BT Young Scientist - is there something fishy? MOD Note in OP

bucketybuck · 14-01-2018 2:23pm

222233 wrote: »

So the study had already been published by his mother? i'm confused.

You must be if you think the only way a son can access his mothers research is through publications.

evolving_doors · 14-01-2018 2:23pm

deezell wrote: »

Failure to disclose your resources and cite previous work leads to reactions exactly like this thread. What else can you expect after reading gushing tributes like this;
"His project has led to the discovery of a potential new antibiotic capable of beating antimicrobial resistant bacteria including MRSA. He’s been working on it for two years and was inspired by his herbalist grand-father Eddie Lucey"
Will Goodbody looks like a tabloid journalist after that.
If the €35,000 worth of research in 2007 didn't produce the goods, then this is not going anywhere. I know we all need to encourage kids, but "false praise is worse than no praise"

He didn't disclose on tv and other media... nor was he obliged to.
But he might have cited and disclosed in the actual submission. We don't know. Nothing wrong with building upon previous research.
Previous research wasn't on bramble either , to my knowledge. So Maybe it was the grandfather who suggested that avenue.
I'd hazard a guess that the grandfather had an influence on the mum too so you can see why the kid cites him primarily.

14-01-2018 2:26pm

evolving_doors wrote: »

Very Similar one associated with mother. May not have been precisely her research topic.
https://www.google.ie/amp/amp.irishexaminer.com/ireland/health/mrsa-faces-defeat-from-wild-flower-48105.html

I see but I would assume that from a research perspective the idea is still novel insofar as, while the topic of nature and MRSA have been previously studied, his experiment involved a different area of exploration. Just my two cents. I think alot of research comes from other research as I previously mentioned, that's why I don't think it's right to assume that the idea is in some way copied.

14-01-2018 2:27pm

bucketybuck wrote: »

You must be if you think the only way a son can access his mothers research is through publications.

But if it's not published how do we know his mother was investigating this exact line of enquiry?

evolving_doors · 14-01-2018 2:28pm

222233 wrote: »

I see but I would assume that from a research perspective the idea is still novel insofar as, while the topic of nature and MRSA have been previously studied, his experiment involved a different area of exploration. Just my two cents. I think alot of research comes from other research as I previously mentioned, that's why I don't think it's right to assume that the idea is in some way copied.

True indeed.

Loads of things in nature kill Mrsa too .... light, honey, silver.

Heck..ill bet scientists didn't try blasting it with pi55 yet. Could be a winner next year for a junior AH entry... guided by yor ma of course.

judeboy101 · 14-01-2018 2:32pm

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/287204937_A_post-antibiotic_era_looms_Can_plant_natural_product_research_fill_the_void

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Brigid_Lucey

evolving_doors · 14-01-2018 2:48pm

judeboy101 wrote: »

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/287204937_A_post-antibiotic_era_looms_Can_plant_natural_product_research_fill_the_void

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Brigid_Lucey

Does it mention bramble though!

Even if it does, be might have progressed the experimentation in it.

Stoner · 14-01-2018 2:51pm

evolving_doors wrote:

I'd hazard a guess that the grandfather had an influence on the mum too so you can see why the kid cites him primarily.

It's not who he included it's who was left out, if the grandparent is the primary, is the mother the secondary influence?

We'd have to know that beforehand developing this further.

spurious · 14-01-2018 3:00pm

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

His mum isn't just a supportive parent who happens to be an academic, she's a woman who's been directly involved in an academic study of the exact same subject her son has won a prize for studying.

This, I'm afraid is what makes it smell a bit high for me. That and the fact that she seems to have been pencilled out of things, replaced by herbalist grandad.

Tom Mann Centuria · 14-01-2018 3:04pm

spurious wrote: »

This, I'm afraid is what makes it smell a bit high for me. That and the fact that she seems to have been pencilled out of things, replaced by herbalist grandad.

I think it could be a well meaning effort from family to give him the credit he may well deserve, but I think it's completely backfired and the optics (pardon they buzz word) are dreadful.

fullstop · 14-01-2018 3:18pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Its a disgrace Joe.

Why does someone have to post this exact response on every single one of these type of threads?

judeboy101 · 14-01-2018 3:20pm

evolving_doors wrote: »

judeboy101 wrote: »

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/287204937_A_post-antibiotic_era_looms_Can_plant_natural_product_research_fill_the_void

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Brigid_Lucey

Does it mention bramble though!

