Czechs go to Ireland, be homeless, get housing.

zell12

IrishTimes - Former homeless Apollo House residents secure home

A Czech couple, who came to Ireland in May 2015 “for a new life” but spent more than a year sleeping rough, now have a home. Tomas and Lucie, sold everything they had in the Czech Republic and came here, believing they were well funded with €3,000. Tomas, a computer programmer, and Lucie, with experience in hotel work, expected to find employment and a place to live easily.
Instead they stayed for three months in hostels. “I worked first in hotels,” says Lucie, but Tomas, with little English then, found it impossible to get work.
in December, the couple moved into a small flat comprising one room, off which is a small galley kitchen and a tiny shower room. It is €1,300 a month and they get HAP.
“It is heaven. Apollo House was a new start for us. Everything is better. One day we will have a home, with no HAP and a good job,”

This makes me angry.
People came to Ireland in 2015 with limited english, failed to get steady employment, and instead of returning home, we taxpayers fund them to live within the canals. Meantime, irish people suffering the same fate are overlooked or suffer.
In other EU countries, migrants who cannot self-fund are deported to home country.
How oft is this story repeated?

Cina

I get what you're saying, but at the same time, the Czech's have given us some wonderful Pornstars and that has to be taken into account.

baylah17

zell12 wrote: »

IrishTimes - Former homeless Apollo House residents secure home


This makes me angry.
People came to Ireland in 2015 with limited english, failed to get steady employment, and instead of returning home, we taxpayers fund them to live within the canals. Meantime, irish people suffering the same fate are overlooked or suffer.
In other EU countries, migrants who cannot self-fund are deported to home country.
How oft is this story repeated?

It is and has been oft repeated by the Irish abroad especially in the UK.
Cop on, they were entitled as EU citizens to come here and to be treated in the same way as an Irish citizen would be treated.

Klinkhammer

zell12 wrote: »

In other EU countries, migrants who cannot self-fund are deported to home country.

What countries are these?

brainfreeze

Klinkhammer wrote: »

What countries are these?

None.

The UK flirted with the idea, deporting EU citizens after 6months of unemployment, but it was ruled illegal and a violation of EU law.

Currently no EU states do this.

edit: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/14/home-office-policy-deporting-eu-citizens-found-rough-sleeping/

zell12

EU/EEA nationals can stay in Ireland for up to 3 months without restriction.
If you plan to stay more than 3 months, you must either:
- Be engaged in economic activity (employed or self employed) or
- Have sufficient resources and sickness insurance to ensure that you do not become a burden on the social services of Ireland or
- Be enrolled as a student or vocational trainee or
- Be a family member of a EU citizen in one of the previous categories.http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/rights_of_residence_in_ireland/residence_rights_eu_national.html

Klinkhammer

brainfreeze wrote: »

None.

The UK flirted with the idea, deporting EU citizens after 6months of unemployment, but it was ruled illegal and a violation of EU law.

Currently no EU states do this.

So are you saying that the op is talking through their hoop?

S. Goodspeed

Fair play to them.

I will probably start to develop a grudge if they are still unemployed in 3 years time and collecting various other forms of welfare (like many, though certainly not all, Irish people on the housing list). If they are working away and paying their fair share of taxes then great, thats exactly the purpose of our welfare system.

Despite all the press, demonstrations and criticism the government gets, Ireland is a good country to be homeless in (either real on the street homeless or living in a hotel homeless). That though does not mean it is still not a horrendous position to be in.

zell12

baylah17 wrote: »

It is and has been oft repeated by the Irish abroad especially in the UK.
Cop on, they were entitled as EU citizens to come here and to be treated in the same way as an Irish citizen would be treated.

UK-IE is a common travel area, seperate to the EU.

wakka12

Im glad they found a place. I feel sorry for them
They're living in a tiny place. They want to get a good job and afford their own house in future. I don't see the big deal

mariaalice

A computer programmer and a hotel worker, she had a job from the get go and he will get job they are not doing you or anyone else any harm.

Look at the English mirror or sun from the early to mid eighties and it full of Irish go home, the amount of Irish homeless in London and why should local authorities look after them.

baylah17

zell12 wrote: »

UK-IE is a common travel area, seperate to the EU.

Does not take away from the fact that this type of thing happens.
I say fair play to this Czech couple for trying to get ahead in life by using their rights as EU citizens to improve their lot, they are the embodiment of what the EU should aspire to be.

weldoninhio

mariaalice wrote: »

A computer programmer and a hotel worker, she had a job from the get go and he will get job they are not doing you or anyone else any harm.

Look at the English mirror or sun from the early to mid eighties and it full of Irish go home, the amount of Irish homeless in London and why should local authorities look after them.

