Czechs go to Ireland, be homeless, get housing.

biko

I don't see the big deal.
If you are pro-EU then you are also pro-EU citizens moving here and using our system in the same way we can.

bear1

zell12 wrote: »

We don't know if they are paying taxes, even if the article mentions working "Tomas repairing computers at a city-centre shop, and Lucie in a hotel"
It says rent "is €1,300 a month and they get the HAP" inferring later "One day we will have a home, with no HAP and a good job", makes me think it is almost fully subsidised accommodation.

Why are you acting like you do then?

Sonics2k

weldoninhio wrote: »

Have you ever heard of supply and demand????

Yup, and as I said above, it has nothing to do with the EU

Elemonator

Are you suggesting we leave them out in the cold then, because they are Czech?

sameoldname

AlphabetCards wrote: »

Very good, now tell me, did we need minimum wage laws before or after we opened the country up to limitless labour potential, thus driving down wages?

Show me one link that shows a drop in Irish people's wages since the Eastern European nations joined the EU that wasn't caused by a massive world-wide recession? Hell, show me a drop in wages since the late 1980's!

Skedaddle

Doltanian wrote: »

This is just one of the many reasons why I want Ireland to leave the EU. The sooner we Irexit the better

You do realise that a huge % of our economy is based on the fact that we are a good location *in the EU* to do business from. The Irish market itself is very small and we would be cutting ourselves off from half a billion consumers, increasing our costs on a whole load of things, going back to living with a small, unstable currency.

We'd have no immigration, that's for sure, because much like in the good old days, Ireland would be totally unattractive to move to due to a poor economy ad Irish people would be back on the planes and boats to the US and elsewhere.

Ireland's benefited enormously from EU membership over the past few decades and it would simply be wilful economic self-distruction to leave.

Add to that, I (and probably plenty of other people in Ireland) actually like the idea that I can move anywhere in Europe quite easily without any major bureaucratic or visa hurdles to jump through.

I think it would feel incredibly claustrophobic to lose those freedoms.

Also, give those countries 20 years and they'll have caught up with EU norms in terms of standards of living and job opportunities. That's already the case in many of them. Poland for example, may have a bit of a political nonsense going on at the moment with the far right, but the standards of living there since it joined the EU are incomparable to what they were in the early 2000s.

Things even out and wealth spreads around and migration patterns change.

Also think about it the other way too:

Because Ireland was welcoming to so many Poles, Czechs, Bulgarians, Romanians and so on we actually have extended the Irish network way into Eastern Europe in a way that would have been unthinkable 20+ years ago. I know Poles and Czechs and Slovaks and various other nationalities. I've worked with people form those countries. I've found business opportunities based on those networks.

It's not all one way traffic, and it certainly won't be as those countries become serious economic powerhouses - which is very likely in the years to come.

Sometimes opening the door and making connections is a very positive thing.

mariaalice

Skedaddle wrote: »

You do realise that a huge % of our economy is based on the fact that we are a good location *in the EU* to do business from. The Irish market itself is very small and we would be cutting ourselves off from half a billion consumers, increasing our costs on a whole load of things, going back to living with a small, unstable currency.

We'd have no immigration, that's for sure, because much like in the good old days, Ireland would be totally unattractive to move to due to a poor economy ad Irish people would be back on the planes and boats to the US and elsewhere.

Ireland's benefited enormously from EU membership over the past few decades and it would simply be wilful economic self-distruction to leave.

Add to that, I (and probably plenty of other people in Ireland) actually like the idea that I can move anywhere in Europe quite easily without any major bureaucratic or visa hurdles to jump through.

I think it would feel incredibly claustrophobic to lose those freedoms.

Also, give those countries 20 years and they'll have caught up with EU norms in terms of standards of living and job opportunities. That's already the case in many of them. Poland for example, may have a bit of a political nonsense going on at the moment with the far right, but the standards of living there since it joined the EU are incomparable to what they were in the early 2000s.

Things even out and wealth spreads around and migration patterns change.

(1)Logic does not come in to it, they don't want anyone coming here the end much like some of the Trump supporter they don't care if it too their own detriment they do not want anyone coming heat.

or

(2) They can come here to live as long as they are rich or they can be a tourist for a holiday which further sub divides in to they can only come here to live if they are European and rich.

or

(3) To be fair some really are convinced that leaving the EU and stopping people coming will have some economic befits for themselves its hard to know if that is just disguised xenophobia but they have themselves convinced. It is a variant of wanting simple solutions to complex issues.

or

(4) some are just out and out racists.

