Hyundai Kona EV pre orders open

ELM327

Considering the petrol starts from 21k, and 26k for the premium, that's a hell of a markup

€10k buys a lot of petrol !

Round Cable

ELM327 wrote: »

Considering the petrol starts from 21k, and 26k for the premium, that's a hell of a markup

€10k buys a lot of petrol !

It's 10k more across each of the spec levels alright.

Still if you drive the average 20k km per year that would be a fuel saving of €1,700 per year. Throw in tax and maintenance savings and you are looking at about €2,000. So if you keep the car for 5 years, you are in profit over the petrol model, plus you have a way better car to drive during that period.

ELM327

Yes it probably makes sense from a TCO point of view.
But so did the Ioniq, the leaf, the zoe etc

And not many people bought them. Irish people (and most people generally) prefer to buy the cheaper product in a comparison even if it costs more in actuality. Otherwise we'd all be driving EV already. But hey I'm not complaining!

FriendsEV

Round Cable wrote: »

It's 10k more across each of the spec levels alright.

Still if you drive the average 20k km per year that would be a fuel saving of €1,700 per year. Throw in tax and maintenance savings and you are looking at about €2,000. So if you keep the car for 5 years, you are in profit over the petrol model, plus you have a way better car to drive during that period.

True the average driver is not going to save any money but will have a far more powerful car

200bhp Kona EV is quick

This car for somone doing crazy miles like 50k per year would be amazing

Hyundai 5 year unlimited mileage with a 400km EV has crazy potential

If I was a fleet manager I would be getting my sales reps these

grogi

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes it probably makes sense from a TCO point of view.
But so did the Ioniq, the leaf, the zoe etc

And not many people bought them. Irish people (and most people generally) prefer to buy the cheaper product in a comparison even if it costs more in actuality. Otherwise we'd all be driving EV already. But hey I'm not complaining!

People didn't buy EV because of range/charger anxiety. They might not be actually affected by it, but they don't want to feel that anxiety. With the longer range EV that changes and the demand for EV will increase.

While range with 24 kWh would cover 75% needs of 75% of people, 30 kWh brings that up to 80%. 40 kWh would cover 95% needs of 95% of people... 60 kWh is probably in the range of 99% of 99%...

What's more, the new ways of financing, PCP especially, changes the way people look at the cost of owning a car. Right now they more directly see how it actually costs them per month and EVs might seem more appealing... Uncertainty of future values doesn't help here unfortunately.

400 km range, I'd say maybe at 80-100 Km/h but not at 120 Km/h and beyond, probably 20 Kwh/100 Km at 120 Kph.

The EPA test is a good indicator of what can be achieved in finer weather and slower commuter driving, but winter and 120 Kmh could see 21 or 22 Kwh/100 kms.

21 Kwh/100 km would give 285 Kms to 0% so by maybe 260 Kms you'd want to be close to a charger, but that's not bad at that speed, possible better in winter.

Going to be difficult to restrain 200 hp.

Can't wait to do a test myself.

My plan is not to do a complete range test but to drive about 100 Kms at 120 Km/h and then record the efficiency which will give me a good indication. Of course, not 100% of everyone's trip will be motorway only maybe the last 30-40 Kms could be 80-100 Km/h it will be good to compare to i3 and old leaf anyway for my own curiosity.

I hope it can put that 200 hp down much better than the Leaf 40 with 150 hp in the damp because that was hilarious altogether the lack of grip with those EC 300 tyres in damp and wet to downright dangerous, it made 0-100 Km/h feel like 20 seconds. But it was far better on dry roads but still not fantastic.

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

I hope it can put that 200 hp down much better than the Leaf 40 with 150 hp in the damp because that was hilarious altogether the lack of grip with those EC 300 tyres in damp and wet to downright dangerous, it made 0-100 Km/h feel like 20 seconds. But it was far better on dry roads but still not fantastic.

