BT Young Scientist - is there something fishy? MOD Note in OP

Bitches Be Trypsin

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

More than one similar study.

Here's another guess. He/they went for a better backstory ala x factor about his grandad, rather than more mundane, it's what his mum's been involved in for almost a decade.

Or he just doesn't like his mum and therefore didn't want to acknowledge her.

I'm currently doing research on finding an antibiotic against MRSA in CIT. I'm using soil samples. Dr. Lucey has guided me and taught me for the last two years about various aspects of biology. However, I'm not copying her project. How can you say he is, and I'm not?

judeboy101

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote: »

His mother currently lectures me in CIT, she doesn't lecture in UCC, just to clear that up. She is an incredibly honest, successful and ethical woman, and while she may have helped him in his studies, I have no doubt at all that the boy did the majority of the work.

I had a lecturer in college, who was the kindest, gentlest caring man, always available to help you out or chat about a problem. except during July when he packed his bag, donned his sash and joined his brethren on the hill in drumcree and forced his way through to the garvaghy road. The moral of my story is, you'll do things for your family that you wouldn't want others knowing about.

_Dara_

I think what's making people suspicious is NOT mentioning his mother. It's a glaring omission as there's no way she had no influence on her son. She works in the field and they share a house.

judeboy101

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote: »

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

More than one similar study.

Here's another guess. He/they went for a better backstory ala x factor about his grandad, rather than more mundane, it's what his mum's been involved in for almost a decade.

Or he just doesn't like his mum and therefore didn't want to acknowledge her.

I'm currently doing research on finding an antibiotic against MRSA in CIT. I'm using soil samples. Dr. Lucey has guided me and taught me for the last two years about various aspects of biology. However, I'm not copying her project. How can you say he is, and I'm not?

You can't get grounded if you don't do what your told, he can.

Bitches Be Trypsin

judeboy101 wrote: »

I had a lecturer in college, who was the kindest, gentlest caring man, always available to help you out or chat about a problem. except during July when he packed his bag, donned his sash and joined his brethren on the hill in drumcree and forced his way through to the garvaghy road. The moral of my story is, you'll do things for your family that you wouldn't want others knowing about.

I have no doubt that she would have helped him and guided him, but not to the extent of cheating.

Fann Linn

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote: »

I have no doubt that she would have helped him and guided him, but not to the extent of cheating.

Where is the fine line?

Bitches Be Trypsin

Fann Linn wrote: »

Where is the fine line?

The fine line is taking inspiration, ideas, methods and backgrounds from others work, but not the work itself. He didn't cross that line.

Tom Mann Centuria

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote: »

I'm currently doing research on finding an antibiotic against MRSA in CIT. I'm using soil samples. Dr. Lucey has guided me and taught me for the last two years about various aspects of biology. However, I'm not copying her project. How can you say he is, and I'm not?

Where in that post have I said he copied his mother?

_Dara_

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote: »

I'm currently doing research on finding an antibiotic against MRSA in CIT. I'm using soil samples. Dr. Lucey has guided me and taught me for the last two years about various aspects of biology. However, I'm not copying her project. How can you say he is, and I'm not?

She'll be credited in your work though. She might even be second author if you publish. We don't know if she wasn't credited in his work but in this context, it's strange that he didn't mention her. He did bring up his inspirations.

jd

Oh dear - where did he pick up this naturalistic fallacy?

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

The kid sounds clueless.

"These are organic, they don’t harbour any toxicity that you may get from industrialised antibiotics," he said.

Bigus

Definitely a conspiracy, I hear the Collison brothers owe their Daddy and their teacher 5 billion , and are paying it off slowly to avoid arousing suspicion about Stripe.

evolving_doors

Bigus wrote: »

Definitely a conspiracy, I hear the Collison brothers owe their Daddy and their teacher 5 billion , and are paying it off slowly to avoid arousing suspicion about Stripe.

What's this got to do with the collison brothers?

Bigus

evolving_doors wrote: »

What's this got to do with the collison brothers?

Young scientists runner up
And subsequent winner in 2005 so it proves young winners can stand on their own afterwards

123654789

_Dara_ wrote: »

She'll be credited in your work though. She might even be second author if you publish. We don't know if she wasn't credited in his work but in this context, it's strange that he didn't mention her. He did bring up his inspirations.

