Hyundai Kona EV pre orders open

DrPhilG

That is seriously poor if true.

All the buzz about this car and they won't be delivering the damn thing for nearly 2 years?

Dglflyer

The 2019 Nissan leaf will be out with 360 km range , that would be good enough for me, at least I would expect to get one in fairly short order

FriendsEV

Dglflyer wrote: »

WTF , did I read this right


https://cleantechnica.com/2018/06/22/hyundai-kona-electric-gets-6969-firm-orders-from-norwegians-in-first-two-weeks/


So when will customers in Norway receive their cars? Stenbo counsels patience. “We understand that people are now excited about the delivery situation and we will continue to keep communication on this subject as open as possible. We can already say that with 6,969 orders, we expect new customers to begin receiving their cars in the middle of 2020.

That is total BS , The longer range Nissan Leaf will be out by then ,

Haha 😂

Lol at Hyundai

Knew it was too good to be true, 35k EV with 400km/200bhp out soon, yeah

Almost got me

What a pack of w**kers Autogiants are

Nissan selling a banger, Koreans taking the piss with low volume, Japs not giving a **** and Germans talking ****

Come on Tesla

Take our money already

FriendsEV

Dglflyer wrote: »

The 2019 Nissan leaf will be out with 360 km range , that would be good enough for me, at least I would expect to get one in fairly short order

From latest rumours its more like 2020 Leaf or even 2021 Leaf

Not even the slightest bit of news coming from then about Leaf 60, nothing in months

They make a killing selling tesco value battery Leaf 40kWh

JackieChan

FriendsEV wrote: »

From latest rumours its more like 2020 Leaf or even 2021 Leaf

Not even the slightest bit of news coming from then about Leaf 60, nothing in months

They make a killing selling tesco value battery Leaf 40kWh

It depends on your needs and not everyone needs 250km+ range frequently so this is more than enough.

Suits me perfectly. In the past 5 years I've done only a handful of journeys that would have required a rapid charger.

Shefwedfan

FriendsEV wrote: »

Haha ��

Lol at Hyundai

Knew it was too good to be true, 35k EV with 400km/200bhp out soon, yeah

Almost got me

What a pack of w**kers Autogiants are

Nissan selling a banger, Koreans taking the piss with low volume, Japs not giving a **** and Germans talking ****

Come on Tesla

Take our money already

Ahh now Thierry....

Calm down....I see with the multiple account changes you still love your Tesla's :P

Shefwedfan

Dglflyer wrote: »

The 2019 Nissan leaf will be out with 360 km range , that would be good enough for me, at least I would expect to get one in fairly short order

I doubt the 2019 Leaf will raise it's head till 2020....

It is not like Nissan are struggling with sales. Why replace when it is at its peak of sales. Let it run for another year and then maybe launch on 2020 with release in 2021. Its not like they didn't flog the Leaf Gen 1 for way past it sell by date

JackieChan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ahh now Thierry....

Calm down....I see with the multiple account changes you still love your Tesla's :P

Thanks! I was trying to wrack my brain and think of that previous posters name....its so obviously him

Shefwedfan

JackieChan wrote: »

Thanks! I was trying to wrack my brain and think of that previous posters name....its so obviously him

At start of thread it was Thierry....then he had another alias in the middle....now we are on this one.....I must try and find the other one :P

In the middle it was Y2K86

liamog

In other interesting news.
Hyundai estimated an annual demand in Norway of 2000 vehicles according to source
No doubt based on the fact they are selling around 500 Ioniq Electrics per quarter. source

500 per quarter starting in July '18 puts the next available cars well into 2021 so they must have found some future allocation.

We know that Hyundai allocate manufacturing to each country and seem pretty rigid on those numbers.
Its one of the reasons the Ioniq was easier to get hold of in Ireland than the UK despite being essentially the exact same.

Fingers cross Hyundai Ireland put a big number into currently planned 18,600 per year.

I just hope that the ESB and Ionity get the finger out because we're really going to have heartache and possible fights at chargers in the next few years.