It will almost certainly spin the tires. Front wheel drive without much in the way of weight up front.
RWD (AWD on premium vehicles) is the way for EVs to go purely because the packaging/production advantages of FWD for combustion engines aren't present.
But you are almost always looking at dedicated EV platforms for that kind of forward thinking.

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

400 km range, I'd say maybe at 80-100 Km/h but not at 120

WLTP range is 470km. And it will probably be so efficient that it will actually easily do its EPA / WLTP range in real life (like Ioniq does - even in winter you get close)

Deleted User wrote: »

probably 20 Kwh/100 Km at 120 Kph.

I reckon that's a pretty good guess. 64/20 => 320km range at motorway speeds, that's good going.

denismc

ELM327 wrote: »

Where do you get that?
The paddy spec ones will be around 35k here based on the UK prices above

Sorry, I was talking in pounds

Dglflyer

Add in a blown head gasket or a worn clutch or two , and the other sundry items you never really think of when you buy a car and it will put a serious dent in that gap , plus oil is going up at the moment ( although I think this is more of a last hurah )

Dglflyer

This Kona should be able to bring you from top to bottom ( Derry to Cork ) on a single charge and from side to side ( Dublin to Galway ) without breaking a sweat, anything thing above 400km range in Ireland is pure gravy

unkel

Dglflyer wrote: »

Add in a blown head gasket or a worn clutch or two , and the other sundry items you never really think of when you buy a car and it will put a serious dent in that gap

Not the best examples

If you are mechanically sympathetic and watch your instruments, you won't blow a head gasket. Not even on a Rover K-series engine (I owned an old one for 5 years). And if you use your clutch properly, it will never need replacing.

But yeah I got your point

Let me add DPF, injectors, EGR, DMF, etc. etc. On an EV, the brake pads need replacing only maybe once every 5 years and the disks could very well last the life of the car. There basically is no servicing. My one year service of my EV cost €0.00. Next year I'll replace the cabin filter myself and I doubt the dealer would have the balls to ask for more than €0.00 for the service then. Car is under full bumper to bumper warranty for 5 years.

RedorDead

FriendsEV wrote: »

Nice

I take it all back Hyundai

Give me that 64kWh/200bhp/400km EV for 35k

Seriously if its 35k or under I am buying

Great value

I make the cheapest 64kw model landed price here (new import on uk prices) at €44k, then remove your grants and you have your net import price.

ELM327

€39k
Too expensive for a Hyundai, won't sell well here at all.

The cynic in me suggests thats their plan

Fermi

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-geneva-motor-show/hyundai-kona-electric-gets-sub-£25000-price

Dglflyer

Will admit , the head gasket may have been on me , but i had to put two clutches in a Volkswagen golf, never had this issue with any other car before or since

liamog

ELM327 wrote: »

€39k
Too expensive for a Hyundai, won't sell well here at all.

The cynic in me suggests thats their plan

Where are you getting the 39k from, we've continually shown the number is around 35k.

The SEAI grant plus VRT reduction of up to €5,000 is how it's ending up at around that mark

ELM327

liamog wrote: »

Where are you getting the 39k from, we've continually shown the number is around 35k.

The SEAI grant plus VRT reduction of up to €5,000 is how it's ending up at around that mark

The UK has a similar reduction of 5k already built in to their pricing, and don't have VRT.
So it's not quite as simple as taking the UK price and deducting 5k.


Interesting point to note.... if it's 35k there will be some small amount of VRT due. Is this the first mass market EV for that to happen?

DrPhilG

The official Hyundai release...

https://www.hyundai.news/uk/model-news/hyundai-motor-uk-announce-kona-electric-pricing-and-specifications

Interesting that they state high demand and low availability already.

grogi

ELM327 wrote: »

The UK has a similar reduction of 5k already built in to their pricing, and don't have VRT.
So it's not quite as simple as taking the UK price and deducting 5k.


