Is there anything a average shooter can do to help loosen gun laws in this country

cosieman

Is their anything a average shooter can do to help keep gun laws the same in Ireland or loosen them is their any pro gun organisations politicians to vote for politicians to write to is their anything we can do.

Sparks

Sure. Write to your local TD, go to his or her clinic, every week, continuously, forever. Write letters to the editors of every paper, every week. Forever.
Vote against TDs who support more onerous firearms legislation; vote for TDs who do not.

Ain't sexy, it's just hard graft. Has a bad habit of both working and yet never being something we keep up.

Grizzly 45

And keep trying to educate the ignorant about what it is really like to be a hunter/gun owner.By any positive means and good example..Short of the Zombie Apocalypse happening,that's about all you can do and has been suggested in this thread so far.

Grizzly 45

Sparks wrote: »

Write letters to the editors of every paper, every week. Forever.
.

However, you don't want o to overdo it like a certain gentleman in Co Kilkenny on the anti side, who mass emails every "letter to the editor" column on a weekly basis, and whose rants are almost seasonal[Coursing will be his next topic this week and thru Feb] and has been doing so since the 1980s.What effect he has had on changing anything........... [crickets]
Editors just use his weekly rant as a space filler in the page at this stage, and everyone else just throws up their eyes to Heaven at his latest take on his favourite anti-field sports hobby horse,[or stable thereof]
Got to admire his consistency though.Or mule-headedness.

cavan shooter

cosieman wrote: »

Is their anything a average shooter can do to help keep gun laws the same in Ireland or loosen them is their any pro gun organisations politicians to vote for politicians to write to is their anything we can do.

You find that countries/governments that were formed by the gun tend not to like the ability of the same guns to be too readily available to the pleabs...so no.

Guns are nasty, black evil and used by nefarious People. Anyone who likes shooting or using guns are nuts according to the press. We need to get more into the local press about what our clubs do for good.

We also need to apply common sense, walking into SPAR VALUE on the mainstreet Camoed up with bandoleers of ammo doesnt look great neither does blocking the road with gun on hip waiting for a fox :eek: and not moving of the road for the church warden "Coz **** him Ive every right to be shooting foxes" (FACE PALM)

We need to be writing to Politicians and meeting them so they understand the voting block the shooting community has, last I hear Cavan RGC clubs are a voting block of 1100 members. (Members alone)

No politician except Michael Healey Raye and Enda Kenny ever said they like shooting or guns. Enda said it on the late late show years ago with Gay Byrne and Michael said it to Tommy Tiernan last week.

So yes we could do a lot to improve the chances but I would say only by improving the image.

gunny123

cavan shooter wrote: »

You find that countries/governments that were formed by the gun tend not to like the ability of the same guns to be too readily available to the pleabs...so no.

Guns are nasty, black evil and used by nefarious People. Anyone who likes shooting or using guns are nuts according to the press. We need to get more into the local press about what our clubs do for good.

We also need to apply common sense, walking into SPAR VALUE on the mainstreet Camoed up with bandoleers of ammo doesnt look great neither does blocking the road with gun on hip waiting for a fox :eek: and not moving of the road for the church warden "Coz **** him Ive every right to be shooting foxes" (FACE PALM)

We need to be writing to Politicians and meeting them so they understand the voting block the shooting community has, last I hear Cavan RGC clubs are a voting block of 1100 members. (Members alone)

No politician except Michael Healey Raye and Enda Kenny ever said they like shooting or guns. Enda said it on the late late show years ago with Gay Byrne and Michael said it to Tommy Tiernan last week.

So yes we could do a lot to improve the chances but I would say only by improving the image.

Michael McDowell (remember him) was a shooter, plenty of negativity towards the shooting community from him. So the fact someone like a td likes shooting or hunting, does not stop them stabbing us in the back when it is good for their career.

