Aziz Ansari - sexual assault or unwarranted assault on reputation

Silentcorner

Mokuba wrote: »

It must be amazing to live in a world where you freely make things up to suit your own narrative.

The world of publishing, online or otherwise is a highly litigious environment, no one would know that more than a group of editors....that is not a narrative, that is a fact...jesus...that would be common sense I would have thought!

Silentcorner

Graham wrote: »

You're basing this understanding on........

You got me...I'm making it up...publishers are allowed to publish whatever they want on whoever they want...

The fact that he was named is ominous in my opinion, that decision was not take lightly...

Graham

Silentcorner wrote: »

The world of publishing, online or otherwise is a highly litigious environment, no one would know that more than a group of editors....that is not a narrative, that is a fact...jesus...that would be common sense I would have thought!

No actually, it's really not. Press are reasonably well protected across the globe.

Let's remember it's the young woman making the accusations here, not the web site.

Silentcorner

Graham wrote: »

No actually, it's really not. Press are reasonably well protected across the globe.

Let's remember it's the young woman making the accusations here, not the web site.

Your kidding me...media outlets are forever getting sued...in this country media outlets won't name individual Business men unless they have to for fear of litigation....

The young one is making the accusations....the website is responsible for its content....just like all media outlets are...unless it is social media where it is a free for all...

Ralf and Florian

:rolleyes:

https://twitter.com/samrboland/status/952659027820937218

Graham

Silentcorner wrote: »

Your kidding me...media outlets are forever getting sued...in this country

accuser, accused and media in question are not in this country. That's probably where your confusion stems from.

getting back on topic

The part that really has me scratching my head is the womans belief that Aziz should have clearly picked up on her "clear non-verbal signals".

It's probably fair to suggest that giving someone a blowjob is a fairly clear non-verbal signal.

That's not to say any person shouldn't be able to stop sexual activity at any point but it's not unreasonable to suggest that 'withdrawal of consent' should be explicit and unambiguous, not implied/hinted.

Silentcorner

Graham wrote: »

accuser, accused and media in question are not in this country. That's probably where your confusion stems from.

getting back on topic

The part that really has me scratching my head is the womans belief that Aziz should have clearly picked up on her "clear non-verbal signals".

It's probably fair to suggest that giving someone a blowjob is a fairly clear non-verbal signal.

That's not to say any person shouldn't be able to stop sexual activity at any point but it's not unreasonable to suggest that 'withdrawal of consent' should be explicit and unambiguous, not implied/hinted.

Why did you misrepresent what I said?

I was giving an example of what it is like in this country so we can all relate to the point I was making....I never suggested they were all based in this county...why did you do that?

I think he behaved appallingly to her from the start...it escalated when they got back to the apartment...even if it is not a sexual assault this guy has very little self awareness and complete disregard for her...

According to the account

She was naked within 5 minutes of returning to the apartment
She had performed oral sex within ten minutes...(which she claims to have been uncomfortable with)

She had a duty of care to herself to get out of the situation at that point but she didn't...

After that first ten minutes she tried repeatedly to slow things down...

He was ignoring her signals and her wishes...

She said lets calm down an chill, or words to that effect...
She refused to grab his c##k...despite repeated attempts
She claims he followed her around the apartment for 30 mins...which implies she was moving away from him for 30 mins...
She refused to have sex with him...at this point he stopped...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_assault

"But you sucked my d##k ten minutes ago" does not give any man the right to subject a woman to that in my opinion...

Graham

Silentcorner wrote: »

She said lets calm down an chill, or words to that effect...
She refused to grab his c##k...despite repeated attempts
She claims he followed her around the apartment for 30 mins...which implies she was moving away from him for 30 mins...
She refused to have sex with him...at this point he stopped...

OK so even with your fairly slanted interpretation of the 'article' you're saying when she was clear and unambiguous he stopped?

