The Kerry Babies Case

tayto lover

Deleted User wrote: »

No there wouldn't. Not for a known gun importer, terrorist, attempted murderer and viewer of child pornography.
Seriously, someone like that should be extremely well-known to every Garda around. The ****ing FBI were investigating him at one stage FFS.

Of course there would.

Ash.J.Williams

julyjane wrote: »

Yes that's the one I was referring to. Dalkey/Dun Laoighre I'm not sure which

you're right it's dalkey

dense

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

you're right it's dalkey

Long, but worth a read:

Dalkey house of horrors, as it became named:


http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/01/12/a-dalkey-archive/

MrJones1973

Nobody wants to go back to the 1980s but our tinder world could use a rein in. Consent is being taught in schools now and a lot of young teens expect sex first date.

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volchitsa

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How is that different to the past?

I remember fellas trying to get into my knickers on the first date 30 years ago.[/quote]
I remember having to physically fight off a friend of a friend who had taken me home after a partyin the early 80s too - and he was a Guard. Never even crossed my mind to report him, because it was one of those things back then. The idea that this is new is just silly.

MrJones1973

Im not saying men did not try it on in stupid and illegal ways in the past but teens did not meet up on apps with total strangers looking for sex . Some might say there is no harm. I dont

volchitsa

MrJones1973 wrote: »

Im not saying men did not try it on in stupid and illegal ways in the past but teens did not meet up on apps with total strangers looking for sex .  Some might say there is no harm. I dont

Things have changed, there was no internet back then, and now we don't let priests rape children.
I'm not sure it's necessarily all for the bad really. All this nostalgia is just that, nostalgia. 

You were more innocent back then, and so were teens in general - but not everyone was. And some adults could  and did use that for their own agenda. On the whole, I think it's better for young people to choose to have sex with whoever they want rather than some of them being manipulated into having sex with pillars of the community whom everyone looks up to.

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MrJones1973

I think a lot of you are deluded if you think its positive for kids teens to meet up and have sex with strangers for very obvious reasons. I don't think it was common practice for teens to meet strangers in disco s and pool halls and have sex with them. Back in the 1980s.
I wonder what impact these apps will have on their emotional development ?
Most teenage girls regret losing virginity at a young age
Perhaps you might say im an old fart but nobody will convince me that a wham bam thank you mam teenage culture is a positive.
We already have to teach kids its not ok to have sex with a comatose girl. God knows whats next!!

ohnonotgmail

MrJones1973 wrote: »

I think a lot of you are deluded if you think its positive for kids teens to meet up and have sex with strangers for very obvious reasons. I don't think it was common practice for teens to meet strangers in disco s and pool halls and have sex with them. Back in the 1980s.
I wonder what impact these apps will have on their emotional development ?
Most teenage girls regret losing virginity at a young age
Perhaps you might say im an old fart but nobody will convince me that a wham bam thank you mam teenage culture is a positive.
We already have to teach kids its not ok to have sex with a comatose girl. God knows whats next!!

all of the teenage pregnancies i remember from school in the 80's must have been miraculous conceptions.

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MrJones1973

Nobody is in favour of teenage pregnancies but that had more to do with lack of condoms than anything else. Of course people always had sex as teenagers but it was less not more in the 1980s.
Your personal sex life is your personal sex life. I really dont want to hear about it!
14-16 year olds hooking up looking for porn sex is a recipe for disaster. Then we wonder why we have to teach consent in schools and women wonder why they are mainly seen as sex objects ? Why teenage anxiety is constantly rising?

Pedophiles having a great time on various apps I suppose is just collateral damage?
You reap what you sow
I might be old fashioned but trust me you wont like where this is heading
I wont comment further.
Ill leave you to mop up the mess

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zedhead

MrJones1973 wrote: »

Nobody is in favour of teenage pregnancies but that had more to do with lack of condoms than anything else. Of course people always had sex as teenagers but it was less not more in the 1980s.
Your personal sex life is your personal sex life. I really dont want to hear about it!
14-16 year olds hooking up looking for porn sex is a recipe for disaster. Then we wonder why we have to teach consent in schools and women wonder why they are mainly seen as sex objects ? Why teenage anxiety is constantly rising?

Pedophiles having a great time on various apps I suppose is just collateral damage?
You reap what you sow
I might be old fashioned but trust me you wont like where this is heading
I wont comment further.
Ill leave you to mop up the mess

The idea that consent needs to be taught is not because of anything new, it is because historically consent has been a grey area. In the past it was considered fine to pester someone into having sex, or getting someone drunk to have your way with them, cat calling...in general it all stems from the past and womens place in society as being less than men. The fact that marital rape was not illegal until the 90s speaks volumes for how awful the historic attitudes to sex were.

