6N Tournament 2018 (non-Irish TT)

jr86

Yeah to be fair I'd give Jones the benefit. They've been a mile the most consistent NH team since he took over. They could well still finish the campaign with 2 wins, which would likely mean in 3 attempts they've won a slam, a championship and then at worst lost on PD/BP - not bad going

I seem to recall Hughes playing a blinder vs Scotland last year to be fair

Vunipola's loss just can't be understated enough overall though

Synode

Mariah Creamy Succotash wrote: »

Jones has this notion of who is a test match player and who isn't. He thinks Hughes is and Simmonds is less so/not really at all

Where are you getting this from at all? Simmonds started against Italy and Wales but got injured.

Synode

Synode wrote: »

Where are you getting this from at all? Simmonds started against Italy and Wales but got injured.

Because Hughes was unavailable as well.

Synode

Mariah Creamy Succotash wrote: »

Because Hughes was unavailable as well.

Where are you getting that Jones thinks Simmonds isn't really a test player when he's played multiple tests for England in the last 6 months

Synode

Synode wrote: »

Where are you getting that Jones thinks Simmonds isn't really a test player when he's played multiple tests for England in the last 6 months

Just based on selections. He often doesn't seem that bothered by how guys are playing for their club (see Don Armand for example), and Simmonds seems to be behind Hughes who isn't all that good. Maybe he has made himself a fixture in the squad from now on but if Billy V and Hughes were both available I'd be surprised.

Bridge93

Elliot Daly back in the England training squad for France

MJohnston

Any word on the suspended French players returning for England?

razorblunt

Mariah Creamy Succotash wrote: »

Just based on selections. He often doesn't seem that bothered by how guys are playing for their club (see Don Armand for example), and Simmonds seems to be behind Hughes who isn't all that good. Maybe he has made himself a fixture in the squad from now on but if Billy V and Hughes were both available I'd be surprised.

It might just be the fact that Jones also recognises that AP form doesn't translate to International form, if anything its drifted further away.
I think Armand falls into this category.
As Harris has done for Scotland already this season.

MJohnston

MJohnston wrote: »

Any word on the suspended French players returning for England?

I'd be 95% confident they'll all be back.

Bridge93

http://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12508/11269184/teddy-thomas-left-out-of-france-squad-for-england-six-nations-game

None were brought back in

prawnsambo

Bridge93 wrote: »

http://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12508/11269184/teddy-thomas-left-out-of-france-squad-for-england-six-nations-game

None were brought back in

Bizarre.

c.p.w.g.w

prawnsambo wrote: »

Bizarre.

Is it tho, you step out of line, show lack of respect you get dropped. Maybe Brunel is trying to restore discipline and order to the French camp.

prawnsambo

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Is it tho, you step out of line, show lack of respect you get dropped. Maybe Brunel is trying to restore discipline and order to the French camp.

There are always two sides to every story. And Eddie Jones would probably be more sympathetic. But I'm just guessing obvs.

A three match ban effectively and possibly more because of a bit of a dust up with some Scottish 'fans' seems a bit excessive.

Jesus that's a pain in the face. Advantage England to be honest, might even snag the BP.

Buer

To bring them back in now would undermine whatever fragile team camaraderie that has been built up over the last couple of weeks. It's not like they were actually winning games with those guys in place (and they made several other changes aside from them too). Thomas was the only one that was really stepping up and France have options out wide to replace him.

jr86

Lets not kid ourselves was there ever actually a hope England would lose this even if France had everyone available?

Come on, it's the world number 2 against the world number 10.

Buer

jr86 wrote: »

Lets not kid ourselves was there ever actually a hope England would lose this even if France had everyone available?

Come on, it's the world number 2 against the world number 10.

It's not necessarily about France winning but this tournament is very likely to come down to a single point or two so denying England a BP is critical and limiting any benefit to their points difference.

irishbucsfan

Buer wrote: »

It's not necessarily about France winning but this tournament is very likely to come down to a single point or two so denying England a BP is critical and limiting any benefit to their points difference.

Only way England can really put pressure on us.

We definitely should be beating Scotland and if we have any ambition at all we really should be going after our own BP to "win" the competition.

jr86

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Only way England can really put pressure on us.

We definitely should be beating Scotland and if we have any ambition at all we really should be going after our own BP to "win" the competition.

This would by my thinking

Wouldn't worry at all about Paris, where I'm fairly sure England would have gotten a TBP regardless.

