Vegans are so touchy

Snickers Man

"Show me a vegan and I'll show you a face full of zits!"

Ruby Wax

El_Duderino 09

My Mrs is vegetarian (pescatarian to be precise) and she never brings it up, but you’d be surprised at how the converstend to go.

If she’s in a restaurant with friends or the canteen in work and orders vegetarian option:

A. Why are you eating that? Are you vegetarian or something?
B. Yeah I’m vegetarian
A. But you eat chicken, right?
B. Nope
A. Wouldn’t you have a steak?
B. No I’m vegetarian.
A. Why?
B. I just don’t like the idea of killing animals so I don’t eat meat...
A. STOP trying to convert me! Jesus, you vegetarians as all so preachy! Maybe if you had a bacon sandwich you wouldn’t be so cranky. Ha ha.

In fact she goes on the nights out with mates and ends up with the plain pasta sauce, goats cheese tartlet or veggie burger. She doesn’t really like it but it’s not worth causing a fuss and she still gets sh1t from time to time.

I don’t think I’ve ever been lectured by a vegetarian/vegan. It might say more about you or your choice of friends if you keep getting into conversations about it

yerwanthere123

Mutant z wrote: »

If its your thing then great im happy for you just dont force it onto others thats all i love my meat and i wont be told by anyone otherwise whether i should eat it or not.

Well someone didn't read the thread :pac:

TrustedApple

Good few of my firends are vegan.

They don't rub it in your face just expect them to cook vegan food for when your at there house.

To be fair vegan food done right is extramly nice. I would have no issues becoming a vegan in a place like London where vegan stuff is a lot easyer to get and way more options to eat out then in say cork where it's next to impossible.

Snickers Man

Snickers Man wrote: »

"Show me a vegan and I'll show you a face full of zits!"

Ruby Wax

Both my daughters are vegan (& Irish) and look like Rosie Huntington Whitley (google) with glowing skin and hair and are very sporty : one does triathlons, one is on a provincial team ..... then again maybe it’s just good genes :D

Dakota Dan

Deleted User wrote: »

I’m not a vegan but in my opinion vegans have every right to enlighten us as to the uncomfortable realities behind how the meat and animal products we eat are produced. These animals have emotions and the capacity to suffer like we do, even if they lack the capacity for higher level thinking, anticipation of death etc. that we possess. Therefore, if inflicting “unnecessary” harm is immoral, veganism is more moral than “carnism”, especially as it is perfectly possible to obtain adequate nourishment on a vegan diet, (at least it is nowadays).

From reading about human prehistory it seems that our ancestors did eat meat and that an optimal diet for us contains at least some meat. But for most people it just boils down to that they don’t value the mitigating of animals’ suffering enough to forgo doing something they enjoy a lot ie. eating meat. And the fact that nowadays you can separate in your mind the slaughtering of the animal and the picking up the meat in the supermarket and cooking it, makes it much easier to compartmentalise and rationalise the continuing of eating meat.

So you've no problem with vegans highlighting animal cruelty even though the majority of what they say is lies.

Dakota Dan

Deleted User wrote: »

Both my daughters are vegan (& Irish) and look like Rosie Huntington Whitley (google) with glowing skin and hair and are very sporty : one does triathlons, one is on a provincial team ..... then again maybe it’s just good genes :D

Any older vegans I know are gaunt and pale with thinning hair. One example would be the fella earthling Ed, he isn't a great advertisement for the diet he's pushing.

Dakota Dan

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Any older vegans I know are gaunt and pale with thinning hair. One example would be the fella earthling Ed, he isn't a great advertisement for the diet he's pushing.

I think that’s called ageing ??

seamus

Dakota Dan wrote: »

So board Bia advertising their products is forcing people to eat meat is that what you are trying to say?

You can be as dishonest as you like, but your words are up there for all to see:

Dakota Dan wrote: »

do you ever see meat eaters preaching about how everyone should eat meat.

That's exactly what Bord Bia do. It's basically the only reason they exist, to put out advertisements telling people to eat Irish farming products.

