"We don't want Scientology in our town" - Hypocrisy?

weldoninhio

inforfun wrote: »

Let me get this straight, i am not a fan of any religion. For centuries religion hasnt exactly made the world a better place in my opinion.
Would be fun to try a while without and see what happens.

I just think that i personally have to fear a religion with 1,6 billion followers a bit more than Scientology.

Is Islam consciously trying to recruit vulnerable Irish people and is its leader throwing vast amounts of money at this to make it happen???

Chrongen

Verpiss dich wrote: »

Yes the locals are total cowards I would protest against Islam way before this lot and in doing so you get branded a racist.

As regards Scientology it is just a bunch of stupid people giving their money away they are only harming themselves I say let them at it.

Edit I don't think I have ever been at any kind of protest.:D

But I would be even less inclined to protest this lot.

Yeah, but the falafel they serve in the mosque canteen is savage.

splinter65

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Sounds pretty much like a good old fashioned shunning to me!



Sure they have a few nice buildings and a few bob in their back pockets - but they've quite a way to go before they have their own country housing half the worlds priceless artworks. The bastards even charge you in to look at it!

Soooo, you apply to join the golf club, the rules book state that the golf club isn’t open on Mondays, you say “well I’m only free to play golf on Mondays” the golf club says “your welcome to join but you can’t play golf on mondays”.
So you decline to join.
Do you then go off and say “I’ve been shunned by the golf club”?
Wait, reading your posts, you probably will....

Pepefrogok

weldoninhio wrote: »

I'm very well read on Islam. I've had both muslims and ex-muslims work under me. Whilst they did not get on, especially from the still practicing side (shunning/refusing to talk to them etc), there was never any trouble. And it is common for ex-muslims to just leave the mosque and never go back.

I've no idea why you think "a good documentary about apostasy to be made by the good liberal directors of holywood(sic)" would be about Ireland, which is where we are talking about.

I've never read about an ex-scientologist who just decided that this wasn't for them and was able to walk away.

Have you ever had any ex-scientologists work under you to make this anecdote make any sense?

splinter65

TomSweeney wrote: »

And what about the guy who split the moon in 2 ?
and ascended to heaven on a winged horse ? - ridicolous right ? oh no sorry, thats Islamic beliefs - it's a beautiful thing sorry for any offence.

Poster doesn’t hate religion just hates Catholics.

Pepefrogok

weldoninhio wrote: »

Is Islam consciously trying to recruit vulnerable Irish people and is its leader throwing vast amounts of money at this to make it happen???

Yes, Saudi Arabia is funding mosques all over Europe. Far more money being spend growing Islam in Europe than by the scientology nutters.

Ursus Horribilis

Pepefrogok wrote: »

Have you ever had any ex-scientologists work under you to make this anecdote make any sense?

I strongly suggest you watch Alex Gibney's Going Clear or Leah Remini's Scientology and the Aftermath. It will be an eye opener for you.

weldoninhio

Pepefrogok wrote: »

Have you ever had any ex-scientologists work under you to make this anecdote make any sense?

Why would it need ex-scientologists to make sense?

weldoninhio

Pepefrogok wrote: »

Yes, Saudi Arabia is funding mosques all over Europe. Far more money being spend growing Islam in Europe than by the scientology nutters.

All that money, eh? I've been all over Europe and the US, never once been stopped by a Muslim asking me to join Islam. I've been stopped in Dublin more than once by the scientologists.

Chrongen

Verpiss dich wrote: »

Yes the locals are total cowards I would protest against Islam way before this lot and in doing so you get branded a racist.

As regards Scientology it is just a bunch of stupid people giving their money away they are only harming themselves I say let them at it.

Edit I don't think I have ever been at any kind of protest.:D

But I would be even less inclined to protest this lot.

They recruit people and rob them blind. Would you be ok with your daughter attending their meetings then slowly breaking all contact with family and friends as she is made to work and donate all her wages to these nuts?

