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Abandoned Property

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  • 15-01-2018 9:34pm
    #1
    Gilton19
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭


    Hi, Please move post to more appropriate location if needed. Any advice regarding a property in the south east that has been abandoned as such. Original owner has moved abroad and has left the house as is. House has been empty for a couple of years now and the condition is deteriorating fairly quickly. I know the bank the mortgage is with and they dont seem to want to know. I can't understand why the house would be left by banks to deteriorate further when there is a potential buyer interested?. Thanks for any help


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    #2
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Because it's owned. The mortgage is merely a security on the property. There would be a huge expense repossessing the property and it may simply not be worth it. Move in and do it up if you're concerned, just don't spend anymore than the going rent for the time you're there. Adverse possession is there to maintain the value of land.


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    #3
    Gilton19
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭Gilton19


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    Because it's owned. The mortgage is merely a security on the property. There would be a huge expense repossessing the property and it may simply not be worth it. Move in and do it up if you're concerned, just don't spend anymore than the going rent for the time you're there. Adverse possession is there to maintain the value of land.

    Thanks for the reply. Morally I can't just move into the property without at least paying rent for it. The bank don't want to deal at all and the original owner does not have anymore dealings with the bank. It's such a shame. Even if purchasing was not an option now I would happily rent until there is some movement on it. That's better for all parties as the house is not lying unheated and decreasing in value with time. Is there any other option I could take with it?


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    #4
    LirW
    Registered Users Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭LirW


    Just to clarify: There is a house that is lying idle for a while and it is obviously unoccupied for a number of years. The original owner abandoned the house and went abroad and cut all ties to the bank? The bank is now not interested in shifting it and that's the bother of yours?

    That's a tough one. Is there any chances to get in touch with the previous owner? If they didn't pay their mortgage I doubt they have any say in the property. But maybe there are legalities involved that are a lot more difficult than that. For example the property is built on family land, a couple divorced or there are other legal issues with it and this makes it basically impossible for the bank to sell it. In a case like that it's likely that over the next couple of years it might go into receivership.

    I pass a house in the north of Wexford every day that is lying idle. Huge, beautiful house built in the boom. I'd like to know the story why this was abandoned until I had a look on the land registry and saw that this was built on the land of a large farm, most likely of the owners family.

    I assume you had a look on the land registry already who's the rightful owner of the property+land. If not, that's the point to start.


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    #5
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Gilton19 wrote: »
    Is there any other option I could take with it?

    Can you contact the property owner and offer to buy it?

    Even if they've walked away from the property, an offer above the outstanding mortgage may spark their interest. That's assuming the property hasn't already been repossessed.


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    #6
    Gilton19
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭Gilton19


    LirW wrote: »
    Just to clarify: There is a house that is lying idle for a while and it is obviously unoccupied for a number of years. The original owner abandoned the house and went abroad and cut all ties to the bank? The bank is now not interested in shifting it and that's the bother of yours?

    That's a tough one. Is there any chances to get in touch with the previous owner? If they didn't pay their mortgage I doubt they have any say in the property. But maybe there are legalities involved that are a lot more difficult than that. For example the property is built on family land, a couple divorced or there are other legal issues with it and this makes it basically impossible for the bank to sell it. In a case like that it's likely that over the next couple of years it might go into receivership.

    I pass a house in the north of Wexford every day that is lying idle. Huge, beautiful house built in the boom. I'd like to know the story why this was abandoned until I had a look on the land registry and saw that this was built on the land of a large farm, most likely of the owners family.

    I assume you had a look on the land registry already who's the rightful owner of the property+land. If not, that's the point to start.

    Thanks it was built on family land as far as I know as I was in the land registry about it. The listed owners are the original ones.


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    #7
    Gilton19
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭Gilton19


    Graham wrote: »
    Can you contact the property owner and offer to buy it?

    Even if they've walked away from the property, an offer above the outstanding mortgage may spark their interest. That's assuming the property hasn't already been repossessed.

    Hi, we have been in contact and he cant seem to help. I'm unsure of what the outstanding mortgage is but that's an option we considered but as the owner has had no dealings with the bank for years they are hesitant it seems.


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    #8
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,301 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    They are hesitant, because even if you get the house, as it's on land things will get messy.


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    #9
    Gilton19
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭Gilton19


    the_syco wrote: »
    They are hesitant, because even if you get the house, as it's on land things will get messy.

    The original owner is elderly and afaik has no more living relatives but this could be the reason. It's just really such a shame !


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    #10
    LirW
    Registered Users Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭LirW


    Did you ever talk about it with your solicitor? Maybe they can help you and the approach of a legal professional changes their mind.


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    #11
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,301 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Gilton19 wrote: »
    The original owner is elderly and afaik has no more living relatives but this could be the reason. It's just really such a shame !
    Without knowing the will, the banks won't want to touch it. Also, if the person is elderly, there's a chance that they have used some sort of "fair deal" issue.


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    #12
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,950 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Gilton19 wrote: »
    Morally I can't just move into the property without at least paying rent for it.

    Yes you can.

    There is adverse possession law in this country specifically to address situations like this.

    If you're concerned, stick the rent amount into a specific bank account, and keep it in case someone someday asks for the rent.

    Another option is to ask around locally to see if there's somebody (eg a priest, lawyer, neighbour etc) who might be able to talk to the owner and get them to change their mind.


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    #13
    Gilton19
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭Gilton19


    LirW wrote: »
    Did you ever talk about it with your solicitor? Maybe they can help you and the approach of a legal professional changes their mind.

    This is the only thing we haven't done. Will be the next thing to look into


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    #14
    Gilton19
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭Gilton19


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Yes you can.

    There is adverse possession law in this country specifically to address situations like this.

