Vegans are so touchy

Jawgap

Deleted User wrote: »

I am THAT woman and they're my daughters. I never said their ages. One mid twenties, one 31 - they are brimming over with health, great skin and great hair and very fit active sporty women. The maintain a natural weight, no fad diets, no detox, its a good way of life when you eat properly as a vegan.

eh, there's no such thing as 'detox' - well there is, but we're all on 'detox' - at least those of us fortunate to have some level of liver and kidney function.

Next someone will be talking about 'superfoods' :rolleyes:

endacl

[quote="Hande hoche!;105853391, flexitarian[/quote]
Will only eat bendy food?

Hande hoche!

endacl wrote: »

Will only eat bendy food?

It's the most homoerotic of diets.

Jawgap

Jawgap wrote: »

eh, there's no such thing as 'detox' - well there is, but we're all on 'detox' - at least those of us fortunate to have some level of liver and kidney function.

Next someone will be talking about 'superfoods' :rolleyes:

agreed..... that's why I said it.


New Year is all about losing the weight, diets, detox........crazy stuff at the coldest time of the year when we need to put our bodies under less pressure. (I'm always amazed at Operation Transformation and people pounding the pavements night after night and dieting. A month before all we saw on TV was ads for food, drink, sweets, crisps, a massive Christmas binge that goes on for a month! As soon as its over its diet, exercise, Operation Transformation, running around at night in neon yellow and pink. The whole thing media driven!)

Moderation is key.

scdublin

The only time I hear veganism being brought up is when people are complaining about vegans tbh. I know one person off the top of my head who's vegan and she never tries to force her values onto other people, but gets asked constantly why she is a vegan and sometimes they get so agitated by her answer they become almost aggressive.

Sounds like the OP here brought it up to get a reaction/have a go.

El_Duderino 09

Deleted User wrote: »

I am somewhat agnostic on the effect that would have. I hunt and kill my own rabbit and fish for example. It has never bothered me. My 7 year old daughter works on that with me too. It has never bothered her either. We keep chickens and geese and a few other animals which sometimes we have had slaughtered. Again it has not bothered me or her. Nor has it when we have gone pheasant hunting in the UK with family and friends there.

Actually seeing slaughter would affect some people sure - but I am somewhat agnostic about how many - and rather suspicious of words even approaching "most". I have a feeling a lot less people would be affected than we think. Especially if they are acclimatised to it from a young age.

In my experience above, with a sample of 4 adults, who started keeping chickens and ducks for their eggs and meat, 1 became vegetarian one stopped eating chicken and eggs and has reduced meat consumption to near vegetarian. The other 2 still eat meat but wouldn’t kill or eat their own birds.

So it made them all at least question their meat eating habits.

You said it would depend on when they are introduced to the whole process and I think that’s exactly right. These were all adults who never had anything to do with agriculture until they got the birds.

In short, I think having to kill and prepare animals would cause most people who have only ever seen meat in shops, to think about it.

erica74

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

why would you expect people to keep it to themselves? Do you expect anyone with any opinion to keep it to themselves (sport, politics etc.)?

Did I say that? No.
I said I don't want it shoved down my throat. I thought it would be obvious what I meant by "shoved down my throat" but seeing as it needs to be explained - I mean I don't want aggressive and abusive arguments from vegans (or anyone for that matter), and I extend them that same courtesy. I am all for intelligent reasoned discussions on any topic.
I've lived on farms my whole life, I'm well aware of what processes are involved in the production of meat.

One thing that kind of grates with me is when meat eaters say stuff like "Vegans can avoid meat if they want, and I can eat meat if I want. They should live and let live" - but it isn't enough for vegans that they simply avoid meat themselves; their issue is that animals are killed for meat at all and so it obviously isn't okay from their perspective if you eat it.

I do however understand why many meat-eaters get annoyed by vegans - for most people meat does taste good and it *is* natural for human beings to eat and enjoy meat, in spite of what many vegans believe. So to be told they are bad people basically for doing something enjoyable which they might not have thought that deeply about before, and which they are deeply accustomed to since childhood, triggers a reflex reaction of "f off" or "i dont want to think about it" or "you're wrong". The world and the human condition are imperfect by nature though and the killing of animals for meat is an impefect feature of human societies, where most human bodies demand animal protein to sustain and satisfy themselves. Vegans and vegetarians have a lower tolerance for this imperfect nature of life and rail against it, much to their moral credit in my opinon since it is tougher than just eating meat.

