Gangland Shootings [Mod Note in Post #1]

Criminal informer

Omackeral wrote: »

He's a rat that fella. If they get him it's game over.

He's directly involved with Prawo Jazdy, who's also a rat.

Both Scumbags.


(Serious)
If they were been blackmailed, is it totally different than been passing information for personal gain in the eyes of the law?

Commanchie

Criminal informer wrote: »

He's directly involved with Prawo Jazdy, who's also a rat.

Both Scumbags.


(Serious)
If they were been blackmailed, is it totally different than been passing information for personal gain in the eyes of the law?

Not really.

Trevor Gleeson comes to mind and the high court ruling.

sasta le

Will I Am Not wrote: »

30-40 lads running towards Balbriggan train station about an hour ago. I wonder where it is happening tonight?

Irish Eastern European or African youths?

Kermit.de.frog

Conservative wrote: »

I don't get the commuter train very often these days but I was flabbergasted by the numbers of Africans disembarking at Balbriggan a few years ago.

Same.

I was surprised at just how fast the change took place.

To say the demographic change on the train to town was noticeable would be a serious understatement.

And not to put to fine a point on it - it was primarily not a "professional" looking demographic - more face half covered, rouge sort of vibe most of the time.

Curiously this seemed only afternoon, evening trains. On the morning trains very few, if any. I don't think it takes much leap of the imagination to know why that might be. I know people work at different times etc but...i'd take a stab in the dark and say most unemployed. Might not be right but that would be my instinct on it.

cursai

That new RTE series Taken Down is gonna change a lot of opinions on race in Ireland...

Wibbs

I know let's have Ireland copy what other (usually ex colonising) nations of Europe have done and attempt the "multicultural" experiment here. Surely this time it'll work? Right? Ehhhh.... no. IMHO it is doomed to failure and we'll have the same crap as England, Germany, France, Holland, Italy etc.

Does Ireland have existing social problems? Hell yes it does, though by comparison to most countries in the world ours are pretty minimal. But it beggars belief why anyone would seriously think of importing more social problems on top. Social problems that are plain to see in any country where this experiment has been run. Not just for the locals either, just as much for the immigrants and especially their kids and grandkids.

Oh and for those who want to trot out the tired old story of "the Irish were immigrants too". At the height of that it was a very different time and culture. The Irish(and everyone else) who showed up at Ellis island didn't have social welfare when they landed. They sank or swam, or relied on charity. Go to the US today, if they'll let you in and you'll get feck all social support if you don't want to or can't find work. Today some "refugee" from wherever, mostly young fighting aged men BTW, once they get into Europe they almost inevitably head for the countries with the best social welfare support, going through several safe countries along the way. Which is apparently illegal, but hey let's ignore that.

All Seeing Eye

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Same.

I was surprised at just how fast the change took place.

To say the demographic change on the train to town was noticeable would be a serious understatement.

And not to put to fine a point on it - it was primarily not a "professional" looking demographic - more face half covered, rouge sort of vibe most of the time.

Curiously this seemed only afternoon, evening trains. On the morning trains very few, if any. I don't think it takes much leap of the imagination to know why that might be. I know people work at different times etc but...i'd take a stab in the dark and say most unemployed. Might not be right but that would be my instinct on it.

The proportion of Africans in Balbriggan is definitely under represented on the morning commute to Dublin either on the train or the motorway. Another thing I’ve seen is African men just pissing on the side of the road during the day as if it’s normal I suppose that’s something you could do in the slums of Africa no bother and it wouldn’t be remarked on.

MFPM

Wibbs wrote: »

I know let's have Ireland copy what other (usually ex colonising) nations of Europe have done and attempt the "multicultural" experiment here. Surely this time it'll work? Right? Ehhhh.... no. IMHO it is doomed to failure and we'll have the same crap as England, Germany, France, Holland, Italy etc.

Does Ireland have existing social problems? Hell yes it does, though by comparison to most countries in the world ours are pretty minimal. But it beggars belief why anyone would seriously think of importing more social problems on top. Social problems that are plain to see in any country where this experiment has been run. Not just for the locals either, just as much for the immigrants and especially their kids and grandkids.

