a bit of trouble with the wiring.

As you can see from the attached photos, there's no black/grey wiring so I can't tell which ones should go into the thermo or relay.

I don't mind whether I wire the relay or the thermo to the boiler but I'd like to be able to use the wiring that's already there if I can. Can anyone help me in getting this right?

Thanks in advance!

tnegun

From what I see you just have a neutral, live and switched live at your current controller. I'm not familiar with Netatmo but if it switches 220v the output of the relay should go to brown wire currently on terminal 4 in your second photo.

Do you have other thermostats in the house? I'm wondering if the cable on terminal 4 goes straight to your boiler or via some thermostats. Have you zone valves? What terminals are on the back of the Netamo?

flogen

tnegun wrote: »

From what I see you just have a neutral, live and switched live at your current controller. I'm not familiar with Netatmo but if it switches 220v the output of the relay should go to brown wire currently on terminal 4 in your second photo.

Do you have other thermostats in the house? I'm wondering if the cable on terminal 4 goes straight to your boiler or via some thermostats. Have you zone valves? What terminals are on the back of the Netamo?

I’ve no other thermostat or zones.

The back of the Netatmo itself has two terminals for the Control wires - it’s battery powered so no power (live/neutral) terminals.

That being said I do have the option of wiring the relay to the boiler instead - that has two control wires (grey and black) and two power wires (brown and blue). I don’t mind which I wire to the boiler -whatever makes the most sense given my current set up

Stoner

flogen wrote:

That being said I do have the option of wiring the relay to the boiler instead - that has two control wires (grey and black) and two power wires (brown and blue). I don’t mind which I wire to the boiler -whatever makes the most sense given my current set up

If you email them with a picture of your cabling and the name of the boiler they'll help you, it's in them manual

tnegun

If thats all you have you just need the relay to switch the live to the brown wire currently connected to terminal 4. You can loose the jumper cable between L and 2 and keep both of the brown wires at L connected together.

flogen

Stoner wrote: »

flogen wrote:

That being said I do have the option of wiring the relay to the boiler instead - that has two control wires (grey and black) and two power wires (brown and blue). I don’t mind which I wire to the boiler -whatever makes the most sense given my current set up

If you email them with a picture of your cabling and the name of the boiler they'll help you, it's in them manual

I’ve done that but got a mail back saying they’re dealing with a high volume of queries so there’ll be a delay in responding. That was almost a week ago so not sure how much longer I’ll be left waiting!

flogen

tnegun wrote: »

If thats all you have you just need the relay to switch the live to the brown wire currently connected to terminal 4. You can loose the jumper cable between L and 2 and keep both of the brown wires at L connected together.

Okay, that sounds straight-forward enough!

bk

flogen wrote: »

That being said I do have the option of wiring the relay to the boiler instead - that has two control wires (grey and black) and two power wires (brown and blue). I don’t mind which I wire to the boiler -whatever makes the most sense given my current set up

Your best bet here is to ignore the old controller and instead wire the Netatmo relay directly into the boiler, since your boiler sounds straight forward and compatible with the relay. The Netatmo Thermostat would then be used wireless.

Check the Netatmo manual for how to do this. They also have very good viedos on how to do this on their site.

WARNING make sure to cut off power to your boiler first. Safety first.

Stoner

bk wrote:

Your best bet here is to ignore the old controller and instead wire the Netatmo relay directly into the boiler, since your boiler sounds straight forward and compatible with the relay. The Netatmo Thermostat would then be used wireless.

Good advice.

TBH I'm not sure the netamo switches 230V

The documents I saw were all about connecting to the existing Low voltage Thermostat connections (the grey white connection you talk about)
Or they talk about finding the remote stat terminals on the boiler.


You'll most likely have no stat connections at that switch, you have a permanent supply to the boiler and a switched 230V live to the boiler.