It's easy when you eat meat to be completely blind to the bombardment of doctrine about eating meat. It's only when you step out of that mindset that you realise how heavily ingrained that brainwashing is and how people will fight to defend it, even when it's not under attack.

eviltwin

Snickers Man wrote: »

"Show me a vegan and I'll show you a face full of zits!"

Ruby Wax

Actually my skin has never looked better since I went vegan. I was suffering from cystic acne, horrible stuff. Haven't had any breakouts at all since I changed my diet.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Jawgap

KwackerJack wrote: »

.......
Vegan Person :

**** you : In a distant future all mankind will be vegan and ignorant people like you will be a smelly meat eating race that dwells in the sewers eating rats"

.....

Think that was a plot from Judge Dredd in 2000AD in the early editions - it doesn't sound so bad, as long as I get to be Judge Dredd

Hector Bellend

I find that eating a big fat juicy steak in front of them usually has the desired effect.

I love steak.

davidk1394

There is a lot of radical vegans who just loose their shìt about meat eaters and delight in seeing farm animals die and seeing the farms fail. There ones who are the fùckers who are the trouble

Tilikum17

TrustedApple wrote: »

Good few of my firends are vegan.

They don't rub it in your face just expect them to cook vegan food for when your at there house.

To be fair vegan food done right is extramly nice. I would have no issues becoming a vegan in a place like London where vegan stuff is a lot easyer to get and way more options to eat out then in say cork where it's next to impossible.

Cork is excellent for vegan food.

erica74

I'm a meat eater, I love meat and I will continue to eat meat for the rest of my life. I don't really care who is vegetarian or vegan as long as they don't shove it down my throat and go on rants about it and I advance vegetarians and vegans that same courtesy.

I don't understand anyone who singles out anyone on the internet, or specifically on social media, just to have this sort of argument and then gets annoyed when they're challenged.

Tilikum17

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Any older vegans I know are gaunt and pale with thinning hair. One example would be the fella earthling Ed, he isn't a great advertisement for the diet he's pushing.

Yes, because older meat eaters all have lovely tans & a full head of hair.

As I said earlier in the thread, I went out with 15 couples in December. 90% of my mates are overweight & balding. All around the 40 mark.

They’re all meat eaters, yet they try to slag me for going vegan.

I’m slim & I have full head of hair.

Checkmate.

Dakota Dan

Deleted User wrote: »

I think that’s called ageing ??

He's around late 20's early 30's and it's called malnourishment.

eviltwin

Dakota Dan wrote: »

He's around late 20's early 30's and it's called malnourishment.

he's clearly not taking care of himself but that's not exclusive to vegans.

Dakota Dan

seamus wrote: »

You can be as dishonest as you like, but your words are up there for all to see:

That's exactly what Bord Bia do. It's basically the only reason they exist, to put out advertisements telling people to eat Irish farming products.

It's easy when you eat meat to be completely blind to the bombardment of doctrine about eating meat. It's only when you step out of that mindset that you realise how heavily ingrained that brainwashing is and how people will fight to defend it, even when it's not under attack.

You seem to have trouble between understanding advertising and preaching. Vegans can by all means advertise their food but all they do is preach. BTW board Bia even have vegan meals, like I said previously put up a link where board Bia are preaching.

dr.fuzzenstein

Well, on the topic of people complaining about vegans posting stuff on FB pertaining to them being vegan.
I have friends who are into cars, they post about cars. Other friends are into music, guess what? They post about music.
I also have friends who hate Muslims and they post nonstop bile and hate about them. I have unfollowed them.
So we can see a pattern emerging. Everyone posts about their interests. I myself post regularly on what a massive cnut Trump is.

As for vegans trying to raise awareness that in order for you to have that lovely Sunday roast, something has to die, I am all for it.
I am a meat eater, I love meat, going without would be horribly difficult for me. But I appreciate the fact animals have to be born into captivity to be killed and that this practice takes a heavy toll on the environment as well.

