Neighbours didn't see anything strange...

Neyite

Except when the cops show up, it transpires that there was a history of odd behaviour that was witnessed by the all the neighbours over a period of time.

I'm referring of course to the Turpin case that's unfolding in the US. (I think we might be limited as to what we might be able to say with regards to an ongoing case but I'm sure any statements backed up by stuff linked publicly is fine) I know in the US in general people are more distrustful of authority, and seeing a line of kids out at 3am kneeling and praying might be brushed off as being strict parents but I really struggle to understand the neighbours who witnessed all the really odd stuff and never joined the dots enough to pick up the phone.

But I also wondered, here in Ireland, how slow/ quick would we be to report potential child neglect or child abuse to an authority? Or if you were reported to social services, would you see it as invasive or see it as invasive but a necessary process to ensure that we have a country that addresses child abuse? Would you be glad on some level that someone in your child's life was observant enough to have a concern that even if was proven to be unwarranted and unfounded, got it checked out anyway?

On the flip side, what would it take for you to report someone you know to Social Services?

One eyed Jack

Saw this thread last night and was waiting to see what others might contribute first, and that's exactly how sometimes people even though they see the flags and so on, they're reluctant to say anything, either for fear that they might be over-reacting, jumping to conclusions they'd rather not where children are concerned, or plain just operating on the belief that their concerns won't be taken seriously.

I'd imagine that we're pretty much the same in Ireland, I don't think it can actually be pinned down to one particular sociey like that (the US even is a whole mixture of different cultures), that we'd be slow to report our concerns to an authority or intervene. But, I don't necessarily see that as an inherently bad thing either. It would depend entirely upon the particular circumstances for me as to whether I'd consider something abusive or not, and on that basis how I would handle the situation.

I think the Turpin case is rather the extreme of the scale, and I don't think any reasonable person could have been expected to suspect just what was going on there. I think as to the neighbours coming out with stories now well hindsight is 20/20 vision, and it's easy to put the pieces together after something has happened, as opposed to being able to know with any certainty beforehand.

If I were reported to social services on suspicion of something, I'd be pretty miffed. I'd understand they were following up on a report and I wouldn't see it as invasive or intrusive on their part. Having worked with people who work in social services and the Gardaí, I know what's involved in the work they do and I appreciate the work they do, and I'm glad they do it, but I'd still be miffed that anyone would think I would be capable of ever harming a child or children. They also spend a lot of time too having to investigate malicious reports, but it's nigh on impossible to prove a report was made in bad faith.

What would it take for me to report someone I know to social services? Depends entirely upon the circumstances really. I remember doing a child protection course as part of a mentoring programme a few years back and some people there were practically itching at the bit determined to see child abuse where there was none, and take it upon themselves to deal with it, rather than inform the parents which is generally the first thing I would do, and then inform the leader in the organisation who would then liaise with the authorities. Different organisations will have general child protection guidelines which they'll then have written in accordance with their own organisational structure.

Outside of that, for example if I became aware of a child or children being targeted on social media, then in that circumstances what I've often done is informed the parents, then the Gardaí, and in one case where my own child was targeted I've informed the Principal of the school because the person had sent friend requests to a number of children in the school, and they were all there on that person's profile, as well as comments from some rather angry parents. I personally preferred to assist the Gardaí in any way I could to carry out a proper investigation rather than go all vigilante myself.

pwurple

You know, it is a dilema.

I have been thinking about something someone said about their child recently.. it was about food, and I don’t know if they were joking or not. They said their two year old was a very fussy eater, and the only way to get her to eat was to hold her arms down and spoon it in. They didn’t say it to me, it was at a birthday party and they were talking to another parents, I don’t even have the context , I overheard it. If that is happening, that sounds like child abuse. They could have been exaggerating, it could be just talk, I don’t know them.

My instinct is to find out if that IS happening... i feel that is the right thing to do. But how. Don’t know them well enough to invite myself over. And I don’t have anything concrete to report to anyone. Be a gossip and ask the other parents about them? Then i am a malicious rumour spreader...

So I can see why people who had a half suspicion stay out of it.

Maybe gossip can be a good thing afterall?

Big Bag of Chips

I think unless people KNOW something as fact they are slow to report it. Often times even when people know something they are slow to interfere. I think it's normal. If I saw one instance of something with a parent I know I wouldn't automatically run to report them. I'd have to see a pattern. And seeing a pattern of abuse in a family that you don't have much to do with is always difficult.

I lived in a small cul de sac with 16 houses. Very small road. 8 houses facing 8 (4 sets of 2 semi-detached houses facing another 4). We knew the neighbours pretty well who were joined to us. We knew the other next door neighbours to say hello and have a chat in the garden. And we knew the people across the road similarly to say hello and have a quick chat about nothing. I wouldn't even recognise any of the other neighbours if I passed them in the street. I now live rurally in a very close knit area, but I still could go weeks without seeing any of the neighbours especially in the winter when we're not out as much. I don't know what goes on in anyone's house.

