Hyundai Kona EV pre orders open

positron

5k difference 39kWh and 64kWh, have to think about this.

I guess buying 39kWh will make sense if you really don't need the range of the 64kWh or rarely go on long trips or have busy day full of multiple short trips without a chance to charge the car.

Round Cable

positron wrote: »

5k difference 39kWh and 64kWh, have to think about this.

To be honest, it looks like good value when you consider Nissan were recently charging €3k more for an extra 6kWh of battery, now for €5k more you're getting an extra 25kWh! That upgrade alone is more than the capacity of the original leaf.

liamog

Round Cable wrote: »

Indeed and once you go beyond €35k, the VRT will be more than the €5k grant.

The difference between the VAT rates in Germany and Ireland adds another 3.4% to the final price.

After crunching DrPhilG's numbers with this, the following could be reasonable Irish prices (with all grants factored in):

Trend 39kWh - €30,800
Trend 64kWh - €36,000

Style 39kWh - €35,100
Style 64kWh - €40,000

Premium 64kWh - €43,800

Cars tend to be priced at a relevant market.

The Ioniq Trend is €34,000 in Germany and Ioniq Premium €30,000 in Ireland.
It's not quite as straightforward as simply taking the German figure and converting it.

Round Cable

liamog wrote: »

Cars tend to be priced at a relevant market.

The Ioniq Trend is €34,000 in Germany and Ioniq Premium €30,000 in Ireland.
It's not quite as straightforward as simply taking the German figure and converting it.

Absolutely, but it gives a pretty fair indication.

To compare with the Ioniq style at €35,500 in Germany:
€35,500 x 1.14 (VRT) = €40,470
€40,470 x 1.034 (VAT) = €41,846

Less €10k incentives would leave the Ioniq at €31,846 in Ireland, not too far off the €30k actually charged here.

ELM327

So what are we expecting the Kona EV to be priced at, for the larger battery model?
€36k mentioned above for the base trim with the larger battery?

That's too expensive for a Kia/Hyundai.

And that, will mean that they won't sell and it will further the OEM agenda that EVs dont sell.

DrPhilG

Well the speculation is all well and good but the long and short of it is, if it's cheap enough I'll buy it.  If it's too expensive it won't sell well and the second hand market will be reasonable, so I'll buy it.

But hopefully it's reasonable new so I can buy it quicker.

Round Cable

ELM327 wrote: »

So what are we expecting the Kona EV to be priced at, for the larger battery model?
€36k mentioned above for the base trim with the larger battery?

That's too expensive for a Kia/Hyundai.

It could be around that price,

Just to put things into perspective, 7 years ago a 24kWh Nissan Leaf cost €31,000 in Ireland. This Kona (admittedly, the base model) for €5,000 more than that gives you 40kWh more battery capacity, one that is thermally managed, can charge at up to a rate of 100kW, much beefier electric motor, and IMHO looks better.

That is some improvement in well less than a decade.

liamog

Round Cable wrote: »

Absolutely, but it gives a pretty fair indication.

To compare with the Ioniq style at €35,500 in Germany:
€35,500 x 1.14 (VRT) = €40,470
€40,470 x 1.034 (VAT) = €41,846

Less €10k incentives would leave the Ioniq at €31,846 in Ireland, not too far off the €30k actually charged here.

About €2,000, maybe 3 if you don't include the hidden delivery fee.
List price for the Ioniq is 28,995. I wonder if the German price is "all in".

irishgrover

irishgrover wrote: »

I respectfully disagree..... and you (and most of us to a lesser degree) are personally walking talking proof of why I disagree.
You're driving a crazily priced, suicide door, four seater, with a built in generator...and in your humble opinion it's possibly one of the best cars in the history of the world...(and I'm genuinely not taking the piss). I think that the average punter is more intelligent and disconcerting that you are willing to believe. Otherwise the Nissan Tilda or some other box if ****e would be the biggest selling car in Ireland.

The car was not over priced when I got it, far from it and it will cost me only 6-7 K more than the 24 Kwh Leaf I got brand new !