Like I said:

It's not unreasonable to suggest that 'withdrawal of consent' should be explicit and unambiguous, not implied/hinted.

Silentcorner

Graham wrote: »

OK so even with your fairly slanted interpretation of the 'article' you're saying when she was clear and unambiguous he stopped?

Like I said:

It's not unreasonable to suggest that 'withdrawal of consent' should be explicit and unambiguous, not implied/hinted.

Could I not accuse you of having a slanted interpretation of the article, just because I am in the minority does not automatically mean I am wrong...or I alone have a slanted interpretation...

She never gave consent in the first place....going back to someones apartment is not consent....allowing a person to take off all your clothes and performing oral sex on him is not consent....how can she "withdraw consent" if she never gave it in the first place...

Most of us don't obtain formal consent, we proceed with due care observing how your partner is reacting to what is happening...ignoring how your partner is reacting does not resolve a person...

All I did, having read the account was put myself in his shoes, after ten minutes when he suggested grabbing a condom, she said "Whoa, Calm down, lets chill a bit"...if that happened to me, I would be very careful what my next move would be....neither of these two people were drunk by the way...alarm bells would be ringing....she is not moving at the speed I am....after that did he respect her boundaries, I do not think so....

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

She never gave consent in the first place....going back to someones apartment is not consent....allowing a person to take off all your clothes and performing oral sex on him is not consent....how can she "withdraw consent" if she never gave it in the first place...

Seriously? That's warped. You also missed out on him performing oral sex on her...

Okay. Let me understand you. How does one gain consent?

Will I Am Not

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Seriously? That's warped.

Okay. Let me understand you. How does one gain consent?

Every man should carry a scroll, a quill and a jar of ink.

Silentcorner

Deleted User wrote: »

Seriously? That's warped. You also missed out on him performing oral sex on her...

Okay. Let me understand you. How does one gain consent?

I left that part out because that wasn't necessarily voluntary on her part...performing oral sex on him was...

In my experience you pay a bit of attention to the body language of your partner...simple as that really...isn't that what we all do....

stunmer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1o_iY99eeA

Graham

Silentcorner wrote: »

In my experience you pay a bit of attention to the body language of your partner

Again, a blowjob is fairly unambiguous body language.

I never thought I'd have to explain this to anyone but anyway...

If you give somebody oral sex, there's a pretty good chance they are going to infer consent from the activity.

If you then decide to stop (as is your right at any point) then it is in the interest of both parties that you communicate that clearly/specifically/verbally.

Does that sound reasonable/sensible?

Wibbs

Silentcorner wrote: »

She never gave consent in the first place....going back to someones apartment is not consent....allowing a person to take off all your clothes and performing oral sex on him is not consent....how can she "withdraw consent" if she never gave it in the first place...

What the holy hell rabbit hole have we gone down now? A woman stripping, dropping and giving me a blow job is not consenting? Now before anyone bunches knickers here, it doesn't automatically mean sexual intercourse is to follow(though makes it more likely), but it's a pretty good indicator the night's going well.

Maybe we're at cross purposes as to how "consent" is defined. It seems to require some mind reading in your definition. And zero responsibility in the case of the woman to make her consent or not clear. She chose to go on the date. She chose to go back to his gaff. She chose to get naked. She chose to lick his boy bits. She chose to let him lick her girl bits. Every step of the way they were all her choices. She was not forced at any point. Unless you think this guy is some kind of mesmerist.

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

I didn't, I mentioned it in the part of my quote that you highlighted.

In my experience you pay a bit of attention to the body language of your partner...simple as that really...isn't that what we all do....

Nope, your quote only referred to her doing him... not him doing her. It's kinda difficult to do oral sex if the woman keeps her legs closed. She allowed him to do her, which does suggest consent. (although I do think she gave consent well before that... and didn't withdraw it)

And your body language perspective about consent... seems rather unreliable, and prone to misinterpretation. The woman in the article is giving off contradictory messages.

