Munster's Gerbrandt Grobler signing - right or wrong?

The Lost Sheep

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Play the argument, not the man...

Report if you have an issue tim but its a fair point. There doesnt always have to be a comparison with other sports.

Owta Control

Owta Control wrote: »

And it's quite irrelevant tbf...we have over 120 professional Rugby players playing at the highest level ...we have less than a dozen cyclists and athletes at the same level

Most athletes or cyclist at or near international standard are training upwards of 15 times per week.

They don't need the facilities or depth of coaching of a team sport but they are still doing at least the same if not significantly more physical training.

I'd estimate that in athletics alone there are easily 100 individuals at around international or major competition qualification standard. The standards are set in almost every event by the fastest in the world and the overwhelming majority of those times are doped so it's plenty comparable to be honest.

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

And they have targetted who is likely to dope. Otherwise, they are in a controlled environment unlike say athletics and cycling where the athletes disappear off for months on end for high altitude training etc.

The real problem is the lack of testing in schools rugby - they are the ones who are most likely to chance it as there is no chance of them getting caught.

Actually post school is the much more likely. The competition standards in school can easily be met naturally. There are no major drivers to cheat.

I can't envisage a 17 year old getting the money and the wherewithal to acquire this stuff while living at home. No one is going to be handing this stuff to them.

Owta Control

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I don't think you read the post in that case. Clearly knew that a lifetime ban is not possible.

But he wants Munster to sign the player.. pay him..and not ever play him...not sure if either of you are in touch with reality there

joseywhales

Owta Control wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I don't think you read the post in that case. Clearly knew that a lifetime ban is not possible.

But he wants Munster to sign the player.. pay him..and not ever play him...not sure if either of you are in touch with reality there

I said the signing was wrong, so I did not want Munster to sign him.

However, he has already been signed therefore the next best option is to never play him, in my opinion.

Owta Control

joseywhales wrote: »

I said the signing was wrong, so I did not want Munster to sign him.

However, he has already been signed therefore the next best option is to never play him, in my opinion.

And... back to my original point... Who cares?

joseywhales

Owta Control wrote: »

joseywhales wrote: »

I said the signing was wrong, so I did not want Munster to sign him.

However, he has already been signed therefore the next best option is to never play him, in my opinion.

And... back to my original point... Who cares?

That is not a point that is a question

Owta Control

joseywhales wrote: »

That is not a point that is a question

Apologies, the question mark is like yourself.. redundant.

salmocab

Not really sure I should bother but anyway, don’t think Munster should have signed him as it makes a bit of a mockery of the zero tolerance approach, that said we should be careful of saying things about a young man who has done wrong but has also done the time. He got the ban and served it, I’m sure most think it should of been longer as he is a cheat but that’s irrelevant now they have signed him and he’s clear to play. Provinces have a bigger role to play in what’s right and wrong in the wider community than say an aviva premiership team as the provinces are also the administrators of rugby in their whole province. All that said the real test comes if a provincial player is tested positive to a performance enhancer and how we all see it then.

jm08

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually post school is the much more likely. The competition standards in school can easily be met naturally. There are no major drivers to cheat.

I can't envisage a 17 year old getting the money and the wherewithal to acquire this stuff while living at home. No one is going to be handing this stuff to them.

Really. I recall Ian Keatly saying that the year Belvedere won the cup, Cian Healy just bulldozed them around the pitch. So obviously strength and conditioning is handy to have.

As for getting the stuff - you seriously don't think they wouldn't be able to get their hands on the stuff if their dream was to have a professional rugby career and were afraid they were a little bit on the small size?

joseywhales

Owta Control wrote: »

joseywhales wrote: »

That is not a point that is a question

Apologies, the question mark is like yourself.. redundant.

Oh so you mean "who cares?" is a rhetorical question?

Instead just saying "no one cares"?

But that is not true because I care, that's why I expressed my opinion, because I care.

And I care about you too, are you ok? How are you feeling?

Neil3030

Does anyone know if they even have a test for HGH yet? They certainly didn't the last time I checked. Exogenous testosterone can also be hidden with careful manipulation of the T/E ratios. I know the most stringent antidoping policy ever employed was at the 2012 Olympics, where the full battery of blood and urine tests cost £40k per athlete tested. And yet approximately 200 still got through with that branch of steroids that they later developed a test for and caught retrospectively.

Point being, rather than knowing how often rugby players are tested, I'd be far more interested in the testing protocol, and whether they keep samples for retrospective testing.

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

Really. I recall Ian Keatly saying that the year Belvedere won the cup, Cian Healy just bulldozed them around the pitch. So obviously strength and conditioning is handy to have.

As for getting the stuff - you seriously don't think they wouldn't be able to get their hands on the stuff if their dream was to have a professional rugby career and were afraid they were a little bit on the small size?

Yes really. Do you think Healy is dirty?

I'd say a 17 year old in school would have huge difficulty in terms of finance, acquisition and id image the worry that your after buying rat poison.

I don't see schoolboys in Ireland doing this at all, certainly not any meaningful level.

Squidgy Black

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Actually post school is the much more likely. The competition standards in school can easily be met naturally. There are no major drivers to cheat.

I can't envisage a 17 year old getting the money and the wherewithal to acquire this stuff while living at home. No one is going to be handing this stuff to them.

You'd be surprised. There's a lot of young lads that are heavily into S+C and getting into powerlifting etc at that age, Healy and Porter spring to mind, both were hitting crazy numbers in SCT. Steroids and other performance enhancing stuff is generally widely available in a lot of these gyms.

Squidgy Black

Squidgy Black wrote: »

You'd be surprised. There's a lot of young lads that are heavily into S+C and getting into powerlifting etc at that age, Healy and Porter spring to mind, both were hitting crazy numbers in SCT. Steroids and other performance enhancing stuff is generally widely available in a lot of these gyms.

Maybe, but most rugby schools have their own gyms, rare for schoolboys to be venturing beyond this with any regularity.

prawnsambo

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe, but most rugby schools have their own gyms, rare for schoolboys to be venturing beyond this with any regularity.

Doesn't have to be regular.

Zzippy

Right, this thread has descended into farce and now we have indirect aspersions being cast on current players. Enough.

Edit: Following PMs from some users, le me state there were no allegations made about current players and mention of one or two was taken the wrong way. Several users have been in touch to clarify their posts, thank you.