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BT Young Scientist - is there something fishy? MOD Note in OP

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    #272
    cookie1977
    Registered Users Posts: 6,794 ✭✭✭cookie1977


    kaymin wrote: »
    We just just take your word for it then.

    Sort of like believing whatever the judges tell the IT right?


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    #273
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    _Dara_ wrote: »
    The hoary old 'begrudgery' accusation. Again.

    Me personally, I'm usually very happy for the winners and interested in their projects. Why would I randomly begrudge this lad?

    Good question - why would you?

    I just don’t understand it.


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    #274
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    Do you honestly think he was the student involved who took advantage of great resources available to him?

    And what exactly is wrong with a mother being proud of her son, even if she did ***ist him in some way?

    "great resources available to him"...
    just let that sit there.

    Hopefully all the other kids and their parents and their teachers, who are equally as proud of their progeny and pupils will see the legitimacy of your argument, and realise, "d'ja know what, Audrey is right. Who are we to feel a little aggrieved; sure its not his fault his Mom is a lecturer in the field, with public funded facilities and resources to ***ist her son, sure arent we all proud of our kids. Its not his fault she supervised a similar project in 2007, or the judge was his moms buddy in Cork academic circles. Lets wish him well with his 7K, and probable fast track into a scholarship. We'll go back to our bust a55 lab with pi55 coloured cracked gla55ware, pull ourselves together, and try again next year."


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    #275
    Charmeleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭Charmeleon


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    Good question - why would you?

    I just don’t understand it.

    Because it was presented to the media and all the other participants that it was original research in his garden, inspired by his grandad who tinkered with plants, when in fact his mother is a microbiologist with special interest in this same area and who also seems to have supervised almost identical work by third level students ten years ago.


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    #276
    cookie1977
    Registered Users Posts: 6,794 ✭✭✭cookie1977


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    "great resources available to him"...
    just let that sit there.

    Hopefully all the other kids and their parents and their teachers, who are equally as proud of their progeny and pupils will see the legitimacy of your argument, and realise, "d'ja know what, Audrey is right. Who are we to feel a little aggrieved; sure its not his fault his Mom is a lecturer in the field, with public funded facilities and resources to ***ist her son, sure arent we all proud of our kids. Its not his fault she supervised a similar project in 2007, or the judge was his moms buddy in Cork academic circles. Lets wish him well with his 7K, and probable fast track into a scholarship. We'll go back to our bust *** lab with *** coloured cracked gl***ware, pull ourselves together, and try again next year."



    You forgot they need to be MORE ambitious too!


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    #277
    kaymin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,529 ✭✭✭kaymin


    cookie1977 wrote: »
    Sort of like believing whatever the judges tell the IT right?

    Well yeah, like, the people who actually interviewed the young lad and know something about what they're talking about.


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    #278
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    i think most of us are just put out by the unfairness of the thing.
    And when you read a judge is a crony of the mother, it just gets worse.
    we're supposed to encourage STEM among our kids. this will have the opposite effect.
    its not begrudgery or online "trolls" having a go.

    Do you honestly think he was the student involved who took advantage of great resources available to him?

    And what exactly is wrong with a mother being proud of her son, even if she did assist him in some way?


    There is a difference between your teacher helping you study for your leaving cert and your teacher sitting beside you in the exam while you copy their notes.


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    #279
    kaymin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,529 ✭✭✭kaymin


    Charmeleon wrote: »
    Because it was presented to the media and all the other participants that it was original research in his garden, inspired by his grandad who tinkered with plants, when in fact his mother is a microbiologist with special interest in this same area and who also seems to have supervised almost identical work by third level students ten years ago.

    Prove it was almost identical work. And before you do, realise that advancement in science typically occurs in tiny steps.


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    #280
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    cookie1977 wrote: »
    You forgot they need to be MORE ambitious too!

    so lets recap.

    THINGS I NEED TO WIN YOUNG SCIENTIST:
    1. A grandad to inspire me.
    2. MOAR Ambition.

    THINGS I DONT NEED:
    1. A mother working in the academic field in a local unversity
    2. Access to her publicly funded facilities in this university
    3. Access to her previous student very similar work
    4. A judge the buddy of my mom


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    #281
    cookie1977
    Registered Users Posts: 6,794 ✭✭✭cookie1977


    kaymin wrote: »
    Well yeah, like, the people who actually interviewed the young lad and know something about what they're talking about.

    My mind is officially blown.


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    #282
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Charmeleon wrote: »
    Because it was presented to the media and all the other participants that it was original research in his garden, inspired by his grandad who tinkered with plants, when in fact his mother is a microbiologist with special interest in this same area and who also seems to have supervised almost identical work by third level students ten years ago.

    Maybe there were elements of both involved?

    I still don’t see where the dishonesty/fraud comes into or why he’s undeserving.


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    #283
    Martina1991
    Registered Users Posts: 2,545 ✭✭✭Martina1991


    AudreyHepburn wrote:
    I'm a little bit taken aback to the malice and begrudgery being leveled at a 15 year old just because he chose to use resources available to him that others may not have had access to.

    I don't begrudge the lad the win.

    This whole thread has highlighted the uneven playing field for any student who enters the YSY.

    There were thousands of kids that started with an idea and an interest in science.

    If you're lucky enough to have connections or live near a 3rd level institute you're at a huge advantage.

    If everyone had that advantage, everyone would take it.