And in my experience, If a woman doesn't want to do something sexually, she'll say so. After all, the kissing, undressing, oral sex, are all pointers that the main event is coming, and she has plenty of opportunities to say stop. It's not like he tried to do anal without speaking to her about it.

suicide_circus

Wibbs wrote: »

What the holy hell rabbit hole have we gone down now? A woman stripping, dropping and giving me a blow job is not consenting? Now before anyone bunches knickers here, it doesn't automatically mean sexual intercourse is to follow(though makes it more likely), but it's a pretty good indicator the night's going well.

Maybe we're at cross purposes as to how "consent" is defined. It seems to require some mind reading in your definition. And zero responsibility in the case of the woman to make her consent or not clear. She chose to go on the date. She chose to go back to his gaff. She chose to get naked. She chose to lick his boy bits. She chose to let him lick her girl bits. Every step of the way they were all her choices. She was not forced at any point. Unless you think this guy is some kind of mesmerist.

But women have no control over their environment or agency over their actions. Always victims. Now this dosnt tally with any of the women I know in the real world but it seems to be the accepted narrative regarding any male/female intimate interaction that doesn't go perfectly.

kg703

I can't. This is a ridiculous story.

Wibbs

Graham wrote: »

Does that sound reasonable/sensible?

Ah here G, strong words there. Next you'll be talking about people taking responsibility for their choices. :eek:

Given we're ever more going full Victorian on this, may I suggest that since men are generally opportunistic non psychic sexual ogres, the beasts! and women are generally without agency, responsibility or a voice until well after the fact, the poor dears! that we should go the whole hog and bring back chaperones and be done with it.

JMNolan

I see Aziz Ansari has released a statement

The article wrote:

“In September of last year, I met a woman at a party. We exchanged numbers. We texted back and forth and eventually went on a date. We went out to dinner, and afterwards we ended up engaging in sexual activity, which by all indications was completely consensual,” Aziz wrote in a statement on Sunday (January 14).

“The next day, I got a text from her saying that although ‘it may have seemed okay,’ upon further reflection, she felt uncomfortable. It was true that everything did seem okay to me, so when I heard that it was not the case for her, I was surprised and concerned. I took her words to heart and responded privately after taking the time to process what she had said. I continue to support the movement that is happening in our culture. It is necessary and long overdue.”

http://www.justjared.com/2018/01/14/aziz-ansari-responds-to-sexual-misconduct-allegation/

Wibbs

suicide_circus wrote: »

But women have no control over their environment or agency over their actions. Always victims.

Modern US "feminism". Women are always agentless victims and men are always to blame.

Now this dosnt tally with any of the women I know in the real world

Ditto.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

Ah here G, strong words there. Next you'll be talking about people taking responsibility for their choices. :eek:

Given we're ever more going full Victorian on this, may I suggest that since men are generally opportunistic non psychic sexual ogres, the beasts! and women are generally without agency, responsibility or a voice until well after the fact, the poor dears! that we should go the whole hog and bring back chaperones and be done with it.

It's scary because this attitude simply encourages the old justifications for sexism and limiting the freedoms of women. For their own protection. Instead of men doing it (per feminist theory), it'll be women doing it to each other (which is likely how it started in the beginning anyway).

hobie21

I think the time has come for men to sit back, relax and let women make all the moves.

hobie21

hobie21 wrote: »

I think the time has come for men to sit back, relax and let women make all the moves.

I think the birth rate might drop even further in most countries.

I've rarely seen women approach a man in a social setting to make contact (I mean men who are far better looking than I am). I don't think most women will really want to experience the "putting themselves out there" and the rejections (regardless of the manner of the rejection) that tend to go with approaching people. "How dare he refuse me!" haha...

suicide_circus

hobie21 wrote: »

I think the time has come for men to sit back, relax and let women make all the moves.