Last Christmas (I gave you my heart) on a German Xmax market, there was a stall selling geese. If you wanted one, you had to watch as the goose was killed.
I believe that if people had to watch their dinner being slaughtered, most of us would be vegan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WrNxMRm6Wk

Jawgap

I like my meat - and I'm in no mind to change, but I always wonder how many of us would retain our carnivorous habits if we could only eat what we killed and dressed ourselves?

FWIW, I'd be fine - I do a small bit of hunting (I only shoot for the pot) so I can (somewhat badly) gut, skin and prepare a carcase

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Hande hoche!

Jawgap wrote: »

I like my meat - and I'm in no mind to change, but I always wonder how many of us would retain our carnivorous habits if we could only eat what we killed and dressed ourselves?

FWIW, I'd be fine - I do a small bit of hunting (I only shoot for the pot) so I can (somewhat badly) gut, skin and prepare a carcase

People would get less selective about the cut of meat and more inventive with how they cook. We have a lamb in the freezer at the moment. Which encourages to try different techniques e.g. slow and low curry made with neck.

loveisdivine

I've read through all the comments and one thing I want to ask is, what "agenda" do you actually think we have? Do you think we want to see all farmers jobless and homeless? Do you think we're working for big broccoli?

The only agenda we have is to try and reduce cruelty and suffering and increase compassion and respect for all species.

Oh and for the person that doesn't agree with pro-vegan advertisements, what do you think it's like being constantly surrounded by ads for meat? On the tv, on billboards, whether it's for somewhere like Burger King, or some ad telling us to choose Irish Pork with a big slab of flesh across the ad for good measure.

dr.fuzzenstein

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I believe that if people had to watch their dinner being slaughtered, most of us would be vegan

Jawgap wrote: »

I always wonder how many of us would retain our carnivorous habits if we could only eat what we killed and dressed ourselves?

I am somewhat agnostic on the effect that would have. I hunt and kill my own rabbit and fish for example. It has never bothered me. My 7 year old daughter works on that with me too. It has never bothered her either. We keep chickens and geese and a few other animals which sometimes we have had slaughtered. Again it has not bothered me or her. Nor has it when we have gone pheasant hunting in the UK with family and friends there.

Actually seeing slaughter would affect some people sure - but I am somewhat agnostic about how many - and rather suspicious of words even approaching "most". I have a feeling a lot less people would be affected than we think. Especially if they are acclimatised to it from a young age.

In my experience the more vocal vegan and vegetarian groups tend more often to show footage of how animals are kept - rather than how they are slaughtered - too. Which suggests to me that they too feel that the former is going to change a lot more minds than the latter. So I wonder if they are all that convinced by the idea of seeing the slaughter will affect people.

But certainly I love the idea of eroding that ignorance and not hiding how meat is produced and killed.

Jawgap

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Indeed there isn't but it's an interesting idea/concept to ponder?

If we were faced with the full cost/consequences of our decisions as consumers would we still make them?

Btw, I'm not saying I do that - I'll still gladly eat my beef, fish etc and drive my car (I do cycle) and spend stupid amounts of money on over-specc'ed technology I really don't need

Jawgap

Hande hoche! wrote: »

People would get less selective about the cut of meat and more inventive with how they cook. We have a lamb in the freezer at the moment. Which encourages to try different techniques e.g. slow and low curry made with neck.

A mate of mine is a butcher and he was telling us, during the downturn, how people stopped essentially just buying fillet steak and started looking for more value cuts.....

......likewise a couple of the restaurants he supplied started looking for certain 'cheap' cuts (beef, lamb and pork) that people didn't generally go for....so much so he had to drag his Dad out of retirement to get a refresher course on preparing some of those cuts!

seamus

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Vegans can by all means advertise their food but all they do is preach.

You're the only person who seems to be "preaching" here?

I have literally never heard a vegan "preach" on the topic except when invited to.

I continually hear meat-eaters preaching and whining about how preachy and judgemental vegans are, even when nobody has asked them about it. Just like you're doing.

Like I say, it's a form of brainwashing, you're so deeply invested in the notion that meat is essential, that you cannot comprehend that someone would choose not to, and apparently see it as so grave an assault on your persona that you believe vegans are always "preaching" about it, even though they're not.