Plenty of so called "celebs" (i despise that term) are into shooting, but they keep it under their hats, because to admit it in public, is like outing yourself in the national press/media as a paedophile. The Rachael Allen picture of her posing with the brace of pheasants on the bonnet of the jeep, should be enough of a warning.

Grizzly 45

Think Vinnie Jones might disagree...:D As would Jack Charlton...
But then again you have to be either in the "don't give a fuk what you think!" camp or "No publicity is bad publicity." school of thought.

Mc Dowell, Kenny, Brian Fatty Cowen, that fellah that was PM before May in the UK.Are more than likely all in the Fudd school of shooting.All driven pheasants, side by sides in the 10 grand category taken out once or twice a year, and wearing a shirt &tie out shooting.

I bet none of them ever fired a handgun of any type, or shot a semi-auto rifle or were vermin hunters, let alone gutted and plucked one of their shot pheasants...So they categorise themselves as shooters alright, but would be utterly unaware and more than likely unaccepting of anyone else's preferences in the choice of guns or shooting disciplines..A Fudd can be more dangerous to us than the most rabid anti-gun nut.As you never know when they might turn Judas and throw you to the wolves to save their own hides.

Half-cocked

Remember when Finian McGrath went on a bit of an anti-firearm crusade a while back? Waving around photo's of shot up road signs (from another jurisdiction) etc etc. He was an opposition TD sitting on the Justice Committee at the time. Now he's in Government and not a squeak out of him on the issue. Why? Possibly because when he was going around the doorsteps in the run up to the 2016 General Election, he had it pointed out to him how many firearms owners there were in his constituency and how they were very unhappy about his stance. He scraped back into the Dail by a handful of votes on the umpteenth count. He's probably realized that his political future could be decided by firearms owners when things are that close. So it is possible to influence policy on occasion - but only by being an electoral threat to a politicians sense of self-preservation.

Grizzly 45

Thing is, he nailed his colours to the mast in the enquiry.Without that we would never have known either which way whether he is friend or foe.This is the big problem with Irish politicians, they are ambiguous on every issue and will run with the hare as with the hounds for any aul vote.To most of them asking their opinion on guns here is like asking me about the reproductive capability of shower curtain mould.Don't know or care,"But I will certainly agree that shower curtain mould must be able to reproduce in properly allowed circumstances.After all I have some in my grannies shower so I bear it no ill will."And the issue is forgotten about until something happens and the monkey presses his Ta or Nil button in the Dail,as he is told to do under the whip.:rolleyes:

TBH Give me five Finian Mc Graths any day over 20 ambiguous supporters.An anti can be beaten with facts and logic, a sheep in wolfs clothing is a different matter.

cosieman

We do have a problem with fudds in this country thinking the most advanced thing we should own is a side by side and hoping the politicians ban everything else beside his guns. Guns for me Not for thee.

cavan shooter

So you reckon "Fudds" are a problem,
As a fudd i'd argue it's horses for courses. I like a bit of walked up, rough shooting and once a year a driven shoot ducks over my springer. The Stephens day club shoot and a bit of clays out of the game season.

Lets be honest, Some lads like to stand in the middle of a road in British Army DPM jacket with a semi auto on there hip with 4 shells in the tube and Other lads like to walk in to a garage wearing a pistol on there belt. There shouldnt be a them and us in shooting, but realistically there is same way there is in all walks of live. If it's about portraying a positive image I'm all for common sense it doesn't scare people.

Half-cocked

cosieman wrote: »

We do have a problem with fudds in this country thinking the most advanced thing we should own is a side by side and hoping the politicians ban everything else beside his guns. Guns for me Not for thee.

Imagine this actually happened. How long before there were noises from the PTB or the Anti's saying we should be restricted to being only allowed have 1 loaded barrel at a time;)

Grizzly 45

cavan shooter wrote: »

So you reckon "Fudds" are a problem,
As a fudd i'd argue it's horses for courses. I like a bit of walked up, rough shooting and once a year a driven shoot ducks over my springer. The Stephens day club shoot and a bit of clays out of the game season.

