Hyundai Kona EV pre orders open

dionsiseire

I'm hearing 38 due into Ireland in October, 300 in January.

Padraig Mor

I wouldn't be overly harsh on the dealers in this case (and I normally am). I can't claim to know the ins and outs but I doubt it's as simple as just ordering a load of different specs etc. I'd imagine there is huge demand internally within Hyundai dealerships for them - for RHD cars, the UK of course will get the bulk with Paddy left with a small allocation. It might be the case that Hyundai Ireland could only get discount X from the distributor by ordering all their allocation in one spec. I'd also imagine that a higher spec would be tipping north of €40k after incentives which Hyundai Ireland may regard as simply too high to attract enough sales.

KCross

Isn't the main reason we get Paddy spec on most cars is because of VRT. The importers strip the cars back in spec to reduce the RRP thus keeping VRT at a minimum?

The Leaf was an exception to that where they didn't need to strip it back because there was no VRT to begin with and hence the UK and Ireland versions have been identical.

That was my understanding of it and since the Kona is already attracting VRT (because its over €35k) adding all the bells and whistles would just drive the price up further.

Ideally we would have a choice of spec and let us pick the one that we desire but as PadraigMor has said supply is short and Hyundai Ireland probably got a better deal by buying X number of one spec.

Old diesel

Padraig Mor wrote: »

I wouldn't be overly harsh on the dealers in this case (and I normally am). I can't claim to know the ins and outs but I doubt it's as simple as just ordering a load of different specs etc. I'd imagine there is huge demand internally within Hyundai dealerships for them - for RHD cars, the UK of course will get the bulk with Paddy left with a small allocation. It might be the case that Hyundai Ireland could only get discount X from the distributor by ordering all their allocation in one spec. I'd also imagine that a higher spec would be tipping north of €40k after incentives which Hyundai Ireland may regard as simply too high to attract enough sales.

Should be possible to do the following...

Allocation of say 300 cars. Let some of them be open to customer choice on options.

An EV without adaptive cruise for example is borderline unbelievable if you are looking at EVs as the future.

Tbh offering option packs or a higher trim option solves the issue.

Just like you do on non EVs

Old diesel

If we look at VAG they get the balance fairly right.

You can buy your bog standard Golf with no issues.

However if you want a nicer Golf you can have one - and if theres no nicer Golf in Ireland in stock - you can actually have one ordered for YOU from the factory in Germany.

Proper order - and VW are under exact same VRT difficulties as Hyundai

Padraig Mor

Old diesel wrote: »

Should be possible to do the following...

Allocation of say 300 cars. Let some of them be open to customer choice on options.

An EV without adaptive cruise for example is borderline unbelievable if you are looking at EVs as the future.

Tbh offering option packs or a higher trim option solves the issue.

Just like you do on non EVs

Y'see people's wants differ too. I couldn't give two hoots about adaptive cruise control (although I do have it) - in contrast to someone here the other day, I'd 100% take leather seats over it!

Option packs would of course be ideal but, as above, I suspect Hyundai Ireland had little choice but to order all at one spec, and picked what they thought the largest number of people would want.

KCross

Old diesel wrote: »

Should be possible to do the following...

Allocation of say 300 cars. Let some of them be open to customer choice on options.

An EV without adaptive cruise for example is borderline unbelievable if you are looking at EVs as the future.

Tbh offering option packs or a higher trim option solves the issue.

Just like you do on non EVs

But the issue is that if you let customers decide the options you will be waiting 12mths for your order, maybe more.

This isn't like buying a Ford Focus where they will build your car to order and you'll have it in a couple of months. The lead time here is huge so the importer has to decide up front what spec(s) to bring in.

Hyundai Ireland had to put in an order for their full allocation for the year.
When you are only getting a few hundred there would be no major incentive for them to be offering multiple trim levels. I can understand why they have done it the way they have.

