Hyundai Kona EV pre orders open

spakman

Kramer wrote: »

From Facebook, an Irish Kona owner from a few weeks ago, averaged 117km/h for 102 minutes at 26.5kW/h per 100km. Shows 8c temp & weather was good enough, dry etc.

Not just me then .

I wonder is because they're in Sport mode. I've done 200km at 120km/h without a problem. Maybe they were frequently slowing and then putting the foot down rather than cruise control..

Kramer

spakman wrote: »

I've done 200km at 120km/h without a problem.

200km @ 120km/h how? Average consumption?
I averaged 24.4 in Eco on cruise - maybe Sport used a little more.

liamog

Kona to get 11kW on board charger in model refresh and its 95% efficent. Just waiting for Hyundai Ireland to figure out how to make it an on board granny charger in instead.

https://pushevs.com/2019/05/07/2020-hyundai-kona-electric-gets-a-11-kw-on-board-charger/

Silent Running

liamog wrote: »

Kona to get 11kW on board charger in model refresh and its 95% efficent. Just waiting for Hyundai Ireland to figure out how to make it an on board granny charger in instead.

https://pushevs.com/2019/05/07/2020-hyundai-kona-electric-gets-a-11-kw-on-board-charger/

Hyundai will probably bring the current UK spec to Ireland when the new, higher UK spec is released. Anything to keep the Irish buyer behind the rest of Europe.

amcalester

Kramer wrote: »

The 465km trip included the M7 roadworks in both directions averaging 60km/h for their duration (brought the average down considerably), some 100km N road & the M7, of course. All at approximately the speed limit. "Zeroed the dial" for exactly 60 mins to precisely check the sustained motorway speed consumption.
Did not deliberately drive to get poor consumption, at/near speed limits all the time.

The 305km trip comprised of 70% motorway but I drove for significant periods at 100, 110, 120 & even 90km/h, to check efficiency at different speeds.
Still averaged 19.1kWh/100km over the 300km but it averaged 22.5 IIRC at an indicated 120km/h (115 actual).

I could no doubt get 350km range on a motorway with it but conversely, I could get far, far less, if driven like I stole it, like I normally would on a quiet motorway. Not at -10c in snow on a wet road with a headwind, in dry calm good EV conditions.
I was surprised so I posted my experience. I'm not anti Kona, or anti EV, no axe to grind etc.

Surprised now at how incredulous & dismissive people seem to be .

I wasn't being dismissive or incredulous. I nearly bought a Kona back in January before deciding to wait for the Model 3, 1 car gave up the ghost last week so now I'm back looking at the Kona.

My commute is 220km 3 times a week and 170km the other 2, mostly motorway so your consumption figures have me wondering if the Kona will be up for that commute in the winter.

Goldmark

I have put 10,000km on my Kona since collecting it on 23rd Feb. I initially drove it in Comfort mode and then chnged to ECO mode. I didnt find the driving experience in ECO mode to be an issue so continued in it. I do a mix of driving. I reset the consumption information early on but on the clock currently about 8,000kms at consumption of 16.2kWh/100km. The few days we had at 15-20 degrees daytime I started to see journey consumtion figures of 13.5-14kWh/100km for the first time. I would say in Sports Mode the fugures of 24-25kWh are realistic but I find Sports Mode to be all wheel spinning and very agressive.

Miscreant

This is going to be a long one, so grab a cup of coffee before you start reading.

So I had the use of a Kona Electric for the weekend after renting one from UFO Drive (there should be a thread on here somewhere about it already if you are interested, they do electric vehicle rentals only). I went for the Kona as it is more likely that this is what I would buy as I am not a fan of the Leaf (looks) and the current 28KwH Ioniq does not have the range I can settle for. The BMW i3 was out for me as it is too small so that leaves the Teslas, but I can't even afford a second hand one so they are out too.
Here are my impressions of the Kona over the 3 days:

