The Kerry Babies Case

Ralf and Florian

lalababa wrote: »

Soooo... back to the Kerry baby case, Garda checking Irish criminal dNA data have found nothing and have moved on to NI and UK data.
(By the way they are checking for cousins so they can Begin to narrow things down. If they get a hit, they will then have to check cousins in the South kerry area WITH their consent. If they get enough evidence they can I believe force a suspect to provide sample).
Spoke person emphasizing NI and that there were movement by certain people from South kerry to NI at that time. Reads like a flusing out 'we are getting close to you' ploy to see if someone panics.
The Gards have terrorised one family and seem hell bent on doing it to a second , 30+ years on, when the Gards responsible are dead or retired. What is the motive.

You're forgetting or ignoring the fact that they're trying to bring to justice the person or persons who stabbed a five day old baby to death.

RustyNut

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

You're forgetting or ignoring the fact that they're trying to bring to justice the person or persons who stabbed a five day old baby to death.

They didnt try to bring the murderer to justice during the original investigation, they attempted to fit up an innocent family, what makes you think they are not doing the same thing again?

Ralf and Florian

RustyNut wrote: »

They didnt try to bring the murderer to justice during the original investigation, they attempted to fit up an innocent family, what makes you think they are not doing the same thing again?

What makes you think they haven't learnt from the mistakes of the original investigation given the huge amount of negative publicity it received?

Wombatman

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

You're forgetting or ignoring the fact that they're trying to bring to justice the person or persons who stabbed a five day old baby to death.

Three day old.

RustyNut

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

What makes you think they haven't learnt from the mistakes of the original investigation given the huge amount of negative publicity it received?

So they are going to make the fit up stick this time, is that what you are suggesting?

SeaFields

lalababa wrote: »

The Gards have terrorised one family and seem hell bent on doing it to a second , 30+ years on, when the Gards responsible are dead or retired. What is the motive.

I have a hunch the motive might just be to catch the person that stabbed a baby to death. Just a hunch now. Nothing conclusive.

Ralf and Florian

RustyNut wrote: »

So they are going to make the fit up stick this time, is that what you are suggesting?

So its a given that they're setting out to fit someone up, is that what you're suggesting?

RustyNut

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

So its a given that they're setting out to fit someone up, is that what you're suggesting?

No its not a given but it most certainly is a possibility.

The best predictor of future behavior is … past behavior

Ralf and Florian

RustyNut wrote: »

No its not a given but it most certainly is a possibility.

The best predictor of future behavior is … past behavior

By that logic they might as well just give up conducting investigations altogether. That rape/murder/robbery will solve itself.

tayto lover

RustyNut wrote: »

No its not a given but it most certainly is a possibility.

The best predictor of future behavior is … past behavior

So they should give up investigating murders, rapes, paedophiles, assaults etc ??? Is that your logic?

RustyNut

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

By that logic they might as well just give up conducting investigations altogether. That rape/murder/robbery will solve itself.

If they gave up fit ups it would probably be better all round,but we are talking about an organisation that are institutionally dishonest.

tayto lover

RustyNut wrote: »

If they gave up fit ups it would probably be better all round,but we are talking about an organisation that are institutionally dishonest.

I still have great faith in them for one as do most people i'd say. I don't believe they're disfunctional at all. There's more than 10K of them and most do their jobs well from what I see. I had two dealings with them in the last 6/7 months and couldn't fault their work.

Are Am Eye

tayto lover wrote: »

I had two dealings with them in the last 6/7 months

You should interact with your colleagues more often.
#Teamwork.

julyjane

RustyNut wrote: »

They didnt try to bring the murderer to justice during the original investigation, they attempted to fit up an innocent family, what makes you think they are not doing the same thing again?

What makes you think they are?

RustyNut

tayto lover wrote: »

I still have great faith in them for one as do most people i'd say. I don't believe they're disfunctional at all. There's more than 10K of them and most do their jobs well from what I see. I had two dealings with them in the last 6/7 months and couldn't fault their work.

That's great that you had two positive experiences with them, other people will have had a different experience.

I don't think that two experiences can be used to extrapolate anything, either all cops are great or anything else.

We are talking about an organisation that is not belived by the Central Statistics Office , the Garda Inspectorate didn't find them to be tip top professionals,The Policing Authority don't seem too convinced that the Gardai are a compitent organisation. It would appear that they can't even keep their college tax compliente.

Maybe their is a report out their somewhere that says they are a great bunch of open transparent professionals who follow best international practice but all the reports I've read say the exact opposite, the Kerry Babies case being just one example of where the people have been letdown by their police force.

lalababa

I suppose there is a fair argument for the Gardai going after this murder suspect.