I have a number of vegans on my facebook feed. I have never once seen them "preach". On the other hand I continually see ads, videos and memes on my facebook feed extolling the greatness of bacon and making fun of vegans.

I know who's "preaching". And it's not vegans.

Anyway, here you go, here's Bord Bia telling people to eat meat:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86X0abGN3yU

And here's an anti-vegan ad produced by the NDC:
http://img2.thejournal.ie/inline/3696927/original/?width=630&version=3696927

Hande hoche!

Jawgap wrote: »

A mate of mine is a butcher and he was telling us, during the downturn, how people stopped essentially just buying fillet steak and started looking for more value cuts.....

......likewise a couple of the restaurants he supplied started looking for certain 'cheap' cuts (beef, lamb and pork) that people didn't generally go for....so much so he had to drag his Dad out of retirement to get a refresher course on preparing some of those cuts!

That makes a lot of sense. From an environmental and ethical standpoint, it's probably better to develop a taste for the 'cheap' cuts indeed. Likewise encourage vegans to eat European foods rather than items flown in from half way around the world. This thread has inspired me to pick up some liver for the first time this year.

dr.fuzzenstein

Patww79 wrote: »

Same as I don't build my own modes of transport or make and stitch my own garments, there's no need to kill your own dinner. We're a modern society.

It's not so much about "need".
Few people would be disgusted and traumatized if they had to stitch their own garment or put the engine in their own car. Or even just watch. Even fewer would say " I never wear clothes or drive a car again".
Killing an animal is something fundamentally different. I'm willing to bet most people couldn't do it.
As I said earlier, I do eat meat, I absolutely love it, but I do feel conflicted about it.
The problem is that in today's society people eat way too much meat, damaging the environment and their own health.
I'm all for at least reducing meat consumption, we don't immediately have to all become vegan.

Jawgap

Hande hoche! wrote: »

That makes a lot of sense. From an environmental and ethical standpoint, it's probably better to develop a taste for the 'cheap' cuts indeed. Likewise encourage vegans to eat European foods rather than items flown in from half way around the world. This thread has inspired me to pick up some liver for the first time this year.

mmmmmm......liver and onions, with chips

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Hande hoche!

Jawgap wrote: »

mmmmmm......liver and onions, with chips

That's lunch sorted. Ta for the suggestion.

Jawgap

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Meat requires huge quantities of water to rear, and we end up growing huge quantities of grain to feed to those animals to get them to put on the protein we enjoy.

I'm all for meat consumption, but I prefer mine to come from local, low intensity farms.

There's also the question of 'seasonality' - that's essentially gone from our food chain now. you can get strawbs year round, for example.

Snickers Man

I love vegan food.

It's an excellent accompaniment to meat.

Dakota Dan

Dakota Dan wrote: »

He's around late 20's early 30's and it's called malnourishment.

Jeez you must be very young if you call late 20's older!

Thinning hair is a Celtic curse boy - just look around you! Most men by the time they hit mid thirties are thinning and receding........Americans by comparison have fantastic hair. I don't think this is a vegan thing.

Also as another poster said you can be malnourished no what who you are! Nothing to do with being vegan or a meat eater.

donegal.

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Few people would be disgusted and traumatized if .............. Or even just watch. Even fewer would say " I never wear clothes or drive a car again".
.

if you ever seen how our mass produced, cheap cloths (or most other consumer products) are made I'd imagine it affect you to an even greater extent .

Hande hoche!

donegal. wrote: »

if you ever seen how our mass produced, cheap cloths (or most other consumer products) are made I'd imagine it affect you to an even greater extent .