Day 1:
I picked up the car at 8am on Friday morning. It was fully charged to 100% and showed 476km on the GOM. The overall mileage on it was 41km so I seem to have been the first to really drive it as it was literally brand new. First impressions of the car were OK, the seats are comfortable and heated and the boot space seemed to be sufficient for my needs (no kids to worry about and I don't "golf"). The interior plastics are cheap and the steering wheel had the worst feeling material of any car I have ever driven, I hated touching it.... The infotainment system screen was sufficient but for a car of this price to not have built Sat-nav is utterly unforgivable considering the Ioniq gets it. I realise that you can use Android auto or Apple Carplay but they generally don't show your remaining range and so on. Space in the back seats is marginal at best, I found with my seat the way I like it, the rear passenger had about 10cms from the seat bolster to the front seat back to fit their legs.
The drive home was 8kms on city streets from Stephen's Green to Dublin 24 and I averaged 16.8KwH/100km. I was getting used to the car and messed around with the regen settings to see which worked best for me. I settled on level 2. I liked how the car drove, it was powerful and silent and all the controls are logically laid out so there wasn't much of a learning curve from my usual car (Toyota Auris hybrid).
Obviously the car didn't need charging when I got home so we packed up and headed for Galway later on that day. The trip on the motorway was relaxing and effortless. I drove it the way I would my normal car as to do otherwise would give me a false result for my own purposes. The cruise control was set to 106KmH on the motorway and the car just took care of itself. The LKA was a bit odd but something I would need to get used to, it would nudge every now and again if I changed lanes without indicating but once I knew what was happening it was generally fine ( the setting can be turned off using a button on the dash anyway). We arrived in Galway a few hours later after travelling 231kms and getting an average consumption of 14.8KwH/100km. The car had just under 50% charge remaining when we arrived (I can't remember exactly but it was mid to high 40s) so I took out the granny cable and plugged in at the in-law's house

Day 2:
The following morning (Saturday) I unplugged the car after about 13 hours and checked the SOC, it was at 78% so not too bad for the day I had planned. Most of Saturday was spent driving in to Galway City and doing some shopping followed but showing the rest of the in-laws what the car was like. I would consider them to be "ordinary" driving folk like most of the people on the roads and they generally liked the car until the sticker price was quoted..... this was met with the universal response of "too expensive" for what you get. I imagine most people would have this reaction TBH and they are right. The motoring public things that the price quoted needs to have another 10k removed for the "grants" but when I told them that the 38k included the grants they were no longer interested. In any case, the car was plugged in to the granny cable at the end of the night on Saturday at 63%.

Day 3:
Sunday morning, I unplugged the car after about 10 hours charging and had 97% SOC so we packed up and headed home on the Motorway again (at the usual 106KmH). There were stretches on the motorway where I tested overtaking acceleration and it was quite impressive. Speeds up to 140KmH were reached with minimal effort but the consumption went up to 24KwH/100Km at times for this. We arrived back home with 34% left on the battery for a range of 170Kms or so. I emptied the car and returned it to the rental location in St Stephen's Green. Total distance covered for that day was 244Km and the average consuption was 15.4KwH/100Km so I think this was respectable.

Overall consumption over the 3 days and 600.3Kms came in at 14.7KwH/100Km.

So, let's sum this all up from an ordinary driver's perspective:

The Good:
Quiet (it is an EV after all)
Comfortable
Powerful (the torque is addictive)
Excellent range (my requirement was to get to Galway without stopping, and the car did that with range to spare)
Some nice features (heated leather seats, cruise control)

The Bad:
The price (sticker shock is very real, it needs to come down a lot before the normal punter will even look at this as an alternative for their ICE vehicle)
Value for money (see above, without the grant, the car is 48K... I could buy something very nice for that)
No Nav (unforgivable at this price point)
Cheap plastics (scratchy plastic everywhere)
Steering wheel (it felt absolutely awful and everyone who touched it agreed)
Poor Rear seat legroom (only suitable for kids really or short journeys).

There was no range anxiety for this whole weekend at all, the only anxiety I had was "charge" anxiety where I knew I would be out of commission for a while if I had to pull over and charge. I think this would only happen if you were travelling over 350Kms on the motorway in one day and lets face it, you can't really do that in Ireland unless you are deliberately trying to deplete the range of the car (or drive for a living).

