Dolores O' Riordan

Silentcorner

zulutango wrote: »

Would you put the Cranberries in the same league as The Pogues? The Cranberries had some great tunes for sure but I don't think they'd have the musical or lyrical depth that The Pogues had. I would say their incredible international popularity and success is very much down to O'Riordan's voice and style and character. That said, I do think they weren't given nearly enough recognition in Ireland given their huge success and I'd say being from Limerick didn't especially help them.

Such an unfortunate thing to have to say but true nonetheless...

While The Cranberries were never "hip or cool" as such, a bit like Limerick really...their reach went across the world, it is fair to say that Zombie is probably the most recognised Irish (or British for that matter) song of all time...something most bands that we like to believe are "hip or cool" don't succeed in doing...

What I loved about Delores was that accent, she never lost it...she was ridiculed for it by sections of the Irish press, but was always proud of it and where she was from...

Tombo2001

zulutango wrote: »

Would you put the Cranberries in the same league as The Pogues? The Cranberries had some great tunes for sure but I don't think they'd have the musical or lyrical depth that The Pogues had. I would say their incredible international popularity and success is very much down to O'Riordan's voice and style and character. That said, I do think they weren't given nearly enough recognition in Ireland given their huge success and I'd say being from Limerick didn't especially help them.

I would say that her voice was far superior to Shane McGowans; I would say that the Cranberries wrote a number of songs that are absolutely top class songs. She is a different type of artist to Shane McGowan clearly, and I wouldnt personally put one above the other. Would you?

I would say that as an artist she is someone who produced songs that are challenging and pushed people out of their comfort zone. Zombie being an obvious. But even more so, Ode to my Family - you dont see Irish people being so open about how they are, and how they relate to the families they come from.

I think her mental health challenges turned people here away, because basically people here still dont know how to deal with that.

You mention the accent 'and because she is from Limerick' - I think you are right, in the sense that people might say her accent got in their nerves. But they would say the same thing about Damien Dempsey, who I'd see as a very similar sort of artist though on a different scale.

Clearly, her Limerick accent didnt hold her back anywhere else except Ireland.

On the other hand - Christy Moore sings in his Kildare accent, and everyone loves it because he is affable and not particularly challenging. Joxer Goes to Stuttgart.

zulutango

All fair points.

MrJones1973

I read a long piece by barry Egan in Sunday indo. She endured a lot of sexual abuse at a very young age. For some reason she never pursued a prosecution . She achieved a huge amount despite all of that .
May she rest in peace now .

seachto7

Is there any proof that she/the band were held back in Ireland because they were from limerick or because of her accent?
They’re the most successful band after U2 to come out of Ireland.

Vladimir Poontang

They didn't need recognition or mass popularity in Ireland. They sold 40 million albums and sold out concerts all over the world.

They are a hugely successful international act and one of the few Irish acts to be massive in America.

They were taken for granted here and somewhat dismissed for whatever reason. Not that I'd say they gave two ****s about to be honest.

brianregan09

Because there a rock band and people would rather there cookie cutter ****e like Bressie or Koronas or even recently U2 has gone that way

And why would you bring up Sexual abuse in a thread mourning her .........some people I swear

zulutango

seachto7 wrote: »

Is there any proof that she/the band were held back in Ireland because they were from limerick or because of her accent?
They’re the most successful band after U2 to come out of Ireland.

It's generally accepted that they didn't get recognition (radio play, interviews, tv appearances, etc) until they started to do well in the US when their first album soared in the charts over there. If I recall correctly they made the claim themselves in an early interview. And in Limerick that's put down to the fact that they are from Limerick. It may not be that, and I'm not sure what proof there could be for such a claim, but if that's not the reason, then what is? The alternative view is that they weren't highly rated by the Irish music press and that's why they were ignored.

seachto7

zulutango wrote: »

It's generally accepted that they didn't get recognition (radio play, interviews, tv appearances, etc) until they started to do well in the US when their first album soared in the charts over there. If I recall correctly they made the claim themselves in an early interview. And in Limerick that's put down to the fact that they are from Limerick. It may not be that, and I'm not sure what proof there could be for such a claim, but if that's not the reason, then what is? The alternative view is that they weren't highly rated by the Irish music press and that's why they were ignored.

Maybe, but I don't buy the fact there was some conspiracy against them in Ireland just because they weren't from Dublin. Ireland in general wasn't too good to them, not that I'd say they cared either way.
That's not unique to the Cranberries though. There are other examples.

zulutango

I don't think anyone is suggesting it was a conspiracy, but more to do with a general prejudice against the city that they weren't taken too seriously. I don't agree or disagree with it, as there's many factors and I don't think we can say with absolute certainty what the dominant ones were. There was certainly prejudice within the city, for what it's worth, because some of them were from Moyross. I remember that being a talking point and people I knew dismissed them for that reason. I also think part of their initial lack of recognition was simply down to not being noticed because they weren't playing in the venues of Dublin. Another factor could be that singing in a strong Irish accent didn't appeal to Irish audiences whereas it did appeal to international audiences, particularly in the US (they didn't have any success in the UK or Ireland prior to that).

Comhrá

It seems to be part of the Irish psyche that sometimes we can't be sure one if our own is really good enough to merit super-star status until the UK or the USA or the world at large endorses them first. Then if they're accorded the success their talent merits (as was the case with the Cranberries) then we at home are happy to acknowledge their greatness.