People being more open about the sex they have is not necessarily a bad thing. It happened in the past too, people just didnt speak about it because it was shameful.

Pawwed Rig

MrJones1973 wrote: »

and women wonder why they are mainly seen as sex objects ?

I don't think women actually do outside of media and internet.

Billy86

Porn sex?

Take a bow, just take a ****ing bow. That is fantastic!!

Calina

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

MrJones1973 wrote: »

and women wonder why they are mainly seen as sex objects ?

I don't think women actually do outside of media and internet.

They know why. And it is not because of teenage sex.

Teenage sex is a symptom of that, not a cause. But if a society broadly under values women in general...and that attitude passes on...

Mostly I would say the position of women now is better than it was 30 years ago. More autonomy and more scope and support for dealing with rape and assault and the justice system is very slowky catching up. Consent is hasn't really historically been so grey...it was just broadly ignored in many cases.

MrJones1973

Perhaps you have some point on consent. But its amazing how convinced liberals are that every thing is fine with wall to wall porn. Kids screwing around with strangers . Various apps. Abortion. Etc naked photos on facebook
Their level of arrogance and self assurance about the new orthodoxy is quite similar to that held by conservatives in the 1980s.
We will do doubt ape the uk. Wonderful. With its 50 per cent divorce rate. One in five pregnancies aborted.
Best of luck with the self assurance

Calina

MrJones1973 wrote: »

Perhaps you have some point on consent. But its amazing how convinced liberals are that every thing is fine with wall to wall porn. Kids screwing around with strangers . Various apps. Abortion. Etc naked photos on facebook
Their level of arrogance and self assurance about the new orthodoxy is quite similar to that held by conservatives in the 1980s.
We will do doubt ape the uk. Wonderful. With its 50 per cent divorce rate. One in five pregnancies aborted.
Best of luck with the self assurance

See the highlighted line up there? This tells me you can safely be ignored. Such a total generalisation and misrepresentation of a group of people that you choose to label as other to you means you don't actually think too much about the root causes of the issues that concern you.

Some of the heaviest use of porn sites come from states in the US which are particularly repressed or conservative. Don't assume the only the liberals - as you call the - are the only ones using porn. The highest rates of teen pregnancy in the US were typically in those states which tend a) more evangelical b) more GOP and c) least access to abortion and contraception.

I'm going to be blunt and suggest that while the UK is not perfect - far from it - the fact remains that it is no skin off your nose if a woman has an abortion, or sex. And the biggest problem in terms of reducing unwanted abortions is that people like you are also massively against sex and relationship education, misrepresent those who want it as desiring wall to wall porn.

No one in Ireland calls other people liberals unless they are influenced by the political system in America and there are not so many of them.

If you do not want people to have abortions, you need to a) give women plenty of money in recognition of the contribution they make to society by having children - clue - no country really does this, not even the northern Europeans although they are generally the most supporting and b) stop punishing them and shaming the when they have babies out of line with your expectations, ie, when they are single, when they are teenagers, when they are lesbians or trans or bisexual.

Your view that you can judge other people for their behaviour and dismiss them as arrogant is tantamount to complaining about the mote in another's eyes when you cannot see the plank in your own.

PS: rape within marriage was legal within this country was legal until the 1990s. Women who get raped were historically slutshamed.

I may not have a point about consent. I have a point a point consent. Women who weren't asked didn't really get a chance to say no did they, and as recently as within the last 2 years a radio presenter in this country was implying that marriage was a defacto yes to sex at all times.

MrJones1973

Calina wrote: »

See the highlighted line up there? This tells me you can safely be ignored. Such a total generalisation and misrepresentation of a group of people that you choose to label as other to you means you don't actually think too much about the root causes of the issues that concern you.

Some of the heaviest use of porn sites come from states in the US which are particularly repressed or conservative. Don't assume the only the liberals - as you call the - are the only ones using porn. The highest rates of teen pregnancy in the US were typically in those states which tend a) more evangelical b) more GOP and c) least access to abortion and contraception.

I'm going to be blunt and suggest that while the UK is not perfect - far from it - the fact remains that it is no skin off your nose if a woman has an abortion, or sex. And the biggest problem in terms of reducing unwanted abortions is that people like you are also massively against sex and relationship education, misrepresent those who want it as desiring wall to wall porn.

No one in Ireland calls other people liberals unless they are influenced by the political system in America and there are not so many of them.

If you do not want people to have abortions, you need to a) give women plenty of money in recognition of the contribution they make to society by having children - clue - no country really does this, not even the northern Europeans although they are generally the most supporting and b) stop punishing them and shaming the when they have babies out of line with your expectations, ie, when they are single, when they are teenagers, when they are lesbians or trans or bisexual.