You boiler might have a built in stat. And you'd need to identify these terminals (remote stat)


I could be wrong but the netamo is possibly not the easiest of these systems to connect. That's why they give you leads etc to install it near to your boiler and power it from the existing spur switch.

Their documentation is difficult to read imo. Its developed around the popular UK boilers

However all the connections you need should be at the boiler including permanent 230V for the relay. This should be supplied via a switched fused spur protected with a 5 amp fuse.

flogen

bk wrote: »

Your best bet here is to ignore the old controller and instead wire the Netatmo relay directly into the boiler, since your boiler sounds straight forward and compatible with the relay. The Netatmo Thermostat would then be used wireless.

Check the Netatmo manual for how to do this. They also have very good viedos on how to do this on their site.

WARNING make sure to cut off power to your boiler first. Safety first.

I’m starting to think that would be the cleaner way of going about it.

If I disconnect the old wiring at the boiler, cover off what’s left on the Control side (with a junction box maybe) and keep its fuse switch off I’m assuming that will ensure there’s no danger with what’s left in the wall?

getoffthepot

a lot of info in this thread.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=101161370

flogen

Stoner wrote: »

Good advice.

TBH I'm not sure the netamo switches 230V

The documents I saw were all about connecting to the existing Low voltage Thermostat connections (the grey white connection you talk about)
Or they talk about finding the remote stat terminals on the boiler.


You'll most likely have no stat connections at that switch, you have a permanent supply to the boiler and a switched 230V live to the boiler.

You boiler might have a built in stat. And you'd need to identify these terminals (remote stat)


I could be wrong but the netamo is possibly not the easiest of these systems to connect. That's why they give you leads etc to install it near to your boiler and power it from the existing spur switch.

Their documentation is difficult to read imo. Its developed around the popular UK boilers

However all the connections you need should be at the boiler including permanent 230V for the relay. This should be supplied via a switched fused spur protected with a 5 amp fuse.

Thanks. Planning on having a look at the boiler side tomorrow, hopefully it’s relatively clear which terminal is which.

flogen

So I've had a fairly frustrating hour or so at the boiler but no sign of this working.

Here's the power and control terminals that the old controls were wired to and that I connected the relay to... but when I switched the power back on there was no sign of life at the boiler (or the relay itself).

Usually the boiler goes through a cycle when it starts up but nothing happened at all - and pressing the button on the relay (that's meant to fire the boiler) did nothing either.

I feared for a minute that I'd done something unintentional and knackered the whole boiler but once I rewired the old controls everything worked fine.

Maybe a stupid question but could it be that the wiring for the old controls is providing power to the boiler? If so is there a straight-forward way to fix it or would I need to get the whole boiler rewired?

I didn't think of taking a picture but the wiring from the old controls seem fairly convoluted - they go from the boiler itself to a terminal block, which in turn seems to run up to another terminal block and then up through the ceiling towards the controls.

tnegun

Does the live and neutral from the white block just continue on to the green block? If so I dont think you don't have a stat or control terminals just a switched mains voltage to the boiler from the old controller.

flogen

tnegun wrote: »

Does the live and neutral from the white block just continue on to the green block? If so I dont think you don't have a stat or control terminals just a switched mains voltage to the boiler from the old controller.

No, they’re both separate wires that run to the same terminal block, which leads out of the boiler, into the ceiling and on to the old controls

tnegun

Ok from what I can see your old controller is just switching mains it looks like that just comes back from the controller to the boiler on the green terminal firing it.

Did you have any luck figuring out if the Netamo can switch mains voltage?

enfant terrible

More info here

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103139656&postcount=532

flogen

tnegun wrote: »

Ok from what I can see your old controller is just switching mains it looks like that just comes back from the controller to the boiler on the green terminal firing it.

Did you have any luck figuring out if the Netamo can switch mains voltage?

enfant terrible wrote: »

More info here

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103139656&postcount=532

So does that mean I wire one of the black/grey cables to the green terminal and the other in with the brown/live on the other terminal?