Oh and for those who want to trot out the tired old story of "the Irish were immigrants too". At the height of that it was a very different time and culture. The Irish(and everyone else) who showed up at Ellis island didn't have social welfare when they landed. They sank or swam, or relied on charity. Go to the US today, if they'll let you in and you'll get feck all social support if you don't want to or can't find work. Today some "refugee" from wherever, mostly young fighting aged men BTW, once they get into Europe they almost inevitably head for the countries with the best social welfare support, going through several safe countries along the way. Which is apparently illegal, but hey let's ignore that.

Wibbs wrote: »

I know let's have Ireland copy what other (usually ex colonising) nations of Europe have done and attempt the "multicultural" experiment here. Surely this time it'll work? Right? Ehhhh.... no. IMHO it is doomed to failure and we'll have the same crap as England, Germany, France, Holland, Italy etc.

Perhaps Ireland doesn't have to 'copy', perhaps 'we' could learn from mistakes made in other countries? Undoubtedly there have been problems in some countries but you imply that the whole process of immigration has been solely problematic. Furthermore by implication again, you seem to lay much of the fault for problems at the feet of the migrants - what about policy makers, poor integration strategies, attitudes of the indigenous population - these play no part in your view?

Does Ireland have existing social problems? Hell yes it does, though by comparison to most countries in the world ours are pretty minimal.

Like much of your post this is a somewhat generalised statement - by what do you mean 'social' problems and by what measure do you compare them to other countries and what other countries?

But it beggars belief why anyone would seriously think of importing more social problems on top. Social problems that are plain to see in any country where this experiment has been run. Not just for the locals either, just as much for the immigrants and especially their kids and grandkids.

Again it's hard to discern what point your making as it all very general and non specific but are you suggesting that migration policy should be based on a pejorative view point that ALL migrants bring social problems thus they shouldn't be let in, that's quite an environmentally deterministic viewpoint, no?

Oh and for those who want to trot out the tired old story of "the Irish were immigrants too". At the height of that it was a very different time and culture. The Irish(and everyone else) who showed up at Ellis island didn't have social welfare when they landed. They sank or swam, or relied on charity. Go to the US today, if they'll let you in and you'll get feck all social support if you don't want to or can't find work.

That's true but they did put pressure on the jobs markets, the hospitals, the schools - took charity from the 'native' population. Many, many Irish in the US also turned to criminality too - indeed in a number of cities Irish mobsters dominated - so the Irish weren't the paragons of virtue that your one sided analysis suggests.

Today some "refugee" from wherever, mostly young fighting aged men BTW, once they get into Europe they almost inevitably head for the countries with the best social welfare support, going through several safe countries along the way. Which is apparently illegal, but hey let's ignore that.

And like all migrants they go where they stand a better chance of surviving and thriving - why did the Irish emigrate to Australia, the US, London etc why not - Brazil, Mexico, Greece? It's entirely logical that people seek out countries with welfare so they can get settled but there is no reason to suggest migrants don't want to work, they are often precluded from doing so and where they are working, they get accused of robbing 'our jobs' so they can't win, you seem to fall in to that trap judging by your post.

MFPM

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

The proportion of Africans in Balbriggan is definitely under represented on the morning commute to Dublin either on the train or the motorway. Another thing I’ve seen is African men just pissing on the side of the road during the day as if it’s normal I suppose that’s something you could do in the slums of Africa no bother and it wouldn’t be remarked on.

Perhaps this might partially explain it, you haven't offered any explanation yourself although you've certainly implied on.

Africans ‘the most disadvantaged’ group in the Irish labour market, according to ESRI

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/discrimination-at-work-you-see-africans-with-phds-driving-taxis-1.3692510

Another thing I’ve seen is African men just pissing on the side of the road during the day as if it’s normal I suppose that’s something you could do in the slums of Africa no bother and it wouldn’t be remarked on.

I've seen many, many Irish men pissing on the side of the road too - take a trip down Jones road on any big match day and you'll see plenty. What's their excuse as they can't use the 'slums of Africa' as one.

Oh do stay classy won't you - based on this post you're quite the charmer.

Wibbs

MFPM wrote: »

Perhaps Ireland doesn't have to 'copy', perhaps 'we' could learn from mistakes made in other countries?