Pepefrogok

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

I strongly suggest you watch Alex Gibney's Going Clear or Leah Remini's Scientology and the Aftermath. It will be an eye opener for you.

Just to be clear, I am not defending scientology, man alive they be Cray Cray! I am just stating the simple fact that Islam is more dangerous to leave than it, hell it openly states in the Quran that the penalty for leaving Islam is death and many countries around the world it's in their law! Also pew research shows an alarming amount of Muslims in the western world support death for apostasy.

bot44

gandalf wrote: »

No they are right Scientology is a cult and a scam. They are right to want it driven from their community. We already have enough problems trying to extract one cult from our society rather than letting an even bigger bunch of whackjobs free reign to get their claws into vulnerable people!

Agree entirely. Funny though, if you posted similar about Islam (which is far more dangerous and affects the lives of far more victims) you'd be branded a racist by some.

inforfun

weldoninhio wrote: »

Is Islam consciously trying to recruit vulnerable Irish people and is its leader throwing vast amounts of money at this to make it happen???

That is not the question you asked me of which you quote the answer.
You stated that leaving islam in Ireland is "no problem" like cancelling your football club membership. And it really isnt.

But to answer your question, neither Scientology nor islam has ever tried to recruit me.

But what would you call SA's offer to Germany in 2016 to finance and built 200 mosques for them? Educational help?

Irish Guitarist

Scientology was founded mere decades ago by a known conman. The only reason they even started calling it a religion is for legal and tax benefits.

And while some members of the Catholic Church may have done terrible things that's not actually part of the religion. Taking money from people is what Scientology is all about. And if you go to mass one week and then decide the next week you're finished with it no one is going to harass you about it unlike when someone leaves the 'Church' of Scientology.

bot44

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

Scientology was founded mere decades ago by a known conman.

Miracles arent real, there is no afterlife you get into if you pay reparations to the church or follow their rules and dogma. All religion is a con.

Scientology is just following along in a long, long tradition of exploiting people in order to accumulate power.

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Ursus Horribilis

You can put as little or as much as you want into the bucket at mass. Scientology runs expensive courses. Lots of them.

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Ursus Horribilis

Unless you think only rich folk remortgage their houses, take out loans and spend their life savings? I agree that they're not going to want to recruit people who are on their uppers. The vast majority of folk aren't though.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/scientology-costs-leah-remini-recap-episode-3-2016-12

RustyNut

Let me see if I have this right, the people of Ballivor protested about a cult opening a drug treatment centre in their community that they don't want there. They didn't protest about a Muslim (another cult) drug treatment centre that doesn't exist, that isn't being opened in their community and there is somehow hypocrisy being shown?

Irish Guitarist

bot44 wrote: »

Miracles arent real, there is no afterlife you get into if you pay reparations to the church or follow their rules and dogma. All religion is a con.

Scientology is just following along in a long, long tradition of exploiting people in order to accumulate power.

Very edgy but it doesn't have much to do with what I said.

bot44

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

Very edgy but it doesn't have much to do with what I said.

It certainly does. Just because an organisation is older and has more members doesnt excuse it from the behavior you are criticising Scientology for. The Irish Catholic church has accrued assets of 4 billion+ in Ireland alone, Scientology is in the ha'penny place here in comparision.

The_Valeyard

Some people on boards are so bigoted against Catholics that they are willing to defend Scientology over it , or try compare them to been the same thing. Its quite amusing.

flc37ie6ojwkh8

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Some people on boards are so bigoted against Catholics that they are willing to defend Scientology over it , or try compare them to been the same thing. Its quite amusing.

Well, they are very similar in many ways, but like every religion maybe?

bot44

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Some people on boards are so bigoted against Catholics that they are willing to defend Scientology over it , or try compare them to been the same thing. Its quite amusing.

Some people are so anti "racism" that they are prepared to defend Islam all day too.