A. because there was a murder. B. New DNA evidence.
C. If they succeed it might draw a line in this cluster****. (It won't)D.They can say 'look how we've changed' E. Whatever you're having yourself.
Who knows who killed the baby and what state they were in?

tayto lover

RustyNut wrote: »

That's great that you had two positive experiences with them, other people will have had a different experience.

I don't think that two experiences can be used to extrapolate anything, either all cops are great or anything else.

We are talking about an organisation that is not belived by the Central Statistics Office , the Garda Inspectorate didn't find them to be tip top professionals,The Policing Authority don't seem too convinced that the Gardai are a compitent organisation. It would appear that they can't even keep their college tax compliente.

Maybe their is a report out their somewhere that says they are a great bunch of open transparent professionals who follow best international practice but all the reports I've read say the exact opposite, the Kerry Babies case being just one example of where the people have been letdown by their police force.

I don't believe that any of those matters on statistics are compiled by the garda members the public meet from day to day. I respect the work they are doing on the Irene White murder in Dundalk, the Graham Dwyer case etc which was down to good investigation work by them. There were no local garda members it seems working on the Kerry babies but a team from Dublin sent down to get results by management, that is from reading reports.

Pawwed Rig

tayto lover wrote: »

I don't believe that any of those matters on statistics are compiled by the garda members the public meet from day to day.

breath test figures



That is all

tayto lover

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

breath test figures



That is all

I thought it was higher up garda who compiled those figures, like superintendants?

RustyNut

tayto lover wrote: »

I thought it was higher up garda who compiled those figures, like superintendants?

I think it was from the bottom to the top.

Conversation extract contained in report between garda and call taker

Call taker: Number of vehicles stopped and controlled?

Garda: Is that the number of vehicles through the checkpoint or number of vehicles breath tested?

Call taker: Well the way I reckon...

Garda: I reckon it's stopped and breathalysed, is it?

Call taker: Even if they are not breathalysed, if you stop them and stick your head in the window, aren't they controlled, that's my thinking on it.

Garda: We will go with you…Ah 120 went through...

Call taker: How many negative breath tests?

Garda: 30 and 30, 60 ah 80, 90 we will say.

tayto lover

RustyNut wrote: »

I think it was from the bottom to the top.

Ah well if that's all it was it was minor enough. I never saw anyone sell themselves short anywhere i worked when quoting figures. Nobody was harmed.
I'd be more concerned at what happened in the Kerry Babies case than i would over that because someone suffered or was accused in the wrong.

Pawwed Rig

tayto lover wrote: »

Ah well if that's all it was it was minor enough. I never saw anyone sell themselves short anywhere i worked when quoting figures. Nobody was harmed.

Apart from the extra people who died because they did not perform their duties of course.
Road safety enforcement has a direct correlation with accidents and fatalities.

tayto lover

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Apart from the extra people who died because they did not perform their duties of course.
Road safety enforcement has a direct correlation with accidents and fatalities.

That's a fair point tbh.

RustyNut

tayto lover wrote: »

Ah well if that's all it was it was minor enough. I never saw anyone sell themselves short anywhere i worked when quoting figures. Nobody was harmed.
I'd be more concerned at what happened in the Kerry Babies case than i would over that because someone suffered or was accused in the wrong.

If our police force only lied to massage their figures that would be bad enough concidering their place in society but when even the leader of the "law and order" party is expressing concern about the evidence given by guards in a trial where citizens were facing a life sentence then I think we all have reason to be worried and if the jobstown trial teaches us anything it's that AGS have not moved one step forward since the Kerry Babies case.

goat2

Today in the news, they are now making door to door enquiries, maybe someone that knew something and were afraid to reveal, could bring this to a conclusion, also they might have a better idea where the little baby was put in the sea, with advancement of science, and DNA they could be close to the truth in the area it happened in,
I cannot think what time of the year it happened, but that area would have tourists mainly for the july, august time of year back then,

Seth Brundle

They are doing the door-to-door checks on Valentia though as they now reckon tidal movements could have swept the baby over to Caherciveen.
RTE are saying that they've made this decision based on "no specific intelligence", which seems a bit odd.

goat2

I am thinking also that they are thinking of tidal movement that night, I just think that if that little baby had lived, what would he be doing now, what age would he be now, Family members of the girl that had him, could know something

juno10353

Poor baby and poor mother, such a sad case.

Ipso

No specific intelligence, so like the original investigation.

deisemum

goat2 wrote: »

I cannot think what time of the year it happened, but that area would have tourists mainly for the july, august time of year back then,

It was April 1984, baby John was found the day before my youngest sister was born.