Interesting point to note.... if it's 35k there will be some small amount of VRT due. Is this the first mass market EV for that to happen?

Top range Kona is 36300 GBP in UK. Taking that as basis:

Net price (without VAT of 20%, 1 GBP = €1.13): € 34200
VAT (23%): € 7850.00
OMSP (95% of RRP): € 46100.00
VRT (14% of OMSP): € 6450.00
RRP: € 48500.00

---

Minus €10k of grants

Price to pay here: €38500.00

ELM327

grogi wrote: »

Top range Kone is 36300 GBP in UK. Taking that as basis:

That is:
Net price (without VAT or 20%): € 34200
VAT: € 7850.00
OMSP: € 46100.00 (95% of RRP)
VRT: € 6450.00
RRP: € 48500.00

---

Minus €10k of grants

Price to pay here: €38500.00

I guess we'll see when they annouce it here
Is it confirmed they are bringing it here at all?

Silent Running

ELM327 wrote: »

I guess we'll see when they annouce it here
Is it confirmed they are bringing it here at all?

Yes, they are bringing it here, even the 64kWh. There was a briefing in Hyundai HQ during the week. November for demos, aiming towards deliveries for 191 reg.

liamog

I've been basiing the 35k Kona on a 64 Premium instead of a Premium SE.

Making the assumption that Hyundai Ireland dislike choices again.

grogi

liamog wrote: »

I've been basiing the 35k Kona on a 64 Premium instead of a Premium SE.

Making the assumption that Hyundai Ireland dislike choices again.

What's the UK price for the Premium spec? I'll do the maths...

liamog

£33,995 pre-grant.

You should do the same math on an Ioniq Premium (£29,845.00) to see how it aligns with the Irish post subsidy price of €28,995

grogi

liamog wrote: »

£33,995 pre-grant.

You should do the same math on an Ioniq Premium (£29,845.00) to see how it aligns with the Irish post subsidy price of €28,995

£ 33.995 -> € 35.465
£ 29.845 -> € 29.915

liamog

grogi wrote: »

£ 33.995 -> € 35.465
£ 29.845 -> € 29.915

With our hidden delivery charges thats about spot on for the Ioniq. Leaving us with a Premium 64kWh between 35 and 36.

Shefwedfan

What do we think price and range of 39kWh will be? The higher spec? Premium isn’t it?

DrPhilG

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What do we think price and range of 39kWh will be? The higher spec? Premium isn’t it?

In seriousness, who knows. The speculation and calculation I've seen suggests that it will be similar or slightly cheaper than the 40kWh Leaf which would make it excellent value (for those who can get hold of one).

Given that I was set to buy a L40 (before rapidgate was confirmed) I'd be tempted myself. But if the 64kWh is only a few thousand more I'd be mad not to look for the bigger one.

Shefwedfan

DrPhilG wrote: »

In seriousness, who knows. The speculation and calculation I've seen suggests that it will be similar or slightly cheaper than the 40kWh Leaf which would make it excellent value (for those who can get hold of one).

Given that I was set to buy a L40 (before rapidgate was confirmed) I'd be tempted myself. But if the 64kWh is only a few thousand more I'd be mad not to look for the bigger one.

If the 39kWh is good value it could do as a good city run around. I haven’t seen the estimations apart from the 64kWh prices, would be interested in seeing

FriendsEV

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If the 39kWh is good value it could do as a good city run around. I haven’t seen the estimations apart from the 64kWh prices, would be interested in seeing

It would have to be alot cheaper, bit pointless with such a small battery imo

Down 50% range and bhp compared to 64kWh

Can't understand how battery tech is still so crap and expensive

Toyota had a 27kWh nimh battery in its Rav 4, 21 years ago

Hyundai is still flogging an Ioniq with a 28kWh battery

No new battery tech on they way for another decade either

DrPhilG

I thought re-reg posting was against the rules?

Shefwedfan

DrPhilG wrote: »

I thought re-reg posting was against the rules?