Those damn Irish, not knowing the English language.

lau1247

While foolish to give up everything and move here with limited fund. They fell on hard times and had got help. Now getting back on their feet and found jobs. Sounds to me like they are contributing to the welfare system and trying to do better by their own ability. Not trying to "game" the system in the long run.

I think OP's anger is somewhat misdirected IMO. It should really be at those "gaming" the system instead.

Wheeliebin30

Seriously lads should we all just go homeless and stop paying our mortage?

zell12

lau1247 wrote: »

While foolish to give up everything and move here with limited fund. They fell on hard times and had got help. Now getting back on their feet and found jobs. Sounds to me like they are contributing to the welfare system and trying to do better by their own ability. Not trying to "game" the system in the long run.
I think OP's anger is somewhat misdirected IMO. It should really be at those "gaming" the system instead.

Do you honestly think that if an Irish couple did the reverse that they'd get taxpayer funded housing in central Prague within 2 years?

Gatling

Prime example of how broken the system is .

The idea the people can travel country to be essentially homeless , should be returned to their home countries where they have families and support and not sit on the streets with no English or chances of employment ,

Odelay

zell12 wrote: »

Do you honestly think that if an Irish couple did the reverse that they'd get taxpayer funded housing in central Prague within 2 years?

Only one way you'll find out...

Infini

To be honest I dont see the outrage here. I despise those who come here, do nothing and basically look for everything for free (ie the "romanian" career beggars that harass the vunerable etc) but these 2 seem to have just ended up having a run of bad luck in no part due to less than enough preparation for what they were about to do. They actually want to work and earn their keep hell the guy actually managed to turn things around and to get a intern job with bloody SpaceX who are currently one of the pioneers of private space launches and exploration.

There's some out there who are right wasters who deserve legitimate ire but these guys certainly aren't them. Give em a break and save the outrage for the real problems.

bear1

zell12 wrote: »

IrishTimes - Former homeless Apollo House residents secure home


This makes me angry.
People came to Ireland in 2015 with limited english, failed to get steady employment, and instead of returning home, we taxpayers fund them to live within the canals. Meantime, irish people suffering the same fate are overlooked or suffer.
In other EU countries, migrants who cannot self-fund are deported to home country.
How oft is this story repeated?

Why are you angry?
They came to Ireland with a skill set, particularly the husband and did what they could.
It failed and the state did what the state is obligated to do which is prevent homelessness regardless of where the person is from.
Seems to me the story went from a terrible miscalculation from their part to a mini success story.
It doesn't mention that the entire rent is from the taxpayer, only a portion.
It's much better than hearing about the scrotes that can't be bothered their holes working and still get everything for free. These two tried at least.
Making a drama from nothing in my opinion.

benjamin d

At first glance this does read like one of those "bloody foreigners" stories but if you take a moment to think about it, they came over here with money and a plan, paid their way in hostels for as long as they could, tried to and were partly successful in getting work, and their Appollo House stint reads like a brief hiccup in getting sorted. They're in a home and paying rent, albeit with some HAP assistance. It sounds like they're determined to contribute. Fair play to them I say.

I'm as critical of our welfare system as the next guy but I think here is an example of it being used properly.

BillyBobBS

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Seriously lads should we all just go homeless and stop paying our mortage?

What's a mortage?

lau1247

zell12 wrote: »

Do you honestly think that if an Irish couple did the reverse that they'd get taxpayer funded housing in central Prague within 2 years?

I know irish couple wouldn't be that foolish without researching first (At least I hope not). Either way, I don't think irish couple will get the same treatment and I don't know enough to answer. While I'm here I can also say that I don't know how Czech welfare system work either (if any at all). I'm not saying the irish system is perfect by any means, it could do with a lot of fixing.

All I'm saying is that life can be random at times and it does not come in orderly fashion. Shouldn't we be glad that at least this couple are trying their best to better themselves and contribute without being a burden on the government in the long run?

baylah17

zell12 wrote: »

Do you honestly think that if an Irish couple did the reverse that they'd get taxpayer funded housing in central Prague within 2 years?

They would get whatever Czech citizens are entitled to.
Thems the rules.
Again fair play to this couple.

suicide_circus

They don't sound very bright. Upping sticks to a new country with no English, no job secured and 3 grand between the two of them. The Czech Republic must be in a dire state to make someone do something that reckless. To be fair they've been proved correct as paddy taxpayer has come to their rescue.

FTA69

The Czech couple sound hard-working and resilient and I'm sure they'll be great assets to Ireland. Fair play to them for overcoming a really difficult period and finding their feet and opportunity.

enricoh

A computer programmer and a hotel worker can't get a job in Dublin? Are they serious?
Dublin is booming at the minute and they can't support themselves.
When the next recession comes round will they be off to oz and Canada to look for work? I somehow doubt it

mariaalice

suicide_circus wrote: »

They don't sound very bright. Upping sticks to a new country with no English, no job secured and 3 grand between the two of them. The Czech Republic must be in a dire state to make someone do something that reckless. To be fair they've been proved correct as paddy taxpayer has come to their rescue.