People in the rich world could get by on a lot less meat though, which would be better for the environment, world food security, the animals themselves, peoples health etc.

El_Duderino 09

erica74 wrote: »

Did I say that? No.
I said I don't want it shoved down my throat. I thought it would be obvious what I meant by "shoved down my throat" but seeing as it needs to be explained - I mean I don't want aggressive and abusive arguments from vegans (or anyone for that matter), and I extend them that same courtesy. I am all for intelligent reasoned discussions on any topic.

So exactly the same as any other topic then?

_Dara_

Tilikum17 wrote: »

Yes, because older meat eaters all have lovely tans & a full head of hair.

As I said earlier in the thread, I went out with 15 couples in December. 90% of my mates are overweight & balding. All around the 40 mark.

They’re all meat eaters, yet they try to slag me for going vegan.

I’m slim & I have full head of hair.

Checkmate.

I doubt the reality was this black and white. I bet some of the meat-eaters present at that dinner looked good. I’m supportive of vegans and vegetarians but comments like yours do you no favours.

El_Duderino 09

_Dara_ wrote:

I doubt the reality is this black and white. I bet some of the meat-eaters present at that dinner looked good. I’m supportive of vegans and vegetarians but comments like yours do you no favours.

I'm pretty sure it was in response to this comment by Dakota Dan.

Dakota Dan wrote:

Any older vegans I know are gaunt and pale with thinning hair. One example would be the fella earthling Ed, he isn't a great advertisement for the diet he's pushing.

One outsized anecdote prompted the other. One is anti vegan, the other is pro vegan. Neither is anti meat eaters. Isn't it interesting that you would take exception to to the rebuttal to the anti vegan comment but not mention the anti vegan comment that prompted it.

That's how these conversations go in my experience. The pro meat side makes snide comments and the vegan responds. Meat eater can't understand why the vegan is 'preaching' to them. That's my experience.

_Dara_

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it was in response to this comment by Dakota Dan.




One outsized anecdote prompted the other. One is anti vegan, the other is pro vegan. Neither is anti meat eaters. Isn't it interesting that you would take exception to to the rebuttal to the anti vegan comment but not mention the anti vegan comment that prompted it.

That's how these conversations go in my experience. The pro meat side makes snide comments and the vegan responds. Meat eater can't understand why the vegan is 'preaching' to them. That's my experience.

That post has been my only criticism of vegans/vegetarians on the whole entire thread; please read the thread. It was prompted by Tillikum’s immodesty and also the fact that he introduced hard numbers. 15 men, all overweight and balding apart from him? Yeah right.

I’m a cancer patient and my only real criticism of those lifestyles is that I have discovered since diagnosis that some vegans and vegetarians genuinely think that how they eat acts as a forcefield against development of cancer. Some foods slightly elevate risk but absolutely anyone can be struck down. Being fit, being healthy, being vegan or vegetarian do not make you immune to the development of cancer and other serious illnesses. But sadly, I and others have been treated to smugness in this regard as if we haven’t got enough on our plates. Pun intended.

demanufactured

KwackerJack wrote: »

You don't eat meat, great that's your choice and none of my business and really I don't.care. But when I posted the below on bookface it was not received very well and instead of a mature debate all the Vegans just got angry and went on like a teenager been grounded.


My post :

"No 1 : If your vegan keep it to yourself and stop forcing your beleifs onto others, I don't force meat eating onto you

No 2 : Without meat you wouldn't even be on this planet, early man had a meat diet and without that diet they would not have survived and you would not be here to talk about it"

Vegan Person :

**** you : In a distant future all mankind will be vegan and ignorant people like you will be a smelly meat eating race that dwells in the sewers eating rats"

That is what was actually said to me on bookface after I highlighted that meat was one ( not all ) of the reason why early man developed into the species we are today!