Best cars in history ? how do you define this ? best car, good electric car definitely but best car in history is a bit of a stretch.

All I'm saying is that there are reasons people chose the Clio V the Zoe and that is the cost of the car was almost half and of course the range of the Zoe at the time was low which wouldn't have helped but even the Clio today is selling in far greater numbers than the 40 Kwh Zoe.

We'll see what the sales numbers will be, I'm hoping the Kona EV will at least see 30% of the Petrol sales and I hope production is not handicapped.

There's a diesel Kona on the way too so that could be the spanner in the works considering the love affair Irish drivers have with diesel, it's a shame Hyundai decided to make a ICE version at all.

liamog

Deleted User wrote: »

The car was not over priced when I got it, far from it and it will cost me only 6-7 K more than the 24 Kwh Leaf I got brand new !

Best cars in history ? how do you define this ? best car, good electric car definitely but best car in history is a bit of a stretch.

All I'm saying is that there are reasons people chose the Clio V the Zoe and that is the cost of the car was almost half and of course the range of the Zoe at the time was low which wouldn't have helped but even the Clio today is selling in far greater numbers than the 40 Kwh Zoe.

We'll see what the sales numbers will be, I'm hoping the Kona EV will at least see 30% of the Petrol sales and I hope production is not handicapped.

There's a diesel Kona on the way too so that could be the spanner in the works considering the love affair Irish drivers have with diesel, it's a shame Hyundai decided to make a ICE version at all.

No chance of the Kona Electric selling 30% in the Irish market.
They've sold 1,278 in the first six months of the year. They'll sell the full Irish allocation, but I'd expect it to be similar numbers to the Ioniq.


Kona Electric production target was rumored 18,600, that's 1,550 per month compared to original Ioniq target of 1,200. They'll be just as hard to get hold of.

Shefwedfan

Round Cable wrote: »

Indeed and once you go beyond €35k, the VRT will be more than the €5k grant.

The difference between the VAT rates in Germany and Ireland adds another 3.4% to the final price.

After crunching DrPhilG's numbers with this, the following could be reasonable Irish prices (with all grants factored in):

Trend 39kWh - €30,800
Trend 64kWh - €36,000

Style 39kWh - €35,100
Style 64kWh - €40,000

Premium 64kWh - €43,800

I can't see these number been anywhere close to what they will sell to the market.

The brand new model Santa Fei is 42k starting price. Are they going to say the Compact Crossover is the same price as there "Class Leading" Santa Fei?

It just doesn't add up.....

grogi

liamog wrote: »

About €2,000, maybe 3 if you don't include the hidden delivery fee.
List price for the Ioniq is 28,995. I wonder if the German price is "all in".

Yes. We have the delivery charges separate only not to have them taxed with VRT.

Round Cable

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I can't see these number been anywhere close to what they will sell to the market.

The brand new model Santa Fei is 42k starting price. Are they going to say the Compact Crossover is the same price as there "Class Leading" Santa Fei?

It just doesn't add up.....

But 64kWh of batteries still doesn't come cheap, we are a few years away from EV/ICE parity.

Shefwedfan

Round Cable wrote: »

But 64kWh of batteries still doesn't come cheap, we are a few years away from EV/ICE parity.

From a pricing point of view it would look stupid

If they can’t keep the price reasonable what’s the point in a64kWh battery? Sure the 39kWh would match the current market

grogi

Shefwedfan wrote: »

From a pricing point of view it would look stupid

If they can’t keep the price reasonable what’s the point in a64kWh battery? Sure the 39kWh would match the current market

Nobody is forcing you to buy one.

Shefwedfan

grogi wrote: »

Nobody is forcing you to buy one.

Water John

The seemingly slow depreciation on EVs should also be factored in. I presume, maybe wrongly, that the bigger battery will end up having less fast charges and possibly less degredation.
A lot depends on your finance source, to calculate for yourself, is the larger battery, worth it?

grogi

Water John wrote: »

The seemingly slow depreciation on EVs should also be factored in. I presume, maybe wrongly, that the bigger battery will end up having less fast charges and possibly less degredation.
A lot depends on your finance source, to calculate for yourself, is the larger battery, worth it?