Lets be honest, Some lads like to stand in the middle of a road in British Army DPM jacket with a semi-auto on there hip with 4 shells in the tube and Other lads like to walk in to a garage wearing a pistol on there belt. There shouldn't be a them and us in shooting, but realistically there is same way there is in all walks of live. If it's about portraying a positive image I'm all for common sense it doesn't scare people.

As there knickerbocker and tweed characters, blind scuttering drunk out on drives that cant walk straight less shoot straight

Definition of such[urban dictionary]
Fudd
Slang term for a "casual" gun owner; eg; a person who typically only owns guns for hunting or shotgun sports and does not truly believe in the true premise of the second amendment. These people also generally treat owners/users of so-called "non-sporting" firearms like handguns or semiautomatic rifles with unwarranted scorn or contempt.
"See sonny, all those pistols in that cabinet... all thems is good for is killin people." -Example of ignorant comment from a Fudd at a local gun shop. See also: Zumbo.

Ignoring the second amendment references, the attitude is quite prevalent in a good few shooters here in the political and upper-class strata.Both here in the UK
If you don't like them fine...It does not give you the right to sit in judgement of other gun owners or use your position in the shooting community to disparage others choices or disciplines..A good example, unfortunately, is Micheal Yardley or his colleague and fellow writer Jim Zumbo.Now both share the title of Uber Fudds.And in Mr Yardleys position one of Uber hypocrite as well.[Disprageing semi-auto rifles, yet posing aplenty at every given chance with one on his travels]
Get this...Our enemies don't CARE whether you have a single barrel shotgun or a 50 cal Barrett.They want ALL guns banned.We are what the Kufir is to a good Muslim.The enemy that must be converted or destroyed.Simple as.

Already we see this attitude in the UK again, with the proposed banning of 50 cal rifles,MARS rifles and airguns being licensed.And shooting organisations applauding the banning of "bump fire stocks "in the UK.Under the crazy idea that they will work on .22 semi-autos:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:.

It is simple we must hang together, or we will hang separately in this sport.We are gun owners first, everything else second.As Churchill said, "An appeaser is one who throws all others to the crocodiles, in the vain hope they will be full when they reach him."

gunny123

cavan shooter wrote: »

So you reckon "Fudds" are a problem,
As a fudd i'd argue it's horses for courses. I like a bit of walked up, rough shooting and once a year a driven shoot ducks over my springer. The Stephens day club shoot and a bit of clays out of the game season.

Lets be honest, Some lads like to stand in the middle of a road in British Army DPM jacket with a semi auto on there hip with 4 shells in the tube and Other lads like to walk in to a garage wearing a pistol on there belt. There shouldnt be a them and us in shooting, but realistically there is same way there is in all walks of live. If it's about portraying a positive image I'm all for common sense it doesn't scare people.

In truth i am probably a fudd too. I like side by side shotguns, falling or rolling block rifles, and revolvers. Anything made ofter about 1935 does not really interest me.

However back in the 1980's when this country was on the verge of bankruptcy, i seen plenty of side by side shooters in dpm. Why ? Because they had no money to buy anything else, you could get a good jacket and trousers off a stall at the local market or trailer at the mart.

I do not know of anybody but a complete idiot who stands in the middle of the road with a firearm, its an offence to have any firearm in a public place uncovered, unless you have a very good reason afaik. So why you single out people who shoot magazine fed guns is beyond me.

The fact that a tiny minority of fools thought when pistols were licenced first, that Ireland would suddenly turn into rural texas in a year or two, is no reason to deny them to the hundreds of people who behave very responsibly with them.

Grizzly 45

In truth i am probably a fudd too. I like side by side shotguns, falling or rolling block rifles, and revolvers. Anything made ofter about 1935 does not really interest me.