Just part of our Irishness - lack of self-belief and over-concern with how the world at large perceives us.

seachto7

zulutango wrote: »

I don't think anyone is suggesting it was a conspiracy, but more to do with a general prejudice against the city that they weren't taken too seriously. I'm don't agree or disagree with it, as there's many factors and I don't think we can say with absolute certainty what the dominant ones were. There was certainly prejudice within the city, for what it's worth, because some of them were from Moyross. I remember that being a talking point and people I knew dismissed them for that reason. I also think part of their initial lack of recognition was simply down to not being noticed because they weren't playing in the venues of Dublin. Another factor could be that singing in a strong Irish accent didn't appeal to Irish audiences whereas it did appeal to international audiences, particularly in the US (they didn't have any success in the UK or Ireland prior to that).

On another note, when will we see a band come out of Moyross again!

Mc Love

Bit of coverage in the UK, LBC Radio have announced the funeral on their news bulletins, including some of the ceremony.

zulutango

seachto7 wrote: »

On another note, when will we see a band come out of Moyross again!

Who knows! It would be great if we did.

seachto7

zulutango wrote: »

Who knows! It would be great if we did.

I can't think of many bands who are coming from working class estates these days... guitar bands I mean, not rap.

MrJones1973

I really don't think it should matter where a band are from. I wasn't into them at the time simply because it wasn't my type of music. There seems to be a feeling you have to be working class to play rock but i think thats nonsense.
Its usually peddled by middle class hacks who like their rock stars rough.
Amazing how bruce Springsteen trades on the working class motiff but has been a multi millionaire since 1975
The cranberries have been millionaires about 20 odd years and are no more working class today than Shane ross

Big Nasty

When I first heard The Cranberries I thought they were from the north! Didn't realise (or care) that they were from Limerick until a couple years later.

seachto7

MrJones1973 wrote: »

I really don't think it should matter where a band are from. I wasn't into them at the time simply because it wasn't my type of music. There seems to be a feeling you have to be working class to play rock but i think thats nonsense.
Its usually peddled by middle class hacks who like their rock stars rough.
Amazing how bruce Springsteen trades on the working class motiff but has been a multi millionaire since 1975
The cranberries have been millionaires about 20 odd years and are no more working class today than Shane ross

That's not what I'm saying or said. Most bands anyway these days are middle class. So, should Bruce have changed who he was just because of his bank balance? The Cranberries didn't.

panda100

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I think her mental health challenges turned people here away, because basically people here still dont know how to deal with that.

There was a really excellent letter in The Limerick Leader today and it made me think of this comment. Thought I would post it up here so everyone could have a read of it and try and be a bit more compassionate and understanding to those living with bipolar

Tombo2001

Thanks for that.

I read the Miriam Lord piece from the Irish Times. Two lines in particular stood out for me:

"The local community closed protectively around the family. Lads from the Ballybricken/Bohermore GAA club provided stewarding along the roads. Local houses opened their driveways so people could park. Farmers opened fields in case there was an overflow."

and

"There was a whirring sound in the distance, like agricultural machinery in one of the fields. But it wasn’t. It was a drone, photographing the scene."

Two extremes of Irish society.

Vladimir Poontang

I await with dread the inevitable plan by the gob****es in City Hall to honour her....

Silentcorner

Vladimir Poontang wrote: »

I await with dread the inevitable plan by the gob****es in City Hall to honour her....

We should keep away from statues...it won't end well...

It is right to honour her and the band, their figures are impressive...No Need to Argue sold 17 million copies alone...I didn't know that...

Whatever they decide I just hope it is tasteful, perhaps a mural...the three remaining members are very low key type's so you'd have to bear that in mind...

seachto7

Would they honour them if she had not died?

Silentcorner

seachto7 wrote: »

Would they honour them if she had not died?

Probably not, but that doesn't make it right..is it right not to honour them?

I mean, Paul O'Connell is a freeman of the city, as was Terry Wogan and well deserved, but his success is not in the same league as what that band have achieved...

Poxyshamrock

No sooner does the focus of the thread turn to honouring Dolores and boom...look what appears in the LL.

IMO, I think it's a bit of a rushed thought. I an't determine whether they want to name the project or the actual development after Dolores/the band. Project Dolores sounds like some sort of galactic space mission from the 1970s.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/293743/calls-to-rename-limerick-s-opera-site-in-honour-of-two-diverse-talents.html

riverrocked

riverrocked wrote: »

That is an insensitive question and it doesn't have any impact on the tragedy of that death of someone at only 46.

I am sure the family will release a statement when they are good and ready, then everyone who wants their morbid curiosity filled can find out.

I don’t think it’ll be up to her family. Many feared the worst of her air rage incident, yet there was no trace of either alcohol or drugs in her system.

A great talent gone too soon. R.I.P.

Silentcorner

Poxyshamrock wrote: »

No sooner does the focus of the thread turn to honouring Dolores and boom...look what appears in the LL.

IMO, I think it's a bit of a rushed thought. I an't determine whether they want to name the project or the actual development after Dolores/the band. Project Dolores sounds like some sort of galactic space mission from the 1970s.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/293743/calls-to-rename-limerick-s-opera-site-in-honour-of-two-diverse-talents.html

Jesus...

We should all agree, firstly no statues.
Then no "Opera Centre" shenanigans...that was a disaster of an honour for a start...

Tasteful...is that beyond us?

mart 23

They could name the plazza within the Opera Centre after her

panda100

Well she's not a rugby player and not a man so I doubt city hall will be jumping over themselves to commemorate her in any real way.

panda100

mart 23 wrote:

They could name the plazza within the Opera Centre after her

Great idea. That would be very fitting