Adaptive cruise should be on it alright though. Has that been confirmed. Maybe it is in it as part of "Cruise control with speed limiter" just that they haven't listed it as adaptive?
EDIT: In the UK site all 3 trims have adaptive cruise control. They call it "Cruise Control - Smart Adaptive Speed Control With Stop And Go Function". The Irish site just says "Cruise Control With Speed Limiter". I'd bet the Irish one has adaptive but an email to Hyundai needed to confirm.

eagerv

Many manufacturers bring cars into Ireland with the same spec as the rest of Europe.


Eg Honda. We bought a S-GT Spec, only difference being in name. Sport Plus in UK and other parts of Europe.



It's almost as though Hyundai Ireland don't want to sell the Kona EV.


I'm sure most prospective EV buyers would want the best available tech. Strange an EV having Halogen headlights, you would think LED's with their saving in power would be worthwhile. And adaptive cruise surely makes sense in an EV.



Perhaps they think we will be swayed by the "luxury" of the Vinyl seats.:)

KCross

eagerv wrote: »

Many manufacturers bring cars into Ireland with the same spec as the rest of Europe.


Eg Honda. We bought a S-GT Spec, only difference being in name. Sport Plus in UK and other parts of Europe.

Im sure they do, but are they the same price here as in UK and the rest of Europe? I bet not? The VRT drives the price up so you have to judge your market and decide at what point is the product too expensive.

At the high end of the market you'll get away with leaving the car fully loaded but not at the price conscious lower end.

eagerv wrote: »

It's almost as though Hyundai Ireland don't want to sell the Kona EV.

I dont think so. They know they will sell these "instantly". They figured that out quickly with the Ioniq!

They didn't realise the Ioniq would be snapped up so quickly and even offered very generous scrappage deals. No sign of those on the Kona EV!

Old diesel

eagerv wrote: »

Many manufacturers bring cars into Ireland with the same spec as the rest of Europe.


Eg Honda. We bought a S-GT Spec, only difference being in name. Sport Plus in UK and other parts of Europe.



It's almost as though Hyundai Ireland don't want to sell the Kona EV.


I'm sure most prospective EV buyers would want the best available tech. Strange an EV having Halogen headlights, you would think LED's with their saving in power would be worthwhile. And adaptive cruise surely makes sense in an EV.



Perhaps they think we will be swayed by the "luxury" of the Vinyl seats.:)

This sums it up much better then I can.

It's like whoever is managing the Kona EV in Ireland hasn't properly looked at what the EV customer base actually wants.

In the great scheme of things maybe none of this matters. But you'd expect new EV buyers to do homework into the new technology.

They will read UK drivers talking about how fabulous some cool feature is. And think yes that's awesome.

And then find its not even an option over here. Not great.

It's ultimately an expensive car to get into for what it is in terms of vehicle size

Compare with what you get in an ICE of similar type and price level. An Ateca for example.

And actually the Ateca is pretty much the next size up.

Having a basic spec makes the EV look expensive.

eagerv

KCross wrote: »

Im sure they do, but are they the same price here as in UK and the rest of Europe? I bet not? The VRT drives the price up so you have to judge your market and decide at what point is the product too expensive.

At the high end of the market you'll get away with leaving the car fully loaded but not at the price conscious lower end.





I dont think so. They know they will sell these "instantly". They figured that out quickly with the Ioniq!

They didn't realise the Ioniq would be snapped up so quickly and even offered very generous scrappage deals. No sign of those on the Kona EV!

Not that much of a difference surprisingly with my Honda, considering the car is loaded with desirable(To me) equipment. Uk £26,500. Ireland €30,750.


I agree they will have no problem selling their small allocation of Konas.

KCross

eagerv wrote: »

Not that much of a difference surprisingly with my Honda, considering the car is loaded with desirable(To me) equipment. Uk £26,500. Ireland €30,750.

