Hyundai Kona EV pre orders open

ELM327

liamog wrote: »

Not sure why you think that's obvious at all, signs so far point to around 36k

36 or 40, either way it's too expensive.
Yet another feather in the bow of the OEMs claiming that EVs don't sell en masse.

liamog

@36k your paying 6k more than the equivalent petrol version for a car with 20kW more power and 130 Nm more torque.
An average mileage Irish driver would save ~€1600 per year between fuel and tax.

For me the question is, over a 3 year PCP, is the electric worth €1,200 more for the faster car, and convenience of charging at home?
If you're planning on keeping it for more than 3 years 9 months, the car has covered the extra up front cost.

DrPhilG

If I do buy either the Kona or Niro new I'll be holding into it for 5-6 years.

I could wait for a second hand 40kwh Leaf in the next year, probably still cost well north if €20k, but I'd be itching to change in a few years.

A Kona/Niro would meet my needs for the foreseeable future.

ELM327

liamog wrote: »

@36k your paying 6k more than the equivalent petrol version for a car with 20kW more power and 130 Nm more torque.
An average mileage Irish driver would save ~€1600 per year between fuel and tax.

For me the question is, over a 3 year PCP, is the electric worth €1,200 more for the faster car, and convenience of charging at home?
If you're planning on keeping it for more than 3 years 9 months, the car has covered the extra up front cost.

The sums may work out, of course.
But that's not the same as people buying it.
The sums work for leafs etc now too but you dont see people buying them

Shefwedfan

DrPhilG wrote: »

If I do buy either the Kona or Niro new I'll be holding into it for 5-6 years.

I could wait for a second hand 40kwh Leaf in the next year, probably still cost well north if €20k, but I'd be itching to change in a few years.

A Kona/Niro would meet my needs for the foreseeable future.

I would agree. If buying I would hold on for a long as possible, it would meet all my requirements. No need to swap to reduce tax/fuel costs etc. Buy highest spec so you get all the little features you want. With the distance of 300+km I have more than I ever need.

DrPhilG

Exactly, a top spec Niro or Kona meets all my needs (not my wife's parking issues though) and with the minimal depreciation on EVs at the minute I can certainly justify the price.

My own car is worth €9-10k, by the end of the year I'll have about €8k saved from my reeuced fuel costs since going electric.

The rest, I'll look for finance deals.

liamog

ELM327 wrote: »

The sums may work out, of course.
But that's not the same as people buying it.
The sums work for leafs etc now too but you dont see people buying them

I don't think they'll have any trouble selling the full production run this year.
If you're going to sell them all, it's much better to concentrate on the high margin models.

Shefwedfan

DrPhilG wrote: »

Exactly, a top spec Niro or Kona meets all my needs (not my wife's parking issues though) and with the minimal depreciation on EVs at the minute I can certainly justify the price.

My own car is worth €9-10k, by the end of the year I'll have about €8k saved from my reeuced fuel costs since going electric.

The rest, I'll look for finance deals.

Take the Niro, If they done 0% on PCP like on the current PHEV then take it out on PCP depending on deal and then look after loan in year 3....depending on the number......

Dglflyer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1CR6Fu0m3g&t=933s

In Korean , but you get a good look at the battery.

grogi

Dglflyer wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1CR6Fu0m3g&t=933s

In Korean , but you get a good look at the battery.

OMG... That wiring looks more like from a Proof-of-concept car, not a production vehicle. Don't want to imagine how it behaves with salty mud covering it for majority of the year...

It really feels the Kona EV was an after-though rather than designed from the beginning.

FriendsEV

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Take the Niro, If they done 0% on PCP like on the current PHEV then take it out on PCP depending on deal and then look after loan in year 3....depending on the number......

Why would they do 0% finance when this thing is a low production model that will sell out?

They are in the business of making money

eagerv

Dglflyer wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1CR6Fu0m3g&t=933s

In Korean , but you get a good look at the battery.

That does look a bit worrying alright..

I presume they have taken a few protective covers off to make the video? Or have they?

FriendsEV

eagerv wrote: »

That does look a bit worrying alright..

I presume they have taken a few protective covers off to make the video? Or have they?

The huge battery bulging out well below the shocks and suspension is even more worrying. I hope they have some titanium plate protecting it.

Shefwedfan

FriendsEV wrote: »

Why would they do 0% finance when this thing is a low production model that will sell out?

They are in the business of making money

They are also in the business of selling car....

But as I said in the post IF they do 0%

positron

Dglflyer wrote:

In Korean , but you get a good look at the battery.

