Hyundai Kona EV pre orders open

positron

Well, Nissan Leaf 2 starts FROM €34,890 in Netherlands... looks like they are worse off than us when it comes to tax etc.

https://www.nissan.nl/voertuigen/nieuw/leaf.html?&cid=psmIcS7zos8_dc|D

KCross

I wonder are those prices the OTR prices or before grants?

DrPhilG

I'm 5'11 and didn't find the Kona overly squashed. It was the ICE version but I wouldn't expect the EV to be drastically different.

I sat in the front and adjusted to my driving position, then got in the back and compared.

Even if it is tight I wouldn't mind. Just 2 of us, no kids. And if we need to take the dogs/cats to kennels we can just fold down the seats.

unkel

Hold your horses! That's an ad from one particular Hyundai dealer. He is clearly just making up the price. Nothing has been announced yet.

Also our incentives are far more generous, list price for Ioniq is €28995 here and €33995 there.

Dglflyer

Its the first hard evidence I have seen on price in Europe,  taking the 5k difference there is with the Ioniq 
there is still quite a gap to close to get to the 35k starting price  we were hoping for in Ireland .  Will ping Hyundai Ireland to see if they have any guide prices ,  they should start getting information on this in the coming days and weeks I am guessing

unkel

It's not hard evidence, it's a maky uppy ad from one cheeky dealer

thierry14

Kona ICE is 23k on that site vs 50k Kona EV

Makes sense

unkel

thierry14 wrote: »

Kona ICE is 23k on that site vs 50k Kona EV

Makes sense

No it doesn't make sense. It's a bloody click bait ad

thierry14

unkel wrote: »

No it doesn't make sense. It's a bloody click bait ad

Think your wrong here Unkel

Kona 64kWh is going to be a bit over 30k in the UK, guys on speakev convinced on that price

That translates to 40k or so here

That NL ad of 50k knocked down to our price range based on Leaf, Ioniq, Tesla, eGolf is 42k

That seems right to me

Sure even that half assed 40kWh Leaf is over 30k here

You really think that 200bhp/64kWh/450km range won't be 40k here?

Your dreaming imo

You know the EV market

Its on the way up, money to be made, they can charge what they want, people will buy anyway

Until Tesla come along with the Model 3 in massive volumes to distort the market, expect to be fleeced by big auto

liamog

UK Ioniq is 24,995 with grant, Irish Ioniq is 28,995 with grant.
30,000 x 1.16 (Same ratio) translates to 34,800.

I'm predicting the Kona is more than likely going to be a 35k car.

Shefwedfan

liamog wrote: »

UK Ioniq is 24,995 with grant, Irish Ioniq is 28,995 with grant.
30,000 x 1.16 (Same ratio) translates to 34,800.

I'm predicting the Kona is more than likely going to be a 35k car.

We have all predicted and everyone has come to the same price:p

Any sign of actually pricing and pre-order?

liamog

Everyone except thierry14 who thinks 30k UK will be 40k Ireland.
I believe the EU prices are due in May, not sure about Ireland.

thierry14

liamog wrote: »

Everyone except thierry14 who thinks 30k UK will be 40k Ireland.
I believe the EU prices are due in May, not sure about Ireland.

Why would they sell for 35k when they can sell for 40k?

They will sell out at 40k no prob

They are only going to make 20k 64kWh units worldwide or something

Scandanavians would they take all them

positron

Looks like that way indeed. Nissan's rapidgate and Tesla not producing enough Model 3s have left Hyundai in a really strong position to price it whatever way they want. I was hoping to spend around 30k on a 40kWh version (or 60kWh if the price difference is less thank 5k), fingers crossed.

Mancomb Seepgood

I'm following this with great interest,I could possibly stretch to 35k but any more and I'd have to pass.

grogi

positron wrote: »

Looks like that way indeed. Nissan's rapidgate and Tesla not producing enough Model 3s have left Hyundai in a really strong position to price it whatever way they want. I was hoping to spend around 30k on a 40kWh version (or 60kWh if the price difference is less thank 5k), fingers crossed.

At the moment there is absolutely nothing wrong with Model 3 output.