Hope springs eternal. The usual "but this time we'll do it right", with zero evidence of that and zero examples of how "we" might do it better than every other country in Europe. "We" are doing the same as all of the rest of them did and do. Don't see any innovative thinking going on here.

Undoubtedly there have been problems in some countries but you imply that the whole process of immigration has been solely problematic.

I don't mean to imply. I'll state it plainly: In my opinion multiculturalism in its current incarnation is extremely problematic and demonstrably so. And for all groups concerned. Once non indigenous groups reach a certain population size you see problems time and time again. Ghettoisation and its attendant issues the obvious one.

Furthermore by implication again, you seem to lay much of the fault for problems at the feet of the migrants - what about policy makers, poor integration strategies, attitudes of the indigenous population - these play no part in your view?

You must have missed the part where I said: "Not just for the locals either, just as much for the immigrants and especially their kids and grandkids". Multiculturalism affects all. The indigenous types as well as the newcomers.

The problem with the multiculturalist view is a naivete that we can all hold hands and make the world better, if only we did X or Y. It's laudable to be sure, but tends to ignore on the ground realities and basic human nature. We're innately tribal. "Race" just makes it easier to mark one tribe out from another. Look at Ulster. Centuries of strife and they're the exact same "race". Different tribes though. Irish culture as it is can be extremely tribal and local.

Like much of your post this is a somewhat generalised statement - by what do you mean 'social' problems and by what measure do you compare them to other countries and what other countries?

Social problems. The usual ones. Underdeveloped areas, homelessness, unemployment, wealth gaps. Again by most metrics Ireland is ahead of the game compared to most countries in the world. Do we need to increase those existing issues and add to that list ethnic and "racial" divisions?

Again it's hard to discern what point your making as it all very general and non specific but are you suggesting that migration policy should be based on a pejorative view point that ALL migrants bring social problems thus they shouldn't be let in, that's quite an environmentally deterministic viewpoint, no?

No. I'm not that black and white(no pun) about it. Qualified people with skills that we need here from mostly First world countries are no issue, regardless of "race". Larger movements of mostly under or uneducated migrants are.

Oh and I'm only too happy to say I'd be of an environmentally deterministic viewpoint. I am no cultural equivalence type that's for sure. Some cultures are simply better than others and in measurable ways. Those cultures deeply affect those who grow up in them positively and negatively. Take Travellers. Are Travellers innately negative? Certainly not, but their culture largely is. Same "race" as the rest of us, slightly different culture, different outcomes. Look at immigrant populations from the more conservative Islamic cultures. Time after time polls and research shows a conservative lean to their populations compared to background. Negative attitudes to homosexuality an obvious one. That so many self described "liberals" are so keen to import decidedly non liberal ideals and cultures is a head scratcher.

That's true but they did put pressure on the jobs markets, the hospitals, the schools - took charity from the 'native' population. Many, many Irish in the US also turned to criminality too - indeed in a number of cities Irish mobsters dominated - so the Irish weren't the paragons of virtue that your one sided analysis suggests.

Not once did I say they were and I agree with you. Ghettoisation, a lack of social supports and tribalism gave rise to that, just like it did with Italians and Chinese and Russians and Jews among others. In a country founded on immigration.

And like all migrants hey go where they stand a better chance of surviving and thriving

Which is illegal under EU law, which doesn't seem to trouble you. Refugees are legally obliged to seek asylum in the first safe country they find themselves in and unless someone steps off a plane in Shannon airport that isn't Ireland. And never mind that we already have an overstuffed and inefficient social welfare system paid for by the working population of Ireland, we're also expected to pay for migrants too?

why did the Irish emigrate to Australia, the US, London etc why not - Brazil, Mexico, Greece?

Actually quite the number went to South America, inc. Brazil, Chile and especially Argentina. Indeed Mexico has elected a few presidents of Irish stock. The main reason more went to the US, Oz and the like is they speak the same language and there were existing Irish communities there. Again human nature. We like to stick with "our own kind" for support and a feeling of "home". Naturally. And we're starting to see that in immigrant populations here.