There were hundreds of stories in the media in the 1980s of Irish people going to the UK ( mostly London ) with out a penny sometimes just enough for the boat and bus fare to London often ended up living in squats or buying rent books ( a sort of scam ) now most of them worked and sorted themselves out eventually but welfare was also much easier to get in London, even university student could get welfare in the summer holiday. Its all changed now but people have short memories.

Kivaro

This is why Ireland's "homeless" numbers will continue to grow indefinitely, which of course suits the vested NGOs and the left.
Ireland will have to throw billions of Euros at the "homeless crisis" every few years building forever homes for those who arrive from both within and outside the EU.

If I was living in a shack overseas and read online how Ireland puts up the "homeless" in places like The Gresham, then I would be on the next boat over here. The incentives are too great for them not to try it.

And there's no end in sight ........... until the workers have been taxed to death to pay for the free homes and the money runs out. Then the fun begins.

mariaalice

Kivaro wrote: »

This is why Ireland's "homeless" numbers will continue to grow indefinitely, which of course suits the vested NGOs and the left.
Ireland will have to throw billions of Euros at the "homeless crisis" every few years building forever homes for those who arrive from both within and outside the EU.

If I was living in a shack overseas and read online how Ireland puts up the "homeless" in places like The Gresham, then I would be on the next boat over here. The incentives are too great for them not to try it.

And there's no end in sight ........... until the workers have been taxed to death to pay for the free homes and the money runs out. Then the fun begins.

Your post count have been lifted form the UK Mirror of the 1980s except it would be about the Irish in London.

Kivaro

enricoh wrote: »

A computer programmer and a hotel worker can't get a job in Dublin? Are they serious?

That's the story we're being told and we HAVE to accept it.
To question it would make us xenophobic/racist/bigoted.

mariaalice

Andrew Kelly outside The Irish Centre in Kilburn says that the report has found that three quarters of those coming to London are homeless and come with less than £100 and they end up on the streets, in squats or hostels.


http://www.rte.ie/archives/exhibitions/1030-emigration-once-again/319381-irish-emigrants-in-london/

Its a fascinating to read the country has changed so much for the better.

Sofiztikated

Homeless crisis ☑
Foreigners ☑
Dole bashing ☑

Anyone got Travellers and Abortion for a full house?

mariaalice

Another quote from the RTE piece

"And so the English welfare system solves problems for the Irish government but how long can it last and how long will the English man on the street put up with it?"

mariaalice

Kivaro wrote: »

That's the story we're being told and we HAVE to accept it.
To question it would make us xenophobic/racist/bigoted.

I worked first in hotels,”

He helped write a programme for one of the shop’s customers and was later contacted by Space X, a company designing rockets and spacecraft, with its central projects office in San Antonio, Texas. Its European personnel office is in Cork. “They said the project I did was amazing.”

Tomas is now interning with Space X,

Have you read the article?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/former-homeless-apollo-house-residents-secure-home-1.3355298

Your Face

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Homeless crisis ☑
Foreigners ☑
Dole bashing ☑

Anyone got Travellers and Abortion for a full house?

Thats what I call a Czech-list.

markodaly

baylah17 wrote: »

They would get whatever Czech citizens are entitled to.
Thems the rules.
Again fair play to this couple.

The thing is, it looks like they did not follow the rules.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/rights_of_residence_in_ireland/residence_rights_eu_national.html

Mutant z

Why the hell are people coming here if they cant support themselves and get a free house in the process its ridiculous it really is.

mariaalice

Mutant z wrote: »

Why the hell are people coming here if they cant support themselves and get a free house in the process its ridiculous it really is.

Why did Irish people got England in the 1980s with no money and no way of supporting themselves except the British welfare system

markodaly

enricoh wrote: »

A computer programmer and a hotel worker can't get a job in Dublin? Are they serious?

Yes, instantly this makes me sit up and take notice that there is more to this story.

These are two very in demand jobs in Dublin right now, especially the programmer. Then again, maybe he calls himself a programmer but actually knows jack ****. Would be nice for the journalist to do some digging to give us some clarity. Then again, that goes against the narrative.

mariaalice

If people were giving out about some socbies who were scamming the system I could have some understanding, but moaning about two working people who had a run of bad luck and are now sorted and working, really!

Sonics2k

markodaly wrote: »

Yes, instantly this makes me sit up and take notice that there is more to this story.

These are two very in demand jobs in Dublin right now, especially the programmer. Then again, maybe he calls himself a programmer but actually knows jack ****. Would be nice for the journalist to do some digging to give us some clarity. Then again, that goes against the narrative.