The latest independent from Tesla estmates suugest output of 2400 cars/week. https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tesla-tracker/

(source Bloomberg)

At that rate they are making more cars than all other (Europe/US available) manufacturers combined.

unkel

That 2400 was an "all hands on deck" dicated by Elon - probably to create some good news and to stem the plummeting share price. It worked (damn, I was just looking into buying a few shares), but realistically the production is only somewhere between 1000 and 1500

I'd be very suprised if the list price of Kona EV 40kWh will be above 29995 and 64kWh above 34995

DrPhilG

Asked my local dealer today and he had no clue. Says that Hyundai Ireland have given no info at all to the dealers other than that they expect it to be in the market in August but only in the "executive spec". No prices until closer to the time.

KCross

unkel wrote: »

That 2400 was an "all hands on deck" dicated by Elon - probably to create some good news and to stem the plummeting share price. It worked (damn, I was just looking into buying a few shares), but realistically the production is only somewhere between 1000 and 1500

https://electrek.co/2018/04/06/tesla-model-3-registers-record-vins/

It seems like they are going to maintain output this time. Folks are keeping a close eye on these VIN registrations so we'll need to see if Tesla keep following up with these numbers week on week.

grogi

KCross wrote: »

https://electrek.co/2018/04/06/tesla-model-3-registers-record-vins/

It seems like they are going to maintain output this time. Folks are keeping a close eye on these VIN registrations so we'll need to see if Tesla keep following up with these numbers week on week.

For the call it was all-hands-on 2020 cars/week. It has improved since then to the almost 2500/week.

thierry14

unkel wrote: »

That 2400 was an "all hands on deck" dicated by Elon - probably to create some good news and to stem the plummeting share price. It worked (damn, I was just looking into buying a few shares), but realistically the production is only somewhere between 1000 and 1500

I'd be very suprised if the list price of Kona EV 40kWh will be above 29995 and 64kWh above 34995

Its still a hell of a lot more long range EVs than Hyundai are going to make

They want to make 100k all in for all models for the year

Tesla will make more Model 3 than that

If the Kona is 35k that's a reasonable price, as ICE high spec is going to be 25k or so

If its near 40k better buy a model 3 which is way faster and more range

I am confident Model 3 long range will be here sometime in 19

I am hoping I can get one for about 50k possibly inc Dual motor for 0-60 in 4s , wont bother with autopilot, waste of time that thing for my use

thierry14

positron wrote: »

Looks like that way indeed. Nissan's rapidgate and Tesla not producing enough Model 3s have left Hyundai in a really strong position to price it whatever way they want. I was hoping to spend around 30k on a 40kWh version (or 60kWh if the price difference is less thank 5k), fingers crossed.

Exactly

Hyundai in a great position to make hay

Nissan have managed to raise price of the Leaf even with rapidgate issue, demand is massive

Hyundai will have the perfect EV

Fast/Long Range/Fast Charging/CUV

They are onto a winner and they know it

Can't be cheap to make the Kona 64kWh either

Its basically an LG Kona

They supply battery, drive train, cooling etc

Thats surely costing over 10-12k easy

liamog

The only extra cost between Ioniq and Kona is the liquid cooling.

With the way battery pack prices are progressing, a 2016 28kWh costs $1,300 dollars less than a 64kWh in 2019.
The kWh price is dropping by around 20% per year.

unkel

I'm sure they made little or no profit on Ioniq, but Kona is a car that can make them spectacular profits (if they can get the batteries). Hyundai profit margin is already almost as high as BMW, which has the highest of any mainstream auto maker

Hyundai share price is very low (around the lowest it's been for 4 years) seemingly because of a mini fuel gate issue in the US, yet a US hedge fund took a 1 billion USD stake in the company last week, which only lifted the price a bit

Mmmmmm, maybe I'll throw a few dollaroos at it...

thierry14

liamog wrote: »

The only extra cost between Ioniq and Kona is the liquid cooling.

With the way battery pack prices are progressing, a 2016 28kWh costs $1,300 dollars less than a 64kWh in 2019.
The kWh price is dropping by around 20% per year.

Thats for LG though

Hyundai are not in much of bargaining position when everyone wants batteries

I would be very surprised if they are getting it for less than 125/kWh

LG will have to make a healthy margin

Thats 8k on batteries alone

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Hyundai share price is very low (around the lowest it's been for 4 years) seemingly because of a mini fuel gate issue in the US, yet a US hedge fund took a 1 billion USD stake in the company last week, which only lifted the price a bit

Mmmmmm, maybe I'll throw a few dollaroos at it...

Its at 151000KRW. Seems steady enough to me.