So you have NO idea if she was credited or not but it's not stopping you from making insinuations?

Has anyone here actually read the acknowledgments in the project itself?

This thread is horrible. Irish begrudgery at its worst, based on not a shred of evidence.

Sardonicat

humpsterfire wrote: »

Its national dick-waving, but using adolescent dicks as a front, with big, secretive, hefty langers swinging pendulously in the background shadows.

The mental image this invokes is not pleasant.

AllForIt

fullstop wrote: »

NIMAN wrote: »

Its a disgrace Joe.

Why does someone have to post this exact response on every single one of these type of threads?

It's a disgrace Joe.

AllForIt

I have a science degree from UCD. Yeah big deal but here's my point. What I see when these kinds of events are taking place are employees from universities, heads of schools, professors etc doing their best to promote science subjects. There was one from UCD on RTE last week at the event rabbiting on about how fun science is, how anyone can do it and all that malarkey. She actually said that anyone can learn anything, that their is a misconception that one doesn't needs to be naturally good at maths..it's not true...anyone can just learn it... anyone can code etc etc.

I couldn't disagree more with her - in fact I think that's all lies afaic. I found my science degree fairly brutal and unnecessarily so. Once they convince the student to go science - all this it's so easy anyone can do it is thrown out the windows and they will design the course to give you more to do than most can handle. In my 4th year at UCD only 1/3 of the original class was left when I didn't see anyone particularly in the first few years who didn't have a great deal of natural ability. Most students turned up for most lectures and most tutorials and yet so many didn't make the final year.

I found the general attitude in the college was - 'well you might think your intelligent and you might think you've got some natural talent for this subject - but we are going to show you that that is not enough'. A far cry from the impression the representative from UCD on RTE attempted to create.

The fact is is that science and engineering subjects etc take an effort way beyond what is required in many other lucrative subject areas and the reason not enough students are taking STEM subjects is because they know that to be the case and they simply don't want that kind of life and who can blame them. They are not particularly well paid which is another issue. I wouldn't encourage anyone to go into science unless they were not just good at it but completely in love with it.

Gadgetman496

I'm a tad confused, can someone enlighten me?

This years winner was 15-year-old Simon Meehan from Coláiste Choilm in Ballincollig in Cork

The article from 2007 mentions "Dr Brigid Lucey, a senior medical scientist with the microbiology department of Cork University Hospital and Dr Lesley Cotter, a lecturer in biomedical sciences at CIT."

Neither have the surname "Meehan" so who is his mother?

r93kaey5p2izun

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

I'm a tad confused, can someone enlighten me?

This years winner was 15-year-old Simon Meehan from Coláiste Choilm in Ballincollig in Cork

The article from 2007 mentions "Dr Brigid Lucey, a senior medical scientist with the microbiology department of Cork University Hospital and Dr Lesley Cotter, a lecturer in biomedical sciences at CIT."

Neither have the surname "Meehan" so who is his mother?

Dr Brigid Lucey.

Carlos Orange

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

I'm a tad confused, can someone enlighten me?

This years winner was 15-year-old Simon Meehan from Coláiste Choilm in Ballincollig in Cork

The article from 2007 mentions "Dr Brigid Lucey, a senior medical scientist with the microbiology department of Cork University Hospital and Dr Lesley Cotter, a lecturer in biomedical sciences at CIT."

Neither have the surname "Meehan" so who is his mother?

Life isn't that simple any more. Brigid Lucey is his mum.

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Cork-does-it-again-Simons-discovery-wins-Young-Scientist-Exhibition-8796cb4c-bec5-4359-a358-5b5f7c25982d-ds

evolving_doors

not uncommon for academics to keep maiden name.

NinetyTwoTeam

It's just like in the Simpsons pinebox derby race episode.

Well off academic parents = you get to cruise in the Roadkill 2000.

Working class parents = you have to drive the wonky car Homer Simpson built that falls apart before the finish line.

Except in reality the cheater always wins, as he did in the young scientist contest. It's actually really annoying me now, the parents are probably going around like they are so proud when they should be ashamed.

_Dara_

123654789 wrote: »

So you have NO idea if she was credited or not but it's not stopping you from making insinuations?

It's pretty clear that my posts on this thread have been speculative. I do know for sure that none of the newspaper articles I've read about it have mentioned her very relevant work and that's strange.