I think I will be holding off on my purchase of an EV for the moment but will be curious to try out the E-Niro when it arrives as this is a slightly larger car and might be of a higher quality. Paying the high price for these vehicles is a real barrier to adoption in my mind as not everyone has the means to spend nearly 40k Euro. I am aware that there are cheaper offerings out there below the 30k mark but this is still rather high when you take range in to consideration. Anyone I spoke to in relation to it were of the opinion that the minimum range they would accept was around the 300km mark but not at the price of this vehicle or even close to it (even 2nd hand). 25k Euro seems to be the sweet spot but I don't believe that EVs with this range requirement are going to hit this any time soon.

In my view, large scale EV adoption is about 5 to 10 years off for most drivers outside of the Urban environment and price/range will play a big part in this.

Goldmark

Miscreant wrote: »

This is going to be a long one, so grab a cup of coffee before you start reading.

Fairly well summed up I would day. The big market is obviously whoever can get a car with 350-400km range at under the €30,000 price bracket. However most people not pricing in the savings in their comments on sticker price. Probably 10c/km for petrol vs 1.5c/km on night rate electricity. For 25,000km/annum thats €2,125/yr plus car tax, servicing and toll savings.

Kramer

Agree about the wheel - first thing I noticed on both ocassions I drove the Kona, terrible feeling material on the wheel.
Second thing I noticed was the road noise - I found it very intrusive, especially on rougher road surfaces. Grand on smooth tarmac but on 90% of roads I found it very noisy, far more so than the Ioniq, Leaf, i3 or eGolf etc.
Possibly tyres.

Miscreant

Kramer wrote: »

Agree about the wheel - first thing I noticed on both ocassions I drove the Kona, terrible feeling material on the wheel.
Second thing I noticed was the road noise - I found it very intrusive, especially on rougher road surfaces. Grand on smooth tarmac but on 90% of roads I found it very noisy, far more so than the Ioniq, Leaf, i3 or eGolf etc.
Possibly tyres.

Indeed, the road noise was bad at times but I covered mostly motorway so for the most part we were spared that. I had a some driving on regional roads but the speeds were relatively low (below 80k) and I did notice it being a little intrusive. I did find than wind noise was higher than normal however on the way home yesterday and I think we were driving with a head wind, which might explain the higher energy consumption on that trip. I suppose you could turn the radio up but the soundproofing definitely needs a bit of tweaking.

Miscreant

Goldmark wrote: »

Miscreant wrote: »

This is going to be a long one, so grab a cup of coffee before you start reading.

Fairly well summed up I would day. The big market is obviously whoever can get a car with 350-400km range at under the €30,000 price bracket. However most people not pricing in the savings in their comments on sticker price. Probably 10c/km for petrol vs 1.5c/km on night rate electricity. For 25,000km/annum thats €2,125/yr plus car tax, servicing and toll savings.

Absolutely, the savings are there however I have found that most people don't see it that way. They see the price and recoil in horror. It would take several years to recoup the cost of fuel in any case, even saving 2k per year, it would take at least 4 years to save 8k. They could get a petrol or diesel Kona for 14k less so the payback period is even longer. Factor in that most people keep a new car for 3 to 4 years and they will never see their money back on it. I am aware that the spec of the EV is higher than an equivalent ICE however most of the kit would be lost on the "normal" punter who wants to from A to B with minimal fuss. I consider myself tech savvy so I will go and actively learn about the features of the car but most people won't bother. One of my sisters in law didn't even know her car came with cruise control until I told her 2 years after she got the car and asking her to work a Sat Nav is like asking her to calculate the value for pie to 20 decimal places. I would consider her a typical car owner; the A to B type who gets in and drives without a thought to anything.