Kona may have 300-350 kms range but what use is it if you struggle to get a charge when you actually need it ? I don't care whether there is billing for electricity or not at this stage because a sudden surge in ev purchases will mean disaster at charge points.

Whether there is 300 km or 100 km range, the more electrics on the road mean a lot more queuing.

LotharIngum

Deleted User wrote: »

I just hope that the ESB and Ionity get the finger out because we're really going to have heartache and possible fights at chargers in the next few years.

Kona may have 300-350 kms range but what use is it if you struggle to get a charge when you actually need it ? I don't care whether there is billing for electricity or not at this stage because a sudden surge in ev purchases will mean disaster at charge points.

Whether there is 300 km or 100 km range, the more electrics on the road mean a lot more queuing.

I was number three in line at a charger in Ennis a few weeks ago and two more people arrived waiting for it. Quietly the woman approached the second in line and asked could she get in instead of him because she was in a hurry (like us all) and he let her in. He then presumed he was getting in ahead of myself and the other car after giving up his place.
Big fight. I nearly had to call the police.
I dread going on a long trip in an EV nowadays. ITs not range anxiety anymore, its FCP anxiety instead. A long trip in an EV just takes too long when there is queuing at chargers.

woppers

LotharIngum wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

I just hope that the ESB and Ionity get the finger out because we're really going to have heartache and possible fights at chargers in the next few years.

Kona may have 300-350 kms range but what use is it if you struggle to get a charge when you actually need it ? I don't care whether there is billing for electricity or not at this stage because a sudden surge in ev purchases will mean disaster at charge points.

Whether there is 300 km or 100 km range, the more electrics on the road mean a lot more queuing.

I was number three in line at a charger in Ennis a few weeks ago and two more people arrived waiting for it. Quietly the woman approached the second in line and asked could she get in instead of him because she was in a hurry (like us all) and he let her in. He then presumed he was getting in ahead of myself and the other car after giving up his place.
Big fight. I nearly had to call the police.
I dread going on a long trip in an EV nowadays. ITs not range anxiety anymore, its FCP anxiety instead. A long trip in an EV just takes too long when there is queuing at chargers.

Jaysus... That's a bleak situation to be in. I've never been in a situation like that thank god.

I charge at home 99.9% of the time. I only use the public network occasionally. I'm all for charging a fee to charge a car if its going to prevent hassle at the charge points.

liamog

It was bad enough when we needed an etiquette guide to charging. Now we need an etiquette guide for queue jumpers. What is the world coming too.

The problem is that a spike in ev sales will have disastrous consequences at fast chargers.

Even for those who mostly charge at home , they will need fast charging for time to time and it will be a damn pain in the ass if you have to wait 1.5 hrs or more , at that rate anyone with 6+ kw would be better off at ac point and have dinner somewhere it would be better than waiting doing nothing.

ewj1978

interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMvQ6jJXnaw

maxing out at 24kw when charging

"Yesterday I had the opportunity to watch a pre-production model of the Hyundai Kona Elektro loading.
Charging started at 75% SOC.
Charging station from Delta / EVTEC has previously charged my IONIQ Elektro with 65 kW.
The Kona may have had cold cells, because it was at night around 5-8 degrees and he stood the whole time.
It is a model of the series 0."

Kona rapidgate? :P

i'm joking. Personally I believe its programmed to slow at 70% after charging @100kw.

DrPhilG

Yeah I saw that vid.

Doesn't really tell us anything other than that tapering has already begun at some point before 75%.

If it starts at 70%, not too bad (the L40 starts at 65%).

If it starts to taper at 50% then it could be a problem.

But charging at 24kw at 75% is not that much of a shocker.

grogi

DrPhilG wrote: »

. But charging at 24kw at 75% is not that much of a shocker.