Upon further research some Vegans have actually physically attacked people who do not agree with them and who ask them to accept mest eaters


We all know the world has a PC overdose but are we really being attaced both verbally and physically by Vegans because we eat meat??

Maybe the no meat diet is causing their anger??

****ing snowflakes.

Buford T. Justice XIX

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It's only moot if it's the same amount of fossil fuels used in production of both. Given that vegetables are grown indeed directly to humans, or can be grown to get given to animals which are then given to humans, I think it should be obvious that it's not the same.

And the amount of fossil fuels used to create veg Vs animals is very different so it's not moot at all. Unless you're suggesting that every calorie of veg given to an animal is then passed in directly to humans when they eat meat.

If that actually happened, then the argument would be moot, it doesn't so it isn't.

Growing veg to feed to animals to feed to humans is less efficient than growing veg to feed to humans directly. Simple as that.

But the only veg given to animals, bar forage crops for winter supplementation, is the 'ugly', blemished, or ill proportioned vegetables that do not meet the supermarket criteria for vegetables. Depending on the crop and time of year, this can be anywhere from 20% to over 50%. The vast majority of ruminants in the world are fed mainly grass diets, on land that is, for the most part, unsuitable for growing anything other than grass. Indeed, if you went about growing veg, for example, there, the harsh financial realities of food production would make themselves known to you fairly quickly. And animals require grain supplementation to meet stringent age, weight and fat level specifications, again mainly from byproducts of food and industrial production.

Going with your desire to contrast veg and animal fossil fuel comparisons, have you included the multiple passes of machinery needed for ploughing, rolling, harrowing, ridging, planting,multiple pre and post emergence sprays, multiple fertiliser passes, harvesting and disposal of crop remnants? All this is done under load also which will increase fuel usage. In contrast, grass requires 6-7 fertiliser passes (about 2x that of crops) and 50% of the area harvested for winter feed production of forages.

Both food types require transport off farms and onto further processing, veg for cleaning, grading, washing where appropriate, packing and transport to food outlets. Animals are transported to factories, slaughtered and moved, after hanging to mature, to their outlets.

Tbh, I have no idea of where you're going with feeding veg to ruminants. Energy levels needed for ruminant growth come predominately from forage sources grown and managed for those ruminants on land that isn't suitable for growing veg. There is little competition from animal producers for land suitable for vegetable production, they are predominately different land types needed.

Whispered

I cook meat for my husband, son and guests. I actively encourage my toddler to try as many foods including different meats as possible and I regularly cook game caught and prepared by my father. I grew up with hunting dogs and seeing game brought home whole and prepared. I've helped do it as a youngster. Fishing, lamping and fresh game all part of my childhood.

I genuinely believe that meat eaters who buy from small local butchers do more for animal welfare than I, as a vegetarian do because they're supporting a more ethical practice than mass farming, rather than not partaking at all.

All in, I firmly believe that my choice to not eat meat is mine alone and I have no right to push that on anybody. Including my own child.

Despite that I have been verbally attacked a few times by meat eaters. One incident that stands out is a friends 6ft something partner literally jumping out of his seat and standing over me, pointing and telling me that I'm "f***ing ridiculous" for asking the waiter what the vegetarian option is.

Yet I don't hold the opinion that all meat eaters are pricks. Prix are prix and will do and say pric-y things, regardless of diet.

Greyfox

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

In short, I think having to kill and prepare animals would cause most people who have only ever seen meat in shops, to think about it.

True, which is why I'll never look at anything that shows me where meat comes from. Meat is wonderful but I accept the world eats too much of it and it shouldn't be as cheap as it is. But people on both sides of the argument can be quite insulting about the subject

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

In short, I think having to kill and prepare animals would cause most people who have only ever seen meat in shops, to think about it.

Oh I agree it will make them _think_ about it. I never questioned that - or at least never intended to if it seemed I did. I am just somewhat agnostic that the number of people who actually change their habits will be as stark as your experience suggests.