Everyone is speaking about range, charging etc. It is also he'll faster, and for some it will be a very important factor. Choosing a particular version is often not only about what makes the cheapest option...

A lot will pay 30 something grand for a Fiesta, and that's entry level Mondeo pricing... I don't see anything wrong with top range electric Kona costing as much as entry level Santa Fe, that will depeciate as fast as a stone on diesel pond sinks...

I am excited for the 64kWh version, but I don't really care about the range. 40kWh would handle my range anxiety well enough.

Shefwedfan

grogi wrote: »

Everyone is speaking about range, charging etc. It is also he'll faster, and for some it will be a very important factor. Choosing a particular version is often not only about what makes the cheapest option...

A lot will pay 30 something grand for a Fiesta, and that's entry level Mondeo pricing... I don't see anything wrong with top range electric Kona costing as much as entry level Santa Fe, that will depeciate as fast as a stone on diesel pond sinks...

I am excited for the 64kWh version, but I don't really care about the range. 40kWh would handle my range anxiety well enough.

I would go for 64kWh only, simply for the reason I could floor it the whole way to family. It is 100km away and at the moment I am restricted to 100kmph.....:P

I want to get up and down ASAP

listermint

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I would go for 64kWh only, simply for the reason I could floor it the whole way to family. It is 100km away and at the moment I am restricted to 100kmph.....:P

I want to get up and down ASAP

Couldn't you do that in a 39kwh ....

Shefwedfan

listermint wrote: »

Couldn't you do that in a 39kwh ....

In winter with the heat blasting? I doubt it.

listermint

Who blasts heat.

It's an often stupidly used term.

Heat is on . It's never blasted. I'm don't see how you couldn't drive 200km with a 39kwh winter or not.

Shefwedfan

listermint wrote: »

Who blasts heat.

It's an often stupidly used term.

Heat is on . It's never blasted. I'm don't see how you couldn't drive 200km with a 39kwh winter or not.

if they give me one, I will test it and see what it can do and report back

Until then its a bit pointless trying to work out how many KM you will get out of the battery in Irish weather.

DrPhilG

listermint wrote: »

I don't see how you couldn't drive 200km with a 39kwh winter or not.

I don't see why that is hard to believe.

I managed less than 200km in a 40kWh Leaf and that wasn't even flooring it all the way.

JackieChan

Bjorn has a short walk around tour of the outside of the car https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnx3k1eZ0Eo

liamog

Round Cable wrote: »

But 64kWh of batteries still doesn't come cheap, we are a few years away from EV/ICE parity.

Using the 20% Reduction year on year rule of thumb which has somewhat matched battery price progression.

The battery in the 40kWh Kona likely costs around $600 less than the 28kWh did in the Ioniq. The 64kWh should likely cost around $4000 more than the 40kWh.

ethernet

JackieChan wrote: »

Bjorn has a short walk around tour of the outside of the car https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnx3k1eZ0Eo

Is it just me or is that battery very low? Some of our lovely speed bumps won't be too kind to it.

Dglflyer

It definitely protrudes , but given that the kona rides a litter higher you will probably have the same clearance as a regular car,
but definitely a bit of a kluge, would always be in the back of my mind ...

:eek:

ewj1978

that seems very low. nearly lower than the suspension.

slave1

Jazuz, plenty of places I know where I’d cringe using that car’s clearance

Shefwedfan

slave1 wrote: »

Jazuz, plenty of places I know where I’d cringe using that car’s clearance

Stick to the speed limit and you will have no issue....

If you do then probably shouldn't be a place to drive into with a compact Crossover....

These cars are made for spinning around cities....never to see any sign of a muddy field or a dirty building site....

eagerv

Probably still more ground clearance than the average Golf or Focus etc. Shouldn't be a problem..

DrPhilG

Shefwedfan wrote: »

These cars are made for spinning around cities....

With a 250 mile range, I think they're designed for more than city driving.

liamog

I'd say he means more of a paved road type car than off road. Crossover SUVs are designed to handle the wild off roading capabilities required to park in a field when visiting a festival instead of the rugged mountains of Connemara.

grogi

eagerv wrote: »

Probably still more ground clearance than the average Golf or Focus etc. Shouldn't be a problem..