Even if it does, be might have progressed the experimentation in it.

https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=YNAwZIAAAAAJ&hl=en

Mammy did same experiment except substitute rubus for salix

Fann Linn · 14-01-2018 3:23pm

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

I think it could be a well meaning effort from family to give him the credit he may well deserve, but I think it's completely backfired and the optics (pardon they buzz word) are dreadful.

Yes. Kinda like that time I baked the cake for my daughter's home ec competition.

Tom Mann Centuria · 14-01-2018 3:24pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

Yes. Kinda like that time I baked the cake for my daughter's home ec competition.

Did you win?

The high horse brigade · 14-01-2018 3:25pm

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Did you win?

Did you win 7k?

Tom Mann Centuria · 14-01-2018 3:27pm

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Did you win 7k?

Did I win 7k for someone else's cake? Hopefully, though I haven't received any notification yet.

_Dara_ · 14-01-2018 3:34pm

Dr.MickKiller wrote: »

Well, well, what a pretty picture Father Crilly has painted! How dare you bring shame on this celebration of sheep!

I just love that you didn't adapt this to the Young Scientist comp. Nope, full steam ahead with a full on Ted reference.

Fann Linn · 14-01-2018 3:39pm

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Did you win?

2nd or 3rd I think.
The other kids mother baked a better one!!

Tom Mann Centuria · 14-01-2018 3:41pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

2nd or 3rd I think.
The other kids mother baked a better one!!

Victoria Sponge next year, guaranteed winner.

Stoner · 14-01-2018 3:53pm

Fann Linn wrote:

2nd or 3rd I think. The other kids mother baked a better one!!

Their granny probably chipped in too though, you didn't stand a chance.

_Dara_ · 14-01-2018 3:56pm

222233 wrote: »

But if it's not published how do we know his mother was investigating this exact line of enquiry?

Not all data is published but will still exist in lab journals.

14-01-2018 3:59pm

_Dara_ wrote: »

Not all data is published but will still exist in lab journals.

Yes, however I doubt this would be easily accessible in public domain for someone to suggest that this exact study was already being done.

_Dara_ · 14-01-2018 4:06pm

222233 wrote: »

Yes, however I doubt this would be easily accessible in public domain for someone to suggest that this exact study was already being done.

Sometimes it is; in published articles, reference is often made to unpublished data.

lawred2 · 14-01-2018 4:06pm

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

There was another winner a while back (1999?) from Cork, a girl called Sarah Flannery who developed an encryption algorithm. The algorithm itself ended up having some major flaws, but what was interesting about it at the time is that her father is/was a math lecturer in CIT and had worked in this area for a while.
So was a 15 year old really reading unpublished work from obscure Irish academics and basing her work on their research or did her dad use a friends unpublished work as a springboard to get his daughter a load of media attention and scholarship offers?

He lectured me in engineering maths. Nice lad but it was his work.

14-01-2018 4:13pm

_Dara_ wrote: »

Sometimes it is; in published articles, reference is often made to unpublished data.

Is that the case here though? this is the point I'm making, we can't just assume. The research may have a completely different approach to whatever was already being explored.

_Dara_ · 14-01-2018 4:27pm

222233 wrote: »

Is that the case here though?

Dunno.

Bitches Be Trypsin · 14-01-2018 4:30pm

His mother currently lectures me in CIT, she doesn't lecture in UCC, just to clear that up. She is an incredibly honest, successful and ethical woman, and while she may have helped him in his studies, I have no doubt at all that the boy did the majority of the work.

judeboy101 · 14-01-2018 4:31pm

222233 wrote: »

_Dara_ wrote: »

Sometimes it is; in published articles, reference is often made to unpublished data.

Is that the case here though? this is the point I'm making, we can't just assume. The research may have a completely different approach to whatever was already being explored.

I think at this point you need to apply occams razor. What's the simplest scenario.

Bitches Be Trypsin · 14-01-2018 4:33pm

Also, it's a widely accepted fact that antimicrobials to MRSA are found in plants and soil based bacteria. She did do a similar study, but most scientific studies are based off studies from before, and they are tweaked and changed to produce different results. That's science, not cheating IMO.

Tom Mann Centuria · 14-01-2018 4:34pm

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote: »

Also, it's a widely accepted fact that antimicrobials to MRSA are found in plants and soil based bacteria. She did do a similar study, but most scientific studies are based off studies from before, and they are tweaked and changed to produce different results. That's science, not cheating IMO.

More than one similar study.

Here's another guess. He/they went for a better backstory ala x factor about his grandad, rather than more mundane, it's what his mum's been involved in for almost a decade.

Or he just doesn't like his mum and therefore didn't want to acknowledge her.

BT Young Scientist - is there something fishy? MOD Note in OP

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