To be fair, it did mention he had poor English skills when he first moved here. A lot of businesses will decline people based on that pretty quickly.

Skedaddle

Actually, the UK and Ireland are fairly unique in the EU as they don't have any kind of registration system for people moving here. In most EU countries you have to register, usually within 90 days and prove your a job or you're in education, or self-sufficient.

Because neither Ireland nor the UK have ever had the notion of formally registering their own citizens when they move, they don't apply any different rules to EU citizens, so until they appear in the tax or welfare system we have no formal way or recognising they're here at all.

If you move cities in say France or Belgium, you must register with the town hall and make your presence known. That applies whether you're French, Irish, Dutch, Romanian, British, German or any other nationality.

Ireland and the UK are actually rather uniquely probably the absolute model of EU freedom of movement, despite not being in Schengen. The two countries absolutely wholeheartedly embraced the idea that people could move in without fuss or bureaucracy. The same is not true across the 26 other members. You are usually expected to register and provided all sorts of proof of what you're up to.

A lot of the things the Brexiteers complain about were never actually required of them in the first place.

mariaalice

markodaly wrote: »

Yes, instantly this makes me sit up and take notice that there is more to this story.

These are two very in demand jobs in Dublin right now, especially the programmer. Then again, maybe he calls himself a programmer but actually knows jack ****. Would be nice for the journalist to do some digging to give us some clarity. Then again, that goes against the narrative.

is now interning with Space X, which is paying for him to complete a postgraduate degree with the University of Masaryk, in the Czech Republic. He sits the final exams in Trinity College in June.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/former-homeless-apollo-house-residents-secure-home-1.3355298

zell12

mariaalice wrote: »

Why did Irish people got England in the 1980s with no money and no way of supporting themselves except the British welfare system

Because of the Ireland-UK common travel area. Different rules apply
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/rights_of_residence_in_ireland/residence_rules_UK_citizens.html

markodaly

Sonics2k wrote: »

To be fair, it did mention he had poor English skills when he first moved here. A lot of businesses will decline people based on that pretty quickly.

You don't think that if someone was moving to another country on a permanent basis that they wouldn't start learning the language before hand?

Come on. From reading the article, they just come off as idiots. Either they are really stupid to have done it the way they did or there is another story here.

Riskymove

The wife has worked in hotels


BTW they didn't "get a house"

Just before Christmas the couple moved into a small flat comprising one room, off which is a small galley kitchen. A tiny shower room is off the kitchen. It is €1,300 a month and they get the housing assistance payment (HAP).

so to the people who asked earlier - yes you can stop paying your mortgage, have house repossessed, sleep in a tent for year and move into your dream studio flat which you can be evicted from at any time

redcup342

zell12 wrote: »

IrishTimes - Former homeless Apollo House residents secure home


This makes me angry.
People came to Ireland in 2015 with limited english, failed to get steady employment, and instead of returning home, we taxpayers fund them to live within the canals. Meantime, irish people suffering the same fate are overlooked or suffer.
In other EU countries, migrants who cannot self-fund are deported to home country.
How oft is this story repeated?

Jesus man they spent a year sleeping rough, Irish or not their people.

2000 euros is a lot of money in Czech Republic, what were they supposed to do, go back to Czech and live rough rather than stay where they were and try to get their lives sorted.

It's supposed to be a European Union not a European everyone for themselves.

markodaly

mariaalice wrote: »

is now interning with Space X, which is paying for him to complete a postgraduate degree with the University of Masaryk, in the Czech Republic. He sits the final exams in Trinity College in June.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/former-homeless-apollo-house-residents-secure-home-1.3355298

Yes, noticed that. The guy is almost 50, knows '7' computer languages yet cant score a permanent IT gig.

Sounds like he actually knows very little about programming or IT and had little to no experience in it in the real world. Maybe he had a different career before hand, which is fine of course..

He would have been better off finishing his studies first and getting some local
IT experience. Then go off to Dublin with all that in his bag, rather then end up homeless due to sheer stupidity of making naive life choices.

Sofiztikated

markodaly wrote: »

You don't think that if someone was moving to another country on a permanent basis that they wouldn't start learning the language before hand?

Come on. From reading the article, the just come off as idiots. Either they are really stupid to have done it the way they did or there is another story here.

Come off as idiots.
Interning at Space-X.

Talk about ****eing on about the "Agenda"

zell12

Riskymove wrote: »

The wife has worked in hotels
BTW they didn't "get a house"
so to the people who asked earlier - yes you can stop paying your mortgage, have house repossessed, sleep in a tent for year and move into your dream studio flat which you can be evicted from at any time

It's not clear from the article, but I assume it is HAP through a voluntary Council sponsored scheme.