BT Young Scientist - is there something fishy? MOD Note in OP

diomed

"I felt almost like a puppet. The hands and feet were moving but you almost feel like it's not you,” he said.

suicide_circus

If that's not a cry for help I don't know what is!

judeboy101

sullivlo wrote: »

As somebody who has:
- won the young scientist myself
- supervised/mentored a project that won two significant prizes
- worked at the young scientist
- provided assistance with reagents/equipment to projects over the years
- judged at science competitions

... I have some strong opinions on this topic, and am in a good position to comment.

Is it suspicious? Absolutely.

Is there a chance that parents/teachers had a say in the project? Yes.

Are there students out there that are just amazing and use their own initiative and contacts to get help? 100%.

When my students won, I was gobsmacked at the list of people that they had contacted for help. Not for the people to do the experiment, but for help with a technique or a technical aspect of the project. In the same way that when I was in academia I would help students who contacted me.

At the event, students are subjected to judging by experts in a field, and they are grilled to ensure that they did the work themselves, and it is quickly very obvious as to what they actually did and what anybody else did.

I spoke this years winner during the week. I did a postdoc position on a similar project so I had a genuine interest in it, and a good knowledge of the techniques he used. The kid is great, and he 100% did the work himself. Did his family help? Absolutely. His family inspired him through discussion, and would have aided him in his choice of interest by discussing their own work at home over the years.

There were several other incredible projects on display this year. Projects that, on paper, were better than the winning projects. But within two minutes it was obvious to anyone with any significant science background that somebody else did the work.

Sometimes people just have a passion for it, and they know what to do and they do it. When I won, it was in a field unfamiliar to my teacher, so it was my own/my groups work. When my students won, I felt like a fraud when people congratulated me, because my function was to sign the forms and proof read their work as I hadn’t a clue what they were up to. When students would cold-call me and ask if they could use something in the lab, the answer was always yes, and I would help them in any way that I could.

In conclusion/TL/DR: it is suspicious, but from experience sometimes kids are just *that* good at science.

Have to disagree on a number of points .

1. They are not all judged by experts in the field. They are judged by experts in the category, so quite often a you'll get a judge who knows very little about your specific topic.


2. Judges give their marks immediately after their judging on a special sheet. This is then given to the committee. They are forbidden to alter marks after that. They don't go googling it after as they are told they mark what they see and here.

Your Face

If the OPs suspicions were deemed correct, Id be very underwhelmed.

judeboy101

diomed wrote: »

Year School
1995 Abbey Grammar School, Newry
1993 Abbey Grammar School, Newry, Co. Down

1977 Colaiste Mhuire, Dublin
1972 Coláiste Mhuire, Baile Atha Cliath

2013 Kinsale Community School, Cork
2006 Kinsale Community School, County Cork
2009 Kinsale Community School, County Cork

1999 Scoil Mhuire Gan Smál, Blarney
2010 Scoil Mhuire Gan Smál, Blarney, County Cork

1975 St Finian’s College, Mullingar, Co. Westmeath
2003 St Finnian's College, Mullingar, County Westmeath

2004 Synge Street CBS, Dublin
2007 Synge Street CBS, Dublin
2012 Synge Street CBS, Dublin


43 years of the contest, 14 won by multiple school winners.
723 secondary schools in Ireland.

Some use an American model of pairing with universities etc. Kinsale and synge street are notorious at young scientist for this.

Bobeagleburger

_Dara_ wrote: »

There’s a Cork Echo article in the google results that mentions his parents in the google-visible bit (mother is called Brigid apparently) but click on it and it appears to have been removed.

Very back to the future esqe. Martys family disappearing from the photograph while he's playing in the band.

The Rape of Lucretia

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Well done Dad! Was how one of my homework offerings was marked when I was a bout 6/7 years old.

Still,better than a note on one of my effort at science when I was about 10 - "Even you can do better than this".
Teacher was clearly not of the build-their-confidence persuasion.

ThisRegard

The Collison brothers are certainly living the life, still making millions upon millions on the back of their parents Young Scientists work if theories here are applied.

beertons

This has been going on for years, kids showing their parents work.

sullivlo

judeboy101 wrote: »

Have to disagree on a number of points .

1. They are not all judged by experts in the field. They are judged by experts in the category, so quite often a you'll get a judge who knows very little about your specific topic.


2. Judges give their marks immediately after their judging on a special sheet. This is then given to the committee. They are forbidden to alter marks after that. They don't go googling it after as they are told they mark what they see and here.

The judges discuss their findings in the group and discuss who is in contention, then more judges go.

And I wouldn’t consider myself an expert in biology but I could understand the projects and ask questions. It’s not a PhD viva like.

TheAnalyst_

My engineering teacher said to us 20 years ago, "if the teachers and parents want to have a competition to see who has the best projects then they should just leave the kids out of it".

sullivlo

Sam Quentin wrote: »

My grandfather was a great carpenter, my dad was a great carpenter.. And now apparently I'm a great carpenter!?
Just saying....