What stock symbol are you looking at? It looks stable enough to me over the last 3yrs. Its been about 3yrs since it was consistently above its current value so not low as such... just steady.

It took a dive in 2014 and hasn't significantly changed since.

liamog

thierry14 wrote: »

Thats for LG though

Hyundai are not in much of bargaining position when everyone wants batteries

I would be very surprised if they are getting it for less than 125/kWh

LG will have to make a healthy margin

Thats 8k on batteries alone

The Ioniq was the same. LG supplied the main bits.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

Its at 151000KRW. Seems steady enough to me.

What stock symbol are you looking at? It looks stable enough to me over the last 3yrs. Its been about 3yrs since it was consistently above its current value so not low as such... just steady.

Was looking at the GDR on the DAX

Dglflyer

Have pinged HYundai Ireland on Facebook , they are usually pretty good with replies but I would expect the same answer your local dealer is giving. Time will tell

The Carlow dealer claimed they knew nothing about the EV version of the Kona and were waiting for the diesel that's all they're interested in and were disappointed that there is no Diesel version now.

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

The Carlow dealer claimed they knew nothing about the EV version of the Kona and were waiting for the diesel that's all they're interested in and were disappointed that there is no Diesel version now.

Did you really expect anything different? If I went to Hyundai Cavan I bet they wouldnt have a f**king clue Hyundai sell electric cars at all :P

Lol no , I certainly didn't expect anything different.

I just walked out of the dealer and shock my head really, nothing has changed since the leaf first went to sale.......

Dglflyer

Selling electric cars ruins their bottom line , no after sales service or myriad of issues that need to be fixed,  timing belts , 
head gaskets,  fuel injectors..  you name it .   The penny has not dropped with them yet that If you are not making all your cars electric by 2025 you wont be making cars at all.  Thats why some are still pushing Hydrogen Fuel Cell vehicles ,  more parts , more to fix .  A lot of car companies are going to get "Kodak-ed"

ethernet

Dglflyer wrote: »

Have pinged HYundai Ireland on Facebook , they are usually pretty good with replies but I would expect the same answer your local dealer is giving. Time will tell

I messaged them a few weeks ago and got this in response:
"The electric KONA is likely to arrive in dealerships for 182 but we cannot confirm that for definite as of yet. Hyundai Ireland expects to be in a position to confirm that in the next month or so."

liamog

I did a comparision between the Kona Electric and Kona Petrol to give people an idea of the costs and specs. I've compared the 64kWh to the 1.6 T-GDI as it's the closest in spec/performance. I've priced the cost per 100km using a 90% efficiency on a night rate home charger.

An average Irish driver does 17,000km, over 3 years the cars basically cost the same and you get a more powerful car.

Model | Kona Electric 64kWh | Kona 1.6 T-GDI
Fuel Consumption | 14.3 kWh/100km | 6.7 L/100km
Range | 470 km | 746 km
Power | 150 kW | 130 kW
Torque | 395 Nm | 265 Nm
Price | €35,000.00 | €30,000.00
Fuel Cost | €0.07 / kWh | €1.349 / L
Cost per 100km | €1.11 | €9.04
Cost per 17000km | €189.08 | €1,536.51
Tax per year | €120.00 | €390.00
Cost per year | €309.08 | €1,926.51

liamog

For argument's sake a 3 year personal loan of €5,000 @8.5% would have a credit cost of €657.
So for an average driver, it will cost you an extra €650 for the first 3 years.

grogi

liamog wrote: »

For argument's sake a 3 year personal loan of €5,000 @8.5% would have a credit cost of €657.
So for an average driver, it will cost you an extra €650 for the first 3 years.

Why would you borrow at 8.5% when getting a new car?!

liamog

grogi wrote: »

Why would you borrow at 8.5% when getting a new car?!

First loan I picked from BOI
Trying to make sure certain posters who believe the Kona may be the most expensive car in the world can't pick holes in my figures.

Shefwedfan

grogi wrote: »

Why would you borrow at 8.5% when getting a new car?!

The banks have to make money as well you know

But the diesel will save you loads of money lol.

14.3 Kwh/100 kms ? that's some efficiency if correct that would make it about 2 .6Kw 100/km more efficient than the i3 if that's the EPA result.