No, you are a guy who likes pre-1935 guns..I've never seen you say those are the ONLY type of guns "mere civilians" should be using, and that anyone who likes semi-auto assault rifles or handguns should go join the police or military and go play soldiers there. [Typical Hiberno English type Fudd statement]

Liking a particular discipline or particular type of gun a Fudd does not one make.
Saying it is the ONLY type and discipline that everyone should be doing, and that certain types are not suitable and should only be used by "authority figures" is a sure sign of Fuddism.

judestynes

cavan shooter wrote: »

You find that countries/governments that were formed by the gun tend not to like the ability of the same guns to be too readily available to the pleabs...so no.

Guns are nasty, black evil and used by nefarious People. Anyone who likes shooting or using guns are nuts according to the press. We need to get more into the local press about what our clubs do for good.

We also need to apply common sense, walking into SPAR VALUE on the mainstreet Camoed up with bandoleers of ammo doesnt look great neither does blocking the road with gun on hip waiting for a fox :eek: and not moving of the road for the church warden "Coz **** him Ive every right to be shooting foxes" (FACE PALM)

We need to be writing to Politicians and meeting them so they understand the voting block the shooting community has, last I hear Cavan RGC clubs are a voting block of 1100 members. (Members alone)

No politician except Michael Healey Raye and Enda Kenny ever said they like shooting or guns. Enda said it on the late late show years ago with Gay Byrne and Michael said it to Tommy Tiernan last week.

So yes we could do a lot to improve the chances but I would say only by improving the image.

Do hunters ever donate carcasses or butchered meat to the needy or worthy causes? Even if they did would the media bother promoting it or worse put a negative spin on what is essentially an act of kindness and compassion, you'd think this would surely improve the image.

BattleCorp

judestynes wrote: »

Do hunters ever donate carcasses or butchered meat to the needy or worthy causes? Even if they did would the media bother promoting it or worse put a negative spin on what is essentially an act of kindness and compassion, you'd think this would surely improve the image.

Even if you were saving the lives of starving people, a spin would be put on that along the lines of 'why are you murdering poor innocent animals?'.

judestynes

BattleCorp wrote: »

Even if you were saving the lives of starving people, a spin would be put on that along the lines of 'why are you murdering poor innocent animals?'.

Alas your only too right. If an A lister like Kurt Russell can't escape the wrath of the do gooders (even though he's the one actually doing good) what chance have we got. He runs a charity hunt annually, people pay big bucks to participate and all the money raised and the meat harvested go to the needy. May be the vote boycott is the only route to go, perhaps if enough people in the shooting community realise the value of their vote and use that things might change, for the better I mean and just because no one is coming after elmer's side by side 12 bore now doesn't mean they won't in the future.

Sparks

Sparks wrote: »

Sure. Write to your local TD, go to his or her clinic, every week, continuously, forever. Write letters to the editors of every paper, every week. Forever.

So, did anyone try this at any point in the last nine months?

judestynes

Sparks wrote: »

So, did anyone try this at any point in the last nine months?

Yes. I did. It's not all I do

Cass

Yup. Continuously, but most recently on Sunday night gone by. Charlie Flanagan is my local TD and also the Minister for Justice so i wrote an e-mail to him regarding the semi autos, restricted list, pistols, guidelines, etc.

Took a few hours to write it, not because it was long, but because i wanted to make sure i didn't do a soapbox preaching session, criticize the previous Minister (much), and did not make the mistake of saying something i think is innocuous but may have repercussions for the sport/firearms i spoke about.

I also did not ask him to speak to me directly, i wouldn't be so presumptuous, but to engage with the shooting bodies.

I also wrote to some shooting bodies asking them to essentially, and i'm paraphrasing here, get their head out of their ass.

judestynes

Cass wrote: »

Yup. Continuously, but most recently on Sunday night gone by. Charlie Flanagan is my local TD and also the Minister for Justice so i wrote an e-mail to him regarding the semi autos, restricted list, pistols, guidelines, etc.