Water John

Miscreant, a very balanced review and article, thanks. OH drives ours, it is nosier than the Leaf.
The price needs to drop about €5K on these longer range EVs IWT. People may be only looking at the price and not factoring running cost. But then why should the lower running cost be handed over to the manufacturer?
The market and price point will adjust over time.

spakman

Just thought I'd share my usage since my last full charge.
I changed to Eco mode (had been driving in comfort pretty much since day 1).
My commute is N7 & M50 and so far I've driven 207km and have 290km left in range! I think it said 11.7kWh/100km when I last checked.
I have been trying to stay in the 'eco zone' (before it goes red) as much as possible but to be honest that hasn't taken much effort due to the traffic speeds anyway. Not sure how much is down to changed driving style and how much is down to warmer weather improving battery performance. Either way, I'm v happy with that!

unkel

spakman wrote: »

I changed to Eco mode

Why?

I would never even consider driving slowly or in ECO mode unless I wouldn't make it where I'm going. And that's hardly an issue with your long range EV.

Your low consumption is impressive, but honestly if you do average mileage, doing 11.7kWh/100km compared with 13.7kWh/100km will save you €25 per year. And you're just after buying a €40,000 car

Mike9832

unkel wrote: »

Why?

I would never even consider driving slowly or in ECO mode unless I wouldn't make it where I'm going. And that's hardly an issue with your long range EV.

Your low consumption is impressive, but honestly if you do average mileage, doing 11.7kWh/100km compared with 13.7kWh/100km will save you €25 per year. And you're just after buying a €40,000 car

Even in ECO mode it's still quick

spakman

unkel wrote: »

spakman wrote: »

I changed to Eco mode

Why?

I would never even consider driving slowly or in ECO mode unless I wouldn't make it where I'm going. And that's hardly an issue with your long range EV.

Your low consumption is impressive, but honestly if you do average mileage, doing 11.7kWh/100km compared with 13.7kWh/100km will save you €25 per year. And you're just after buying a €40,000 car

Out of curiosity. And, as I said, it doesn't really require a change in driving style. A bit slower in acceleration, but the way M50 traffic goes, you catch up in a few metres anyway!
And it's a company car so didn't cost me €40,000 😋

unkel

spakman wrote: »

Out of curiosity.

Fair enough. On a day last summer, also out of curiosity, I decided to drive smoothly and economically (but still in sports mode). I averaged about 9kWh/100km that day giving a range of over 300km for my tiny 28kWh battery Ioniq

JohnC.

What's availability like on the Kona? I've been interested in going electric but waiting for the right car and I think this in particular, and the Kia pair to an extent, have pushed me over the edge, though the Kia's availability is woeful.

zg3409

JohnC. wrote: »

What's availability like on the Kona? I've been interested in going electric but waiting for the right car and I think this in particular, and the Kia pair to an extent, have pushed me over the edge, though the Kia's availability is woeful.

In terms of hyundai kona, I am not sure on availability, but it is dealer specific, as in certain dealers may have stock in certain colours. All Irish seem to be same spec, so ring around to get the colour you like. Don't believe certain dealers as they may push you towards other vehicles, or to wait for later deliveries. Beware the kia niro boot is bigger than Hyundai kona, and the kia niro demo full battery models are 38kwh (I think) while the first real deliveries are expected to be 64kwh models. There may be more cars and options next year if you are not rushed and prices may go down with alternatives such as Tesla model 3 on the market.

dmcg90

My local garage near Blanch said they're plenty of stock for 192. Thinking of getting one over the e-Niro as the Kia garage is offering brutal trade in values (and they incorporate next year's deprecation). It's nearly 3500 in the difference between it for me based on my car so feature difference aside, I can live with the Kona.

eagerv

Was in Fitzpatricks Kildare last week. A few in stock. Apparently no problem with availability at the moment.



The price is the only problem..:)

Silent Running

eagerv wrote: »

Was in Fitzpatricks Kildare last week. A few in stock. Apparently no problem with availability at the moment.



The price is the only problem..:)

Not the only problem. Spec is crap. Niro spec is a good bit better.

dmcg90

The only difference I could find was:
- Adaptive cruise control (only manual in Kona)
- mirrors don't retract automatically
- boot/back seat space is smaller.

Anything else I'm missing?

Silent Running wrote: »

eagerv wrote: »

Was in Fitzpatricks Kildare last week. A few in stock. Apparently no problem with availability at the moment.