Not going to happen. Women tend to enjoy being pursued (generalisation but on the whole accurate in my experience).

Omackeral

hobie21 wrote: »

I think the time has come for men to sit back, relax and let women make all the moves.

Just bring a contract to Coppers with you next time in case you pull.

RacoonQueen

On the fence for this one...doesn't sound like sexual assault from the article...does sound like he was very forceful and a bit sleazy. Wouldn't go back to a guys place after a first date myself, you're hardly going back for the chats and a cuppa, would think you're literally going with the same intentions as him? No? Gunna be taking the magic out of relationships if guys are going to have to explicitly ask permission rather than both of you just going with the flow...

Triceratops Ballet

I don't think this is sexual assault, I mean it's definitely not a nice experience, but sometimes dates are just sh1tty, and people are too pushy.

It sounds like the experience of a younger woman, who doesn't have the confidence to just be like "eh no pal I'm outta here". I can easily see being 22 and just kind of going along with stuff 'cos you want him to like you, and thinking if you can just slow it down you can get it back to being a nice flirty date, I did it myself.
Now that I'm older, I wouldn't be having any of it, I know my boundaries and when to call it, I'm not really concerned with seeming polite if I'm not into it.

RacoonQueen

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

I don't think this is sexual assault, I mean it's definitely not a nice experience, but sometimes dates are just sh1tty, and people are too pushy.

It sounds like the experience of a younger woman, who doesn't have the confidence to just be like "eh no pal I'm outta here". I can easily see being 22 and just kind of going along with stuff 'cos you want him to like you, and thinking if you can just slow it down you can get it back to being a nice flirty date, I did it myself.
Now that I'm older, I wouldn't be having any of it, I know my boundaries and when to call it, I'm not really concerned with seeming polite if I'm not into it.

Yeah, sounds like it was just really unpleasant to me. From the article it sounds like he did stop when she asked him to stop...he started up again but if that was me I would actually verbally explain why I had stopped and what I didn't want to do at that stage and probably tell him why, so he knows.

Triceratops Ballet

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Yeah, sounds like it was just really unpleasant to me. From the article it sounds like he did stop when she asked him to stop...he started up again but if that was me I would actually verbally explain why I had stopped and what I didn't want to do at that stage and probably tell him why, so he knows.

exactly, because women tend to read non verbal cues better, I think especially when you're young you assume everyone does and can often think you're being really obvious, in her mind it was probably clear as day that she was having a crappy time, but men in general aren't as good at reading that, so you have to say it.

goose2005

women are socially conditioned to be polite and to prioritise men’s feelings above their own

lol, as if

bnt

Anyone here read The Handmaid's Tale, or at least seen the award-winning TV adaptation? It takes place in a fictional dystopia in which women are categorised in to classes and selectively protected according to their ability to bear children. The Handmaids are the most valuable for that reason, and thus the most protected ... and also, therefore, the most repressed, "for their own good". It's not simply a patriarchy, either: it's a matriarchy too, all for the good of society, and the men suffer in their own ways:

There is more than one kind of freedom, said Aunt Lydia. Freedom to and freedom from. In the days of anarchy, it was freedom to. Now you are being given freedom from. Don't underrate it

goose2005

goose2005 wrote: »

lol, as if

While I agree with you, where did you quote that from?

TerrorFirmer

Deleted User wrote: »

While I agree with you, where did you quote that from?

Louise O' Neill said it on twitter.

FunLover18

The problem here (and I say this as a man) is that some men are not aware of the power and influence their gender grants them as they've never been subject to it. Saying 'no' or stating that they would prefer red wine comes naturally because of this power and influence and the idea that someone might just drink the white wine or give off physical signs of discomfort rather than saying 'no/stop' out of some desire to be polite or avoid direct confrontation is foreign to them (I'm not saying this attitude is right or wrong, but it is an attitude and people, especially men, need to be concsious of it). If someone I don't like tries to engage me in a conversation I don't want, I'll be unresponsive, short, one word responses, any normal person would get the hint. But judging by the responses here, I would literally have to tell them to 'f*ck off', and maybe some people would see no problem with that and that's fine - but you have to understand that people (more importantly men and women) are different and approach social situations differently and a lot of that has to do with social perceptions of how men and women are "supposed" to behave.