Add to that that abusers are good at keeping their abuse hidden and keeping their victims hidden or too terrified to speak out then I don't think its strange that the neighbours wouldn't have noticed too much with this family. Apparently one neighbour didn't even know there were children in the house. I can easily see how that would happen. You might see something strange, but not strange enough to report. The world is full of weird people doing weird things. And yes, now knowing what we know of course 12 children kneeling and praying at 3am is weird, but is it something you would report to authorities? Its just so difficult, and I think after the event people will always think "what if". It's like in the Jamie Bolger case, was it 41 people they passed, some who spoke to them on the way. I think the judge even said if 1 of those 41 intervened it would have been so different. But how or why would you intervene? Nobody could have even imagined what was going to happen to that child. So realistically there was no a whole lot anyone would have noticed to intervene and remove the child from the two boys.

I'm always shocked to hear that these things go on. But not shocked to hear nobody really suspected much.

catrionanic

This topic has reminded me of a child in a street we used to live in. It was a cul de sac of approx 20 houses and a small at the end, and the kids used to all play in the street. There was this one little girl who could only have been two max, who used to be let out to play on her own. She had an older brother but he was always off with his friends, so it was essentially a two year old running around unaccompanied. The parents obviously weren’t concerned about her meeting traffic or falling into the little river or straying further afield than she should. This was in the late 90s.

More noticeable than this though, was that she used to come out to play wearing only her nappy - and a nappy that was so full and heavy that it was hanging off her. It obviously was rarely being changed.

I was only a child myself at the time of 10 or 11, but I remember being concerned and wanting to change her nappy for her. I told my parents about it, and my friends told their parents, but afaik nobody did or said anything.

I feel sad now thinking of what became of her.

Owryan

I recently completed a placement in social work and the consensus amongst staff was that people are slow to report suspicions but things are slowly starting to improve.

By and large doctors, nurses, gardai and other professionals are now much quicker to send in a referral but from "non professionals" it is usually the extended family who make the call.

Surprisingly enough one of the problems is that since Ireland is a small country and everyone knows everyone there is a fear that they will be found out for making the report. Whereas in the USA there is a much greater disconnect so people tend to mind their own business.

strandroad

Neyite wrote: »

I'm referring of course to the Turpin case that's unfolding in the US. (I think we might be limited as to what we might be able to say with regards to an ongoing case but I'm sure any statements backed up by stuff linked publicly is fine) I know in the US in general people are more distrustful of authority, and seeing a line of kids out at 3am kneeling and praying might be brushed off as being strict parents but I really struggle to understand the neighbours who witnessed all the really odd stuff and never joined the dots enough to pick up the phone.

I do think that US is different. There are so many fundamentalists, homeschoolers, mini sects etc that to see such sights is not as jarring as you'd think. When a family member lived there their neighbours homeschooled their 5 or so kids, and simply from talking to the neighbours you could see that they have absolutely no intellectual ability to teach anyone anything, they were making their kids memorise some sort of curriculum books - but it was their freedom to do so and you couldn't do anything. As an observer, it desensitises you pretty quick.

deisemum

I have reported ongoing child abuse to social services, so have my neighbours - waste of time and I can see why social workers have such a bad reputation both with the general public and other healthcare professionals.

The only ones that would do anything were the gardai. I have witnessed social workers repeatedly squandering resources.

evolving_doors

deisemum wrote: »

I have reported ongoing child abuse to social services, so have my neighbours - waste of time and I can see why social workers have such a bad reputation both with the general public and other healthcare professionals.

The only ones that would do anything were the gardai. I have witnessed social workers repeatedly squandering resources.

Tusla?

deisemum

evolving_doors wrote: »

Tusla?

Yep

pawdee

strandroad wrote: »

I do think that US is different. There are so many fundamentalists, homeschoolers, mini sects etc that to see such sights is not as jarring as you'd think. When a family member lived there their neighbours homeschooled their 5 or so kids, and simply from talking to the neighbours you could see that they have absolutely no intellectual ability to teach anyone anything, they were making their kids memorise some sort of curriculum books - but it was their freedom to do so and you couldn't do anything. As an observer, it desensitises you pretty quick.

"When you're born you get a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America, you get a front row seat. "

neris

evolving_doors wrote: »

Tusla?

a great bunch of self entitled overlording idiots who love to tell people what to do but lack the necessary experiences in their area of Tusla before they move on to the next area theyve no clue in

kayaksurfbum

If you know that there are strange things happening, who do you call?

I just saw a woman advertising to mind children on mindme.ie, who i know to be in an extremely unstable house that should not have kids in it at all. I feel sick thinking that someone in good faith might leave their kids with her. The house is infested with rats, dogs inside never walked or cleaned up after, heavy drinking and lots of visits by the guards because of domestic disturbances.

I feel like I have to raise a flag to her incase something bad happens. Would mindme be responsible is something did happen?

Neyite

I think I'd probably contact the website.

shesty

To start, contact the website and see what they get back.Decide from there.But I would say they will take action.