But, sure, begrudgery. What a unique angle.

_Dara_

AllForIt wrote: »

I have a science degree from UCD. Yeah big deal but here's my point. What I see when these kinds of events are taking place are employees from universities, heads of schools, professors etc doing their best to promote science subjects. There was one from UCD on RTE last week at the event rabbiting on about how fun science is, how anyone can do it and all that malarkey. She actually said that anyone can learn anything, that their is a misconception that one doesn't needs to be naturally good at maths..it's not true...anyone can just learn it... anyone can code etc etc.

I couldn't disagree more with her - in fact I think that's all lies afaic. I found my science degree fairly brutal and unnecessarily so.

As another science grad - I'd have to disagree with it being a bad thing to promote STEM as such. My biology degree was not that hard. Seriously. Many people are intimidated by science, lose their confidence in regards to learning it and put it on this pedestal and are in awe of anyone who studies it at university. I'm like 'Wha'?'. It takes a bit of pondering and a bit of study but that's it. Just like any other subject. It takes attuning to a certain way of thinking but the mind can trained for that purpose.

I took up chemistry in first year of university having only Junior Cert chemistry to my name. This was Trinity where the lecturers moved fast and you had to get up to speed quickly. Through sheer force of will and perspiration, it was my best exam result at the end of first year. I'm no genius, I just sat down and told myself I could do it and studied.

c.p.w.g.w

_Dara_ wrote: »

As another science grad - I'd have to disagree with it being a bad thing to promote STEM as such. My biology degree was not that hard. Seriously. Many people are intimidated by science, lose their confidence in regards to learning it and put it on this pedestal and are in awe of anyone who studies it at university. I'm like 'Wha'?'. It takes a bit of pondering and a bit of study but that's it. Just like any other subject. It takes attuning to a certain way of thinking but the mind can trained for that purpose.

I took up chemistry in first year of university having only Junior Cert chemistry to my name. This was Trinity where the lecturers moved fast and you had to get up to speed quickly. Through sheer force of will and perspiration, it was my best exam result at the end of first year. I'm no genius, I just sat down and told myself I could do it and studied.

I certainly think Biology is probably the easiest out of Chemistry, Physic's & Biology.

I has planned to do Sports Science in college, went to an open day and they literally scared me(and a handful of others) away with all the chemistry talk, well at the time i thought it was more chemistry with zero Biology from the way they spoke about the course.

But having known a few people to graduate the course i know it wasn't has chemistry heavy as they lead on.

_Dara_

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

I certainly think Biology is probably the easiest out of Chemistry, Physic's & Biology.

I has planned to do Sports Science in college, went to an open day and they literally scared me(and a handful of others) away with all the chemistry talk, well at the time i thought it was more chemistry with zero Biology from the way they spoke about the course.

But having known a few people to graduate the course i know it wasn't has chemistry heavy as they lead on.

Chemistry is grand. I was terrified but it’s very logical. Biology is messier.

c.p.w.g.w

_Dara_ wrote: »

Chemistry is grand. I was terrified but it’s very logical. Biology is messier.

Always found Biology the easiest, could have been my teacher in school

Wombatman

_Dara_ wrote: »

It's pretty clear that my posts on this thread have been speculative. I do know for sure that none of the newspaper articles I've read about it have mentioned her very relevant work and that's strange.

But, sure, begrudgery. What a unique angle.

From the IT

A 15-year-old student from Co Cork who discovered a natural antibiotic in a blackberry bramble plant in his back garden has won the top prize at the 54th BT Young Scientist & Technology Exhibition.

Simon Meehan of Coláiste Choilm, Ballincollig, who was declared BT Young Scientist and Technologist of the Year at an awards ceremony in Dublin’s RDS on Friday night, found the “non toxic, organic, original antibiotic” after analysing 10 plants widely available in his locality.

“People are going deep into the Amazon rainforest looking for new antibiotics. But I’m a 15-year-old boy who found this down his own back garden. That has got to be amazing,” he told The Irish Times.

“I feel, without disrespecting the scientific community too much, that there should be some conclusions from this. We are over-thinking science in too many ways.”