But correct me if wrong the other accounts are not locked or banned.

I think the rules are if your account gets locked/banned you can’t reregister.....

This is just a person who trolls, once found out and people stop listening they create new account and start again.....

The original Thierry account said he/she wouldn’t come back till 2020 when battery tech was better.....we see post above complaining about battery not available for another decade?

I wasn't aware Thierry got banned ? as in account deleted by admin ban ?

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

I wasn't aware Thierry got banned ? as in account deleted by admin ban ?

No Thierry didn’t get banned

He/she posted they would post in this forum till 2020 when the battery tech was better, or something along those lines

Then nothing till Y2K whatever account showed up

FriendsEV

How am I trolling?

Just stating the obvious

I love EV's but batteries are still a crap form of energy storage, won't always be

ELM327

FriendsEV wrote: »

How am I trolling?

Just stating the obvious

I love EV's but batteries are still a crap form of energy storage, won't always be

Thierry, Y2K86, FriendsEV and no matter however many handles you pick...


You're "trolling" because you just latch on to a thought or idea, and defend it when it makes no sense.


No progression since the rav4 EV? Really? That was a NiMH battery, where you had to mollycoddle it to get it to work at all. I suggest you go watch some of the Transport Evolved episodes with Nikki Gordon Bloomfield. They had one for a while and had endless trouble with it.

Even the crap in the L40 these days is better in terms of usability. Now I love the 90's rav4 EV, and the ford ranger EV and if I win the lotto some day I will buy one of each and recondition them.

But to say there's no progress is quite frankly ridiculous.

FriendsEV

ELM327 wrote: »

Thierry, Y2K86, FriendsEV and no matter however many handles you pick...


You're "trolling" because you just latch on to a thought or idea, and defend it when it makes no sense.


No progression since the rav4 EV? Really? That was a NiMH battery, where you had to mollycoddle it to get it to work at all. I suggest you go watch some of the Transport Evolved episodes with Nikki Gordon Bloomfield. They had one for a while and had endless trouble with it.

Even the crap in the L40 these days is better in terms of usability. Now I love the 90's rav4 EV, and the ford ranger EV and if I win the lotto some day I will buy one of each and recondition them.

But to say there's no progress is quite frankly ridiculous.

Think you made my point with L40

Dglflyer

http://www.solidenergysystems.com/

These guys are trying to double the range , starting with drones this year...

They promised those drone batteries last spring (I think) by the end of 2017. Hopefully they or some other company will get some products out soon.

Hmm, they are claiming that they already manufacture 5000 cells a month, limited of course, but maybe the breakthrough is just about here... Good news if so.

FriendsEV

Dglflyer wrote: »

http://www.solidenergysystems.com/

These guys are trying to double the range , starting with drones this year...

We will see

Wouldn't bank on it

Storedot looks promising too, but years off as well imo

liamog

Things that are currently known about the Kona Electric.

1. A Hyundai engineer reported it was capable of charging at 200A.
2. Based on a vehicle in Germany at 75% the battery voltage was 382.5V
3. Between 75% and 80% the vehicle appeared to charge at 24kW

Based on this post http://www.mykiasoulev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=565&sid=cb7beac1e9d88e433413676177e3e631&start=10#p8043

It appears that LG Chem have a choice of cells, they are all 60Ah and the same dimensions but the chemistry is optimised for different scenarios.
Energy Density appears to be the same between all 3 so the choice will be Power Density vs Cycles.

FriendsEV

Autocar has price under 30k in UK after grant

Bit disappointing to read power dies off after 65mph, then again even Teslas have that problem too

Its surely going to be under 35k here

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/hyundai/kona/103973/new-hyundai-kona-electric-2018-uk-review

Power falling off above 100 Kph is by design only, manufacturers probably think that most people will drive below 120 Km/h most of the time so they probably think , why have more power available at the top end .