Stonedpilot

Shes a vulcher plain and simple after the €€€€€. She was a willing participant.

Reminds me of the case with snooker player Quentin Hann. Accused of rape and in the trial he proved she was very willing indeed in fact she seduced him and was the aggressor.

Women like her need to be sued for defamation and slander. These evil women think nothing of destroying a mans career with lies and embellishments. They need to be held to account.

Aziz should sue the pants off her (no pun intended )

Bambi985

She sounds young and not experienced/confident enough to assert her boundaries definitively and he sounds like a total horn-dog sleaze.

Honestly I'd say most women have had a date or an encounter like this - someone being too forceful and too pushy and jumping your boundaries so quickly that it can make your head spin. I can certainly remember instances of arriving back at someone's place after a date feeling like there was a growing attraction and I'd like to spend more time with them, but them coming on so strong and heavy-handed would immediately change my mind. It's just an immediate "oh god no, what is happening." It's an awkward place to be and you know full well that the finger would be pointed directly at you if anything untoward happens from there. "But why did you go back with him?" "Why didn't you scream NO! and run out the door the second he put his hands down your pants?"

You have to remember that the same folk who will condemn a woman for the above actions/inactions, will profess that women should not be stupid enough to walk home alone late at night or get tipsy with a man they've just met or have a one night stand with a random because men are unpredictable and there's lots of bad eggs out there and rape/murder happens. So maybe she didn't feel safe responding to his aggressive moves towards her with an equally aggressive "NO. FCUK OFF". She thought she was indicating discomfort by pulling back but it wasn't direct enough, and I'd put that down to her inability to navigate a tricky situation probably due to her age and who he was.

FunLover18

FunLover18 wrote: »

]If someone I don't like tries to engage me in a conversation I don't want, I'll be unresponsive, short, one word responses, any normal person would get the hint. But judging by the responses here, I would literally have to tell them to 'f*ck off', and maybe some people would see no problem with that and that's fine -

Except you're inserting a different scenario entirely and assuming our responses to it. She met him well before the date, she accepted his interest, she engaged in flirting text messages for over a week, then arranged a date with him, and accepted going to his home at the end of the first date.

There is nothing about him being aggressive, or pushy when he approached her, nor do any of our remarks suggest that such behavior would be acceptable even if it had occurred that way.

but you have to understand that people (more importantly men and women) are different and approach social situations differently and a lot of that has to do with social perceptions of how men and women are "supposed" to behave.

And everyone has their own viewpoints about how someone is supposed to behave based on their upbringing, social conditioning, experience, etc.

But in any case, most of the comments in this thread are about communicating consent regarding sexual activities. Perhaps stick to the topic in hand?

Mokuba

The mental gymnastics involved in justifying her claim of this incident as sexual assault must be truly exhausting.

Bambi985

Bambi985 wrote: »

She sounds young and not experienced/confident enough to assert her boundaries definitively and he sounds like a total horn-dog sleaze.

Honestly I'd say most women have had a date or an encounter like this - someone being too forceful and too pushy and jumping your boundaries so quickly that it can make your head spin. I can certainly remember instances of arriving back at someone's place after a date feeling like there was a growing attraction and I'd like to spend more time with them, but them coming on so strong and heavy-handed would immediately change my mind. It's just an immediate "oh god no, what is happening." It's an awkward place to be and you know full well that the finger would be pointed directly at you if anything untoward happens from there. "But why did you go back with him?" "Why didn't you scream NO! and run out the door the second he put his hands down your pants?"