Reading up on what happened at Rana Plaza is chilling, also Foxconn in China. Quite unnerving how much suffering goes into everyday products.

dr.fuzzenstein

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

OK, you couldn't see the difference between sewing a shirt and putting a car together to slaughtering an animal. I'll just leave that there.
But to honestly state that you don't believe that producing meat has no environmental impact? We're in flat earther territory.

http://www.worldwatch.org/node/549

A report from the International Water Management Institute, noting that 840 million of the world’s people remain undernourished, recommends finding ways to produce more food using less water. The report notes that it takes 550 liters of water to produce enough flour for one loaf of bread in developing countries…but up to 7,000 liters of water to produce 100 grams of beef.
—UN Commission on Sustainable Development, “Water—More Nutrition Per Drop,” 2004

https://www.economist.com/blogs/feastandfamine/2013/12/livestock

About a third of the world’s crops are fed to animals, and they use a third of all available fresh water. Something like 1.3 billion people depend in some way on raising animals; animals provide a third of the protein in peoples’ diets and the business accounts for a third of global agricultural GDP. But meat is an inefficient source of calories. It accounts for 17% of global calorific intake, but uses twice that amount of land, water and feed.

http://news.cornell.edu/stories/1997/08/us-could-feed-800-million-people-grain-livestock-eat


Most of that deals with grain-fed meat, but even livestock reared on pastures have an impact, land has to be cleared, water is being used and there's methane and large amounts of animal waste. Not to meantion burning fossil fuels for agricultural machinery.

OK, I know I'm being preachy. If I have annoyed anyone I do aplogise. I'm practically talking myself out of eating meat and making myself feel guilty.
But (engaging preach mode again), eating meat (or at least processed meat) will be viewed the same as smoking, drinking and other bad habits.
And I am the last who can preach, I eat industrial quantities of meat. My wife is a great cook. She made lamb for Christmas that was to die for. Her burgers are out of this world. Her Frikadellen with goat's cheese are unbelievable.
But I will talk to the Missus about cooking less meat, my waist and my wallet will thank me for it.

edit:

donegal. wrote: »

if you ever seen how our mass produced, cheap cloths (or most other consumer products) are made I'd imagine it affect you to an even greater extent .

Yes, also not great. Human beings don't just abuse animals, we abuse each other even more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfGMYdalClU

edit edit:
Yes, I know. I even annoy myself. Any hate is welcomed. Sorry again. I'll be good from now on. Promise.

Dakota Dan

Deleted User wrote: »

Jeez you must be very young if you call late 20's older!

Thinning hair is a Celtic curse boy - just look around you! Most men by the time they hit mid thirties are thinning and receding........Americans by comparison have fantastic hair. I don't think this is a vegan thing.

Also as another poster said you can be malnourished no what who you are! Nothing to do with being vegan or a meat eater.

Maybe you should look the meaning of older
The woman I was replying to was talking about her daughters who are younger than him.

Dakota Dan

Jawgap wrote: »

Meat requires huge quantities of water to rear, and we end up growing huge quantities of grain to feed to those animals to get them to put on the protein we enjoy.

I'm all for meat consumption, but I prefer mine to come from local, low intensity farms.

There's also the question of 'seasonality' - that's essentially gone from our food chain now. you can get strawbs year round, for example.

In case you haven't noticed we've an abundance of water in this country. Adult cattle will drink 5 gallons a day in warm weather hardly a huge quantity. You seem to be getting your information from American websites as the huge quantities of grain being fed doesn't apply here with grass fed beef.

El_Duderino 09

erica74 wrote:

I'm a meat eater, I love meat and I will continue to eat meat for the rest of my life. I don't really care who is vegetarian or vegan as long as they don't shove it down my throat and go on rants about it and I advance vegetarians and vegans that same courtesy.

why would you expect people to keep it to themselves? Do you expect anyone with any opinion to keep it to themselves (sport, politics etc.)?

I think it's similar to the breastfeeding argument. The facts are clear that breastfeeding is the better choice so if someone has decided not to breastfeed, they feel under attack when they hear about the benefits of breastfeeding. In the same way that it's difficult to know that an animal has to be bred in captivity and be killed for the meat we eat.

The animals are chattel slaves. It's very definition of speciesism. I'm speciesist because I'm part of the process by buying and eating meat.

dr.fuzzenstein wrote:

As for vegans trying to raise awareness that in order for you to have that lovely Sunday roast, something has to die, I am all for it. I am a meat eater, I love meat, going without would be horribly difficult for me. But I appreciate the fact animals have to be born into captivity to be killed and that this practice takes a heavy toll on the environment as well.