Especially with cold battery

FriendsEV

ewj1978 wrote: »

interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMvQ6jJXnaw

maxing out at 24kw when charging

"Yesterday I had the opportunity to watch a pre-production model of the Hyundai Kona Elektro loading.
Charging started at 75% SOC.
Charging station from Delta / EVTEC has previously charged my IONIQ Elektro with 65 kW.
The Kona may have had cold cells, because it was at night around 5-8 degrees and he stood the whole time.
It is a model of the series 0."

Kona rapidgate? :P

i'm joking. Personally I believe its programmed to slow at 70% after charging @100kw.

Chevy Bolt has the same charging issues, only complaints that it receives, quiet a bit slower to charge than Teslas from reading US forums

Guessing they are using similar LG cells in the Kona

Ahh well

liamog

FriendsEV wrote: »

Chevy Bolt has the same charging issues, only complaints that it receives, quiet a bit slower to charge than Teslas from reading US forums

Guessing they are using similar LG cells in the Kona

Ahh well

For once, would you wait till you have some information before making a judgement. The Ioniq drops to 22kW around 80% (150km) SOC.

By all means, if you can dig out a charge curve from 10% to 80% and we see that it tapers from 30% then yes I will question their judgement. But slowing the charge rate at 75% (300km) is not the end of the world if that's what they've programmed it to do.

FriendsEV

liamog wrote: »

For once, would you wait till you have some information before making a judgement. The Ioniq drops to 22kW around 80% (150km) SOC.

By all means, if you can dig out a charge curve from 10% to 80% and we see that it tapers from 30% then yes I will question their judgement. But slowing the charge rate at 75% (300km) is not the end of the world if that's what they've programmed it to do.

Less aggressive please

I have information, well its speculation, but its a forum after all and I am not an LG Chem engineer

I said similar LG cells to Chevy Bolt, which is looking likely, no new chemistry here, similar performance to Chevy Bolts 60kWh pack

Its well known to taper off at 50% and again at 70% to protect the battery

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1109714_more-details-on-fast-charging-rate-in-2017-chevy-bolt-ev-electric-car

liamog

The Bolt EV is also known to max out at 50kW.
The Kona is reported to have a max charge amperage of 200A according to a Hyundai Engineer https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1116041_5-things-about-the-2019-hyundai-kona-electric-we-learned-at-the-ny-auto-show with a max charge rate of 80kW. Compared to the Ioniq's max of 173A for around 70kW.

They are clearly using a different BMS Charging profile for the Bolt and Kona, so it's way to early to start saying they will have the same profile based on on one video of a 75%to80% charge.

More info on Bolt's capabilities, apparently it will request a max 150A seehttps://www.hybridcars.com/chevy-bolt-ev-can-charge-at-55-kw/

FriendsEV

liamog wrote: »

The Bolt EV is also known to max out at 50kW.
The Kona is reported to have a max charge amperage of 200A according to a Hyundai Engineer https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1116041_5-things-about-the-2019-hyundai-kona-electric-we-learned-at-the-ny-auto-show with a max charge rate of 80kW. Compared to the Ioniq's max of 173A for around 70kW.

They are clearly using a different BMS Charging profile for the Bolt and Kona, so it's way to early to start saying they will have the same profile based on on one video of a 75%to80% charge.

Bolt max charge rate is also 80kW

BMS might be different but if battery chemistry is the same, they are going to protect battery from degradation warranty issues by tapering it too

https://insideevs.com/chevrolet-bolt-ev-equipped-with-80-kw-dc-fast-charging-owners-manual-now-online/

liamog

FriendsEV wrote: »

Bolt max charge rate is also 80kW

BMS might be different but if battery chemistry is the same, they are going to protect battery from degradation warranty issues by tapering it too

https://insideevs.com/chevrolet-bolt-ev-equipped-with-80-kw-dc-fast-charging-owners-manual-now-online/

The manual refers to connecting it to an 80kW capable charger, however when tested, as per the link in my post, the car sent a max request for 150A. The Ioniq similarly claims to support 100kW chargers, it does, by requesting 173A (as per Hyundai Engineer) and receiving up-to 70kW again confirmed by Hyundai engineer, and evidenced by multiple video's of the Ioniq charging at around 67kW.