Perhaps completely irrelevant but nice simple plank shape of the battery will make it super easy for third party battery manufacturers to build compatible battery packs. Again battery life doesnt seem to be a concern on general, but if it were to, due to rapid charging etc, its some silver lining I suppose.

Dglflyer

I dont think so , what you see is what you get with

ELM327

liamog wrote: »

I don't think they'll have any trouble selling the full production run this year.
If you're going to sell them all, it's much better to concentrate on the high margin models.

If they only produce super low numbers like they did for the Ioniq EV then yeah they will sell them at 40k even.


But that's hardly their business model. Few cars at high margin?

creedp

grogi wrote: »

OMG... That wiring looks more like from a Proof-of-concept car, not a production vehicle. Don't want to imagine how it behaves with salty mud covering it for majority of the year...

It really feels the Kona EV was an after-though rather than designed from the beginning.

Is that problem only related to the larger 64kwh battery .. maybe car was originally designed with 39 kwh battery in mind?

liamog

ELM327 wrote: »

If they only produce super low numbers like they did for the Ioniq EV then yeah they will sell them at 40k even.


But that's hardly their business model. Few cars at high margin?

For the moment it is, they're constrained by battery supply to around 20,000 Kona's. Much better to sell 20,000 High End models than 20,000 Entry Level specs. There are rumours of a future Hyundai battery plant. For the moment the Ioniq and Kona are feet in the door until they can get up to speed.

Shefwedfan

ELM327 wrote: »

If they only produce super low numbers like they did for the Ioniq EV then yeah they will sell them at 40k even.


But that's hardly their business model. Few cars at high margin?

PCP is high margin, even at 0%.

Ok it is higher margin at 1 or 2% but they make more out of PCP at 0% than people getting loans from bank and buying the car straight from Kia/Hyundai.....

RedorDead

Shefwedfan wrote: »

PCP is high margin, even at 0%.

Ok it is higher margin at 1 or 2% but they make more out of PCP at 0% than people getting loans from bank and buying the car straight from Kia/Hyundai.....

Explain how? For a big manufacturer finance house - anything basically under 5.9 or 6.0% costs money to borrow on current lending rates. On a €40,000 car - 0% would cost you the bones of €4,000 which is then offset against any money actually made on the car - ie normal margin.

So i dont see how you deem 0% PCP to be "high margin"?

Shefwedfan

RedorDead wrote: »

Explain how? For a big manufacturer finance house - anything basically under 5.9 or 6.0% costs money to borrow on current lending rates. On a €40,000 car - 0% would cost you the bones of €4,000 which is then offset against any money actually made on the car - ie normal margin.

So i dont see how you deem 0% PCP to be "high margin"?

So your trying to tell me that every car company is losing money by selling PCP at under 5.9% interest?

I haven't seen a company selling PCP at interest rate at 5.9% or above.......so every car company is taking a hit by selling PCP?

ELM327

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So your trying to tell me that every car company is losing money by selling PCP at under 5.9% interest?

I haven't seen a company selling PCP at interest rate at 5.9% or above.......so every car company is taking a hit by selling PCP?

Do you understand the concept of loss leaders?
They take a small hit on the finance to get in more sales of the cars. People find 299 per month on 0% PCP a lot more palatable than having to get their own finance at 6-8%
The price of the discount is often built into the cost of the car anyway

Shefwedfan

ELM327 wrote: »

Do you understand the concept of loss leaders?
They take a small hit on the finance to get in more sales of the cars. People find 299 per month on 0% PCP a lot more palatable than having to get their own finance at 6-8%
The price of the discount is often built into the cost of the car anyway

Sorry but do you understand the concept of loss leaders?

Let's check the actually definition: a product sold at a loss to attract customers.

So are you trying to tell me that every car company that is selling PCP at under 5.9-6% is selling its products at a loss?

Just to help you along....read the below.....hence why 0% is not actually loss making which was my original point

Be wary of 0% deals - they can be too good to be true. Some dealers offer 0%. Take these deals with a pinch of salt though, as they are likely to try to recoup their losses somewhere else by, for example, inflating the ballon payment or making the ticket price more expensive than if you would have bought the car outright (where they would have been more likely to offer you a 'discount' on the ticket price).

ELM327

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Sorry but do you understand the concept of loss leaders?

Let's check the actually definition: a product sold at a loss to attract customers.

