Self driving cars

defrule

Would you ride one?

donegaLroad

defrule wrote: »

Would you ride one?

depending on the roads, yep, I would be in the back with my seat belt on though.

Self driving cars use gps co-ordinates (afaik) and the satellite guidance system is only accurate to within 1 metre at the minute. So I wouldn't trust a self driving car in a car park yet, but on the open road I would be on for giving it a go for sure.

the_pen_turner

not yet but down the line it would be handy . like long motorway driving.
I wouldn't want it all the time . just like cruise control. or adaptive driving just a bit smarter

368100

defrule wrote: »

Would you ride one?

Depends what it looked like ;-)

Duckworth_Luas

donegaLroad wrote: »

depending on the roads, yep, I would be in the back with my seat belt on though.

Self driving cars use gps co-ordinates (afaik) and the satellite guidance system is only accurate to within 1 metre at the minute. So I wouldn't trust a self driving car in a car park yet, but on the open road I would be on for giving it a go for sure.

Highly Autonomous Vehicles use what are called high definition maps, along with GNSS, to determine their location in the real world. These maps are accurate to about 30 cms, they will be updated in real time by the cars themselves and are what the vehicle will use to get from Cork to Dublin.

However, with regard to car parks and the vehicle's immediate environment on the open road, they will use technologies such as radar and lidar (like radar but using light not radio waves).

Noveight

I enjoy driving, even the relatively boring motorway miles, so I'd be slow to take a self driven car by choice.

Junkyard Tom

368100 wrote: »

Depends what it looked like ;-)

donegaLroad

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Highly Autonomous Vehicles use what are called high definition maps, along with GNSS, to determine their location in the real world. These maps are accurate to about 30 cms, they will be updated in real time by the cars themselves and are what the vehicle will use to get from Cork to Dublin.

However, with regard to car parks and the vehicle's immediate environment on the open road, they will use technologies such as radar and lidar (like radar but using light not radio waves).

Thanks, I didn't know that. There was a guy on Newstalk a few months ago who was explaining why the technology wasn't sufficient enough yet, because of satellite inaccuracy. It is only accurate to within 1 metre, he stated.

Fox_In_Socks

If I change my name to Michael Knight, then yeah. Incidentally, did he ever just sit in the back sit and kip and let KIT drive away ?

Duckworth_Luas

donegaLroad wrote: »

Thanks, I didn't know that. There was a guy on Newstalk a few months ago who was explaining why the technology wasn't sufficient enough yet, because of satellite inaccuracy. It is only accurate to within 1 metre, he stated.

Autonomous vehicles won't depend on GPS/GNSS alone. As any land surveyor will tell you the signal can be blocked by trees, buildings etc. Plus the elevation returned by GPS is basically junk for self driving purposes.

So, like commercial aircraft, the cars will also have inertial navigation units, and as I said they will also use real time hi-def maps, lidar and radar sensors. The vehicles will also "talk" to each other so that collisions should be impossible.

There is huge investment going into this in Germany, Japan, USA and China.

Canis Lupus

Not right now but for sure in the future when the tech is as bulletprrof as it can be. As mentioned motorway driving would be great. Sit back, watch a movie/read a book.

kneemos

I can see them working on motorways and urban areas,but given the state of our mud strewn,pothole filled,open drain back roads maybe not so much.
If they can't work on every road I don't see how they can be authorised.

Junkyard Tom

Horses were fairly autonomous transport. It wasn't so long ago that you could go to the local saloon, play a bit poker, get smashed on brandy, have an ol' punch-up, go flying out the saloon window and if you were helped onto your horse it would get you home.

Do we really need to reinvent the wheel hoof?

qwerty ui op

They'll put a lot of people out of a job and make .001% of random people extremely rich.
The jobless will feel bad about themselves
The rich will feel good about themselves
and it will generally be considered a great thing that a problem nobody had was solved

NIMAN

I enjoy driving. Don't want a car driving me around.

I wonder what the insurance on these is going to be like?
High or low?

qwerty ui op

Surely it won't start with actual people in cars but It'll be amazon or walmart or ikea, putting some sort of yoke on the road to carry their **** straight to your door.

Varik

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3ELVACR2VY

Peregrinus

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Not right now but for sure in the future when the tech is as bulletprrof as it can be.

