Article on cramping

RayCun

http://www.irunfar.com/2018/01/holy-cramp-the-science-of-exercise-associated-cramping.html

There are a bunch of related causes, hydration/electrolyte imbalance may be part of it but not the major cause. And some possible cures....

Murph_D

So pickle juice could be the solution to AMK's woes? :eek:

Itziger

My name is Itziger and I'm a cramper. Or at least I have been, was and now am again as per last marathon. It is an interesting read and even if it's placebo, I'll probably try a swig of pickle-juice halfway through Stockholm in June

I promise to report back!

Murph_D

I'm lucky enough to not be a cramper. Then again, my marathon performances are relatively poor; maybe if I could sustain the pace I would eventually say hello to The Cramp. It's an interesting article for sure.

RayCun

Murph_D wrote: »

So pickle juice could be the solution to AMK's woes? :eek:

instead of a packet of salt tablets, bring a chili pepper to nibble on!

TFBubendorfer

Last year I've used HotShot (mentioned in the article) on a couple of occasions and it worked for me.

I've known for a while that hydration had nothing to do with cramping, but the fact that one single shot of spicy liquid makes such a difference is fascinating.

zico10

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Last year I've used HotShot (mentioned in the article) on a couple of occasions and it worked for me.

I've known for a while that hydration had nothing to do with cramping, but the fact that one single shot of spicy liquid makes such a difference is fascinating.

I used it for the first time in an Ironman last October. I drank one bottle and I cramped anyway. I drank another after I'd cramped and it didn't make any difference. I wouldn't rule out trying it again based on this one experience though.
Just like the article implies, I think there's a myriad of reasons as to why one cramps. I've taken the same precautions before different marathons and Ironman I've done, and sometimes I've cramped and sometimes I haven't. I couldn't definitively identify the cause each time I cramped and I'm starting to wonder if, just like the way I end up with odd socks after a wash, it's a complete mystery.

Gijima

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Last year I've used HotShot (mentioned in the article) on a couple of occasions and it worked for me.

I've known for a while that hydration had nothing to do with cramping, but the fact that one single shot of spicy liquid makes such a difference is fascinating.

Just wondering where can u get HotShot, what ur experience was ito when to use it.

TFBubendorfer

Gijima wrote: »

Just wondering where can u get HotShot, what ur experience was ito when to use it.

I bought it online straight off their website at http://www.teamhotshot.com/. I think shipping cost as much as the goods, but I figured it was worth a try.

When I took it (at the Longford Canal Ultra last April) I had started to feel a couple of spasms already in my calf muscle, which always happens before I start cramping in earnest. I took one HS, the spasms went away and the cramps never materialised.

Itziger

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

I bought it online straight off their website at http://www.teamhotshot.com/. I think shipping cost as much as the goods, but I figured it was worth a try.

When I took it (at the Longford Canal Ultra last April) I had started to feel a couple of spasms already in my calf muscle, which always happens before I start cramping in earnest. I took one HS, the spasms went away and the cramps never materialised.

Oooooh, baby. Say that again.

opus

Don't get cramps while running thankfully but if I do anything strenuous then sometimes have an unpleasant wake up call during the night. What I use is magnesium oil as mentioned on the 5krunner's site and it seems to do the trick. In fact I did my first hill session of the year on Wed evening and felt the warning signs after going to bed but a dousing of oil on my calves meant a good night's sleep.

TFBubendorfer

Magnesium oil is certainly a lot cheaper than HotShot, that's for sure. Would definitely be worth checking out for someone desperately looking for a cure.

However, I'm not using it a lot as the cramps seem to have mostly gone away this year (not entirely sure why, though I do have a theory), so my present stash looks like it will do me for a couple of years at least.

Murph_D

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Magnesium oil is certainly a lot cheaper than HotShot, that's for sure. Would definitely be worth checking out for someone desperately looking for a cure.

However, I'm not using it a lot as the cramps seem to have mostly gone away this year (not entirely sure why, though I do have a theory), so my present stash looks like it will do me for a couple of years at least.

Go on so.

TFBubendorfer

Murph_D wrote: »

Go on so.

You asked.