Took a few hours to write it, not because it was long, but because i wanted to make sure i didn't do a soapbox preaching session, criticize the previous Minister (much), and did not make the mistake of saying something i think is innocuous but may have repercussions for the sport/firearms i spoke about.

I also did not ask him to speak to me directly, i wouldn't be so presumptuous, but to engage with the shooting bodies.

I also wrote to some shooting bodies asking them to essentially, and i'm paraphrasing here, get their head out of their ass.

Good stuff there. I also cited history and heritage as it impacts on collectors like myself and other entusiasts. The representitive bodies do need to get more proactive though I completely agree with you there.

Grizzly 45

judestynes wrote: »

Do hunters ever donate carcasses or butchered meat to the needy or worthy causes? Even if they did would the media bother promoting it or worse put a negative spin on what is essentially an act of kindness and compassion, you'd think this would surely improve the image.

It's ASFIK never been tried out.
TBH,if your belly is empty as are your kids,are you going to look a free meal down because of your morals and outlook? Its one of the oldest tricks in the book,and it was even used against us in Black47, when you could "take the soup" if you forswore Catholicism in favour of converting to Protestantism.
Would bet anyone goes down to any of our soup kitchens in Dublin and made them an offer of properly butchered out venison carcasses, they would gladly take it. Worth a phone call or a visit isnt it? Screw what the media or the "animal rights "crowd say. They aren't feeding you or your children if you are desperate with their fake outrage.When you are hungry enough, you will be amazed as to what levels you will sink to.That includes scouring an American army garbage dump for food rests from tin cans as my grandparents did in post war Germany with milllions of other Germans in the Winter of 1945.

troyzer

As a non gun owner and someone who doesn't understand it, what would you want the laws loosened to?

I'm sure there are nonsensical hold ups which are a source of frustration that should be changed. But what exactly what you guys want changed?

Bearing in mind that as far as I know, a lot of this is under EU competency.

tac foley

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Think Vinnie Jones might disagree...:D As would Jack Charlton...
But then again you have to be either in the "don't give a fuk what you think!" camp or "No publicity is bad publicity." school of thought.

Mc Dowell, Kenny, Brian Fatty Cowen, that fellah that was PM before May in the UK.Are more than likely all in the Fudd school of shooting.All driven pheasants, side by sides in the 10 grand category taken out once or twice a year, and wearing a shirt &tie out shooting.

I bet none of them ever fired a handgun of any type, or shot a semi-auto rifle or were vermin hunters, let alone gutted and plucked one of their shot pheasants...So they categorise themselves as shooters alright, but would be utterly unaware and more than likely unaccepting of anyone else's preferences in the choice of guns or shooting disciplines..A Fudd can be more dangerous to us than the most rabid anti-gun nut.As you never know when they might turn Judas and throw you to the wolves to save their own hides.

At this very moment, no less than fifty MPs in the lower house have served in the Armed forces of the UK - with current or previous military service in a regular or reservist capacity. Having served either in the regular forces or in reservist organisations, it is a significant percentage of the whole. The MPs in attendance at the internal wreath-laying ceremony in the HoP last year represented military service in a variety of operational theatres including Afghanistan, Iraq, the Balkans and Northern Ireland, and, of course, there are a number of seving MPs who learned a lot about guns during their time in the RUC/PSNI and UDR.

So much for your comment about not knowing one end of a gun from the other.

Note also that the recent attempt by the a select committee of antis here in UK to pile yet more restrictions on legal shooters has been met with a mighty level of opposition from all major political parties - over sixty MPS having signed a counter-petition to the proposals, from both the lower and upper houses.

judestynes

troyzer wrote: »

As a non gun owner and someone who doesn't understand it, what would you want the laws loosened to?

I'm sure there are nonsensical hold ups which are a source of frustration that should be changed. But what exactly what you guys want changed?

Bearing in mind that as far as I know, a lot of this is under EU competency.

Hi Troyzer.