The technology doesn't have to be "as bulletproof as it can be". Self-driving cars make sense once the technology reaches a point where the cars are safer drivers than humans are.

AllGunsBlazing

Motorways and dual carriageways are one thing but most Irish roads weren't even constructed with human operated automobiles in mind much less autonomous ones.

The beginning of the autonomous revolution will be slower than people think. It will start with the likes of the American big rigs delivering from depot to depot without ever entering built up or populated areas. Germany and France are probably among the only European countries with a similarly capable infrastructure?


Needless to say we're at quite a disadvantage. This won't be like the motorcar revolution where people just bought one hit the road leaving legislation to play catch up. That wont be allowed - certainly not within the EU.


Also, I'd be slightly sceptical of some technology developers over egging their advances. Most are looking for investment or in the case of bigger names - headlines, and of course a nice bump in stock valuation.

HonalD

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/12/02/autonomous-driving-levels-0-5-implications/
Just one of many sites explaining the Levels of Automation. Chances are you know or are a driver at Level 2. 
Level 5 is a long way away but the path to migration towards it is there and by 2030 a number of countries have set ambitious targets for self driving trips.
Anyone been on the DLR in London? It's self driving since it was put in over 30 years ago. yes, it's not the same as road based transport but automation and artificial intelligence is here to stay and will only increase it's influence on us. Humans are probably the only thing slowing it down!

Varik

Ye all those large EU countries with their car manufacturing are definitely not going to push it.

Adyx

I'd rather an autonomous car than get in a car with some of the imbeciles I see daily on the road. I'd bet if every car was made autonomous in the morning, road deaths would drop close to zero.

Peregrinus

Varik wrote: »

Ye all those large EU countries with their car manufacturing are definitely not going to push it.

Why not? Self-driving cars will have to be manufactured too.

ThinkProgress

Would autonomous cars have a bit of cop on, and slow the f**k down when it's icy or very wet on the road??

There are many Irish drivers, that I would be quite happy to replace with a well trained monkey... Never mind an intelligent robot!! :P

Seriously though, I don't really look forward to a future filled with automation and AI robots everywhere... It seems crazy right now, but one day I do think they could become a threat to much more than just our jobs!

But human curiosity is such, that we will probably build these dangerous machines anyway... because deep down we actually quite enjoy flirting with our own self destruction!

andekwarhola

As somebody that shares the M50 with human drivers every day, I'll gladly take my chances with the robots.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

D3V!L

donegaLroad wrote: »

depending on the roads, yep, I would be in the back with my seat belt on though.

Self driving cars use gps co-ordinates (afaik) and the satellite guidance system is only accurate to within 1 metre at the minute. So I wouldn't trust a self driving car in a car park yet, but on the open road I would be on for giving it a go for sure.

Where did you pull that out of ?? :rolleyes:

seamus

NIMAN wrote: »

I wonder what the insurance on these is going to be like?
High or low?

Incredibly low. They're proven several times safer and less likely to crash than human driven vehicles.

You won't have to worry about insurance anyway, as most people won't own one. You'll book it like a taxi to come when you need it, arrives 3 minutes later, takes you where you want to go and drives off.

skinny90

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Autonomous vehicles won't depend on GPS/GNSS alone. As any land surveyor will tell you the signal can be blocked by trees, buildings etc. Plus the elevation returned by GPS is basically junk for self driving purposes.

So, like commercial aircraft, the cars will also have inertial navigation units, and as I said they will also use real time hi-def maps, lidar and radar sensors. The vehicles will also "talk" to each other so that collisions should be impossible.

There is huge investment going into this in Germany, Japan, USA and China.

One downside is the desision making each car would have to make in a head on collision.
Imagine you are driving on a very small road on the edge of a cliff. You happen to come across a sharp corner only to be greated by suprise by on oncoming driver. Each car will talk to each other and if collision is unavoidable to minimise collateral damage and risking lives in both cars one car will decide to veer off the cliff. This is calculated by who is in the car, how many people etc

Peregrinus

skinny90 wrote: »

One downside is the desision making each car would have to make in a head on collision.
Imagine you are driving on a very small road on the edge of a cliff. You happen to come across a sharp corner only to be greated by suprise by on oncoming driver. Each car will talk to each other and if collision is unavoidable to minimise collateral damage and risking lives in both cars one car will decide to veer off the cliff. This is calculated by who is in the car, how many people etc

Not at all. With self-driving cars the situation shouldn't arise since neither car will be "surprised" by the other; each will have known all along that the other is approaching. The awareness of a self-driving car is not limited by lines of sight.