There’s a difference between practical work and theory/discussion. If you’re in an environment where science is discussed over dinner, you’Re more likely to have an interest. And if your grandfather showed you how to use a jigsaw to make a table when you were 5 and it continued over the years, I reckon you would have an advantage over your peers in woodwork at school.

Tom Mann Centuria

I think the OP has an excellent point, and now I get to use one of my favourite words.

She is clearly continuing HER work, or specific field of interest vicariously* through her son.



*what a word.

TheAnalyst_

The only believable winners are the IT/code related projects.

Atoms for Peace

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

The only believable winners are the IT/code related projects.

But they are boring.

barneystinson

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

I think the OP has an excellent point, and now I get to use one of my favourite words.

She is clearly continuing HER work, or specific field of interest vicariously* through her son.



*what a word.

Well it wouldn't be a proper conspiracy without the clergy in on it...

Dr.MickKiller

Well, well, what a pretty picture Father Crilly has painted! How dare you bring shame on this celebration of sheep!

Sleeper12

I would have thought it more believable with his mother in the same field. Tbh

My dad was a plumber and just from being around him as a child I had a good knowledge of plumbing long before I got into it myself

evolving_doors

sullivlo wrote: »

As somebody who has:
- won the young scientist myself
- supervised/mentored a project that won two significant prizes
- worked at the young scientist
- provided assistance with reagents/equipment to projects over the years
- judged at science competitions

... I have some strong opinions on this topic, and am in a good position to comment.

Is it suspicious? Absolutely.

Is there a chance that parents/teachers had a say in the project? Yes.

Are there students out there that are just amazing and use their own initiative and contacts to get help? 100%.

When my students won, I was gobsmacked at the list of people that they had contacted for help. Not for the people to do the experiment, but for help with a technique or a technical aspect of the project. In the same way that when I was in academia I would help students who contacted me.

At the event, students are subjected to judging by experts in a field, and they are grilled to ensure that they did the work themselves, and it is quickly very obvious as to what they actually did and what anybody else did.

I spoke this years winner during the week. I did a postdoc position on a similar project so I had a genuine interest in it, and a good knowledge of the techniques he used. The kid is great, and he 100% did the work himself. Did his family help? Absolutely. His family inspired him through discussion, and would have aided him in his choice of interest by discussing their own work at home over the years.

There were several other incredible projects on display this year. Projects that, on paper, were better than the winning projects. But within two minutes it was obvious to anyone with any significant science background that somebody else did the work.

Sometimes people just have a passion for it, and they know what to do and they do it. When I won, it was in a field unfamiliar to my teacher, so it was my own/my groups work. When my students won, I felt like a fraud when people congratulated me, because my function was to sign the forms and proof read their work as I hadn’t a clue what they were up to. When students would cold-call me and ask if they could use something in the lab, the answer was always yes, and I would help them in any way that I could.

In conclusion/TL/DR: it is suspicious, but from experience sometimes kids are just *that* good at science.

Marty Bird

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I would have thought it more believable with his mother in the same field. Tbh

My dad was a plumber and just from being around him as a child I had a good knowledge of plumbing long before I got into it myself

I’m not saying the lad didn’t do the work but what I find strange is that his mother supervised another student to carry out a study on a wild flower to fight MRSA 11 years ago, he is using plants found in the back garden to do the same. If it was unique then great but this has been done with similar plants and too not mention the mother who is highly regarded in this field is also strange. Do I think he cheated ? I honestly don’t know looks more a case of it’s not what you know but who you know.

AndrewJRenko

judeboy101 wrote: »

Some use an American model of pairing with universities etc. Kinsale and synge street are notorious at young scientist for this.

Are you saying that there is something wrong with a school pairing up with a university?

mfceiling

Sam Quentin wrote: »

My grandfather was a great carpenter, my dad was a great carpenter.. And now apparently I'm a great carpenter!?
Just saying....

What's happening jesus...

Bunny Colvin

Children from privileged backgrounds can't cheat, it's genetics. Even if they did, their parents are probably pillars of the local community so that would cancel it out anyhow.

Sleeper12

mfceiling wrote:

What's happening jesus...

He was a carpenter too I believe.

evolving_doors

I just think the papers didn't give details of the mother's work because the info wasn't volunteered.
Maybe the kid didn't think her work carried any importance :pac:

evolving_doors

Sleeper12 wrote: »

He was a carpenter too I believe.

Well his 'dad' was anyway.

Roger Hassenforder

Its majes a sh1t of all the kids that enter honestly in the spirit of the thing.

Dakota Dan

beertons wrote: »

This has been going on for years, kids showing their parents work.

Also inventing things that have been around for years. Two examples would be yourman with the hobo stove and the two farmers sons with the Californian mastitis test kit.

TheAnalyst_

sullivlo wrote: »

I spoke this years winner during the week. I did a postdoc position on a similar project so I had a genuine interest in it, and a good knowledge of the techniques he used. The kid is great, and he 100% did the work himself. 

The kid sounds clueless.

"These are organic, they don’t harbour any toxicity that you may get from industrialised antibiotics," he said.

evolving_doors

Organic and toxicity in the same sentence... definitely influenced by a herbalist.