But I freely admit that is just my impression against your own. Anecdote V Anecdote. I would welcome a large scale study. But how to get people en masse who have only seen meat in neat little cellophane packages in the Local Tesco - to erode their own ignorance - is above my pay grade

El_Duderino 09

Buford T. Justice V wrote:

But the only veg given to animals, bar forage crops for winter supplementation, is the 'ugly', blemished, or ill proportioned vegetables that do not meet the supermarket criteria for vegetables. Depending on the crop and time of year, this can be anywhere from 20% to over 50%. The vast majority of ruminants in the world are fed mainly grass diets, on land that is, for the most part, unsuitable for growing anything other than grass. Indeed, if you went about growing veg, for example, there, the harsh financial realities of food production would make themselves known to you fairly quickly. And animals require grain supplementation to meet stringent age, weight and fat level specifications, again mainly from byproducts of food and industrial production.

Where does grain come into the equation? And the crops grown specifically for feeding animals? Ruminants need a lot of land to rotate and allow the grass to regrow. The overall land area needed to feed the world with veg is much lower than land needed to grow meat. Even though meat is more calorie dense than veg, it still takes more energy to produce meat than equal calories of veq.

Now, it's more complicated than that because, as you said, all land isn't equally useful for producing different types of crops.

Buford T. Justice V wrote:

Going with your desire to contrast veg and animal fossil fuel comparisons, have you included the multiple passes of machinery needed for ploughing, rolling, harrowing, ridging, planting,multiple pre and post emergence sprays, multiple fertiliser passes, harvesting and disposal of crop remnants? All this is done under load also which will increase fuel usage. In contrast, grass requires 6-7 fertiliser passes (about 2x that of crops) and 50% of the area harvested for winter feed production of forages.

Buford T. Justice V wrote:

Both food types require transport off farms and onto further processing, veg for cleaning, grading, washing where appropriate, packing and transport to food outlets. Animals are transported to factories, slaughtered and moved, after hanging to mature, to their outlets.

Tbh, I have no idea of where you're going with feeding veg to ruminants. Energy levels needed for ruminant growth come predominately from forage sources grown and managed for those ruminants on land that isn't suitable for growing veg. There is little competition from animal producers for land suitable for vegetable production, they are predominately different land types needed.

Globally it requires way more energy to energy to produce meat than veg. Ireland has some advantages which means meat can be produced less energy intensively but I think you'll agree they Ireland is a small part of the puzzle and 'the environment' is a global issue, not simply an Irish one.

The fact is that it's much more complicated than saying they both use fossil fuels so the point is moot.

Dakota Dan

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh I agree it will make them _think_ about it. I never questioned that - or at least never intended to if it seemed I did. I am just somewhat agnostic that the number of people who actually change their habits will be as stark as your experience suggests.

But I freely admit that is just my impression against your own. Anecdote V Anecdote. I would welcome a large scale study. But how to get people en masse who have only seen meat in neat little cellophane packages in the Local Tesco - to erode their own ignorance - is above my pay grade

I've seen animals going through meat factories, it never put me off. How stupid do you think people are?

Do not recall calling anyone else stupid. You will have to quote where I suggested any such thing.

donegaLroad

I have a cousin who is a doctor in the US, and she and her son have both gone vegan, and the reason she says is to reduce the risk of developing cancer.

Whispered

Deleted User wrote: »

But how to get people en masse who have only seen meat in neat little cellophane packages in the Local Tesco - to erode their own ignorance - is above my pay grade

I agree. As I said I feed my child meat and encourage him to eat it. My compromise it that he knows what meat is, we don't lie to him. He knows pork is pig "Mammy that pig is deeeeeeelicious" chickens live out the back, give eggs and sometimes we eat them, fish is caught and BBQ'd with grandad etc. He knows I don't eat meat because I don't like it. He can make his own decision when he's old enough but I would like it to be an informed one. That's about as preachy as I get when it comes to it. Informed decisions.

Mooooo

Follow Chris Pratt on Instagram, He's after sticking up picks of the lamb he is having from his farm, plenty comments for people to get upset over under it

_Dara_

donegaLroad wrote: »

I have a cousin who is a doctor in the US, and she and her son have both gone vegan, and the reason she says is to reduce the risk of developing cancer.

Well, at least she’s just going for risk reduction and is under no illusuons that a vegan diet will completely protect her from cancer.