The price is the only problem..:)

Not the only problem. Spec is crap. Niro spec is a good bit better.

Silent Running

dmcg90 wrote: »

The only difference I could find was:
- Adaptive cruise control (only manual in Kona)
- mirrors don't retract automatically
- boot/back seat space is smaller.

Anything else I'm missing?

Auto emergency braking, sat nav. Can't think what else of the top of my head.

eagerv

Silent Running wrote: »

Not the only problem. Spec is crap. Niro spec is a good bit better.

That's what I meant. High price for lousy spec..

eagerv

dmcg90 wrote: »

The only difference I could find was:
- Adaptive cruise control (only manual in Kona)
- mirrors don't retract automatically
- boot/back seat space is smaller.

Anything else I'm missing?

Auto regen ?

LFA.

Silent Running

eagerv wrote: »

Auto regen ?

LFA.

Forgot about the auto regen.

How does the LKAS differ from LFA? I know there's some difference but can't figure out what it is.

eagerv

Silent Running wrote: »

Forgot about the auto regen.

How does the LAKS differ from LFA? I know there's some difference but can't figure out what it is.

AFAIK LKA keeps you crudely between the lines, bouncing off the lines, while LFA keeps you smoothly between the lines. May not be explaining very well.


I have the two on my Honda and that's the way it works on it.

Silent Running

eagerv wrote: »

AFAIK LKA keeps you crudely between the lines, bouncing off the lines, while LFA keeps you smoothly between the lines. May not be explaining very well.


I have the two on my Honda and that's the way it works on it.

I have the Ioniq with LKAS and it keeps pretty central in the lane. It certainly doesn't ping pong between the lines. That's why I can't see how LFA differs.

Edte: reading on the Kia website, it looks like LFA will switch lanes to pass traffic ahead. That sounds good. I think...

https://www.kia.com/ie/about-kia/experience-kia/technology/drive-wise/

eagerv

Silent Running wrote: »

I have the Ioniq with LKAS and it keeps pretty central in the lane. It certainly doesn't ping pong between the lines. That's why I can't see how LFA differs.

I am not too sure to be honest, I think the LFA normally uses the front radar as well as the cameras on windscreen. I presume the Ioniq has radar for Adaptive cruise so probably gets the equivalent of LFA.


Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than me would comment?

paulm123

EV sales ytd

Kona 715
Leaf 644
E Golf 131
Zoe 125
i3 99
i pace 28
Model s 26
Etron 17
Nero 13
Model x 10

The Nero is their demonstration vehicles would expect that to sell well eventually but Golf sales are very disappointing you'd have to think.
The Market has decided what it thinks of the current E Golf, Zoe and i3 .
No idea of availability of Teslas or he jag/audis

obriendj

Sorry if this has been posted before and probably not the correct thread but can you clarify something bout my Kona EV

I am charing great from the fast 50 kw/hr chargers but am only getting 7kw/hr when charging from a so called 22 kw/hr esb charger.

Is this normal?

Should it be charging faster?


Edit:
Or is this right?

Rapid 100kW 30mins (80%)
Rapid 50kW 1 hr (80%)
Fast 22kW 9 hr
Fast 7kW 9hr
Slow 3kW 26hrs

kuro2k

obriendj wrote: »

Sorry if this has been posted before and probably not the correct thread but can you clarify something bout my Kona EV

I am charing great from the fast 50 kw/hr chargers but am only getting 7kw/hr when charging from a so called 22 kw/hr esb charger.

Is this normal?

Should it be charging faster?

7kw/h is all you will get in a Kona from a non fast charger

AFAIK only Zoe will get 22kw/h

obriendj

kuro2k wrote: »

7kw/h is all you will get in a Kona from a non fast charger

AFAIK only Zoe will get 22kw/h

Sorry I pressed send before adding my little table there

Is that info right?
Are there any 100 kwhr chargers yet?

Thanks for the info.
Is it me that it is strange that they have 22kwhr if most car can't take that speed. Or is it future proofing?

zg3409

obriendj wrote: »

kuro2k wrote: »

7kw/h is all you will get in a Kona from a non fast charger

AFAIK only Zoe will get 22kw/h

Sorry I pressed send before adding my little table there

Is that info right?
Are there any 100 kwhr chargers yet?