There is no video evidence of the Bolt EV or Ampera E making it above 50kW at any of the over 50kW chargers. I wonder why that could be, I believe the guys who tested the car received accurate results compared to the manual.

GM limited the battery to 50 KW DC because there are little to no dc chargers above 50 Kw. According to GM that is.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

GM limited the battery to 50 KW DC because there are little to no dc chargers above 50 Kw. According to GM that is.

And in reality it tops out at around 43kW, and begins tapering before 60%


https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1109714_more-details-on-fast-charging-rate-in-2017-chevy-bolt-ev-electric-car

FriendsEV

ELM327 wrote: »

And in reality it tops out at around 43kW, and begins tapering before 60%


https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1109714_more-details-on-fast-charging-rate-in-2017-chevy-bolt-ev-electric-car

What LG chemistry does the I-Pace use?

They are talking about 150kW charging after an update soon

Hell of alot quicker than what they have out in LG Evs now

You get what you pay for I suppose

Shefwedfan

LotharIngum wrote: »

I was number three in line at a charger in Ennis a few weeks ago and two more people arrived waiting for it. Quietly the woman approached the second in line and asked could she get in instead of him because she was in a hurry (like us all) and he let her in. He then presumed he was getting in ahead of myself and the other car after giving up his place.
Big fight. I nearly had to call the police.
I dread going on a long trip in an EV nowadays. ITs not range anxiety anymore, its FCP anxiety instead. A long trip in an EV just takes too long when there is queuing at chargers.

and people ask me why I never use the public system......

Larger batteries of the same chemistry can charge faster, larger batteries in general can normally charge faster depending on internal resistance.

All batteries are a compromise and for now the objective is energy density over power density that is the ability to store energy rather than receive and deliver which =power.

Some favour cycle life over both energy and power density etc. Can't yet have it all.

Shefwedfan

http://www.hyundai-blog.com/kona-ev-us-release-date/

Will be 192 plate based on this

That is disappointing

DrPhilG

Shefwedfan wrote: »

http://www.hyundai-blog.com/kona-ev-us-release-date/

Will be 192 plate based on this

That is disappointing

Hyundai are saying on sale summer 18.   Dealers are saying they're expecting demos by August.  

That article (going by the comments) is from September 2017.

Why do you think we're looking at 192 plates?

Not necessarily saying you're wrong by the way and I certainly wouldn't take a dealer's word as gospel, just curious about why you're expecting 192 based on an article saying it's available for 182.

FriendsEV

DrPhilG wrote: »

Hyundai are saying on sale summer 18.   Dealers are saying they're expecting demos by August.  

That article (going by the comments) is from September 2017.

Why do you think we're looking at 192 plates?

Not necessarily saying you're wrong by the way and I certainly wouldn't take a dealer's word as gospel, just curious about why you're expecting 192 based on an article saying it's available for 182.

Seems likely

They are only making 600 a week or someting pathetic like that

Korea alone will take that amount

They knew demand was there but don't give a **** like all big auto with regard electric

Just as it seems Evs are nearly here, disappointment comes again and again

ELM327

FriendsEV wrote: »

Seems likely

They are only making 600 a week or someting pathetic like that

Korea alone will take that amount

They knew demand was there but don't give a **** like all big auto with regard electric

Just as it seems Evs are nearly here, disappointment comes again and again

+1
It will be like the Ioniq. Few lucky ones can buy them, the rest can't.
Demand exceeds supply, they either can't or won't build enough


I would like to think it's cant but it's probably won't

liamog

Production is around 100 higher per week than it was for the Ioniq, the Ioniq was available in Jan '17 here after a Korean release in Summer '16.
I still expect 191 to have the first cars available.

Re demand, remember the current driver of electrification is fleet emissions, the technology is changing fast and we're barely hitting the true MVP for an un-subsidised BEV.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=106710959

Hyundai are believed to be investing in their own battery manufacturing plant. This coming online along with the fleet emission changes will see BEVs become a much bigger percentage.