That would get about 19.4 Kwh/100 km on the motorway at 120 Km/h or about 329 Kms to empty with 64 usable Kwh that's not bad at all. So say about 300 kms before you get to a charger. Or get into town charge up on AC and if you got the time return trip without charging or significantly less.

positron

Wow, 270 euro cheaper to tax! It will sell based on that alone.. :P

thelikelylad

Deleted User wrote: »

14.3 Kwh/100 kms ? that's some efficiency if correct that would make it about 2 .6Kw 100/km more efficient than the i3 if that's the EPA result.

EPA estimate should be closer to 16kWh/100km (64kWh/400km) according to the Hyundai US press release.

unkel

liamog wrote: »

For argument's sake a 3 year personal loan of €5,000 @8.5% would have a credit cost of €657.
So for an average driver, it will cost you an extra €650 for the first 3 years.

That's presuming that both cars have the same depreciation. I'd say the long range EV will depreciate considerably less.

Out of interest, would you put a third column in comparing the cheapest petrol Kona as well? A lot of people will be going for the 191 reg, not caring what they are getting as long as the tax is chape and the plate is new

KCross

And also do figures for, say, 30k km per year.

Dglflyer

http://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=3046879&cloc=joongangdaily|home|newslist1

Looks like the price will be more in line with previous estimates and the 49k was a bit of a red herring

Shefwedfan

Dglflyer wrote: »

http://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=3046879&cloc=joongangdaily|home|newslist1

Looks like the price will be more in line with previous estimates and the 49k was a bit of a red herring

Small issue I see....just a small one

They wanted to sell 120,000

They already have preorders for 180,000 according to that website....those maths dont work

Dglflyer

I think that may be a typo,  another article said 18000 ....

thelikelylad

Dglflyer wrote: »

http://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=3046879&cloc=joongangdaily%7Chome|newslist1

Looks like the price will be more in line with previous estimates and the 49k was a bit of a red herring

Prices and specs are up on the Hyundai site in Korea.

From what I can see it comes in 2 trims, Modern and Premium. Notable specs and prices below - hope I've the numbers right. All prices before incentives:

Kona Modern 64kWh: €37.5k (KRW 49,522,500)
- 'Artificial' leather seats
- 8" infotainment display
- Rear parking sensors

Kona Premium 64kWh: €39k (KRW 51,652,500)
- Electronically adjustable front seats with memory
- HUD
- Front parking sensors


Options
- 39kWh battery -€2,600
- Winter package (Heat pump + battery heater) +€1,000
- Convenience package (ventilated seats, 8-way electronic seats, wireless phone charger) +€700
- Sunroof +€400
- Premium package (Natural leather seats, premium sound system) +€700
- 'Smart sense' (auto stop/go, highway assistance, blindspot) +€500


Comparing the above to the Korean prices for the Ioniq excl. options:

IONIQ N (base spec): €31.5k (KRW 41,694,750)
IONIQ Q (top spec): €34k (KRW 44,889,750)

EDIT: The IONIQ N + Options to bring it up to single Irish spec: €34k (KRW 45,044,750)


Haven't compared specs fully but interesting that the top spec Kona is +€5k more than top spec IONIQ.


Source: https://www.hyundai.com/kr/ko/vehicles/kona-electric/price
Source: https://www.hyundai.com/kr/ko/vehicles/ioniq-electric/price

Shefwedfan

thelikelylad wrote: »

Prices and specs are up on the Hyundai site in Korea.

From what I can see it comes in 2 trims, Modern and Premium. Notable specs and prices below - hope I've the numbers right. All prices before incentives:

Kona Modern 64kWh: €37.5k (KRW 49,522,500)
- 'Artificial' leather seats
- 8" infotainment display
- Rear parking sensors

Kona Premium 64kWh: €39k (KRW 51,652,500)
- Electronically adjustable front seats with memory
- HUD
- Front parking sensors


Options
- 39kWh battery -€2,600
- Winter package (Heat pump + battery heater) +€1,000
- Convenience package (ventilated seats, 8-way electronic seats, wireless phone charger) +€700
- Sunroof +€400
- Premium package (Natural leather seats, premium sound system) +€700
- 'Smart sense' (auto stop/go, highway assistance, blindspot) +€500

Excellent work!! thanks for spending the time and sharing

I guess the 64kWh comes with all of the optional items on the 64kWh?

Based on the above Ireland will get the Modern pack...doubt we would get options

grogi

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I guess the 64kWh comes with all of the optional items on the 64kWh?

Based on the above Ireland will get the Modern pack...doubt we would get options

No, why? There is discount for going with smaller battery, premium for extras on cars with both types of battery