So are you trying to tell me that every car company that is selling PCP at under 5.9-6% is selling its FINANCE products at a loss? Just to help you along....read the below.....hence why 0% is not actually loss making which was my original pointBe wary of 0% deals - they can be too good to be true. Some dealers offer 0%. Take these deals with a pinch of salt though, as they are likely to try to recoup their losses somewhere else by, for example, inflating the ballon payment or making the ticket price more expensive than if you would have bought the car outright (where they would have been more likely to offer you a 'discount' on the ticket price).

The cost of finance wholesale is more than 0%
So they are either

• Increasing the cost and margin on the car to cover finance costs
• Using their own cash instead of financing (in which case the opportunity cost of said cash is worth more than 0%)
• Taking the hit directly themselves

Are you naieve enough to believe that the cost of finance is 0% ?
Money is a commodity and it comes at a cost.

0% interest = poorer deal on car, less part exchange , higher list price.......

PCP = fantastic way to drive a car once you know how it works, not many people actually do. I'm on my 2nd PCP and am quite happy for now.

Shefwedfan

ELM327 wrote: »

The cost of finance wholesale is more than 0%
So they are either

• Increasing the cost and margin on the car to cover finance costs
• Using their own cash instead of financing (in which case the opportunity cost of said cash is worth more than 0%)
• Taking the hit directly themselves

Are you naieve enough to believe that the cost of finance is 0% ?
Money is a commodity and it comes at a cost.

What are you talking about? Honestly......

Are you just googling stuff and firing it out here?

A minute ago it was a loss leader......Now you are trying to say that 0% is profitable. Which is exactly the point I made a few posts ago

It was another poster who said 0% is not profitable and car company need to sell at 5.9%/6% to make it profitable......you should be quoting their post....not mine:rolleyes:

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

0% interest = poorer deal on car, less part exchange , higher list price.......

PCP = fantastic way to drive a car once you know how it works, not many people actually do. I'm on my 2nd PCP and am quite happy for now.

PCP depending on the circumstances works perfectly for some people.

0% mean you will be buying at list but it can work out cheaper than getting a loan from bank. You need to run the numbers yourself and work out which is cheaper. An easy task but most people just see a monthly cost and never think about it......

ELM327

Shefwedfan wrote: »

A minute ago it was a loss leader......Now you are trying to say that 0% is profitable. Which is exactly the point I made a few posts ago

It was another poster who said 0% is not profitable and car company need to sell at 5.9%/6% to make it profitable......you should be quoting their post....not mine:rolleyes:

I never said 0% was profitable as a financial product. I said the opposite.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What are you talking about? Honestly......

Are you just googling stuff and firing it out here?

Ah would you ever just give over.
You're always just arguing with me for no reason.
I know you understand exactly what has been written.

Why would I google something with a qualification and gainful employment in finance & economics?


Look I'm just putting you on ignore from now on as you can't be spoken to, you find fault when it's not there with everything I say anyway.
Have a good life.

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

PCP depending on the circumstances works perfectly for some people.

0% mean you will be buying at list but it can work out cheaper than getting a loan from bank. You need to run the numbers yourself and work out which is cheaper. An easy task but most people just see a monthly cost and never think about it......

Back when I got the leaf in 2015 the interest was a lot cheaper on PCP, This time with BMW it's much cheaper again and far better than bank loans.

Shefwedfan

Can't remember if posted here before....NL have pricing out now

Dutch pricing now available. €39.195 for basic 64kWh version, €44.995 for Premium. Premium available in Netherlands from end of August, other versions and 40 kWh to follow in 2019

https://hyundai-pers.nl/hyundai-prijst-de-kona-electric/

No idea if we can work back from that to see what price could potentially be in Ireland.....

DrPhilG

Ouch

What is the story in Holland regarding grants etc?

liamog

Dutch Ioniq similar spec to ours is €33,995

Put's the Dutch Kona around 5k more than Ioniq, still tracking towards 35-36k for Irish Basic Kona 64.

Shefwedfan

DrPhilG wrote: »

Ouch

What is the story in Holland regarding grants etc?

The Ioniq Comfort is 33,067 and the Premium is 36,567....

So not sure what the translates to Irish versions here....looks more expensive, is the BEV Ioniq 29k?