It's entirely logical that people seek out countries with welfare so they can get settled but there is no reason to suggest migrants don't want to work, they are often precluded from doing so and where they are working, they get accused of robbing 'our jobs' so they can't win, you seem to fall in to that trap judging by your post.

There are a load of non Irish people holding down jobs in companies like Google and Intel and the like. No issue there. How many are going to find work coming from subsaharan Africa and the crappier parts of the ME? Their kids might, but as we've seen in every single other EU country that has had generational immigrant populations their kids and grandkids, who should feel Dutch, or French, or German, don't quite feel Dutch, or French, or German enough for themselves or the locals. The first generation of immigrants rarely riot and rarely become radical, it's nearly always their kids and grandkids, as they know they've been sold a pup, the lie of "diversity" and "melting pots".

Africans ‘the most disadvantaged’ group in the Irish labour market, according to ESRI

I don't doubt it for a moment. I've actually met a Nigerian lad with a masters in engineering driving a taxi. And yes it is discrimination. I don't doubt that either, but it is also human nature. We can rail against it for the nonsense it is, but that's largely how many, if not most humans work in reality. No amount of laws or attempts at positive discrimination or quotas will change that by much. If anything it'll rile more people up. How do you propose to change it? Hope?

Kermit.de.frog

Only a matter of time before European countries are going to put up barriers between each other and start closing their borders.

I don't see Schengen lasting another 10 years.

blinding

Why would you bring this carry on in to your Country . Irish Politicians hate Ireland . They prove it all the time .

Stephen15

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Only a matter of time before European countries are going to put up barriers between each other and start closing their borders.

I don't see Schengen lasting another 10 years.

Schegen would work if Europe had tougher external borders. Let's face it the problems aren't caused by white Europeans they are being caused by people from Africa, Asia and the Middle East. While ordinary Europeans live in poverty migrants are given every welfare benefit decided by the UN and the EU.

Stop wasting money on forgein aid and helping rapefugees and start helping our own.

Stephen15

blinding wrote: »

Why would you bring this carry on in to your Country . Irish Politicians hate Ireland . They prove it all the time .

Nail on the head. If they were true patriots they would adopt foreign policies similar to Hungary, Poland, Austria, Czech Republic and Italy.

CinemaGuy45

https://www.bitchute.com/video/ZzfIcPrpQzyV/

All Seeing Eye

MFPM wrote: »

Perhaps this might partially explain it, you haven't offered any explanation yourself although you've certainly implied on.

What I’m saying here is Africans have been in Balbriggan for at least 18 years so they have no excuse not to be part of the normal workforce. From what I see they are work shy and would rather get benefits or work 25 hours a week in a nursing home and keep most of their benefits as this is still deemed part time work by SW.

MFPM wrote: »

I've seen many, many Irish men pissing on the side of the road too - take a trip down Jones road on any big match day and you'll see plenty. What's their excuse as they can't use the 'slums of Africa' as one.

I’d say you have. Slightly different from some African pissing at the side of the link road in Balbriggan at 1130 on a weekday morning while women on their morning walk are going by. It’s likely he doesn’t know any better because he was brought up in a shanty town.

CinemaGuy45

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

Interesting

https://www.bitchute.com/video/mohmBVO1EdMG/

yourdeadwright

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

What I’m saying here is Africans have been in Balbriggan for at least 18 years so they have no excuse not to be part of the normal workforce. From what I see they are work shy and would rather get benefits or work 25 hours a week in a nursing home and keep most of their benefits as this is still deemed part time work by SW.




But the African's who caused these problems are kids /teenagers still in school ,
I'm yet to here of many if any incidents with Africans who are old enough to be out working ?

All Seeing Eye

MFPM wrote: »

Perhaps this might partially explain it, you haven't offered any explanation yourself although you've certainly implied on.



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/discrimination-at-work-you-see-africans-with-phds-driving-taxis-1.3692510



I've seen many, many Irish men pissing on the side of the road too - take a trip down Jones road on any big match day and you'll see plenty. What's their excuse as they can't use the 'slums of Africa' as one.

Oh do stay classy won't you - based on this post you're quite the charmer.

yourdeadwright wrote: »

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

What I’m saying here is Africans have been in Balbriggan for at least 18 years so they have no excuse not to be part of the normal workforce. From what I see they are work shy and would rather get benefits or work 25 hours a week in a nursing home and keep most of their benefits as this is still deemed part time work by SW.