Exactly my feeling on the matter. If you're objective about it, as a meat eater, you'll come to exactly this point.

dr.fuzzenstein wrote:

Last Christmas (I gave you my heart) on a German Xmax market, there was a stall selling geese. If you wanted one, you had to watch as the goose was killed. I believe that if people had to watch their dinner being slaughtered, most of us would be vegan:

Family members started keeping chickens for the eggs and eventually the meat. End result out of 4 adults; one turned vegetarian, one doesn't eat chicken or eggs, and the other 2 continue to eat chicken and eggs but won't kill and eat any of their own birds. We (me and the 2 remaining meat eaters) did kill one bird once and they got as far as plucking the feathers and stopped. So it plucked it and when it came to cleaning out the insides, they couldn't take it and left the room.

I have to say it was an unpleasant business and it would wake you up to the reality of what goes into the process of creating the nicely packaged meat you see in the supermarket.

Dakota Dan

seamus wrote: »

You're the only person who seems to be "preaching" here?

I have literally never heard a vegan "preach" on the topic except when invited to.

I continually hear meat-eaters preaching and whining about how preachy and judgemental vegans are, even when nobody has asked them about it. Just like you're doing.

Like I say, it's a form of brainwashing, you're so deeply invested in the notion that meat is essential, that you cannot comprehend that someone would choose not to, and apparently see it as so grave an assault on your persona that you believe vegans are always "preaching" about it, even though they're not.

I have a number of vegans on my facebook feed. I have never once seen them "preach". On the other hand I continually see ads, videos and memes on my facebook feed extolling the greatness of bacon and making fun of vegans.

I know who's "preaching". And it's not vegans.

Anyway, here you go, here's Bord Bia telling people to eat meat:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86X0abGN3yU

And here's an anti-vegan ad produced by the NDC:
http://img2.thejournal.ie/inline/3696927/original/?width=630&version=3696927

A very preachy post. Vegans are like atheists they don't believe in God but can't stop talking about him. You do know that's advertising not forcing people to eat lamb.

Buford T. Justice XIX

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

A report from the International Water Management Institute, noting that 840 million of the world’s people remain undernourished, recommends finding ways to produce more food using less water. The report notes that it takes 550 liters of water to produce enough flour for one loaf of bread in developing countries…but up to 7,000 liters of water to produce 100 grams of beef.
—UN Commission on Sustainable Development, “Water—More Nutrition Per Drop,” 2004

Just to clear this water myth yet again. All food requires water to grow, even vegan food! The difficulty with using those sources you quote is the complete lack of differentiation between water sources. Rain is a fresh water source and there is no difficulty in using it for food production. The oft quoted water consumption figures allude to the unsustainable use of aquifer sourced water which isn't allowed replenish. Again, those are American sources and are in no way, shape or form pertinent to Irish use.

About a third of the world’s crops are fed to animals, and they use a third of all available fresh water. Something like 1.3 billion people depend in some way on raising animals; animals provide a third of the protein in peoples’ diets and the business accounts for a third of global agricultural GDP. But meat is an inefficient source of calories. It accounts for 17% of global calorific intake, but uses twice that amount of land, water and feed.

Again, the allusion that large quantities of grain crops are used solely for animal use. The truth, which is never highlighted for some reason that I can't understand (lol) is that those figures include byproducts of industrial grain crops for primary use in Agriculture. Grain crops like distillers grains and brewers grains which are byproducts of alcohol production. Then you have grain crops which do not meet product specifications for use in food eg high protein level in Milling wheat which mean it is diverted to animal use.
Even the much heralded soyabean used in animal feeds is a byproduct from oil extraction for human and industrial uses. Be careful what figures you use because there are some very dodgy figures being thrown out there as fact in black and white whereas in truth there is a whole gamut of greys there.

Most of that deals with grain-fed meat, but even livestock reared on pastures have an impact, land has to be cleared, water is being used and there's methane and large amounts of animal waste. Not to meantion burning fossil fuels for agricultural machinery.