Well then, maybe it's combination of wanting to milk it and keeping the price in check. They know they will sell easily so they strip it back on options and maintain the price to what they think the market will bear. That's business I guess.... being a small market goes against us.

Silent Running

For me, lack of adaptive cruise and LED headlights would be deal breakers. Leather and HUD I can live without, but would be nice to have.

Shefwedfan

Has it been confirmed it won't have adaptive cruise control?

I can't see how it can't when even the base UK model comes with it

ewj1978

I'm personally disappointed with the spec and pricing for said spec.
Will wait till after Christmas and brexit or no brexit look at bringing one in from the UK.
IMHO sterling will tank with a No deal Brexit and savings will be had.

Round Cable

ewj1978 wrote: »

I'm personally disappointed with the spec and pricing for said spec.
Will wait till after Christmas and brexit or no brexit look at bringing one in from the UK.
IMHO sterling will tank with a No deal Brexit and savings will be had.

Would importing a car not get more complicated after a no deal Brexit?

Would there be additional fees or tariffs?

KCross

ewj1978 wrote: »

I'm personally disappointed with the spec and pricing for said spec.
Will wait till after Christmas and brexit or no brexit look at bringing one in from the UK.
IMHO sterling will tank with a No deal Brexit and savings will be had.

One fly in that ointment is that the UK will no longer be in the EU so you could find you have to pay additional taxes to import from there.

e.g. Vat.... at the moment you generally dont have to worry about VAT when importing from the UK as you will already have paid UK Vat and you are only obliged to pay VAT once across the EU but once the UK are outside the EU you will likely have to pay Irish Vat on import.... that 23% extra there will make importing a lot less palatable.

There could also be additional customs and excise duties... who knows. I wouldn't bank on cheap cars being possible from the UK once they leave the EU.

Silent Running

I think there's going to be a window of opportunity. In February and March, the demo's will go on sale at the dealers(2019 reg). They can be bought as European new cars and imported before the shlt hits the fan.

DrPhilG

KCross wrote: »

at the moment you generally dont have to worry about VAT when importing from the UK as you will already have paid UK Vat and you are only obliged to pay VAT once across the EU but once the UK are outside the EU you will likely have to pay Irish Vat on import.

But any Kona imports will be cutting it fine to make it in as second hand. Deliveries are only starting this week and next and dealers are not getting demos so there won't be many (or any) Konas available second hand or ex demo before April.

Which means they'll be classed as new and then you do have to worry about VAT since the Irish government don't seem to give a crap that you've already paid some of the required VAT.

There will be another two years of business as usual until March 2021 after the Brexit regardless what happens with the negotiations.

Old diesel

samih wrote: »

There will be another two years of business as usual until March 2021 after the Brexit regardless what happens with the negotiations.

The transition deal depends on a deal being done on the withdrawal agreement.

Talks on the latter are currently in deadlock over the Irish border issue and avoiding a hard border.

80sDiesel

And here is another one into the mix.

If there is a no deal, that means that UK car imports will be more expensive so current secondhand stock (those electric cars not produced in the UK )may actually become more expensive.

ELM327

80sDiesel wrote: »

And here is another one into the mix.

If there is a no deal, that means that UK car imports will be more expensive so current secondhand stock (those electric cars not produced in the UK )may actually become more expensive.

If there's no deal and WTO tariffs come in then that is a certainty.
You'd have to pay 20% duties and excise, and vat, and VRT on cars from UK.

Old diesel

ELM327 wrote: »

80sDiesel wrote: »

And here is another one into the mix.

If there is a no deal, that means that UK car imports will be more expensive so current secondhand stock (those electric cars not produced in the UK )may actually become more expensive.

If there's no deal and WTO tariffs come in then that is a certainty.
You'd have to pay 20% duties and excise, and vat, and VRT on cars from UK.

Who gets the the 20 percent duties and excuse.

UK imports have been such beautifully easy money for the Govt so I wonder if the end outcome will be a reduction in VRT so that the cost you pay the state to import a car stays the same.