But the African's who caused these problems are kids /teenagers still in school ,
I'm yet to here of many if any incidents with Africans who are old enough to be out working ?

I was asked to elaborate on another point I made. The whole gang thing is all about upbringing. Parents sitting at home living off the tax payer while not looking after their kids. What makes it worse is they’ve come out of their way to live like this. We’ve enough home grown wasters as it is why are we taking on more from outside the state.

MFPM

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

What I’m saying here is Africans have been in Balbriggan for at least 18 years so they have no excuse not to be part of the normal workforce. From what I see they are work shy and would rather get benefits or work 25 hours a week in a nursing home and keep most of their benefits as this is still deemed part time work by SW.




I’d say you have. Slightly different from some African pissing at the side of the link road in Balbriggan at 1130 on a weekday morning while women on their morning walk are going by. It’s likely he doesn’t know any better because he was brought up in a shanty town.

What I’m saying here is Africans have been in Balbriggan for at least 18 years so they have no excuse not to be part of the normal workforce.

The recent figures illustrated that there was 16% unemployment among 'Africans' thus 84% are employed in some capacity so clearly the vast majority of 'Africans' are in what you describe the 'normal workforce'. Secondly I posted an article indicating an issue of alleged discrimination, yet you seamlessly ignored it.

From what I see they are work shy and would rather get benefits or work 25 hours a week in a nursing home and keep most of their benefits as this is still deemed part time work by SW.

Perhaps you 'see' what you want to 'see'? I've just pointed out that 84% are working in some capacity, how does that match your 'work shy' analysis? As for the alleged 25 hours a week work and keep benefits - are you suggesting that's an 'African' specific measure, if so do back it up with evidence, if not why raise it specifically against 'Africans'?

I’d say you have.

I have and so have you if you're being honest.

Slightly different from some African pissing at the side of the link road in Balbriggan at 1130 on a weekday morning while women on their morning walk are going by.

I'm not fully sure why one form of alleged public urination is deemed more acceptable than another, perhaps you could explain? So it's ONE person and yet you seem comfortable using it against an entire community?

It’s likely he doesn’t know any better because he was brought up in a shanty town

Firstly, can you indicate how you know the background of the individual in question, did you survey him with questions of national origin and the place he resided or are you once again using a rather dated stereotype.

All in all 'All seeing eye' you seem to only see what you want to see and what you see seems on the face of your posts to be tinged with a healthy dollop of prejudice.

MFPM

Wibbs wrote: »

The usual "but this time we'll do it right", with zero evidence of that and zero examples of how "we" might do it better than every other country in Europe. "We" are doing the same as all of the rest of them did and do. Don't see any innovative thinking going on here.

Might I suggest if one was to adopt your approach across a range of issues that one would never try to improve, change or fix anything. Thankfully that is not the approach of policy makers. It is necessary learn so as not to repeat past errors, it can take time and elements of trial and error but it's better than the regressive approach you argue be adopted. An essential difference between you and I is that you are allowing your prejudice cloud any sort of objective analysis - you see migration and multi-culturalism as negative and problematic and while there are problems it doesn't mean there aren't positives. I think in many ways Ireland is a far better place socially and culturally than the 1970s/80s and migrants of all colour/nationality and faiths have added to that and on the whole it's been a positive experience for Ireland.

I don't mean to imply. I'll state it plainly: In my opinion multiculturalism in its current incarnation is extremely problematic and demonstrably so.

That's a meaningless statement unless you add some content. How is multi-culturalism problematic?

Once non indigenous groups reach a certain population size you see problems time and time again.

That's a tired cliche. What population size, what percentage, give us some ideas? What 'problems', how do you characterise 'problems'?

Ghettoisation and its attendant issues the obvious one. You must have missed the part where I said: "Not just for the locals either, just as much for the immigrants and especially their kids and grandkids". Multiculturalism affects all. The indigenous types as well as the newcomers.

'Ghettoisation' is a planning and housing policy failure it's not a failure of multi-culturalism.