I can't speak for the rest of the community only for myself but what I would like is simply not to penalised for what criminals do. I enjoy a hobby and because of the unlawful activities of other people I can't enjoy it as I'd wish.

troyzer

judestynes wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

As a non gun owner and someone who doesn't understand it, what would you want the laws loosened to?

I'm sure there are nonsensical hold ups which are a source of frustration that should be changed. But what exactly what you guys want changed?

Bearing in mind that as far as I know, a lot of this is under EU competency.

Hi Troyzer.

I can't speak for the rest of the community only for myself but what I would like is simply not to penalised for what criminals do. I enjoy a hobby and because of the unlawful activities of other people I can't enjoy it as I'd wish.

Right but that isn't very specific. For example, would you like an American style system? Or the current system simplified and made simple

troyzer

troyzer wrote: »

judestynes wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

As a non gun owner and someone who doesn't understand it, what would you want the laws loosened to?

I'm sure there are nonsensical hold ups which are a source of frustration that should be changed. But what exactly what you guys want changed?

Bearing in mind that as far as I know, a lot of this is under EU competency.

Hi Troyzer.

I can't speak for the rest of the community only for myself but what I would like is simply not to penalised for what criminals do. I enjoy a hobby and because of the unlawful activities of other people I can't enjoy it as I'd wish.

Right but that isn't very specific. For example, would you like an American style system? Or the current system simplified and made simple

Made more accessible*

Grizzly 45

EU INcompentency more like.
The Paris and Charlie Hebdo shootings wouldn't have happened if 8 years ago the EU had implemented the directive on proper EU wide deactivation of firearms.They sat on it and, almost seemed to wait for a massacre to happen before implementing it and demanding a host of other bans and restrictions. Fortunately, due to EU wide Shooters getting their dander up,it has been seriously watered down but is still a shambles being implemented on national levels.
What we would like to see changed here is.

License the man,not the gun.It would make changing your firearms and sales alot easier. Make the liscense a 10 year liscense too.

Remove the pistol ban on CF pistols post-Nov 2008.It is ridiculous and was implemented out of pure malignancy by an anti-gun minister. Likewise the IPSC competition ban.

Allow the right of properly certified and trained people who can justify a good need the right to concealed carry for self-protection.It exists in Northern Ireland,the Czech Republic, Germany, and surprisingly in the UK as well, if you are granted a permit by the Secretary of state,as "a person of value to HM Govt"If Ireland ever takes over Northern Ireland,ALL of those above issues will have to be addressed anyway,so it is not too outlandish.

A gun is a gun,is a gun. They are all dangerous if used incorrectly or with bad intent. Otherwise they are inert lumps of wood metal and plastic. There are no such especially dangerous types of guns out there. Therefore it should be possible to license anything here once you are declared competent and of good mind, everything from a .22 rifle up to a 20mm semi-auto sniper rifle. The onous and responsibility is on YOU an adult ,use it safely and correctly,not for society to be acting as a nanny in a kindergarten controlling dangerous things.

judestynes

troyzer wrote: »

Right but that isn't very specific. For example, would you like an American style system? Or the current system simplified and made simple

OK the "American" system differs depending on what state your in. Really what I would like once you meet the legal requirements laid out you can purchase and keep what ever you want outside of fully automatic select fire weapons. Make the laws easy to follow so not following them the individual is penalised severely not the community at large.

Grizzly 45

troyzer wrote: »

Right but that isn't very specific. For example, would you like an American style system? Or the current system simplified and made simple

Whats" an American style system"???
Do you mean a constitutionally enshrined right of a natural law to keep and bear arms?
NOT going to happen the first bit in Ireland or the EU. Unless we overthrow the Govt and rewrite the constitution here. Or become the 51st state of the union.Maybe in a parallel universe...

Do you mean each state deciding its own laws on firearms ownership, but recognising the 2A?
We have that with the European Union, more or less. Without the fundamental right as individuals to KBA.