Motor , gearing, ECU dictate the outcome. They can just as easily have more power at the mid and top if they want which I'd probably prefer for over taking and things like that.

creedp

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Power falling off above 100 Kph is by design only, manufacturers probably think that most people will drive below 120 Km/h most of the time so they probably think , why have more power available at the top end .

Motor , gearing, ECU dictate the outcome. They can just as easily have more power at the mid and top if they want which I'd probably prefer for over taking and things like that.

Agree I don't like the lack of top end power in the Leaf for overtaking. Disappointing that the Kona will be the same given it has significantly more power and range. This characteristic of EVs eminds me of my 1st car, a 1987 1Ltr Starlet with 4 gears and approx 90mph top speed! Still have clear memories of the many times I got stuck trying to overtake trucks and had to abandon with tail between legs and slightly pink complexion!!!!

The 40 Kwh will have no problem over taking and it's pretty pokey on the motorway , much more than the 24 /30 Kwh.

The Leaf feels far better at higher speeds because of the lack of grip at slower speeds but I would be very concerned over taking something at slower speeds in damp with the lack of grip it could be very dangerous.

i3 is pokey enough too at higher speeds. I'd like to try the S version.

It's a shame the Ioniq only has 115 Hp , it really feels slow compared to the 40 Kwh Leaf, to be honest it probably has enough power for a FWD EV.

Hyundai wanted the Kona to use more of that 200 Hp low down, probably so it will impress auto journalists 0-100 Km/h and it will be fast off the mark depending on grip but people get too excited about 0-100 and not so concerned about over taking power until they try over take lol.

Without a gear box something has to give, low, mid or top end power or just give an ev 300-400 hp so that it doesn't matter any more.

FriendsEV

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The 40 Kwh will have no problem over taking and it's pretty pokey on the motorway , much more than the 24 /30 Kwh.

The Leaf feels far better at higher speeds because of the lack of grip at slower speeds but I would be very concerned over taking something at slower speeds in damp with the lack of grip it could be very dangerous.

i3 is pokey enough too at higher speeds. I'd like to try the S version.

It's a shame the Ioniq only has 115 Hp , it really feels slow compared to the 40 Kwh Leaf, to be honest it probably has enough power for a FWD EV.

Hyundai wanted the Kona to use more of that 200 Hp low down, probably so it will impress auto journalists 0-100 Km/h and it will be fast off the mark depending on grip but people get too excited about 0-100 and not so concerned about over taking power until they try over take lol.

Without a gear box something has to give, low, mid or top end power or just give an ev 300-400 hp so that it doesn't matter any more.

The Kona 0-150 is about the same as a new automatic BMW 320D

17-18s or so

Not amazing, but pretty good imo

Kona weights like 1700kg, usual 200bhp cars like warm hatch Focus, Golf etc are 1300-1400kg

Thats another explanation for its underwhelming performance for 200bhp

Still 200 Hp EV is better than a 1.6 Diesel you'd find in similar cars. They could have done it Renault style and install a 90 Hp motor which is what they'd most likely do lol.

Besides, FWD cars have their limitation so it's probably enough power to the front wheels with the instant torque of a motor.

The Kona EV is definitely a step in the right direction regardless. 200 HP is way better than 100 Hp no matter how you look at it.

I just wish they'd offer performance models for those who want more power, 4wd etc. I'd trade gadgets and leather for that.

It will be interesting to see how the Kona handles the back roads.

grogi

Deleted User wrote: »

I just wish they'd offer performance models for those who want more power, 4wd etc. I'd trade gadgets and leather for that.

But if regular 64 kWh Kona is too expensive for a Hyundai, a performance 4x4 would be toooooo expensive...

ELM327

Saw 2 of them today (ice ones) in the work carpark. Not as nice in person as I would have expected. Looks like a condensed range rover evoque. It's too flat or something.
And it will only look worse with the batteries hanging out the bottom of the 64kWh