I get cramps when I'm not quite in great shape. If I'm in top form I don't seem to cramp. But when I'm even just a little bit off peak shape and still try and race hard, that's when the cramping happens.

It's got nothing to do with dehydration whatsoever, and magnesium / spicy stuff might alleviate the symptoms, but the underlying cause is running a little bit ahead of your present fitness level.

As I said, that's just my theory, and based on a sample on N=1.

Gijima

opus wrote: »

Don't get cramps while running thankfully but if I do anything strenuous then sometimes have an unpleasant wake up call during the night. What I use is magnesium oil as mentioned on the 5krunner's site and it seems to do the trick. In fact I did my first hill session of the year on Wed evening and felt the warning signs after going to bed but a dousing of oil on my calves meant a good night's sleep.

Is magnesium oil available locally, looks like Amazon don't ship to Ireland.

TFBubendorfer

Gijima wrote: »

Is magnesium oil available locally, looks like Amazon don't ship to Ireland.

You should be able to get it in any pharmacy or in places like Holland&Barrett

RayCun

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Magnesium oil is certainly a lot cheaper than HotShot, that's for sure. Would definitely be worth checking out for someone desperately looking for a cure.

However, I'm not using it a lot as the cramps seem to have mostly gone away this year (not entirely sure why, though I do have a theory), so my present stash looks like it will do me for a couple of years at least.

When was the last time you raced a marathon, out of interest?

kerrylad1

Lads,was chatting to a bodybuilder in gym when I was training for my 1st marathon,in 2012.Asked how was training going.I told him, I keep getting cramps on my long run.He told me put a tea spoon of the amino acid called,Taurine,into ur water,and down it before the run.I've never had a cramp since.He said he does this,to stop the cramping,that juicing up on all those crazy steroids,cause.It's 100% natural and cheap as chips.

TFBubendorfer

RayCun wrote: »

When was the last time you raced a marathon, out of interest?

The last time I ran a marathon was in December, a back-to-back in Howth. No cramping problems, even when climbing Howth hill for the 10th time in 2 days. Admittedly, I was running at well below race effort.

The last time I raced a marathon was Manchester 2016, and the cramps over the last few miles turned a sub-3 into a 3:01. :mad:

RayCun

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Admittedly, I was running at well below race effort.

yeah, that's what I was thinking, if its the combination of distance and effort levels, then a steadier paced marathon won't do it

TFBubendorfer

RayCun wrote: »

yeah, that's what I was thinking, if its the combination of distance and effort levels, then a steadier paced marathon won't do it

Sure. It fits into my theory. In Howth I wasn't running ahead of my fitness levels, but in Manchester I was.

Magnesium or hydration levels didn't make a difference.

Enduro

My 2 cents : It's mostly about being (or not being) well conditioned for the effort. My N=1 is cramping only happens when I push the envelope a little too far beyond what tmy training has prepared me for.

My cure tip: Someone pointed toi me that the inredients of Renne tablets are pretty descent as regards to traditional electrolyte balancing chemicals such as magnesium. Cheap, and easy on the stomach, so a low risk option to try,

Testosterscone

Enduro wrote: »

My 2 cents : It's mostly about being (or not being) well conditioned for the effort.

This would be more in tune with my own thinking.

Hydration is not as big issue (though it can play a secondary role in particular with hamstring cramping)

For me the biggest factors are

1) Chronically shortened muscle ROM

2) Effort vs conditioning (what you think you can run and what your body thinks you can run)

3) Muscle microdamage (inappropriate taper)

For this reason the biggest influencers are sitting right in front of people but they refuse to look at them.

- Appropriate training and conditioning
- Proper flexibility and General conditioning
- Proper nutrition and sleep

My marathon last year I cramped quite early. Given I know my own bodies weaknesses and imbalances I could have told you a week before what muscle would be the one to go and looking back there are glaring issues with how I approached this problem (i.e I didn't)

Once your muscle fibers begin to fatigue you have to start to recruit others, the body looks for and exposes any weaknesses you have especially if you have an aggressive target.

I won't comment on on TBF of Enduro's Ultra approach because frankly it's a whole other ball game given the sub max intensities and the gastrointestinal influences.