Thanks for the info.
Is it me that it is strange that they have 22kwhr if most car can't take that speed. Or is it future proofing?

Ionity chargers in Cashel are 100kw. The kona will probably Max at 70kw. The reason 22kw slow chargers are installed while 99% of cars have 7kw or less AC chargers is because it is very easy for the esb to wire up ordinary 3 phase electricity like any business supply and it does not cost really any more. Fast DC chargers need power converters and a very heafty supply (typically 50kw for CCS and Chademo and another 43kw for the AC supply. There is talk some of the 22kw AC chargers will be switched to 22kw DC meaning the kona can take all 22kw. Presumably this is where the supply cannot handle 50kw or 100kw. This is relatively easy for the esb but probably 20,000 euro per location for the DC charger

ELM327

zg3409 wrote: »

Ionity chargers in Cashel are 100kw. The kona will probably Max at 70kw. The reason 22kw slow chargers are installed while 99% of cars have 7kw or less AC chargers is because it is very easy for the esb to wire up ordinary 3 phase electricity like any business supply and it does not cost really any more. Fast DC chargers need power converters and a very heafty supply (typically 50kw for CCS and Chademo and another 43kw for the AC supply. There is talk some of the 22kw AC chargers will be switched to 22kw DC meaning the kona can take all 22kw. Presumably this is where the supply cannot handle 50kw or 100kw. This is relatively easy for the esb but probably 20,000 euro per location for the DC charger

Agree with everyting else, but <22kW DC chargers are very cheap relative to the 50kW and above. Considering the supply is already there for 2*22kW AC, there may not be that much cost at all to switch to DC. DC 22kW as a "slow" charger makes a lot more sense as every EV can take DC whereas only a few can take 3 phase AC, and only 2 can take the full 22kW.

jusmeig

Kona for sale in Fairview Motors, think he said he has this one and 1 other colour.

ELM327

Too expensive for the paddy spec, but a much better option than a new leaf

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

Too expensive for the paddy spec, but a much better option than a new leaf

Not sure about that ELM327. Both are a terrible choice for the price. An overpriced small plastic car with good technical design in Paddy spec vs. overpriced family car with questionable base technology but lots of gadgets. Hmm, I'd choose none of the above.

unkel

zg3409 wrote: »

Ionity chargers in Cashel are 100kw.

I thought all Ionity chargers are 350kW? Most of them are just limited to 175kW for the moment until they get liquid cooled cables fitted.

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

I thought all Ionity chargers are 350kW? Most of them are just limited to 175kW for the moment until they get liquid cooled cables fitted.

Correct

samih wrote: »

Not sure about that ELM327. Both are a terrible choice for the price. An overpriced small plastic car with good technical design in Paddy spec vs. overpriced family car with questionable base technology but lots of gadgets. Hmm, I'd choose none of the above.

Yes, to be honest I agree, would not buy any non tesla EV if buying new

beanian

I was out in Fairview motors last week looking at Ioniqs but threw an eye over the Kona at the same time. I mentioned the much touted 12 month waiting list and he said that was bull**** and that he has plenty of them in stock.

The Peugeot 2008 at or just above 30k OTR looks interesting if it turns out to be as good as on the paper. Really fast charging and liquid cooling and doesn't look it's made of recycled water bottles. Power is just "adequate" but should be good for the Irish insurance.

Kona looks great in some colours and the basics are good. Just the price is 5-10 too expensive for what it is. At about 30k OTR it would be a no brainer. And I reckon that what it will cost after a couple of years on the sale when the competition heats up in 2021.

KCross

unkel wrote: »

I thought all Ionity chargers are 350kW? Most of them are just limited to 175kW for the moment until they get liquid cooled cables fitted.

I thought they were all upgradeable to 350kW but not currently installed that way internally (inverters etc) or externally (liquid cooled cables).

I'd be surprised if they have everything in place for 350kW but just decided not to install the cables. That wouldnt make sense to stop at the cable.