Scientology, Catholicism and Islam are all pretty awful.

The arguments defending Islam can easily be applied to defending Scientology, which is why people seem to have swapped hats in this thread I guess.

Ursus Horribilis

They're not though. And I'm saying this as a former catholic who has a lot of issues with that religion and its history. This lot are more than just whack jobs who don't take painkillers.

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bot44

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

They're not though. And I'm saying this as a former catholic who has a lot of issues with that religion and its history. This lot are more than just whack jobs who don't take painkillers.

Of course they are the same, where do you think the Catholic church got their four billion quid? They took it from ordinary Irish people who 'donated' it after being regaled (brainwashed) with fantastic stories and threatened with being tortured for all eternity etc.

Ursus Horribilis

I don't need a history lesson in how the Catholic Church works, thank you.

bot44

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Same argument comes up with Islam, if hundreds of millions of women are happy to be stripped of their rights we should just allow them to be, any criticism is verboten.

Funny, its often the same people who defend Islam which condemn Scientology.

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bot44

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

They're not though. And I'm saying this as a former catholic who has a lot of issues with that religion and its history. This lot are more than just whack jobs who don't take painkillers.

The defenders of various religions and sects always tell us they have 'a lot of issues' with the religions and sects they are defending on Boards I notice. Left-wing athiests doing the 'whatabout Catholicism' routine when defending Islam is the one currently de rigueur seemingly. Its all very interesting.

sbsquarepants

splinter65 wrote: »

Poster doesn’t hate religion just hates Catholics.

I don't know if you're referring to me or what, but if you are I don't hate catholics any more or less than scientologists, hindus, buddhists, muslims or any other religion.
They are all more or less equally bat shít crazy if you ask me.

bot44

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Which is kind of my point. Islam and Catholicism are just further along the path of indoctrination and expoitation than Scientology.

You'd neary to be afraid to speak up for those exploited by Islam at this point.

Irish Guitarist

bot44 wrote: »

Of course they are the same, where do you think the Catholic church got their four billion quid? They took it from ordinary Irish people who 'donated' it after being regaled (brainwashed) with fantastic stories and threatened with being tortured for all eternity etc.

Except the Catholic Church doesn't actually tell anyone that they're going to Hell if they don't hand over their money. You could go to mass every day of the week and put nothing in the collection basket and no one will say anything to you.

You seem to have difficulty grasping the fact that it's a requirement of the Church of Scientology to hand over your money but it's not with the Catholic Church.

RustyNut

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

Except the Catholic Church doesn't actually tell anyone that they're going to Hell if they don't hand over their money. You could go to mass every day of the week and put nothing in the collection basket and no one will say anything to you.

You seem to have difficulty grasping the fact that it's a requirement of the Church of Scientology to hand over your money but it's not with the Catholic Church.

That's not really true is it. Isn't it easier to get a camel through the eye of a needle than get a rich man into the Christian heaven.

bot44

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

Except the Catholic Church doesn't actually tell anyone that they're going to Hell if they don't hand over their money. You could go to mass every day of the week and put nothing in the collection basket and no one will say anything to you.

You seem to have difficulty grasping the fact that it's a requirement of the Church of Scientology to hand over your money but it's not with the Catholic Church.

Are you joking? They subverted an entire society to the point that they accumulated 4 billion euro worth of assets by brainwashing a populace which was mired in abject poverty for their entire reign. They operated institutions and workhouses with actual slaves in them ffs.

Who cares what the Catholic church do now, they are almost a spent force thankfully. They should be stripped of their assets, removed from health and education and banned.

Then we should ban Scientology.

bot44

Catholicism in Ireland (1930-1980) or Islam today in the Middle East is the endgame for an organisation such as Scientology. The accumlation of untold weatlh and power to the point where they can use societal pressure to rob people of their assets instead of using the social engineering they use currently.