Shefwedfan

DrPhilG wrote: »

Hyundai are saying on sale summer 18. Dealers are saying they're expecting demos by August.

That article (going by the comments) is from September 2017.

Why do you think we're looking at 192 plates?

Not necessarily saying you're wrong by the way and I certainly wouldn't take a dealer's word as gospel, just curious about why you're expecting 192 based on an article saying it's available for 182.

It was posted on another forum and I didnt proof read 100%......:-)

Could be more down to battery supply and cost rather than Hyundai's lack of interest in electrics, if it can make a decent profit they will sell it if not then it will be a low volume EV. At least BMW admitted that current Gen batteries are not profitable enough, they will make profit but just not filthy profit lol.

FriendsEV

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Could be more down to battery supply and cost rather than Hyundai's lack of interest in electrics, if it can make a decent profit they will sell it if not then it will be a low volume EV. At least BMW admitted that current Gen batteries are not profitable enough, they will make profit but just not filthy profit lol.

If Hyundai like all autogiants went to LG, Samsung, Catl etc with an order of 1,000,000 battery packs @ 8,000e each, you can be god damn sure they would fill that 8 billion euro order

Instead they are going with poxy 30,000 battery packs orders, not worth a piss to battery giants

There's no demand for electrics like ICE and ICE make tonnes of profit so why bother ? sure, they'll make xxxx electrics to say they care.

DrPhilG

UK prices out, from www.speakev.com...



Those are pre-grant prices so drop £4.5k off.

Dglflyer

bad link

DrPhilG

Sorry, try this.

denismc

So just over 32k for the highest spec EV vs 26k for the highest spec petrol ( there doesn't seem to be any diesel available in Ireland yet).
It would take a few years for me to make up the price difference in fuel savings but it's doable.

FriendsEV

DrPhilG wrote: »

Sorry, try this.

Cheapest 64kWh will be high 38-40k then?

Not too bad

Expected higher with the demand

liamog

Those are the pre grant UK prices.

Ioniq Premium UK is £29,845.00 pre grant, in Ireland it's €28,995.
In theory that means the after grant price in Ireland should be below €33,995, add up to €1,500 for delivery.

It's still looking like a €35,000 car. So far the EU prices have been pretty consistent.

Even more interesting, could mean an entry level 39kWh below the Ioniq price!

FriendsEV

liamog wrote: »

Those are the pre grant UK prices.

Ioniq Premium UK is £29,845.00 pre grant, in Ireland it's €28,995.
In theory that means the after grant price in Ireland should be below €33,995, add up to €1,500 for delivery.

It's still looking like a €35,000 car. So far the EU prices have been pretty consistent.

Even more interesting, could mean an entry level 39kWh below the Ioniq price!

Nice

I take it all back Hyundai

Give me that 64kWh/200bhp/400km EV for 35k

Seriously if its 35k or under I am buying

Great value

positron

This is painfully slow progress though. Saw a picture on Reddit yesterday of truck load of Kona EVs being delivered (to dealerships I presume) somewhere in Norway. They have been taking orders for a while. Someone in Canada has put deposit down for Kona EV. Here we still have no word on pricing. Is this all because we are a small market and and a right-hand driving one at that..?

ELM327

denismc wrote: »

So just over 32k for the highest spec EV vs 26k for the highest spec petrol ( there doesn't seem to be any diesel available in Ireland yet).
It would take a few years for me to make up the price difference in fuel savings but it's doable.

Where do you get that?
The paddy spec ones will be around 35k here based on the UK prices above

Shefwedfan

SO we think the 64kWh Premium will be circa 35k?

liamog

Shefwedfan wrote: »

SO we think the 64kWh Premium will be circa 35k?

To quote the magic 8 ball.

All signs point to yes

Round Cable

Shefwedfan wrote: »

SO we think the 64kWh Premium will be circa 35k?

It's looking good, matching up the German and UK specs and adding Irish VAT and VRT, less incentives are shown in the table below:



Looks like the base (very high spec) 64kWh model will be between €35,000 and €36,000.