Guy:Incognito

baylah17 wrote: »

It is and has been oft repeated by the Irish abroad especially in the UK.
Cop on, they were entitled as EU citizens to come here and to be treated in the same way as an Irish citizen would be treated.

The same?

Myself and the missus (and 2 kids) are on the housing list 6 years this year. But I suppose we have a house , just not together. We are both living with out respective mother's. Kids are with here but the house is bad enough without me squeezing in too.

Both of us work.

weldoninhio

Sonics2k wrote: »

Yup, and as I said above, it has nothing to do with the EU

We've X amount of houses in Ireland and Y amount of people in Ireland, unfortunately we also have one of the most generous welfare states in the EU. Being open for the rest of the EU(Z), and not adhering to the 3 months rule, means that X is less than Y+Z. The more demand for something that is in short supply, the more you can charge.

Its 1st year stuff.

ohnonotgmail

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The same?

Myself and the missus (and 2 kids) are on the housing list 6 years this year. But I suppose we have a house , just not together. We are both living with out respective mother's. Kids are with here but the house is bad enough without me squeezing in too.

Both of us work.

i doubt this couple even got as far as a housing list. they were not given a house. they are renting a small flat on the hap scheme.

Skedaddle

We actually don't have one of the most generous welfare states in the EU. That's one of those things that gets trotted out regularly that just does not stack up in reality.

You also cannot claim welfare here without having worked. They won't even issue you with a PPS number without a job or a reason to have one. It's very much stricter than many people seem to imagine.

Most EU countries, certainly the more wealthy Northern European ones that would be comparable to Ireland economically, have vastly more generous welfare systems backed by much higher social security contributions. Ireland, very much follows the British model. It's not as extreme as the current Tory implementation of that model, but it's very much in the same approach.

If you take what Ireland offers in terms of welfare: flat payments if you lose your job, based on no relationship to your previous income vs say France, which has a maximum of 3 years worth of payments capped at €6,100 a month based on a % of your previous income.

Ireland has an underfunded and grossly dysfunctional public housing system with massive queues and a growing homelessness problem. It's not at all generous here and hasn't even provided basic needs for citizens who find themselves in that position for decades, relying on rent supplement / allowance to fill in the gaps.

Most of Northern Europe doesn't have these problems as they've good planning, regulated housing costs and so on where there are problems. Ireland has none of these things or very few of them anyway.

It's got a healthcare system that is pretty poor on the public side compared to most of Europe. If you're on the public system, you're looking at long waits for access to treatment, even if that treatment is quite high tech. It's often far more difficult to get access to care than it would be in almost any comparable EU country and you would end up needing to take out private insurance to get speedy access.

What Ireland does generally offer is a buoyant employment market (other than during the recession) and lots of opportunities in that regard due to flexibility. A lot of French people for example come to Ireland to get their first job, because it's very hard to get a foot in the door in France without experience and it's relatively easy in Ireland or the UK. They typically then go home and get a proper job in France, that has long terms stability and benefits like proper pension and health provision.

The UK is similar - they're both countries with a notion that the labour force must be 'flexible' which usually means has minimal protections and is very much about being able to hire and fire very easily and offer no job security.

zell12

Skedaddle wrote: »

We actually don't have one of the most generous welfare states in the EU. That's one of those things that gets trotted out regularly that just does not stack up in reality.
You also cannot claim welfare here without having worked. They won't even issue you with a PPS number without a job or a reason to have one. It's very much stricter than many people seem to imagine.
Most EU countries, certainly the more wealthy Northern European ones that would be comparable to Ireland economically, have vastly more generous welfare systems backed by much higher social security contributions. Ireland, very much follows the British model. It's not as extreme as the current Tory implementation of that model, but it's very much in the same approach.

Actually we do. In other countries your welfare gets reduced over time. Here it goes on at the same level indefinitely.

Skedaddle

Social welfare in US$/capita/year (% GDP is meaningless for Ireland)

US$ PPP
Norway: 14,541
Denmark: 13,259
Austria: 13,070
France: 12,356
Sweden: 12,342
Germany: 11,140
Netherlands: 10,974
USA: 9,838
Ireland: 9,621
Spain: 8,635
UK: 8,619
Australia: 8,479
NZ: 7,121

The US figure would slightly surprise a lot of people, but it just shows how badly they distribute it as the payments are largely state based. Some are quite socially aware, some aren't.

Ireland's spending on social welfare services is fairly low compared to most of the wealthier EU countries and a little higher than most Anglosphere countries, other than the USA

On a GDP per capita basis it's only 16.1% vs 21.5% in the UK, but I would argue that our GDP figures are a bit of a distortion anyway.
It's as high as 31.5% of GDP in France and over 27% in a lot of EU countries.