You have to remember that the same folk who will condemn a woman for the above actions/inactions, will profess that women should not be stupid enough to walk home alone late at night or get tipsy with a man they've just met or have a one night stand with a random because men are unpredictable and there's lots of bad eggs out there and rape/murder happens. So maybe she didn't feel safe responding to his aggressive moves towards her with an equally aggressive "NO. FCUK OFF". She thought she was indicating discomfort by pulling back but it wasn't direct enough, and I'd put that down to her inability to navigate a tricky situation probably due to her age and who he was.

But she did eventually say no ...

kylith

Deleted User wrote: »

Seriously? That's warped. You also missed out on him performing oral sex on her...

Okay. Let me understand you. How does one gain consent?

You say "Would you like me to...?" especially if its your first sexual encounter with this person. As someone said upthread, some people who lack confidence will go along with things that make them uncomfortable because they want the other person to like them.

And, no, this will not mean the death of spontaneity or whatever other nonsense. Asking is not unsexy. The people saying it's going to be filling out forms in triplicate are talking out their arses and they know it.

Some men are awfully pushy. I went out with a guy once a couple of years ago. He'd travelled to meet me and since I though he was cute I said he could stay in my place. Anywho; it transpired that there was no chemistry there and I did not want to sleep with him so I told him he could stay in my spare room. I literally used the words 'I don't want to have sex with you', but he'd come a long way for the date and I didn't want to leave him with nowhere to stay as it was after midnight, and we got on well enough. We go back to my place, stick a film on, and he pulls The Naked Man when I go to the loo. Then he starts trying to undress me. I am clearly not into it and pushing his hands away. I send him to the spare room and I sleep with a weapon that night. Why didn't I kick him out? In retrospect I should have, but I was a bit drunk, didn't want to be a dick, and was a aware that if I tried to physically turf him out that the situation could turn very nasty for me.

kaymin

kylith wrote: »

You say "Would you like me to...?" especially if its your first sexual encounter with this person. As someone said upthread, some people who lack confidence will go along with things that make them uncomfortable because they want the other person to like them.

And, no, this will not mean the death of spontaneity or whatever other nonsense. Asking is not unsexy. The people saying it's going to be filling out forms in triplicate are talking out their arses and they know it.

Some men are awfully pushy. I went out with a guy once a couple of years ago. He'd travelled to meet me and since I though he was cute I said he could stay in my place. Anywho; it transpired that there was no chemistry there and I did not want to sleep with him so I told him he could stay in my spare room. I literally used the words 'I don't want to have sex with you', but he'd come a long way for the date and I didn't want to leave him with nowhere to stay as it was after midnight, and we got on well enough. We go back to my place, stick a film on, and he pulls The Naked Man when I go to the loo. Then he starts trying to undress me. I am clearly not into it and pushing his hands away. I send him to the spare room and I sleep with a weapon that night. Why didn't I kick him out? In retrospect I should have, but I was a bit drunk, didn't want to be a dick, and was a aware that if I tried to physically turf him out that the situation could turn very nasty for me.

I find it very naive that you would allow a stranger stay over in your house overnight especially when you have no interest in them. Inviting some-one back to their apartment / home is the ultimate lead-on. It is denying reality to think otherwise.

anewme

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

I don't think this is sexual assault, I mean it's definitely not a nice experience, but sometimes dates are just sh1tty, and people are too pushy.

It sounds like the experience of a younger woman, who doesn't have the confidence to just be like "eh no pal I'm outta here". I can easily see being 22 and just kind of going along with stuff 'cos you want him to like you, and thinking if you can just slow it down you can get it back to being a nice flirty date, I did it myself.
Now that I'm older, I wouldn't be having any of it, I know my boundaries and when to call it, I'm not really concerned with seeming polite if I'm not into it.