    If you're concerned, stick the rent amount into a specific bank account, and keep it in case someone someday asks for the rent.

    Another option is to ask around locally to see if there's somebody (eg a priest, lawyer, neighbour etc) who might be able to talk to the owner and get them to change their mind.

    I have spoken to neighbours no one seems to know anything about it. I live locally also. I'm trying to see if there is better options to take as I couldn't just go into the property.


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    #15
    Gilton19
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭Gilton19


    the_syco wrote: »
    Without knowing the will, the banks won't want to touch it. Also, if the person is elderly, there's a chance that they have used some sort of "fair deal" issue.

    This could be the case. I just can't seem to get any definite info on it.


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    #16
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,349 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Gilton19 wrote: »
    I have spoken to neighbours no one seems to know anything about it. I live locally also. I'm trying to see if there is better options to take as I couldn't just go into the property.

    Why not?


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    #17
    hawkelady
    Registered Users Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭hawkelady


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Why not?



    Eh, because it's not his !!! Perhaps


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    #18
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,349 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    hawkelady wrote: »
    Eh, because it's not his !!! Perhaps

    So what! As noted above to the OP, adverse possession laws exist for this exact situation. If:

    - the OP has genuinely exhausted all attempts (including discussion with a solicitor) to contact the owner of the property and agree a sale
    - the property is in or close to a condition in which it can be inhabited
    - the OP can move in at minimal expense and keep aside rent for the property during period of occupation
    - the OP understands the risks inherent in such an approach and the possibility of being moved on at minimal notice

    AND you really really want it. It's absolutely an option.

    http://www.prai.ie/adverse-possession-title-by-adverse-possession-to-registered-land/

    Simpler summary: http://www.irishexaminer.com/farming/news/what-are-squatters-rights-exactly-308255.html

    Obviously, speak to a solicitor as stated but don't discount all the available options if you really want something.


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    #19
    C3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 3,760 ✭✭✭C3PO


    I can understand the OPs reticence to just move into an empty house in the locality - It wouldn't sit well with me either! There would also be practical issues around connection of water, sewage, power etc. And how would it be perceived by his neighbours?


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    #20
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    C3PO wrote: »
    I can understand the OPs reticence to just move into an empty house in the locality - It wouldn't sit well with me either! There would also be practical issues around connection of water, sewage, power etc. And how would it be perceived by his neighbours?

    If the OP is a decent sort and keeps the place tidy I'd rather have him as a neighbour than an abandoned property. It's no-ones business how he's in the property including ESB, sewage - probably already connected, heating oil deliveries or neighbours etc. Not meaning to sounds harsh there it just isn't.


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    #21
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,349 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    C3PO wrote: »
    I can understand the OPs reticence to just move into an empty house in the locality - It wouldn't sit well with me either! There would also be practical issues around connection of water, sewage, power etc. And how would it be perceived by his neighbours?

    Well yes, you need to actively ascertain whether services are connected and any possible expenses to make the place liveable. But if it can be inhabited with minimal work, rock in and start living there. Properly occupying, including paying for services and declaring it as an address, is a constituent part of any future adverse possession claim. If anyone asks, just say you're living there, end of.

    Remember that - if he's exhausted all efforts to contact the owner - he wants to force the owners to take an interest. You can potentially negotiate rental or purchase with them if they come calling. And you never know, you might be left there a few years and end up moving towards adverse possession. Stranger things have happened.


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    #22
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,349 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Some worthwhile reading:

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/state-fails-in-bid-to-evict-squatter-1.698608%3fmode=amp

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/the-onus-of-proof-lies-on-the-plaintiff-to-establish-adverse-possession-with-the-requisite-intent-1.974835%3fmode=amp

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/man-not-entited-to-squatters-rights-1.2006109%3fmode=amp

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/way-cleared-for-sale-of-lands-claimed-under-squatter-s-rights-1.2879686%3fmode=amp


    The OP doesn’t state his current situation but there’s little to be lost by moving in if the place is habitable and in a place that suits the rest of your life. Actually move in though and treat it like your own residence. Pay for services, make basic minimum maintenance and query trespassers. Worse case is someone comes to claim it in the short to medium term and doesn’t wish to do a deal. In that case you’ve had a period of rent free living and boosted your savings. Best case, well...the man in the first case acquired a fine house in Enniskerry as his own for nothing.

    Check it all with a Solicitor of course. But if the place is genuinely unoccupied and habitable and you want it and it suits you to take a punt morals don’t come into it. You will be maintaining the value of it for the owners.


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    #23
    Gilton19
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭Gilton19


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Some worthwhile reading:

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/state-fails-in-bid-to-evict-squatter-1.698608%3fmode=amp

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/the-onus-of-proof-lies-on-the-plaintiff-to-establish-adverse-possession-with-the-requisite-intent-1.974835%3fmode=amp

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/man-not-entited-to-squatters-rights-1.2006109%3fmode=amp

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/way-cleared-for-sale-of-lands-claimed-under-squatter-s-rights-1.2879686%3fmode=amp


    The OP doesn’t state his current situation but there’s little to be lost by moving in if the place is habitable and in a place that suits the rest of your life. Actually move in though and treat it like your own residence. Pay for services, make basic minimum maintenance and query trespassers. Worse case is someone comes to claim it in the short to medium term and doesn’t wish to do a deal. In that case you’ve had a period of rent free living and boosted your savings. Best case, well...the man in the first case acquired a fine house in Enniskerry as his own for nothing.

    Check it all with a Solicitor of course. But if the place is genuinely unoccupied and habitable and you want it and it suits you to take a punt morals don’t come into it. You will be maintaining the value of it for the owners.

    Thanks for all the above. The house is definitely habitable. Just reconnection to services and some work. I'm dealing with a solicitor at the minute regarding the property to see if they can get any further.


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