Currently trying to figure out if it can switch mains voltage or not.

tnegun

I think so. Do you have a multimeter?

flogen

tnegun wrote: »

I think so. Do you have a multimeter?

Nope - but I've been planning on getting one, so I suppose now's as good a time as any. What am I looking for?

tnegun

If its possible to view those green terminals safely with the mains live you want to see what voltage is across them when the boiler is off and when running. I suspect off will be 0 and running 230.

I'm still a bit unclear on how your boiler is wired so maybe try explain it from the fused spur. On mine its fused spur to controller and then via some stats/ zone valves back to the boiler.

Yours seems to be boiler to controller from the white connector block and back from the controller to the boiler on the green?

flogen

tnegun wrote: »

If its possible to view those green terminals safely with the mains live you want to see what voltage is across them when the boiler is off and when running. I suspect off will be 0 and running 230.

I'm still a bit unclear on how your boiler is wired so maybe try explain it from the fused spur. On mine its fused spur to controller and then via some stats/ zone valves back to the boiler.

Yours seems to be boiler to controller from the white connector block and back from the controller to the boiler on the green?

Just getting around to doing this (the way the place is wired means I have to kill every plug downstairs to power off the boiler!).

As you suspected the green terminal is running 0 when off and 230 when running.

Here's the block the wiring is running into - as you can see the blue is split between the power and control terminals.

That wiring runs up the top of the boiler to another terminal, which I tried to get a photo of too... though I could only really see one side.

By the way there's a fuse switch beside my current controls - when that's off it seems to kill power to the boiler... not sure if that complicates matters but any thoughts as to how I go about wiring this would be appreciated!

tnegun

I can't really tell from the pics but going back to the first images you posted from the back of the time clock I think you just need to switch the live to the brown wire on pin 4. That way you can avoid messing with the internal wiring of the boiler as it appears you don't have a stat link to use internally anyway.

Did you figure out if the Netamo can switch 230v? I had a quick look at the install guide and I think it can but you really need to confirm it with them.

flogen

tnegun wrote: »

I can't really tell from the pics but going back to the first images you posted from the back of the time clock I think you just need to switch the live to the brown wire on pin 4. That way you can avoid messing with the internal wiring of the boiler as it appears you don't have a stat link to use internally anyway.

So you think it’s just best to wire the thermostat rather than the relay?

Did you figure out if the Netamo can switch 230v? I had a quick look at the install guide and I think it can but you really need to confirm it with them.

Not yet - waiting for a reply from their support team.

punisher5112

I wired up with using live coming into time clock at 230v and used the switch wire to boiler to control.


Basically use mains 230v and blue neutral.


Then the two cables to the boiler...

Your netatamo now becomes the thermostat you never had.


The hardwire set up links directly to the WiFi then your thermostat if i recall right.

I don't have unit set up any more as moved houses as it was a rental I set it up in.

tnegun

From the quick look I had a the Netamo stuff is the relay not just for remote control? Its an rf relay and the switching relay is in the stat? Or have I got it arseways!

punisher5112

The unit that has the display controls it all.

J.pilkington

@ OP did you get it working?

What type of boiler have you? It’s been designed to be plug and play for a limited number of gas boilers, anything outside their list of comparable boilers needs a bit of innovation that a diy person will struggle with. As far as I understand the netatmo relay does not give the 230v outage required to fire the boiler, old style timer clocks do so it’s not a like for like replacement.

flogen

punisher5112 wrote: »

I wired up with using live coming into time clock at 230v and used the switch wire to boiler to control.


Basically use mains 230v and blue neutral.


Then the two cables to the boiler...

Your netatamo now becomes the thermostat you never had.


The hardwire set up links directly to the WiFi then your thermostat if i recall right.

I don't have unit set up any more as moved houses as it was a rental I set it up in.

So I wire what’s currently going to L in one terminal in the Netatmo unit? If so do I wire the two at L together or just use one of them?