Whispered

Oh anyone remember the whole Rachel Allen thing when she was pictured with shot pheasants and there was uproar. I found that ironic, I'd imagine there were a fair few people sitting down to their battery raised chicken dinner while tutting over that.

Jawgap

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh I agree it will make them _think_ about it. I never questioned that - or at least never intended to if it seemed I did. I am just somewhat agnostic that the number of people who actually change their habits will be as stark as your experience suggests.

But I freely admit that is just my impression against your own. Anecdote V Anecdote. I would welcome a large scale study. But how to get people en masse who have only seen meat in neat little cellophane packages in the Local Tesco - to erode their own ignorance - is above my pay grade

I think if you gave someone a captive bolt stunner, a set of sharp knives and a pithing rod along with detailed instructions on how to stun, kill, hoist and dress a carcase they'd be vegan by the time you pointed out the spot on the skull where they needed to point the stunner.

Have to admit, after my first stint working in a slaughterhouse I went off meat for about 8 weeks......now I'll happily eat it, but I'm just a bit picky where I buy it from.

donegaLroad

_Dara_ wrote: »

Well, at least she’s just going for risk reduction and is under no illusuons that a vegan diet will completely protect her from cancer.

There is supposed to be a greater risk of contracting some disease from red meat produced in the US because the law allows producers to amonia wash the meat.

_Dara_

donegaLroad wrote: »

There is supposed to be a greater risk of contracting some disease from red meat produced in the US because the law allows producers to amonia wash the meat.

Note ‘greater risk’ does not mean no risk for those who abstain. Terming the risk as greater acknowledges that risk exists independent of that.

Jawgap

Jawgap wrote: »

I think if you gave someone a captive bolt stunner

But we are now moving from seeing it to doing it yourself. Which is again a different thing. But again I think it depends when you get them and how long you are doing it.

Many people who are living in big cities and have never seen meat as anything but clean cuts sitting in cellophane in the supermarket would likely be affected by that sure. Children would adapt to it quicker. My own 7 year old for example helps me hunt and kill rabbit for food.

And like you I wonder how long the effect would last. You said it put you off for about 8 weeks. But you got over it. I wonder how many people would too. And if it went on like that within a generation or two it would be more normalised.

As I keep saying though - it is all just out loud wondering. None of us actually know.

Jawgap

Deleted User wrote: »

But we are now moving from seeing it to doing it yourself. Which is again a different thing. But again I think it depends when you get them and how long you are doing it.

Many people who are living in big cities and have never seen meat as anything but clean cuts sitting in cellophane in the supermarket would likely be affected by that sure. Children would adapt to it quicker. My own 7 year old for example helps me hunt and kill rabbit for food.

And like you I wonder how long the effect would last. You said it put you off for about 8 weeks. But you got over it. I wonder how many people would too. And if it went on like that within a generation or two it would be more normalised.

As I keep saying though - it is all just out loud wondering. None of us actually know.

I never talked about seeing it - I suggested if people had to kill it, it might reduce their habits....

Jawgap wrote: »

I like my meat - and I'm in no mind to change, but I always wonder how many of us would retain our carnivorous habits if we could only eat what we killed and dressed ourselves?

FWIW, I'd be fine - I do a small bit of hunting (I only shoot for the pot) so I can (somewhat badly) gut, skin and prepare a carcase

....and yes it put me off for a few weeks but the effect lingers - as I said, I'm now quite picky about my meat and I want to know it's provenance. My preference is for locally reared stuff that a local butcher has prepared, so I can have some assurance about welfare standards.

Also, wouldn't eat anything slaughtered using Hal-al or Kosher slaughtering methods. Not out of any religious conviction or lack thereof, only because of welfare concerns I have. Before anyone posts, I'm aware of the studies that indicate welfare at slaughter using these methods is largely comparable, my own opinion differs.

Yup - my fail. I was mixing this thread up with a very similar one I was in on an entirely different forum - where people were talking about going to slaughterhouses just to _see_ what is done there.

But the rest of my post thankfully still stands. I think the effect would be temporary and people would go back to eating meat again quite quickly. The original point from dr.fuzzenstein seemed to suggest the experience would simply turn people vegetarian or vegan. I simply have my doubts it would have any such long term effect.