All in Ireland's own hands now, if they can't beat England or Scotland fair enough, you don't deserve to win it

Buer

jr86 wrote: »

This would by my thinking

Wouldn't worry at all about Paris, where I'm fairly sure England would have gotten a TBP regardless.

I'd be surprised still if England got a TBP. It's certainly a possibility given how happy a venue Paris has been for them over the years but, Italy aside, they haven't looked very dangerous in the try scoring stakes.

Scoring 4 tries on the road in the 6N (Italy aside) is a very rare occurrence.

Bridge93

The one thing France have been doing is making tackles well. They fell asleep in Scotland and Italy at the end so if they fix that it'll be tough for England

Webbs

The forecast for Paris is pretty bad on the weekend so could turn into a slugfest so a BP is unlikely.

prawnsambo

Bridge93 wrote: »

The one thing France have been doing is making tackles well. They fell asleep in Scotland and Italy at the end so if they fix that it'll be tough for England

They're also at home. That's always a big thing for French players and having lost one at home already, they will be determined not to lose another one.

Of course that ultimately depends on whether they're able to.

prawnsambo

On the other side of the coin, Nowell and Underhill are both out of the France match and Hartley is struggling to make it.

Dog Botherer

prawnsambo wrote: »

On the other side of the coin, Nowell and Underhill are both out of the France match and Hartley is struggling to make it.

Hartley is barely a loss these days. Though the loss of him, Underhill and Nowell severely weakens England's bench. I couldn't even hazard a guess as to who is England's third choice hooker.

sydthebeat

Dog Botherer wrote: »

Hartley is barely a loss these days. Though the loss of him, Underhill and Nowell severely weakens England's bench. I couldn't even hazard a guess as to who is England's third choice hooker.

Cowan dickie no?

Bridge93

Luke Cowan Dickie probably who's a good player. Elliot Daly back softens the Nowell loss

Glass Prison 1214

What ever happened to Tom Youngs?

prawnsambo

Glass Prison 1214 wrote: »

What ever happened to Tom Youngs?

Don't think Eddie Jones ever played him. Or even selected him for a squad afaik.

Dog Botherer

sydthebeat wrote: »

Cowan dickie no?

Is he the lad with the rotten mullet?

sydthebeat

Dog Botherer wrote: »

Is he the lad with the rotten mullet?

That's him

Clegg

Exeter are curiously underrepresented in the ENgland squad. I thought Cowan Dickie was very good against Leinster. I was surprised when I learned he was far down the pecking order for England. Of course Don Armand was their best player in those games and has been pulling up trees in the Premiership but Jones doesn't fancy him at all.

Bridge93

I'd have thought Slade would be involved but for injury. Both their props and now Cowan Dickie involved as is Simmonds. Are there any other English qualified players other than Armand who are hard done by?

Matt Kvesic?

jr86

Bridge93 wrote: »

I'd have thought Slade would be involved but for injury. Both their props and now Cowan Dickie involved as is Simmonds. Are there any other English qualified players other than Armand who are hard done by?

Matt Kvesic?

I think Nowell should always be an automatic starter myself

Bridge93

jr86 wrote: »

I think Nowell should always be an automatic starter myself

So would I. Don't think I'll ever rate Jonny May as highly as the England coaches

razorblunt

Scotland team announced. Kinghorn on the wing as the only change to the starting XV.
Brown and Jones on the bench.

Kinghorn is a FB first and foremost, bold move from Townsend.

15. Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) – 58 caps

14. Blair Kinghorn (Edinburgh Rugby) – 1 cap
13. Huw Jones (Glasgow Warriors) – 14 caps
12. Pete Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 31 caps
11. Sean Maitland (Saracens) – 32 caps

10. Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors) – 35 caps
9. Greig Laidlaw VICE CAPTAIN (Clermont Auvergne) – 61 caps

1. Gordon Reid (London Irish) – 30 caps
2. Stuart McInally (Edinburgh Rugby) – 15 caps
3. Simon Berghan (Edinburgh Rugby) – 7 caps
4. Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby) – 21 caps
5. Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 41 caps
6. John Barclay CAPTAIN (Scarlets) – 69 caps
7. Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby) – 18 caps
8. Ryan Wilson VICE CAPTAIN (Glasgow Warriors) – 35 caps

Substitutes

16. Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 29 caps
17. Jamie Bhatti (Glasgow Warriors) – 6 caps
18. Willem Nel (Edinburgh Rugby) – 20 caps
19. Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors) – 34 caps
20. David Denton (Worcester Warriors) – 37 caps
21. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors) – 14 caps
22. Nick Grigg (Glasgow Warriors) – 2 caps
23. Lee Jones (Glasgow Warriors) – 7 caps

Webbs

All change for Wales, will be good to see lots of different combinations starting. Lot of new guys getting some experience either starting or off the bench
Expect to see North at center at some point in the match??