And then it’s the wire going to N in the other?

flogen

J.pilkington wrote: »

@ OP did you get it working?

What type of boiler have you? It’s been designed to be plug and play for a limited number of gas boilers, anything outside their list of comparable boilers needs a bit of innovation that a diy person will struggle with. As far as I understand the netatmo relay does not give the 230v outage required to fire the boiler, old style timer clocks do so it’s not a like for like replacement.

Not yet. Waiting to see if Netatmo support can give me a definitive answer on the relay.

It’s a Vokera Vibe 25a. May just cut my losses and get an electrician in if I can’t crack it soon.

punisher5112

How many wires are in the original set up?

Is there a hot water zone or just the one clock does all so to speak.


If one zone the netatamo is ideal.

Basically you will have your 230v supply and blue neutral.

These two should be connected to power the netatamo unit with the tales( cable ) attached then the WiFi unit plugs into the front of this when you fix it to a wall or timber fixing etc...

You should then have the 2 control cables going to the boiler as this unit acts as a switch it's just replacing the old style clock which was the switch.

As soon as you link it and put batteries into the thermostat you will be up and running and the stand alone thermostat will control the boiler whether it comes on or not.

flogen

punisher5112 wrote: »

How many wires are in the original set up?

Four if you discount the bridging wire

Is there a hot water zone or just the one clock does all so to speak.


If one zone the netatamo is ideal.

It’s all just one zone, no separate hot water etc.

Basically you will have your 230v supply and blue neutral.

These two should be connected to power the netatamo unit with the tales( cable ) attached then the WiFi unit plugs into the front of this when you fix it to a wall or timber fixing etc...

You should then have the 2 control cables going to the boiler as this unit acts as a switch it's just replacing the old style clock which was the switch.

As soon as you link it and put batteries into the thermostat you will be up and running and the stand alone thermostat will control the boiler whether it comes on or not.

Ah, so you’re saying to wire the WiFi relay at the wall where my current controls are (rather than directly into the boiler) and then connect the thermostat wirelessly?

Maybe a stupid question but how did you fix the WiFi unit to that wall? Did you just use the sticky pad that comes with it?

tnegun

I think thats the confusion calling the Wireless link to the Netamo thermostat a relay its a comms relay as opposed to a relay switch which is what the Netamo thermostat is.

Lookis at that pic I would do the following, keep the 2 lives together from L and loose the bridging wire you need those 2 live feeds on one side of the Netamo thermostat and the switched live from terminal 4 on the other.

If the Netamo switches 230v (I think it can from reading here and elsewhere) when calling for heat it the boiler will fire.

flogen

tnegun wrote: »

I think thats the confusion calling the Wireless link to the Netamo thermostat a relay its a comms relay as opposed to a relay switch which is what the Netamo thermostat is.

Lookis at that pic I would do the following, keep the 2 lives together from L and loose the bridging wire you need those 2 live feeds on one side of the Netamo thermostat and the switched live from terminal 4 on the other.

If the Netamo switches 230v (I think it can from reading here and elsewhere) when calling for heat it the boiler will fire.

Okay... so I keep the two Ls together and put it in one terminal for the thermostat and then put 4 in the other? Given the Netatmo is battery powered I wasn’t sure if it should have a live going into it.

In the above scenario I’d plug the wireless box (the Comms relay as you say) into the wall, close off the neutral wire that’s left loose and I should be good to go?

punisher5112

You can keep your time clock as a switch if you like and have it as a back up to switch it all off.


Live wire coming from board which is the permanent live and neutral along with it are connected to the brown and blue 230v tails of WiFi controls.

Then the other two cables go to boiler.

punisher5112

flogen wrote: »

Okay... so I keep the two Ls together and put it in one terminal for the thermostat and then put 4 in the other? Given the Netatmo is battery powered I wasn’t sure if it should have a live going into it.

In the above scenario I’d plug the wireless box (the Comms relay as you say) into the wall, close off the neutral wire that’s left loose and I should be good to go?