But I - like you - find that hunting and killing my own rabbit and so forth does indeed make me more aware of how I source the meat I buy. So that can only be a good thing. I would even say the same thing about vegetables. Until one actually gets around to producing ones own food - and simply picks it neat and clean and packaged off shelves - it is easy to remain ignorant of the work and effort and reality and conditions in which much of it is produced.

So I try from the outset to let my kids see as much of the full process as possible. Which of course triggers some small number of people who think there is few horrors in the world greater than a 7 year old seeing meat being killed and prepared. Though I was watching a live streamed dissection of a North American Beaver recently - which was also happily done with a group of 10ish year olds at the table.

Dakota Dan

Deleted User wrote: »

Do not recall calling anyone else stupid. You will have to quote where I suggested any such thing.

I never said you did but saying that they don't know the process of meat production implies that they are.

Dakota Dan

Dakota Dan wrote: »

I never said you did but saying that they don't know the process of meat production implies that they are.

Only to you. I however see a huge difference between stupidity are ignorance. Not being informed on a particular subject - does not imply stupidity.

So - I simply did not imply it.

Dakota Dan

Deleted User wrote: »

But we are now moving from seeing it to doing it yourself. Which is again a different thing. But again I think it depends when you get them and how long you are doing it.

Many people who are living in big cities and have never seen meat as anything but clean cuts sitting in cellophane in the supermarket would likely be affected by that sure. Children would adapt to it quicker. My own 7 year old for example helps me hunt and kill rabbit for food.

And like you I wonder how long the effect would last. You said it put you off for about 8 weeks. But you got over it. I wonder how many people would too. And if it went on like that within a generation or two it would be more normalised.

As I keep saying though - it is all just out loud wondering. None of us actually know.

Until they get hungry, see how fast they'd adapt then.

No idea what you mean here. Vegetarians and Vegans eat food too you know. There is a lot more than mere hunger going on in each individuals food choices.

Jawgap

Deleted User wrote: »

Yup - my fail. I was mixing this thread up with a very similar one I was in on an entirely different forum - where people were talking about going to slaughterhouses just to _see_ what is done there.

But the rest of my post thankfully still stands. I think the effect would be temporary and people would go back to eating meat again quite quickly. The original point from dr.fuzzenstein seemed to suggest the experience would simply turn people vegetarian or vegan. I simply have my doubts it would have any such long term effect.

But I - like you - find that hunting and killing my own rabbit and so forth does indeed make me more aware of how I source the meat I buy. So that can only be a good thing. I would even say the same thing about vegetables. Until one actually gets around to producing ones own food - and simply picks it neat and clean and packaged off shelves - it is easy to remain ignorant of the work and effort and reality and conditions in which much of it is produced.

So I try from the outset to let my kids see as much of the full process as possible. Which of course triggers some small number of people who think there is few horrors in the world greater than a 7 year old seeing meat being killed and prepared. Though I was watching a live streamed dissection of a North American Beaver recently - which was also happily done with a group of 10ish year olds at the table.

Maybe it's my imagination but I find that when I do kill, prepare and cook something myself along with veggies and fruit from the garden it tastes far superior to anything bought in any shop or restaurant!!!

I'd say my favourite meal each year is the bit of pheasant I have after I've shot and hung it - served with a pear sauce (pears from the garden), various root veggies and a plate of spuds - washed down with a few bottles of home-made cider and a tot of homemade apple schnapps as a digestif!

Takes a while to prepare - but it's incredibly satisfying

Mooooo

In terms of the op, have never had anyone tell me what I should and should not eat don't think I have met a vegan tbh. Aunt was vegetarian but seeing as she spent most of the last 35 years in Africa that was the main reason . Would see plenty of comments online on different platforms but shir everyone jumps up and down behind a keyboard.
People can do what they like I don't mind but there are two main issues with veganism in general I have, the first is a the claim that the diet can work from birth, now if breastfeeding it may well do but if for whatever reason mother can't do that there is no alternative for baby other than dairy baby formula.
The second is the language used in the media by vegans mainly YouTube type stuff to describe farming, it is totally bs. Half the terms used I would never have heard bar in a vegan video and many other descriptions show at best a basic ignorance of biology and at worst lies told to influence anyone impressionable. Now I know much of it is by those o the extreme end of the scale so if I ever do meet one and conversation comes up I am not going to assume that person to be the same I like to think I'd take people at face value

Jawgap

Jawgap wrote: »

Maybe it's my imagination but I find that when I do kill, prepare and cook something myself along with veggies and fruit from the garden it tastes far superior to anything bought in any shop or restaurant!!!