And as an "older" older woman and long past even thinking about being polite, the wine in the house (do you want white or white) plus scoffing the dinner the scuttling to pay the bill after dinner to leg it back to the house.... would been a clear burning red flag to me that this guy is user and a pomposs asshat that I would have no interest in spending any time in his company and knowing myself now, I'd have probably stayed at the restaurant and finished the wine myself. Maybe even stayed on for another drink and enjoyed the ambiance of my own company.

kylith

kylith wrote: »

You say "Would you like me to...?" especially if its your first sexual encounter with this person. As someone said upthread, some people who lack confidence will go along with things that make them uncomfortable because they want the other person to like them.

And, no, this will not mean the death of spontaneity or whatever other nonsense. Asking is not unsexy. The people saying it's going to be filling out forms in triplicate are talking out their arses and they know it.
.

Oh, I agree with you. I'm very much into being clear wanting such activities before having sex. Verbal Consent is important.

However, the people talking about contracts are referring to the withdrawal of consent which can apparently be done during or after sex has occurred. They're ensuring that the girl doesn't go home after the sexual experience, decide that she didn't want it, and then they could be done for some form of assault/rape.

neonsofa

kaymin wrote: »

I find it very naive that you would allow a stranger stay over in your house overnight especially when you have no interest in them. Inviting some-one back to their apartment / home is the ultimate lead-on. It is denying reality to think otherwise.

Not when it's followed with a clear warning of "I don't want to have sex with you".

LuckyLloyd

Silentcorner wrote: »

She never gave consent in the first place....going back to someones apartment is not consent....allowing a person to take off all your clothes and performing oral sex on him is not consent....how can she "withdraw consent" if she never gave it in the first place...

Most of us don't obtain formal consent, we proceed with due care observing how your partner is reacting to what is happening...ignoring how your partner is reacting does not resolve a person...

Yeah well, I'd say most people would reckon the other person is reacting positively to what is happening when they voluntarily engage in consensual oral sex like.

Maddening state of affairs.

Wibbs

kylith wrote: »

Some men are awfully pushy.

I agree 100% and would happily pillory them for it. But can we agree that some women can be awfully passive, even to the point of actively going along with such things? And personally I'd happily pillory them for that too. In this case she had a long list of points in that night where she could have made a choice, but she didn't, but when she finally expressed her apparent discomfort - after nakedness and oral sex going both ways - he immediately stopped. He misread signals, but she certainly did too, but only he'll get the bollocking for it in the media and trial by twitter.

Stonedpilot

kaymin wrote: »

I find it very naive that you would allow a stranger stay over in your house overnight especially when you have no interest in them. Inviting some-one back to their apartment / home is the ultimate lead-on. It is denying reality to think otherwise.

Shes confusing. Says hes "cute" polite way of saying sexually attractive. That is interest.

I mean in my experience when a woman thinks your cute it means she has an interest.

jiltloop

I get the impression that this girl was open to having sex with him before the night started, he of course was hoping for sex and probably thought it was pretty much a sure thing. He then acted like a complete dick and came on too strong for her.

She was probably (after reading excerpts from his book and reading about him online) expecting a gentle, tender and altogether more romantic encounter but gradually realized that in reality this was not the encounter he was going to provide. She probably stayed longer than she should have because of her expectations, she engaged more than she should have too.

This should just be a mistake that she learns from, I'm sure we all have had sexual encounters that didn't go as planned and may have followed through with them or left. That's a decision that was in her hands and she should be responsible for it.

He clearly was a fumbling dick who doesn't know how to treat a woman, but this wasn't a sexual assault.

kaymin

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Shes confusing. Says hes "cute" polite way of saying sexually attractive. That is interest.

I mean in my experience when a woman thinks your cute it means she has an interest.

And at what point did she say she has no interest - after him traipsing back with her to her house? After he takes the initiative back in the apartment? I just find it odd anyone would invite someone back, with drink taken, to their home when they have no interest in them. Drunk people aren't known for their chivalry so why put yourself in such a vulnerable position.