Drumpot

bot44 wrote: »

Some people are so anti "racism" that they are prepared to defend Islam all day too.

Scientology, Catholicism and Islam are all pretty awful.

The arguments defending Islam can easily be applied to defending Scientology, which is why people seem to have swapped hats in this thread I guess.

This is a very misguided, naieve view to take . The problem isn’t the ideals but certain groups of individuals interpretation of those ideals and the crimes/stances they are willing to take to defend those ideals.

Pretty much anything in life can be corrupted by individual groups of people. To class all things catholic bad is ironic because the concept of good and evil is a deep routed catholic teaching.

If we look at the proportion of people who follow a religion today in proportion to the radical elements of said religions, I believe it would highlight the ridiculously lazy held belief that all things religious are bad.

Absolute opinions on subjective topics (religion good or bad) is an extremely destructive stance to take. It doesn’t have a middle ground which means you aren’t interested in discussing it objectively just supporting and pushing your own agenda/beliefs.

If I expand this further and bring politics into the equation. “It’s all Fianna Fails fault for the bank collapse”, is a horsesh*t cop out excuse people used to explain the banking crisis. Irish people followed and supported the government and didn’t care the damage being done long the way. Very similar to Catholics turning a blind eye to priest paedophilia. It’s human nature to look to blame something else for the ills of the world. The problem usually boils down to people, Not the religion, politics or any other thing that society chooses to blame!

bot44

Drumpot wrote: »

This is a very misguided, naieve view to take . The problem isn’t the ideals but certain groups of individuals interpretation of those ideals and the crimes/stances they are willing to take to defend those ideals.

Pretty much anything in life can be corrupted by individual groups of people. To class all things catholic bad is ironic because the concept of good and evil is a deep routed catholic teaching.

Going to go out on a limb here, but none of this applies to Scientology I presume.

Drumpot

bot44 wrote: »

Going to go out on a limb here, but none of this applies to Scientology I presume.

Agreed.

The thing with Catholicism is that it’s being challenged in a good way and will have to adapt. This could lead to a better version. Part of the reason many people do not have anger towards British empire is because it’s healthy and mature to move on from paIns of the past.

Scientology has that secret element that hints at insidious practices. Much of catholic hidden secrets are in public domain which to me would suggest it’s more transparent.

Widdershins

Discodog wrote: »

If you want to stop being a Muslim - no problem.

If you want to stop being a Catholic - no problem.

If you want to stop being a Scientologist - good luck because you will need it.

Apostasy.

RustyNut

bot44 wrote: »

Going to go out on a limb here, but none of this applies to Scientology I presume.

And bit like the protest in Ballivor has nothing to do with Islam but some people are, just, you know..........

JCX BXC

So basically, what I've gathered is most people think its fine for established religions to extract money from their followers, prevent their followers from leaving (Islam), and attempting to influence the state (Christianity here) and doing their best to stop true secular education for youths (again, Christianity),

Yet the free practise of Scientology is actively being fought against?

Don't get me wrong again, this farce of a religion should be kicked out the door faster than Donald Trump writes an angry tweet, however the contradiction is glaring in my eyes. A newer religion is trying to take advantage of the brainwashing and abuse many other religions have done for hundreds and thousands of years, yet this is entirely different than these religions?

bot44

Drumpot wrote: »

Agreed.

The thing with Catholicism is that it’s being challenged in a good way and will have to adapt. This could lead to a better version. Part of the reason many people do not have anger towards British empire is because it’s healthy and mature to move on from paIns of the past.

Scientology has that secret element that hints at insidious practices. Much of catholic hidden secrets are in public domain which to me would suggest it’s more transparent.

This is classic stuff. Catholicism has already been outed as mega-rich organisation with its own country, operating global abuse conspiracies & peadophile rings so its the more attractive option. I see.