Shefwedfan

Dutch Priicng
1.0 T-GDI 6MT Drive Benzine 2WD € 21.546,90 € 22.295,-
1.0 T-GDI 6MT Comfort Benzine 2WD € 23.046,90 € 23.795,-
1.0 T-GDI 6MT Essence Benzine 2WD € 25.446,90 € 26.195,-
1.0 T-GDI 6MT Fashion Benzine 2WD € 26.746,90 € 27.495,-
1.0 T-GDI 6MT Premium Benzine 2WD € 31.146,90 € 31.895,-

Irish Pricing
Kona Comfort 1.0 T-GDI Petrol 117 A4 200 €20,995
Kona Executive 1.0 T-GDI Petrol 125 B1 270 €22,995
Kona Premium 1.0 T-GDI Petrol 125 B1 270 €25,995
Kona Premium DCT 1.6 T-GDI Petrol 153 C 390 €29,995
Kona Executive with 2 Tone Roof 1.0 T-GDI Petrol 125 B1 270 €23,595
Kona Premium with 2 Tone Roof 1.0 T-GDI Petrol 125 B1 270 €26,595
Kona Premium DCT with 2 Tone Roof 1.6 T-GDI Petrol 153 C 390 €30,595

So buying a standard Kona is more or less the same price in NL if compared to here....so it depends if we get more grants to reduce the electric price

liamog

Officially Ioniq Premium here is 28,995 but you'll add another 1k to 1.5k for delivery.

The Dutch Comfort matches our Premium Spec, Dutch Premium is the UK Premium SE.
I see 33,995 and 37,495 for the prices https://www.hyundai.nl/hyundai-ioniq-ev#features

FriendsEV

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Dutch Priicng
1.0 T-GDI 6MT Drive Benzine 2WD € 21.546,90 € 22.295,-
1.0 T-GDI 6MT Comfort Benzine 2WD € 23.046,90 € 23.795,-
1.0 T-GDI 6MT Essence Benzine 2WD € 25.446,90 € 26.195,-
1.0 T-GDI 6MT Fashion Benzine 2WD € 26.746,90 € 27.495,-
1.0 T-GDI 6MT Premium Benzine 2WD € 31.146,90 € 31.895,-

Irish Pricing
Kona Comfort 1.0 T-GDI Petrol 117 A4 200 €20,995
Kona Executive 1.0 T-GDI Petrol 125 B1 270 €22,995
Kona Premium 1.0 T-GDI Petrol 125 B1 270 €25,995
Kona Premium DCT 1.6 T-GDI Petrol 153 C 390 €29,995
Kona Executive with 2 Tone Roof 1.0 T-GDI Petrol 125 B1 270 €23,595
Kona Premium with 2 Tone Roof 1.0 T-GDI Petrol 125 B1 270 €26,595
Kona Premium DCT with 2 Tone Roof 1.6 T-GDI Petrol 153 C 390 €30,595

So buying a standard Kona is more or less the same price in NL if compared to here....so it depends if we get more grants to reduce the electric price

40k then for decent spec

Its expensive

17k more than executive Kona 125bhp

I know its a little slower and might have less features, going to take a long time to get 17k back in fuel savings

Dglflyer

That bites.... 
The concept sounds great,  travel from Derry to Cork for less that a fiver , or free if you use the charging network ..
Damn near zero maintenance .... 
no oil changes, no spark plugs ,  no brake pads to change ,   no worn clutches to deal with ,   leaky radiators,  blown head gaskets ,   timing belts,  How do you put a price on these

FriendsEV

Dglflyer wrote: »

That bites.... 
The concept sounds great,  travel from Derry to Cork for less that a fiver , or free if you use the charging network ..
Damn near zero maintenance .... 
no oil changes, no spark plugs ,  no brake pads to change ,   no worn clutches to deal with ,   leaky radiators,  blown head gaskets ,   timing belts,  How do you put a price on these

Warranty for most of it

JackieChan

Dglflyer wrote: »

That bites.... 
The concept sounds great,  travel from Derry to Cork for less that a fiver , or free if you use the charging network ..
Damn near zero maintenance .... 
no oil changes, no spark plugs ,  no brake pads to change ,   no worn clutches to deal with ,   leaky radiators,  blown head gaskets ,   timing belts,  How do you put a price on these

Jeez, I'm mentally ticking each of those that have caused me problems.
Stand out issues, spark plugged seared off when BIL was helping me change them. Had to have the head removed to sort it out!

Another time head gasket went and the engineering place that was going to skim it had a robbery, 70 odd heads were stolen for some bizarre reason. Mine showed up a week later in Wexford (I'm in midlands)

slave1

EVs have brake pads albeit with longer intervals depending on driving style and regen habits.