It is not a tall car in the first place... Without battery the ground clearance is 6.7 inches (~170mm)- as much as Corolla. With battery it definitely has less, I wouldn't be sure it is still more than a Golf 142 mm...

What's more, typically worst thing in ICE that happens is you have new exhaust... Ruining your €10k battery pack and risking a fire is potentially a bit more troublesome outcome...

creedp

slave1 wrote: »

Jazuz, plenty of places I know where I’d cringe using that car’s clearance

It's an SUV, whatever that means anymore, that's all that matters

It's not that tall really ,

Shefwedfan

DrPhilG wrote: »

With a 250 mile range, I think they're designed for more than city driving.

Do we really have to spell out every post to every single details...

As I said in rest of post they are not made for building sites/farming....

They are made for driving around cities and going from one town to another on motorway....happy?

Shefwedfan

creedp wrote: »

It's an SUV, whatever that means anymore, that's all that matters

It's not a SUV. A SUV is Outlander, Q7, Land Rover etc....

This is a compact Crossover....new car bracket

So you had a i40 which Crossover version was Tucson
Then you had i30 which Compact Crossover is Kona
The SUV is Sante Fei in Hyundai land

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not that tall really ,

They put in a new suspension for the Kona BEV compared to the Kona Petrol. I would guess this is to resolve any potential issues with the battery

Unless you are driving too fast you won't touch a speed ramp....if you do, then slow down

if you damage your car on speed ramp....your own fault, slow down

Speed ramps are in place for a reason....

DrPhilG

Shefwedfan wrote: »

DrPhilG wrote: »

With a 250 mile range, I think they're designed for more than city driving.

Do we really have to spell out every post to every single details...

No need to be an arse.

grogi

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It's not a SUV. A SUV is Outlander, Q7, Land Rover etc....

This is a compact Crossover....new car bracket

So you had a i40 which Crossover version was Tucson
Then you had i30 which Compact Crossover is Kona
The SUV is Sante Fei in Hyundai land

Kona is sub-compact crossover - i20 on bigger wheels. Tucson is compact and relates to i30.

liamog

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Do we really have to spell out every post to every single details...

As I said in rest of post they are not made for building sites/farming....

They are made for driving around cities and going from one town to another on motorway....happy?

So are you saying they won't handle parking in the field at Phoenix Park when we go to bloom


I'd say that's about the limit of their off road capabilities.

Shefwedfan

liamog wrote: »

So are you saying they won't handle parking in the field at Phoenix Park when we go to bloom


I'd say that's about the limit of their off road capabilities.

If it was wet it would probably get stuck :-)

I would never park in field....just go in gates at Mount Sackvile and park on road....you can walk straight across park to the entrance. All the time on tarmac to keep the shoes clean :P

Shefwedfan

grogi wrote: »

Kona is sub-compact crossover - i20 on bigger wheels. Tucson is compact and relates to i30.

Is that not America?

In America they refer to them all as SUV's. So the ix35/Tucson is a Compact SUV and the Kona would be a Sub-compact SUV

Never in my life heard of a sub-compact Crossover, could be wrong of course.....

creedp

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It's not a SUV. A SUV is Outlander, Q7, Land Rover etc....

This is a compact Crossover....new car bracket

So you had a i40 which Crossover version was Tucson
Then you had i30 which Compact Crossover is Kona
The SUV is Sante Fei in Hyundai land

Hyundai beg to differ
http://www.hyundai.ie/home/kona-ev-coming-soon.html

FriendsEV

Going to get ugly in here when prices are announced

Pretty obvious now the 64kWh will be around €40,000

Not sure how to feel about that

Dglflyer

Will this have induction charging, I see it displayed when at the motorshows on the cut out version

liamog

FriendsEV wrote: »

Going to get ugly in here when prices are announced

Pretty obvious now the 64kWh will be around €40,000

Not sure how to feel about that

Not sure why you think that's obvious at all, signs so far point to around 36k