His work combined botany, microbiology and analytic chemistry to demonstrate its effectiveness in killing Staphylococcus aureus, a bug that infects humans and is increasingly resistant to antibiotic treatment, especially when it comes in the form of the hospital-acquired infection MRSA. It was also shown to be effective in killing Pseudomonas aeruginosa, a potentially deadly bug, especially for those with cystic fibrosis.

He extracted anti-microbial agents from aerial parts of plants and their roots using ethanol and then tested their antibiotic effects.

The fourth year student has dedicated his work to his grandfather, Eddie Lucey, a well-known herbalist and science teacher in Bandon. Now 82, he helped people with medical conditions using herbs grown in his back garden; a tradition going back generations in his family.

“He has inspired my work. I am indebted to him for my knowledge.”
Simon, who had a framed picture of his grandfather on the display stand for his project, believes he is inheriting that rich tradition but in a different way. He loved botany as a child, he said, and that grew with the help of his teacher Karina Lyne into an avid interest in microbiology. He hopes to go on to a career in pharmaceuticals.

Judge and chair of the biological and ecological sciences category Prof John O’Halloran, said: “This is a really exciting project which explores the possibility of the blackberry leaf extract’s ability to control harmful bacteria.

Disingenuous is an understatement. Credit to the grandfather and the teacher but no mention of the mother, in any interview, who oversaw very similar research in the past.

Then the hubris to claim he discovered the link and to go on to criticize the scientific community at large for "over-thinking science".

Anyone who believes that this project was not orchestrated by the mother, to the smallest detail, including the misdirecting photo of the granddad is livening fairyland.

I believed there were plenty of hardworking, talented, students in the field who where let down by the overall decision and resulting hype. Nothing to do with begrudgery, everything to do with a desire for fair play.

Stinks to high heaven IMHO.

weldoninhio

sullivlo wrote: »

As somebody who has:
- won the young scientist myself
- supervised/mentored a project that won two significant prizes
- worked at the young scientist
- provided assistance with reagents/equipment to projects over the years
- judged at science competitions

... I have some strong opinions on this topic, and am in a good position to comment.

Is it suspicious? Absolutely.

Is there a chance that parents/teachers had a say in the project? Yes.

Are there students out there that are just amazing and use their own initiative and contacts to get help? 100%.

When my students won, I was gobsmacked at the list of people that they had contacted for help. Not for the people to do the experiment, but for help with a technique or a technical aspect of the project. In the same way that when I was in academia I would help students who contacted me.

At the event, students are subjected to judging by experts in a field, and they are grilled to ensure that they did the work themselves, and it is quickly very obvious as to what they actually did and what anybody else did.

I spoke this years winner during the week. I did a postdoc position on a similar project so I had a genuine interest in it, and a good knowledge of the techniques he used. The kid is great, and he 100% did the work himself. Did his family help? Absolutely. His family inspired him through discussion, and would have aided him in his choice of interest by discussing their own work at home over the years.

There were several other incredible projects on display this year. Projects that, on paper, were better than the winning projects. But within two minutes it was obvious to anyone with any significant science background that somebody else did the work.

Sometimes people just have a passion for it, and they know what to do and they do it. When I won, it was in a field unfamiliar to my teacher, so it was my own/my groups work. When my students won, I felt like a fraud when people congratulated me, because my function was to sign the forms and proof read their work as I hadn’t a clue what they were up to. When students would cold-call me and ask if they could use something in the lab, the answer was always yes, and I would help them in any way that I could.

In conclusion/TL/DR: it is suspicious, but from experience sometimes kids are just *that* good at science.

Q. How many schools in Ireland do you know that are allowed use pathogenic bacterial strains, like this kid used for his project??

A. None

NeonSquares

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

There was another winner a while back (1999?) from Cork, a girl called Sarah Flannery who developed an encryption algorithm. The algorithm itself ended up having some major flaws, but what was interesting about it at the time is that her father is/was a math lecturer in CIT and had worked in this area for a while.
So was a 15 year old really reading unpublished work from obscure Irish academics and basing her work on their research or did her dad use a friends unpublished work as a springboard to get his daughter a load of media attention and scholarship offers?

Hate to break it to you but Sarah is a very intelligent individual, the family upbringing had a lot to do with it, her brother is Mick Flanery(Irish musician).

Yes her parents are(former) educators but they obviously fostered the kids pretty good during they're upbringing.

Didn't she also turn down a ton of money and give away the algorithm for free?.