Shefwedfan

Dglflyer wrote: »

That bites....
The concept sounds great, travel from Derry to Cork for less that a fiver , or free if you use the charging network ..
Damn near zero maintenance ....
no oil changes, no spark plugs , no brake pads to change , no worn clutches to deal with , leaky radiators, blown head gaskets , timing belts, How do you put a price on these

With the Galaxy I got a service contract thrown in which cost 300 quid when I bought. This covers the car for 3 years for main parts

I forgot about it, the wheel bearing went and brought it to garage, repair and man hours was covered with the contract.....

So to replace all of those on a diesel galaxy costs 300 to cover for 3 years:p

Of course if brand new all of these would be covered for a number of years anyway

Shefwedfan

FriendsEV wrote: »

40k then for decent spec

Its expensive

17k more than executive Kona 125bhp

I know its a little slower and might have less features, going to take a long time to get 17k back in fuel savings

When you think you can buy a Santa Fei for 42k plus delivery......

I do see you can now register your interest in Kona on the Hyundai website

liamog

The decent spec Leaf40 is €39,890 in The Netherlands.


Why would anybody buy a Leaf40 for €39,890 over the Nissan Pulsar @€;20,994, it's going to take a long time to save that €18,896 on fuel and maintenance.

FriendsEV

liamog wrote: »

The decent spec Leaf40 is €39,890 in The Netherlands.


Why would anybody buy a Leaf40 for €39,890 over the Nissan Pulsar @€;20,994, it's going to take a long time to save that €18,896 on fuel and maintenance.

Good point

Especially a banger like the Leaf40, cant even do a long trip without battery overheating

Imagine buying a brand new ICE in 1980s for 40k and the thing went into limp mode and fueled slowly after a long trip

liamog

FriendsEV wrote: »

Good point

Especially a banger like the Leaf40, cant even do a long trip without battery overheating

Imagine buying a brand new ICE in 1980s for 40k and the thing went into limp mode and fueled slowly after a long trip

It would appear you missed the point, a top spec Nissan Leaf in Ireland is not €39,890. The advertised price is €32,600.
We've have incentives that dramatically impact the price, leading to the examples seen for both the Ioniq and Leaf of price differences in the 5-7000 range compared to NL.

As to comparing a well specced model against an entry level spec and wondering why the cost is different, well you don't need to be a rocket scientist to work that one out.
At a similar spec, the currently available EVs in Ireland have an approximate 3 year pay off due to savings.

I get it, you probably want a 1000km range Dacia Sandero Alternative for the same price as the current petrol model. Someday that may be possible, fortunately the market is much bigger than those who want cheap no-spec cars with unrealistic ranges.

Shefwedfan

liamog wrote: »

It would appear you missed the point, a top spec Nissan Leaf in Ireland is not €39,890. The advertised price is €32,600.
We've have incentives that dramatically impact the price, leading to the examples seen for both the Ioniq and Leaf of price differences in the 5-7000 range compared to NL.

As to comparing a well specced model against an entry level spec and wondering why the cost is different, well you don't need to be a rocket scientist to work that one out.
At a similar spec, the currently available EVs in Ireland have an approximate 3 year pay off due to savings.

I get it, you probably want a 1000km range Dacia Sandero Alternative for the same price as the current petrol model. Someday that may be possible, fortunately the market is much bigger than those who want cheap no-spec cars with unrealistic ranges.

I have registered my interest with Hyundai, I must check Hyundai uk tomor and see can you do similar.....

Until the uk release pricing we won’t be seeing anything.....

I think I have to give up speculating on the price....just going to have to wait and see

Ewan Hoosarmi

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I have registered my interest with Hyundai, I must check Hyundai uk tomor and see can you do similar.....

Until the uk release pricing we won’t be seeing anything.....

I think I have to give up speculating on the price....just going to have to wait and see

Throw up the link here. If more people register an interest in the Kona EV, maybe Hyundai Ireland might look for a bigger allocation. No harm to try.

Shefwedfan

Ewan Hoosarmi wrote: »

Throw up the link here. If more people register an interest in the Kona EV, maybe Hyundai Ireland might look for a bigger allocation. No harm to try.

http://www.hyundai.ie/home/

On home page it has option to click on register your interest

Dglflyer

WTF , did I read this right


https://cleantechnica.com/2018/06/22/hyundai-kona-electric-gets-6969-firm-orders-from-norwegians-in-first-two-weeks/


So when will customers in Norway receive their cars? Stenbo counsels patience. “We understand that people are now excited about the delivery situation and we will continue to keep communication on this subject as open as possible. We can already say that with 6,969 orders, we expect new customers to begin receiving their cars in the middle of 2020.

That is total BS , The longer range Nissan Leaf will be out by then ,