Your view that you can judge other people for their behaviour and dismiss them as arrogant is tantamount to complaining about the mote in another's eyes when you cannot see the plank in your own.

PS: rape within marriage was legal within this country was legal until the 1990s. Women who get raped were historically slutshamed.

I may not have a point about consent. I have a point a point consent. Women who weren't asked didn't really get a chance to say no did they, and as recently as within the last 2 years a radio presenter in this country was implying that marriage was a defacto yes to sex at all times.

Take a chill pill pal and get off the high horse.
Im not against sex or sex education. As for porn not against that either just kids under 16 having access to it.
Im not sure why you keep dragging up marital rape. I dont need the history lesson.
Perhaps I went oTT but Im only pointing out that those who are pro the direction things are taking-Teenage sex being the norm,Teenagers having access to porn(some of a very nasty nature) and posting photos of themselves nude is fine-are showing the same levels of arrogance that people had about society in the 1980s. Im just worried about teens exposure below an age where it can damage them. Everyone wants to see teens having meaningful relationships not relationships based on instant gratification. Nothing wrong with instant gratification but a kid below 16 is still developing . The recent case where a girl was tricked into sending nude photos -what age was she? Even if the guy had been her own age 10? Would that have been fine by you-the liberal pontiff?! (I know you would not approve Im just being tongue in cheek)

We should always be questioning the status quo of society. I dont think the 1980s was a golden age far from it. Im glad its over
As for Abortion. Yes Im pro life but I would never condemn anybody involved in having an abortion. Never have never will.Im just not for going the UK route.

Yes -you are right that women are not given enough support when facing a crisis pregnency . I would support more funding that way.
I dont want to get into an argument on abortion.
Just a bit of self doubt from people who think its all beautiful out there.
I call you liberal but dont get hung up on labels. I dont judge peoples behavior I just get worried when there is a total lack of doubt among people like you about the direction society is taking Its as if they cant let in a little doubt for fear their edifice will crumble. Its as if to make up for the sins of the past they want to embrace everything. Things had to swing in a more liberal natural direction. Im just saying they might have swung too far in a few areas.
But to say for expressing such a view that Im anti sex porn etc somehow approving of marital rape is just pure and utter bull****

MrJones1973

BTW Im closing my account soon . Nothing to do with this debate which Im always willing to engage in. My intention is never to offend. Perhaps provoke but not offend.#
Other reasons for leaving.

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Billy86

It should also be said that something largely lost in the noise of "kids these days" is that teen pregnancies have been falling by a large amount for a long period of time - http://www.thejournal.ie/teenage-pregnancy-ireland-3700903-Dec2017/

THE NUMBER OF teenage pregnancies has fallen by 64% in 15 years.

Earlier this year, figures released by the CSO showed a decrease in the number of teenage births from 3,087 in 2001 to 1,098 in 2016.

This equates to a decrease in the teen birth rate from 20 per 1,000 of females aged 15-19 in Ireland in 2001 to 7.8 per 1,000 in 2016.

And that's despite the population going from 3.9mn (2002 census) to 4.75mn in 2016 - with the economy I'd guess we're probably quite comfortably above 4.8mn by now.

Ash.J.Williams

Billy86 wrote: »

It should also be said that something largely lost in the noise of "kids these days" is that teen pregnancies have been falling by a large amount for a long period of time - http://www.thejournal.ie/teenage-pregnancy-ireland-3700903-Dec2017/



And that's despite the population going from 3.9mn (2002 census) to 4.75mn in 2016 - with the economy I'd guess we're probably quite comfortably above 4.8mn by now.

That's a Savage drop in fairness

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Wider availability of the MAP has a lot to do with that I would imagine. I also really hope that sex ed has improved since I was in school. Or maybe they're just all having anal, kids these days rabble rabble.

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lalababa

Soooo... back to the Kerry baby case, Garda checking Irish criminal dNA data have found nothing and have moved on to NI and UK data.
(By the way they are checking for cousins so they can Begin to narrow things down. If they get a hit, they will then have to check cousins in the South kerry area WITH their consent. If they get enough evidence they can I believe force a suspect to provide sample).
Spoke person emphasizing NI and that there were movement by certain people from South kerry to NI at that time. Reads like a flusing out 'we are getting close to you' ploy to see if someone panics.
The Gards have terrorised one family and seem hell bent on doing it to a second , 30+ years on, when the Gards responsible are dead or retired. What is the motive.

Seth Brundle

lalababa wrote: »

The Gards have terrorised one family and seem hell bent on doing it to a second , 30+ years on, when the Gards responsible are dead or retired. What is the motive.

What is there to actually suggest they are in any way terrorising a second family?

Neyite

lalababa wrote: »

What is the motive.

Presumably to catch the killer?