But some of the cost is now duties and excise while the VRT bit is smaller.

If UK imports stop due to extra charges then the income Govt gets is ZERO.

Better to collect smaller VRT if you are the state rather then zero.

daheff

Old diesel wrote: »

Who gets the the 20 percent duties and excuse.

UK imports have been such beautifully easy money for the Govt so I wonder if the end outcome will be a reduction in VRT so that the cost you pay the state to import a car stays the same.

But some of the cost is now duties and excise while the VRT bit is smaller.

If UK imports stop due to extra charges then the income Govt gets is ZERO.

Better to collect smaller VRT if you are the state rather then zero.

but the number of new car sales will zoom again....so Govt will get their pound of flesh income from that

Old diesel

Although on a 35 k car the duties and excise at 20 percent of 35 k will be 7 k.

Silent Running

DrPhilG wrote: »

But any Kona imports will be cutting it fine to make it in as second hand. Deliveries are only starting this week and next and dealers are not getting demos so there won't be many (or any) Konas available second hand or ex demo before April.

Which means they'll be classed as new and then you do have to worry about VAT since the Irish government don't seem to give a crap that you've already paid some of the required VAT.

Remember our old friend VAT 411. You buy it VAT free and pay the VAT here. UK Dealers seem to put their demo cars for sale very shortly after they register them.

DrPhilG

Silent Running wrote: »

Remember our old friend VAT 411. You buy it VAT free and pay the VAT here. UK Dealers seem to put their demo cars for sale very shortly after they register them.

1 - Hyundai dealers are not getting Kona demos at all. If they do, they won't be selling them in a hurry as they are in such short supply. Kia will probably be similar.

2 - I've already asked a UK dealer about form 411. They will only apply that to a car being sold unregistered and for immediate export. If you do that, you can't claim the UK grant OR the Irish one. Only other option is to pay the Irish VAT AS WELL and then claim the UK vat back.

Silent Running

DrPhilG wrote: »

1 - Hyundai dealers are not getting Kona demos at all. If they do, they won't be selling them in a hurry as they are in such short supply. Kia will probably be similar.

2 - I've already asked a UK dealer about form 411. They will only apply that to a car being sold unregistered and for immediate export. If you do that, you can't claim the UK grant OR the Irish one. Only other option is to pay the Irish VAT AS WELL and then claim the UK vat back.

Irish dealers are getting demos, no reason UK ones won't.

The grant is claimed by the garage on registration as a demo. That's factored into the price you pay.

That's total bull about the VAT 411 process. They can sell the demo registered, without VAT. It has been done by at least 1 member here on an Ioniq.

irishgrover

DrPhilG wrote: »

2 - I've already asked a UK dealer about form 411. They will only apply that to a car being sold unregistered and for immediate export. If you do that, you can't claim the UK grant OR the Irish one. Only other option is to pay the Irish VAT AS WELL and then claim the UK vat back.

Just to be clear, their decision on that (ie only doing it on unregistered cars) is their own decision on what they are / are no willing to do, and has nothing to do with the law with reagards to filling out 411 and receiving a 0% VAT invoice. Other dealers are happy to facilitate this as it is very legal, above board, and really takes no additional effort on behalf of the dealer.

DrPhilG

Silent Running wrote: »

Irish dealers are getting demos, no reason UK ones won't.

The grant is claimed by the garage on registration as a demo. That's factored into the price you pay.

That's total bull about the VAT 411 process. They can sell the demo registered, without VAT. It has been done by at least 1 member here on an Ioniq.

UK dealers have all been told they're not getting one. Hyundai were supposed to be organising a tour of the UK with one demo that dealers could book a visit from.

The dealer I spoke to in the North said the only reason they would have one available was because a staff member bought one and was happy to let people have a look.