If one of the cars is human-driven and non-communicating then of course a surprise collision could occur. But (a) the self-driving car will know that this is a blind corner, and will approach it on the basis that it has to be able to stop if there turns out to be another vehicle coming. And, more to the point, (b) in a collision between a self-driving car and a human-driven car, the outcome will not be decided by an algorithm, since the human-driven car is not controlled by an algorithm. The outcome will be decided by the mechanics of the situation and the reactions, or lack of them, on the part of the human driver.

CruelCoin

For me it depends on if the "shopping trolley dilemma" is legislated for.

Unavoidable accident. Car has 2 choices.
a - Kill you. b. mount the kerb and kill the two pedestrians.

Unless i had assurances that the car was programmed for choice b, then i'd never set foot in a car that could make a choice to kill me.

BattleCorp

defrule wrote: »

Would you ride one?

I'd ride anything.

Peregrinus

CruelCoin wrote: »

For me it depends on if the "shopping trolley dilemma" is legislated for.

Unavoidable accident. Car has 2 choices.
a - Kill you. b. mount the kerb and kill the two pedestrians.

Unless i had assurances that the car was programmed for choice b, then i'd never set foot in a car that could make a choice to kill me.

But unless you had assurances that the car was programmed for choice a, surely you would never set foot on a footpath?

Green Peter

How would they react to icey/snowy road conditions

BattleCorp

Never mind your self driving cars. This will be old tech very quickly.

Self driving drones that carry people are where it's heading. Onwards and upwards I say.

seamus

CruelCoin wrote: »

For me it depends on if the "shopping trolley dilemma" is legislated for.

This is a nonsense barrier that some have invented.

Cars (and people) at the moment are not programmed to solve this "dilemma". And in practical terms it occurs very infrequently anyway. And 99.999% of the time they occur because a human driver has messed up. Autonomous vehicles follow rules, consistently and without exception. Which makes the odds of them being in a place where they have to choose between killing you or another person are very long. Like one in a billion.

There is no right answer. That's why it's a debate. Therefore the car should pick randomly. Problem solved.

All of the "what if" scenarios that people posit as proof of the dangers of autonomous cars are absolutely meaningless.

AllGunsBlazing

Going back to the OP's question - since learning to drive I've a hard enough time sitting in the passenger seat when someone else is driving. Forever looking for the footbrake when you approach a red light. I know a lot of other people are the same. It's basically drilled into your subconscious.

I'd certainly take a spin if offered but not in the back seat while reading a book.


When we finally get cars that either fly or travel through time at 88mph - then I'm in 100%.

Tazio

Worth a read : http://moralmachine.mit.edu/

Zubeneschamali

A big problem will be when we have a mix of self-driving and human piloted cars. It will take humans about 10 seconds to figure out they can bully autonomous cars with 100% effect. Drive right at them and they'll give way every time.

The roads will be populated by herds of cowardly autonomous cars and the alpha humans tearing down the white lines. When two humans meet: big accidents.

BattleCorp

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

A big problem will be when we have a mix of self-driving and human piloted cars. It will take humans about 10 seconds to figure out they can bully autonomous cars with 100% effect. Drive right at them and they'll give way every time.

The roads will be populated by herds of cowardly autonomous cars and the alpha humans tearing down the white lines. When two humans meet: big accidents.

An easy fix to that problem is dashcams. Have the cars able to automatically send footage to the Gardaí when they record illegal behaviour.

Zubeneschamali

BattleCorp wrote: »

An easy fix to that problem is dashcams. Have the cars able to automatically send footage to the Gardaí when they record illegal behaviour.

But it won't be illegal. The self driving cars will get out of my way before it gets to the dangerous stage. They will give way. They won't have the "Up Yours!" reaction human drivers have.

Ubbquittious

I won't even get a car with an automatic gearbox. So no

whisky_galore

AllGunsBlazing wrote: »

Motorways and dual carriageways are one thing but most Irish roads weren't even constructed with human operated automobiles in mind much less autonomous ones.