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    #284
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    There is a difference between your teacher helping you study for your leaving cert and your teacher sitting beside you in the exam while you copy their notes.

    What makes you think he plagiarized his Mothers work? Is there any evidence?


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    #285
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    kaymin wrote: »
    Charmeleon wrote: »
    Because it was presented to the media and all the other participants that it was original research in his garden, inspired by his grandad who tinkered with plants, when in fact his mother is a microbiologist with special interest in this same area and who also seems to have supervised almost identical work by third level students ten years ago.

    Prove it was almost identical work. And before you do, realise that advancement in science typically occurs in tiny steps.

    Look back over the last few pages plenty of links to researchgate etc showing her work


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    #286
    kaymin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,529 ✭✭✭kaymin


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    Look back over the last few pages plenty of links to researchgate etc showing her work

    Which proves what exactly? It's you and others that are claiming its virtually identical - give some specific examples of this.


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    #287
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    kaymin wrote: »
    judeboy101 wrote: »
    Look back over the last few pages plenty of links to researchgate etc showing her work

    Which proves what exactly? It's you and others that are claiming its virtually identical - give some specific examples of this.
    Gave them couple pages back, if you can't be bothered to check them then I can't really help you any more. If your so sure it is kosher then prove it scientifically by trying to prove it isn't, and failing.


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    #288
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    kaymin wrote: »
    judeboy101 wrote: »
    Look back over the last few pages plenty of links to researchgate etc showing her work

    Which proves what exactly? It's you and others that are claiming its virtually identical - give some specific examples of this.
    Gave them couple pages back, if you can't be bothered to check them then I can't really help you any more. If you are so sure it is kosher then prove it scientifically by trying to prove it isn't, and failing.


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    #289
    cookie1977
    Registered Users Posts: 6,794 ✭✭✭cookie1977


    kaymin wrote: »
    Which proves what exactly? It's you and others that are claiming its virtually identical - give some specific examples of this.

    Number of times virtually has been mentioned in this thread?
    0
    Number of times identical has been mentioned in this thread?
    3

    twice by Kaymin.

    Facts, we want facts!


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    #290
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    BowSideChamp wrote: »
    How did this teenager do a project working with MRSA? Surely this was a h&s risk which should have been conducted in a specialised lab with qualified scientists.

    Dunno! Maybe he knew someone.

    Keep up goddammit


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    #291
    kaymin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,529 ✭✭✭kaymin


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=YNAwZIAAAAAJ&hl=en

    Mammy did same experiment except substitute rubus for salix

    So he found a new treatment for MRSA. A different treatment to what his mother had previously discovered.


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    #292
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    boombang wrote: »
    Call me cynical, but I've often thought there's no way these kids are coming up with this stuff themselves without constable considerable adult direction that goes beyond meer support and mentoring.

    Cynical.


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    #293
    cookie1977
    Registered Users Posts: 6,794 ✭✭✭cookie1977


    kaymin wrote: »
    So he found a new treatment for MRSA. A different treatment to what his mother had previously discovered.

    Yes like this one published in 2012:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3252291/pdf/pone.0028737.pdf


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    #294
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    Do you honestly think he was the student involved who took advantage of great resources available to him?

    And what exactly is wrong with a mother being proud of her son, even if she did assist him in some way?

    On one hand she had nothing to do with it... as the accolades went to the grandad.
    But on the other hand... it is her EXACT field of expertise... but this was never publicly mentioned. But then again the competition was over by then.
    He won fair and square going by the judges criteria.
    The criteria stink.


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    #295
    Charmeleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭Charmeleon


    kaymin wrote: »
    Prove it was almost identical work. And before you do, realise that advancement in science typically occurs in tiny steps.

    ‘tiny steps’ might just make something worthy of being published, but winning a prize over hundreds of other hopeful young scientists should be down to outstanding, creative innovation and original thought brought to bear on understudied or implacable problems.


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    #296
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    On one hand she had nothing to do with it... as the accolades went to the grandad.
    But on the other hand... it is her EXACT field of expertise... but this was never publicly mentioned. But then again the competition was over by then.
    He won fair and square going by the judges criteria.
    The criteria stink.

    I’ll agree that criteria may need an overhaul but that is in no way shape or form his fault and we should not begrudge him the award he won fair and square.


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    #297
    kaymin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,529 ✭✭✭kaymin


    cookie1977 wrote: »
    Yes like this one published in 2012:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3252291/pdf/pone.0028737.pdf

    Cookie - you're going around in circles - he didn't use rubus to treat MRSA. He had a different solution.


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    #298
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Anyhow.. I've been standing outside Jamseses hospital trying to flog some brambles to doctory Lookin types as they walk in.... no joy.
    Junkies are curious though!


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    #299
    cookie1977
    Registered Users Posts: 6,794 ✭✭✭cookie1977


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    Anyhow.. I've been standing outside Jamseses hospital trying to flog some brambles to doctory Lookin types as they walk in.... no joy.
    Junkies are curious though!

    No ambition that's your problem. What is this country coming to??


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    #300
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    I didn't realise that there was a sizeable cash prize for the winner.


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    #301
    Kurtosis
    Registered Users Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Kurtosis


    kaymin wrote: »
    Cookie - you're going around in circles - he didn't use rubus to treat MRSA. He had a different solution.

    Is it known what species of plant he used? Rubus is the genus or latin name of blackberry plans.


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