Silent Running

DrPhilG wrote: »

UK dealers have all been told they're not getting one. Hyundai were supposed to be organising a tour of the UK with one demo that dealers could book a visit from.

The dealer I spoke to in the North said the only reason they would have one available was because a staff member bought one and was happy to let people have a look.

That sounds bat-shit crazy to me. sounds like something dreamed up in the head of a "sales executive".

ewj1978

DrPhilG wrote: »

UK dealers have all been told they're not getting one. Hyundai were supposed to be organising a tour of the UK with one demo that dealers could book a visit from.

The dealer I spoke to in the North said the only reason they would have one available was because a staff member bought one and was happy to let people have a look.

That actually reminds me about when the new shape Alhambra came out. Asked in my local seat dealership about seeing one and he told me that there's ONE car doing the rounds of Ireland.
He called me when it came in and I went up to it.
Big mistake as they hadn't even valet'd it from previous and it was manky.
I just walked away.

eagerv

Gave local Hyundai dealer a call yesterday to ask a few questions re spec on Kona:


Adaptive cruise?
LED Headlights?
Ventilated seats?
Navigation on smaller 7" screen?


They were unable to answer any of my questions, saying they so far only have the same spec sheet as online. They said they would check and come back to me...

Old diesel

Having calmed down a bit over the spec....

I think if I was spending 35 to 40 k on a car this would still be VERY high on the list even with Paddy spec given that it has leather.

ewj1978

Called into my local dealer in the way home from work. He told me that his area manager said end of October/November for the demos.
Apart from that he had no info.

Top gear review: https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/opinion-case-hyundai-kona-ev?ab=1

Silent Running

...

Old diesel

New Kona owner reported in UK an issue with ecotricity chargers.

Tried 5 of them and the car appears to throw them into error.

It appears to start to charge and then stops.

Other networks he tried were fine (via Speak EV).

Reminds me of the old* hot battery Zoe issue where the cooling fans kicking in confuses the charger.

*Still an issue with the Portloise charger earlier this summer as it doesn't have the newer software

Shefwedfan

Old diesel wrote: »

Having calmed down a bit over the spec....

I think if I was spending 35 to 40 k on a car this would still be VERY high on the list even with Paddy spec given that it has leather.

Im not a happy chappie....Would I spend 35-40k on a car? Yes
Would I spend 35-40k on a new car and end up losing features which I have on existing car? No


Why would you "upgrade" your car to end up with less features? Ok you get more range, but range is not an issue I really have....so the business case is quickly going out window

Silent Running

OK, just had a long chat with a guy in Hyundai Ireland. I saw a white Kona EV on the road and decided to ask the questions we all want answers to. There is a lot of stuff to be decided about distribution methods and a lot of uncertainty about allocations of vehicles to Ireland.

I'll just give the questions I asked and the answers that were forthcoming.

Availability:
How many units for 2019? Maybe 100 in the first quarter.

Colour selection? Pretty much take what you can get. (paraphrasing)

Purchasing process? Likely online, then nominate the dealer you want to complete the handover. The dealer will have to come to an arrangement with you about your trade in. They will handle the warranty work.

Test drives? There will not be test drive cars in dealerships. It's not known yet how test drives will be handled.

Spec:
Headlights? Halogen

Cruise? Not adaptive. Regular cruise control and speed limiter.

Auto emergency braking? No.

LKAS? Yes.

Seats? Full leather.

Battery? 64kWh only.

We talked for ages. A very nice man and willing to chat. If there are any other questions, just ask and I'll see if we covered it in our talk.

So there you have it. My focus will now be on the Kia Niro. Halogen headlights FFS!! I'm too used to adaptive cruise now, I'd end up rear ending cars.

ELM327

Silent Running wrote: »

OK, just had a long chat with a guy in Hyundai Ireland. I saw a white Kona EV on the road and decided to ask the questions we all want answers to. There is a lot of stuff to be decided about distribution methods and a lot of uncertainty about allocations of vehicles to Ireland.