Most Irish towns and cities were constructed with the horse and cart in mind.

BattleCorp

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

But it won't be illegal. The self driving cars will get out of my way before it gets to the dangerous stage. They will give way. They won't have the "Up Yours!" reaction human drivers have.

Driving right at someone isn't illegal?

Wanderer78

BattleCorp wrote:

An easy fix to that problem is dashcams. Have the cars able to automatically send footage to the Gardaí when they record illegal behaviour.

Must get to work on hacking dashcam tech and related tech, to prevent data transmission and ultimate recording abilities! We ve got it covered!

CelticRambler

skinny90 wrote: »

One downside is the desision making each car would have to make in a head on collision.

Can't believe this argument is still doing the rounds. :rolleyes: Two autonomous will (as good as) never end up in such a situation. How many humans have you heard of that have ended up in a head-on collision where both of them were driving with due care and attention?

NIMAN wrote: »

I wonder what the insurance on these is going to be like?

The relevant question is not what the cost of insurance on autonomous vehicles will be, but the cost of insuring a vehicle with a human at the wheel, because that's what's going to drive the pace of adoption. We already know that humans cause a huge number of accidents every day, and computer-controlled vehicles are much safer. As soon as we get to this point:

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

a mix of self-driving and human piloted cars. It will take humans about 10 seconds to figure out they can bully autonomous cars with 100% effect. Drive right at them and they'll give way every time.

insurers will have all the hard data from real-world accidents necessary to justify a massive premium for people who want the thrill of driving themselves.

And in answer to the OP's question: I already travel in boats, planes and trains that are almost entirely computer-controlled, so what's the big deal?

seamus

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

But it won't be illegal. The self driving cars will get out of my way before it gets to the dangerous stage. They will give way. They won't have the "Up Yours!" reaction human drivers have.

It doesn't have to be dangerous to be illegal. You fail to yield and the autonomous car will yield to protect itself, but you'll still have broken the law. And the car will be equipped with recording equipment, and will probably automatically report all incidents to a control centre, who can choose to make a complaint to the Gardai - including footage of you breaking the law.

As noted above, as fewer humans drive, the cost of insurance will skyrocket for people who want to drive. But also the barriers to obtaining a licence will also increase. As it becomes less necessary for people to actually drive, the hoops you'll have to jump through to justify having a driving licence and driving a car manually will become more and more difficult.

defrule

I agree on the insurance point for people who drive themselves. Insurance will likely price people out of driving themselves.

There are other factors that might come into play. The thought is that self driving cars will start out as fleets of taxis. These taxis won't need parking because once it finishes your journey, it can go pick up someone else. It is likely parking spaces in the city will be repurposed as empty parking lots don't generated profit. So people who still drive themselves may find the cities less accommodating to their parking needs, they might find they have to park streets away from where they want to go.

There is thought that in the long term people might own self driving cars as well but I don't think that will happen. Insurance might price people out as their private cars get "old" (e.g. not have the latest sensors).

CelticRambler

I think there'll always be a market for private ownership, but having a second car in a typical family will be quickly disappear. When you think about how most typical two-parent families use their two cars these days, it's almost always because one of them goes one way to work and the other goes in the opposite direction, usually with a few deviations to schools and crèches and the shops. But for most of the day, both cars are parked up somewhere not being used by either parent. When you have one vehicle that can drive itself between different points of usage, and an on-demand service for extra journeys, the average family will opt to save the cost of owning a second car.

And yes, I think that city planners won't be slow to use the availability of autonomous (electric) cars as another reason to exclude private/human drivers from urban centres.

seamus

For the most part, people will just stop owning cars altogether. Sign up to subscriptions services that provide vehicles on demand.

You might say that for families they'll still need a car because of car seats and junk; but realistically the huge safety overhead for vehicles exists because people are terrible drivers.

Take away the human driver and the safety requirements of an autonomous vehicle become far less onerous; a seat belt may be mandatory for general safety's sake, but convoluted car seats will not be required.

suicide_circus

I mean, being able to read or sleep when in your own vehicle sounds great but I'm a bit of a fraidy cat and would be stressing out ready to grab the wheel