Wales starting XV:
15. Liam Williams,
14. Steff Evans,
13. Owen Watkin,
12. Hadleigh Parkes,
11. George North,

10. Gareth Anscombe,
9. Gareth Davies,

1. Nicky Smith,
2. Elliot Dee,
3. Tomas Francis,
4. Bradley Davies,
5. Cory Hill,
6. Justin Tipuric,
7. James Davies,
8. Taulupe Faletau (capt)

Replacements: Ken Owens, Rob Evans, Samson Lee, Seb Davies, Ellis Jenkins, Aled Davies, Rhys Patchell, Leigh Halfpenny

Clegg

That's an interesting Welsh front 5.

sydthebeat

good to see scotland sticking with that 23 (- seymour) and didnt bring in Worser Gray and Charlie Hardie.

sydthebeat

Thats some "mobile" back row for wales !!!!

Buer

To an Irish fan, that Welsh selection is incredible. Ireland would never look to throw so many changes into a team and drop/rotate players that are performing just to see new combinations in the 6N.

Is that 7 changes in the pack I'm counting?

prawnsambo

Buer wrote: »

To an Irish fan, that Welsh selection is incredible. Ireland would never look to throw so many changes into a team and drop/rotate players that are performing just to see new combinations in the 6N.

Is that 7 changes in the pack I'm counting?

It's game over for Wales in this championship, so Gatland is obviously using the rest of the matches to test some new combinations. Not the worst idea ever.

Buer

prawnsambo wrote: »

It's game over for Wales in this championship, so Gatland is obviously using the rest of the matches to test some new combinations. Not the worst idea ever.

I think it's a great idea. It's just that an Irish selection would never be so aggressive. Admittedly, some of those coming in are long established test players like Faletau, North, Tipuric and Bradley Davies but it's still a huge amount of change.

I'd have thought Biggar would have featured to develop some fitness and get some game time before the French game but has been cut completely.

Birdie Num Num

prawnsambo wrote: »

It's game over for Wales in this championship, so Gatland is obviously using the rest of the matches to test some new combinations. Not the worst idea ever.

Looking to Japan possibly.

pickarooney

What's up with Sam Davies these days?

stephen_n

Be very interesting to see if James Davies can bring his club form to the international stage.

prawnsambo

prawnsambo wrote: »

It's game over for Wales in this championship, so Gatland is obviously using the rest of the matches to test some new combinations. Not the worst idea ever.

They also don't have to worry about world rankings for a good while. Optimal time to build depth but I've no doubt had they beaten Ireland or England they'd have selected a much more recognisable team.

Webbs

Deleted User wrote: »

They also don't have to worry about world rankings for a good while. Optimal time to build depth but I've no doubt had they beaten Ireland or England they'd have selected a much more recognisable team.

That goes without saying, but its still adventurous (or reckless?) to go for the changes he has made. Not sure if some other nameless coaches would have done the same.

If that backrow clicks it could be a helter skelter match with both teams looking for continuity and width. Expect a hell of a lot of offloads

Mind you Wales record in the autumn internationals when they make wholesale changes is not a good one so I would imagine Italy will really target this match.

razorblunt

What’s the craic with the flanker, Young at Wasps, seems to be going well but can’t get a look in.

Webbs

England:
Watson;
May,
Te'o,
Farrell (capt),
Daly;
Ford,
Care;

M Vunipola,
George,
Cole,
Launchbury,
Itoje,
Lawes,
Robshaw,
Hughes.

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Marler, Sinckler, Haskell, Simmonds, Wigglesworth, Joseph, Brown.


Bit surprised that Brown is dropped to bench, mind you that is a dangerous looking back 3 now. England still look so unbalanced in the back row, Lawes is not a No6. Is Simmons was at 7 and robshaw at 6 then it would look far more competitive in the loose. Mind you its France and it will be a bit of a bosh fest in the forwards.
If George shows up well again could be an interesting selection for Jones come Ireland match