I'll just give the questions I asked and the answers that were forthcoming.

Availability:
How many units for 2019? Maybe 100 in the first quarter.

Colour selection? Pretty much take what you can get. (paraphrasing)

Purchasing process? Likely online, then nominate the dealer you want to complete the handover. The dealer will have to come to an arrangement with you about your trade in. They will handle the warranty work.

Test drives? There will not be test drive cars in dealerships. It's not known yet how test drives will be handled.

Spec:
Headlights? Halogen

Cruise? Not adaptive. Regular cruise control and speed limiter.

Auto emergency braking? No.

LKAS? Yes.

Seats? Full leather.

We talked for ages. A very nice man and willing to chat. If there are any other questions, just ask and I'll see if we covered it in our talk.

So there you have it. My focus will now be on the Kia Niro. Halogen headlights FFS!! I'm too used to adaptive cruise now, I'd end up rear ending cars.

Regular cruise + LKAS?? That's weird.
So it will literally keep you in the lane and plough you into a car infront? :D

Silent Running

ELM327 wrote: »

Regular cruise + LKAS?? That's weird.
So it will literally keep you in the lane and plough you into a car infront? :D

Yeah, it seems that way.

unkel

Silent Running wrote: »

Cruise? Not adaptive. Regular cruise control and speed limiter.

Auto emergency braking? No.

Well at least that is consistent. You can have either both or none.

What is beyond ridiculous is that a €35k 2019 budget Hyundai EV has neither and a 2016 Budget Hyundai EV had both as standard

Same for the halogen headlights :rolleyes:

liamog

Tbh from the specs shared, adaptive cruise control is the one thing that I will really miss.

Shefwedfan

ELM327 wrote: »

Regular cruise + LKAS?? That's weird.
So it will literally keep you in the lane and plough you into a car infront? :D

I would say the guy hasn't a clue....how could it have LKAS without it?

The base car in UK has it....I would guess the sales people just dont know

KCross

liamog wrote: »

Tbh from the specs shared, adaptive cruise control is the one thing that I will really miss.

will or would?
Are you considering a jump from the Ioniq?

KCross

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I would say the guy hasn't a clue....how could it have LKAS without it?

The base car in UK has it....I would guess the sales people just dont know

Im with you on that one.
If the car has the gear for LKAS it can do adaptive cruise, surely?

And all 3 specs in the UK have adaptive.

I bet the salesman, in fairness to him, has read the specs and has remembered that the words "adaptive cruise" were not mentioned but I bet its in there.

liamog

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I would say the guy hasn't a clue....how could it have LKAS without it?

The base car in UK has it....I would guess the sales people just dont know

If you look at the Korean models in Google translate, https://www.hyundai.com/kr/ko/vehicles/kona-electric/price


Their "Modern" spec comes with Cruise Control but with an option pack "Contemporary Smart Sense Package" which adds Smart Cruise Control (with Stop & Go) so we at least know basic cruise is available, I'm really hoping Hyundai Ireland are wrong though.

Silent Running

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I would say the guy hasn't a clue....how could it have LKAS without it?

The base car in UK has it....I would guess the sales people just dont know

The guy very much has a clue. He's head of distribution in Hyundai Ireland, and from speaking with him for a good while, he's very clued in about EVs and the demand for them. He stated that they are landing the car to a budget and the spec reflects that.

LKAS is a separate system based on a camera in the windscreen. Adaptive cruise is radar based.

Just to be clear: the guy I was talking to was NOT a car salesman in a dealership!

When I said I was surprised about the cruise and headlights, he went off to be 100% sure, then he called me back.

KCross

Silent Running wrote: »

The guy very much has a clue. He's head of distribution in Hyundai Ireland, and from speaking with him for a good while, he's very clued in about EVs and the demand for them. He stated that they are landing the car to a budgetmargin and the spec reflects that.

FYP