Widdershins

JCX BXC wrote: »

So basically, what I've gathered is most people think its fine for established religions to extract money from their followers, prevent their followers from leaving (Islam), and attempting to influence the state (Christianity here) and doing their best to stop true secular education for youths (again, Christianity),

Yet the free practise of Scientology is actively being fought against?

Don't get me wrong again, this farce of a religion should be kicked out the door faster than Donald Trump writes an angry tweet, however the contradiction is glaring in my eyes. A newer religion is trying to take advantage of the brainwashing and abuse many other religions have done for hundreds and thousands of years, yet this is entirely different than these religions?

It's the lingering mentality that you must respect religion.

I give it all the respect it deserves.

Drumpot

JCX BXC wrote: »

So basically, what I've gathered is most people think its fine for established religions to extract money from their followers, prevent their followers from leaving (Islam), and attempting to influence the state (Christianity here) and doing their best to stop true secular education for youths (again, Christianity),

Yet the free practise of Scientology is actively being fought against?

Don't get me wrong again, this farce of a religion should be kicked out the door faster than Donald Trump writes an angry tweet, however the contradiction is glaring in my eyes. A newer religion is trying to take advantage of the brainwashing and abuse many other religions have done for hundreds and thousands of years, yet this is entirely different than these religions?

I think you intentionally interpret it that way. People are corrupt, if a religion has more supporters it is bound to have more bad eggs and elements that will lead to corrupted practices. Look at how badly government run services are run!

Some religious teachings are more damaging then others.

If people , individuals , just followed and priests just preached the basic mantra of the commandments (be good, treat people fairly etc) in life, wouldn’t religion be not so bad? The problem is the same in everything in life, power and human instinct corrupts everything eventually. Capitalism is a mess, financial services sector is a corrupt cesspool , people politics is toxic and democracy is being eroded by aggressive right wing sentiments.

These are important issues facing humanity yet you think somehow that a world without religion will be better? I can let you in on a secret. Nothing will change, people will just follow something else, like online community’s and in 20 years time it be some other fade you will be giving out about. What about working on making religion better instead of wishing it out of existence ?

People mock faith without a clue of its benefits. Faith in a higher power is not all bad and to presume that bad things done in the name of a god represents the primary result of faith is wrong.

From a Scientology point of view , I feel I have an understanding and knowledge of Catholicism that means I am comfortable allowing my children to choose to either follow this religion or not. I don’t have that same confidence or knowledge of Scientology. Any information or documentary’s I have seen on it are less then flattering and the secret elements concern me. Catholicism is less of a “cult” because it is easier to get information on it to make a more objective and informed choice as to whether or not it’s for you.

dav3

What part of scientology is not a religion are some people having difficulty comprehending? Calling themselves a church doesn't mean anything. They've been busy trying to play one religion against the other since they arrived, and in doing so, trying to make themselves look like the good guys. They may as well say 'why are people protesting against scientology when they allow a starbucks or a mcdonalds', it makes as much sense as the whataboutery they use against religion.

They're an organisation whose sole purpose is to extract as much money as possible from people. Think of them as chuggers, except instead of some money going to the charity and some going to a CEO, it all goes to the CEO and they will happily destroy families and lives trying to get that money.

bot44

dav3 wrote: »

What part of scientology is not a religion are some people having difficulty comprehending? Calling themselves a church doesn't mean anything.

Who cares what they do or dont call themselves. They operate the same way religions have, to accumlate wealth and power. Its all the same.

Irish Guitarist

This is the cover of the original book by L. Ron Hubbard called Dianetics. Note the byline says "The modern science of mental health".



L. Ron Hubbard decided to turn Dianetics into a religion called Scientology to avoid paying taxes. You can actually pinpoint the time it turned from a 'science' to a 'religion'. He basically wrote a self help book and then decided to add some science fiction to it to turn it into a religion.

The entire premise of it is to make money. As in it's literally part of its teachings. You have to pay massive amounts of money to get to the next level.