No I do not think it is just you. I find the same. I also had a nice experience recently where I cooked for some people - one of whom explained "Oh yea - now I remember what carrots taste like!!!!". Implying that he has found shop bought carrots to have lost all flavour over time.

But effort goes a long way to flavour too I find. Whether the effort of cultivating and then preparing ones own food or even if I walk into a local restaurant and order a steak - enjoy it a lot. If however I walk for a long hard day through the wicklow mountains and then go into a restaurant in somewhere like Roundwood - I enjoy the steak Immensely.

Amazing how many things can influence our subjective enjoyment of food. Setting - presentation - effort - company - acoustics - you name it.

Mooooo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No I do not think it is just you. I find the same. I also had a nice experience recently where I cooked for some people - one of whom explained "Oh yea - now I remember what carrots taste like!!!!". Implying that he has found shop bought carrots to have lost all flavour over time.

But effort goes a long way to flavour too I find. Whether the effort of cultivating and then preparing ones own food or even if I walk into a local restaurant and order a steak - enjoy it a lot. If however I walk for a long hard day through the wicklow mountains and then go into a restaurant in somewhere like Roundwood - I enjoy the steak Immensely.

Amazing how many things can influence our subjective enjoyment of food. Setting - presentation - effort - company - acoustics - you name it.

Shir the difference in eggs is massive from shop bought to ones from hens pottering around at home

Mooooo

Mooooo wrote: »

Shir the difference in eggs is massive from shop bought to ones from hens pottering around at home

Of for sure. I have geese too. I love their eggs. Much larger and subtle different flavour.

Make my own bread too - and pasta when time allows - and both tend to be judged as superior by anyone I feed it to.

OldNotWIse

Non-vegans who try to stir up vegans are far more plentiful than vegans who try to impose their views on others (on Boards and in real life). From experience, the conversation generally goes:

Non-vegan: where do you get your protein/ why are you vegan/ what about plants who have feelings etc.
Vegan: Begins to explain their position
Non-vegan: stop shoving your beliefs on me you self-righteous pr*t!!!
Vegan: er...I wasn't, you just asked me to explain how...
Non-vegan: but bacon!!!

Shenshen

I would recommend going over to the Vegetarian/Vegan forum and count how many threads have been opened there discussing people eating meat, and then compare that to the number of threads opened in AH about vegetarians/vegans.

Just to get an idea how much most vegans and vegetarians really care about what other people eat.

El_Duderino 09

Dakota Dan wrote:

I've seen animals going through meat factories, it never put me off. How stupid do you think people are?

Lol. This is a mad idea, but just imagine that everyone isn't like you.

I'm telling you that simply being around chickens as they grew from egg to adult was enough to put 2 out of the 4 adults in the house off chicken and eggs, one of those turned vegetarian and the other 2 wouldn't eat their own birds.

I don't honk it takes stupidity but I do think people are woefully uninformed about how the nicely packaged meat parcels, get to the supermarket.

I'm certain most people don't think about the process of meat production and if they had to think about it, they would come at it from a different perspective. I don't think that perspective would led to greater meat sales though.

OldNotWIse

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Lol. This is a mad idea, but just imagine that everyone isn't like you.

I'm telling you that simply being around chickens as they grew from egg to adult was enough to put 2 out of the 4 adults in the house off chicken and eggs, one of those turned vegetarian and the other 2 wouldn't eat their own birds.

I don't honk it takes stupidity but I do think people are woefully uninformed about how the nicely packaged meat parcels, get to the supermarket.

I'm certain most people don't think about the process of meat production and if they had to think about it, they would come at it from a different perspective. I don't think that perspective would led to greater meat sales though.

I'd argue this is probably better described as "willful blindness"