Where your time clock is use the unit with 4 wires.

2 are white which are the cables to connect to the cables coming from your boiler.
2 others should be brown live and blue neutral.

Connect these in a connector block and place in a junction box or leave the time clock on and drill a whole in the side or create a whole in the plaster board to bring the cable in through the rear.

punisher5112

So in picture number 1 you will see the thermostat which acts now as your switch.
When the temperature is set at say 19° it will not send a signal to turn on unless the temperature drops below you will actually here it click and then the boiler will get it's signal to the WiFi unit which you see better in picture number 2.

I left the time clock and just connect the cables at the rear in its back box.

flogen

punisher5112 wrote: »

flogen wrote: »

Okay... so I keep the two Ls together and put it in one terminal for the thermostat and then put 4 in the other? Given the Netatmo is battery powered I wasn’t sure if it should have a live going into it.

In the above scenario I’d plug the wireless box (the Comms relay as you say) into the wall, close off the neutral wire that’s left loose and I should be good to go?

Where your time clock is use the unit with 4 wires.

2 are white which are the cables to connect to the cables coming from your boiler.
2 others should be brown live and blue neutral.

Connect these in a connector block and place in a junction box or leave the time clock on and drill a whole in the side or create a whole in the plaster board to bring the cable in through the rear.

Not quite - whoever wired my old controls up used any old wire.

As you’ll see in the picture linked below, I have a blue wire going to neutral, two brown wires going to live and another brown going to ‘4’, which I assume is a control wire for the boiler:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=438555&d=1515869102

My controls are also in the sitting room, so whatever way I wire it I’ll need it to look neat... hence me trying to see how I’ll mount the WiFi relay if I do wire it that way

punisher5112

When you wire it up keep the 2 brown in L together as the one that isn't live when you split is most likely going to boiler as frost protection if fitted.

The brown at 4 is your switch cable to the boiler.

Before you remove cables number them or mark them with a bit of tape or marker.

Write down where each were so you don't get mixed up.

tnegun

flogen wrote: »

Okay... so I keep the two Ls together and put it in one terminal for the thermostat and then put 4 in the other? Given the Netatmo is battery powered I wasn’t sure if it should have a live going into it.

In the above scenario I’d plug the wireless box (the Comms relay as you say) into the wall, close off the neutral wire that’s left loose and I should be good to go?

This is exactly what I would do, it has to switch the live so needs the permenant live(2 brown wires from L) on one terminal and the switched live (brown wire on terminal 4) . Plug in the wireless relay and follow the instructions for getting it on your network and stick a block connector on the loose neutral so that its not exposed. As punisher says mark or label the wires so that you can back out quickly if needed.

flogen

Thanks all - I wired the thermostat as suggested and everything seems to be working as it should (once I got passed some DNS issues with the WiFi!).

Appreciate all your help in figuring it out

punisher5112

flogen wrote: »

Thanks all - I wired the thermostat as suggested and everything seems to be working as it should (once I got passed some DNS issues with the WiFi!).

Appreciate all your help in figuring it out

Great result....

You won't regret it and will actually save a nice bit on heating bills as you now have full control.

flogen

punisher5112 wrote: »

Great result....

You won't regret it and will actually save a nice bit on heating bills as you now have full control.

Hopefully - though being able to control it remotely and get away from cycling between too cold and too hot all the time were probably the main reasons for getting it. If it saves me a few quid that’s a bonus!

punisher5112

flogen wrote: »

Hopefully - though being able to control it remotely and get away from cycling between too cold and too hot all the time were probably the main reasons for getting it. If it saves me a few quid that’s a bonus!

It is a great system and you will find it is something you will wonder how you done without.

I had it in our last rental and it meant the other one didn't have the heating left on all day or when nobody was at home.

Saved big time there.

Also having the away function is great and then been able to switch it on at times you set or even if you know you will be back early you can have it on before you arrive back.