Livestock is reared on pastures mainly because those pastures are unsuitable for use in growing other crops due to drainage, topography, rainfall, timing of rainfall, soil type, location etc etc etc. Less than 20% of land in Ireland would be considered arable land due to those reasons. The old saw of

'You can grow anything you want in Ireland, you just can't harvest it!'

is one of the most valuable saying that people should take from this post. So grassland is the default crop type in Ireland. Interestingly, grassland stores carbon from the atmosphere and increasingly so unlike tilled crops where decomposition of organic matter from the tilled soils provides much of the nutrients for those tilled crops, unlike pastures.

And fossil fuels have to be used for growing vegetable crops also so that argument is moot, tbh.

Jawgap

Dakota Dan wrote: »

In case you haven't noticed we've an abundance of water in this country. Adult cattle will drink 5 gallons a day in warm weather hardly a huge quantity. You seem to be getting your information from American websites as the huge quantities of grain being fed doesn't apply here with grass fed beef.

That is true, but let's not forget that the idea of a 'western diet' with it's high dairy, high meat content is a badge of "middle-classedness" in other countries - the dietary changes that took 2 generations in the US have taken place in China in less than a decade.

And yes, I know how lucky we are to enjoy grass fed beef pretty year round, but beef ain't the only meat, and we can feed a lot of people, but we can't feed everyone.

You look at the Chinese desire for pork, for example, and how it's driving the production of soya in the northern and southern hemisphere (and the clearance of rainforests) and it doesn't take long to realise that our food choices have environmental consequences.

For example, our grass fed beef is gorgeous but how much damage does silage effluent run-off, poor slurry spreading practices etc cause to our watercourses and aquifers?

But it's not totally the farmer's fault. The big problem is that people have no real connection with their food any more - and all that most want is food that is as cheap as possible without any regard to what it means for farming, agriculture practices and the impact on the landscape.

El_Duderino 09

Patww79 wrote:

This post has been deleted.

The 'environmental thing's is real. Everything we produce comes with an environmental cost. The relative cost is worth knowing about.

It costs energy to grow vegetables, think of the energy used to create the machinery, prepare the ground, fertilisers, perticides, harvesting refining and transportation and processing for human consumption.

Animals have additional needs because they use a lot of energy to move around and keep warm etc, and additional ended for water transport between locations, vets etc. So when you grow grain the could be prepared for humans and then give it to animals, it's easy to see how it takes much more energy to raise animals than vegetables.

So in the US, cattle are fed 7 grams of vegetable protein for each calorie of protein they eventually produce for consumption. Those 7grams of vegetable protein could have been fed to humans directly without the need for additional farming with all the environmental costs.

It varies by country because in Ireland grass is plentiful so cattle can eat more grass and less prepared food so it's not as wasteful as other countries. But globally there's no denying 'the environmental thing'.

El_Duderino 09

Buford T. Justice V wrote:

And fossil fuels have to be used for growing vegetable crops also so that argument is moot, tbh.

It's only moot if it's the same amount of fossil fuels used in production of both. Given that vegetables are grown indeed directly to humans, or can be grown to get given to animals which are then given to humans, I think it should be obvious that it's not the same.

And the amount of fossil fuels used to create veg Vs animals is very different so it's not moot at all. Unless you're suggesting that every calorie of veg given to an animal is then passed in directly to humans when they eat meat.

If that actually happened, then the argument would be moot, it doesn't so it isn't.

Growing veg to feed to animals to feed to humans is less efficient than growing veg to feed to humans directly. Simple as that.

Dakota Dan

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Maybe you should look the meaning of older
The woman I was replying to was talking about her daughters who are younger than him.

I am THAT woman and they're my daughters. I never said their ages. One mid twenties, one 31 - they are brimming over with health, great skin and great hair and very fit active sporty women. The maintain a natural weight, no fad diets, no detox, its a good way of life when you eat properly as a vegan.

seamus

Dakota Dan wrote: »

A very preachy post. Vegans are like atheists they don't believe in God but can't stop talking about him. You do know that's advertising not forcing people to eat lamb.

Ah I see, you're only interested in pretending to have a conversation. Welcome to my ignore list.