KCross

samih wrote: »

Just the price is 5-10 too expensive for what it is. At about 30k OTR it would be a no brainer. And I reckon that what it will cost after a couple of years on the sale when the competition heats up in 2021.

What competition do you see in 2021 that will cause price reductions? I dont see it. There will be many additional EV's on the market in 2021 but I dont think the price will dramatically drop. If anything, its up it will go.

Mike9832

samih wrote: »

The Peugeot 2008 at or just above 30k OTR looks interesting if it turns out to be as good as on the paper. Really fast charging and liquid cooling and doesn't look it's made of recycled water bottles. Power is just "adequate" but should be good for the Irish insurance.

Kona looks great in some colours and the basics are good. Just the price is 5-10 too expensive for what it is. At about 30k OTR it would be a no brainer. And I reckon that what it will cost after a couple of years on the sale when the competition heats up in 2021.

Thats my last hope

Really like the look of it

Decent range from 50kWh battery and 8secs to 60 is perfectly acceptable for its size

100kW charging nice feature too

Its €6000 cheaper than Leaf40 in base spec in Germany so should be under €30,000 here even if its higher spec GT line

Zoe50 should be cheaper again and it has more range than Leaf60

unkel

KCross wrote: »

I'd be surprised if they have everything in place for 350kW but just decided not to install the cables. That wouldnt make sense to stop at the cable.

Well it did, as they started rolling out these cables were unavailable / extremely expensive (can't remember which). Several of them on the continent have since got the cables and are now 375kW enabled

See my spec sheet post on the Tesla Model 3 thread after Nyland charged a Model 3 at just under 200kW on one of them. The charger is restricted to 500A and 900V (from memory), but not at both at the same time, for a max of 375kW

Tesla Model 3 has only a 400V pack or something like that and can charge at more than 500A, but that was all the Ionity charger could give it, so it got 400*500=200kW roughly

KCross

KCross wrote: »

What competition do you see in 2021 that will cause price reductions? I dont see it. There will be many additional EV's on the market in 2021 but I dont think the price will dramatically drop. If anything, its up it will go.

Looks the VW are the drivers for value aside from Tesla. I think the ID3 is the best bet at the moment to be the value king of the sub 40k market. It will spaceous enough as the only only car and VW have taken no technological shortcuts that I can see. It's a proper design. Also 2021 will be the year that the manufacturers will have to start to sell harder to bring their fleet CO2 rate down and the sales won't happen if the prices stay at the current levels. Tesla Model 3 and Y will make sure the prices won't get too high either.

On the LHD markets (and hopefully here too and maybe the goverment plans will make Skoda to reconsider the situation with the Citigo) the eUP clones will put pressure for shorter range smaller cars.

KCross

samih wrote: »

Looks the VW are the drivers for value aside from Tesla. I think the ID3 is the best bet at the moment to be the value king of the sub 40k market.

Indications are it will be priced much the same as the market is today. Not sure why you think there is going to be significant value there that will result in price drops.

It might be a better car relative to current EV's but I cant see big price drops as a result.

samih wrote: »

Also 2021 will be the year that the manufacturers will have to start to sell harder to bring their fleet CO2 rate down and the sales won't happen if the prices stay at the current levels. Tesla Model 3 and Y will make sure the prices won't get too high either.

Even with the ridiculous pricing today they are still selling out. Not only are they selling out but Nissan are raising their prices!

Why do you think WLTP emissions will cause significant price drops. It will mean that manufacturers have to sell more EV's as a % of their fleet but it doesnt mean they will have to drop the prices to sell them based on how the market is behaving right now.


We have had so many false dawns over the last few years where "the next car will be priced right" and it is always more expensive, not less. I cant see it changing over the next few years. The demand is going to increase not decrease so there will be no problem with sellling what they have... hence no reason to drop prices.... that's my opinion anyway.... time will tell.

liamog

When you have to sell 0.5% of your fleet as EV to avoid emissions fines, you price high and sell few.
When you have to sell 20% of your fleet as EV you need to provide much more reasonable pricing.