Ireland's certainly not 'mean' with welfare spending, but it's far from the socialist models of a lot of our near neighbours (other than the UK).

goose2005

mariaalice wrote: »

Your post count have been lifted form the UK Mirror of the 1980s except it would be about the Irish in London.

and they were right. Many areas of London which were formerly full of English people are now Irish.

ohnonotgmail

goose2005 wrote: »

and they were right. Many areas of London which were formerly full of English people are now Irish.

well the children of those irish people. who are english because they were born there.

KindOfIrish

zell12 wrote: »

IrishTimes - Former homeless Apollo House residents secure home


This makes me angry.
People came to Ireland in 2015 with limited english, failed to get steady employment, and instead of returning home, we taxpayers fund them to live within the canals. Meantime, irish people suffering the same fate are overlooked or suffer.
In other EU countries, migrants who cannot self-fund are deported to home country.
How oft is this story repeated?

Calm down. Ireland joined EU in 1973 and 45 years on we are still net EU funds recipients. EU, directly or indirectly, has been supporting generations of Irish people. It would be nice to show little bit of gratefulness.

zell12

KindOfIrish wrote: »

Calm down. Ireland joined EU in 1973 and 45 years on we are still net EU funds recipients. EU, directly or indirectly, has been supporting generations of Irish people. It would be nice to show little bit of gratefulness.

We're net contributors since 2016.

NollagShona

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The same?

Myself and the missus (and 2 kids) are on the housing list 6 years this year. But I suppose we have a house , just not together. We are both living with out respective mother's. Kids are with here but the house is bad enough without me squeezing in too.

Both of us work.

Is this by accident or design? Would you qualify for assisted rent payments?

NollagShona

zell12 wrote: »

We're net contributors since 2016.

Only on 2014, overall we are still net beneficiaries

Chrongen

zell12 wrote: »

IrishTimes - Former homeless Apollo House residents secure home


This makes me angry.
People came to Ireland in 2015 with limited english, failed to get steady employment, and instead of returning home, we taxpayers fund them to live within the canals. Meantime, irish people suffering the same fate are overlooked or suffer.
In other EU countries, migrants who cannot self-fund are deported to home country.
How oft is this story repeated?

You're well within your rights to go to another EU country like the Czech Republic and have Czech taxpayers fund your welfare.

Chrongen

zell12 wrote: »

IrishTimes - Former homeless Apollo House residents secure home


This makes me angry.
People came to Ireland in 2015 with limited english, failed to get steady employment, and instead of returning home, we taxpayers fund them to live within the canals. Meantime, irish people suffering the same fate are overlooked or suffer.
In other EU countries, migrants who cannot self-fund are deported to home country.
How oft is this story repeated?

They are not. You haven't thought this through very well, have you?

lmimmfn

NollagShona wrote: »

Only on 2014, overall we are still net beneficiaries

A few more years of our multinational money laundering tax policies should sort that one right out.

Chrongen

Gatling wrote: »

Prime example of how broken the system is .

The idea the people can travel country to be essentially homeless , should be returned to their home countries where they have families and support and not sit on the streets with no English or chances of employment ,

Eh, it's EU law. It's called free movement. You can up sticks and move to Amsterdam if you want, not learn a lick of Dutch and once you're in the system you can avail of government assistance programs.
Is their system broken too?

Or are you effectively saying that the whole EU is "broken/"?

Chrongen

BillyBobBS wrote: »

What's a mortage?

did you rub your hands with glee after catching that little typo?

"yay, me" ?

Chrongen

markodaly wrote: »

Yes, instantly this makes me sit up and take notice that there is more to this story.

These are two very in demand jobs in Dublin right now, especially the programmer. Then again, maybe he calls himself a programmer but actually knows jack ****. Would be nice for the journalist to do some digging to give us some clarity. Then again, that goes against the narrative.

Computer programmers aren't automatically gold-dust. It depends on the language they code in and the demand for that language.

Plus a lot of recruiters haven't a clue about the skillsets they are trying to peddle to companies. They are just in it for commission.

YFlyer

zell12 wrote: »

UK-IE is a common travel area, seperate to the EU.

Part of the EU.

Kivaro

Chrongen wrote: »

Computer programmers aren't automatically gold-dust. It depends on the language they code in and the demand for that language.

Plus a lot of recruiters haven't a clue about the skillsets they are trying to peddle to companies. They are just in it for commission.

Got it.
It's all the recruiters fault for their "homelessness".
Grand.

One of these days, the concept of "personal responsibility" will eventually come into play in these situations.