The problem with the multiculturalist view is a naivete that we can all hold hands and make the world better, if only we did X or Y. It's laudable to be sure, but tends to ignore on the ground realities and basic human nature. We're innately tribal. "Race" just makes it easier to mark one tribe out from another. Look at Ulster. Centuries of strife and they're the exact same "race". Different tribes though. Irish culture as it is can be extremely tribal and local.

Frankly, that's nonsense. People have migrated for millions of years, FFS, this island wouldn't be populated without migration. Multi-culturalism precisely takes account of the fact that we are not all the same, it celebrates different cultures, traditions etc. People are not born racist or homophobic or Islamophobic or have anti traveller view points, it's learned behaviour from parents and sometimes political leaders when they wish to divide and rule as with Trump or other such buffoons.

As for 'Ulster' - you're being deliberately disingenuous and also indicating your ignorance. Ulster is a province consciously divided by an Imperial force over a sustained period of time, there is a huge legacy of division that is still fostered by sectarian political parties for their own political ends. Children are generally educated separately etc. However, there have been many occasions where people have stood shoulder to shoulder on peace marches, in Trade Unions, in workplaces etc. Are you suggesting that only one section of the North's community march in the Pride demo for example? Ironically, inward migration of East Europeans and Africans in the North has been a good thing because they know little of the sectarian sh!t.

Social problems. The usual ones. Underdeveloped areas, homelessness, unemployment, wealth gaps. Again by most metrics Ireland is ahead of the game compared to most countries in the world.

Your point about Ireland is arguable - we're miles behind the health and education services of Scandanavia for example.

Do we need to increase those existing issues and add to that list ethnic and "racial" divisions?

As I said earlier if that happens it will be consciously introduced by people who are racist or bigoted and use lazy analysis to suit an agenda. The way to combat those attitudes is to challenge them not give into them as you're advocating.

No. I'm not that black and white(no pun) about it. Qualified people with skills that we need here from mostly First world countries are no issue, regardless of "race". Larger movements of mostly under or uneducated migrants are.

How utterly humane of you - educated, wealthy people, come in, come in - poor, fleeing war, terror - f@ck off! If that approach had been adopted to the Irish in the past - this country would have been more screwed than it was.

Take Travellers. Are Travellers innately negative? Certainly not, but their culture largely is. Same "race" as the rest of us, slightly different culture, different outcomes. Look at immigrant populations from the more conservative Islamic cultures. Time after time polls and research shows a conservative lean to their populations compared to background. Negative attitudes to homosexuality an obvious one. That so many self described "liberals" are so keen to import decidedly non liberal ideals and cultures is a head scratcher.

Maybe they could join the DUP up north with some of those attitudes? Conservative values and issues of that matter are not a reason to stop someone coming into Ireland - remember 38% of the Irish population voted against same-sex marriage. If they are coming to propagate hatred and division, that's a different matter but clearly the overwhelming majority of people don't.

Which is illegal under EU law, which doesn't seem to trouble you. Refugees are legally obliged to seek asylum in the first safe country they find themselves in and unless someone steps off a plane in Shannon airport that isn't Ireland.

Illegality never stopped Irish migrants. People in difficult situations will find the best path to a country that they feel offers them the best chance in life - it's what you call 'Human Nature' - we seek refuge in what we perceive to be the best place not the first place!

And never mind that we already have an overstuffed and inefficient social welfare system paid for by the working population of Ireland, we're also expected to pay for migrants too?

Do we? We're at almost full employment. Yes if migrants are entitled to SW, you pay. I haven't noted any outrage from you on behalf of the taxpayer for the massive amount of corporate welfare we're paying - tax incentives for REITs and other elements of the property industry - the recent budget made further changes with regards capital gains tax for landlords.

Actually quite the number went to South America, inc. Brazil, Chile and especially Argentina. Indeed Mexico has elected a few presidents of Irish stock.

I'm sure there a more countries beyond those mentioned where Irish people migrated but I'm discussing the dominant trends and their destinations but then again you knew that. The Latin America issue was a slightly different matter and well you know it and Bernardo O'Higgins was hardly typical.

The main reason more went to the US, Oz and the like is they speak the same language and there were existing Irish communities there. Again human nature. We like to stick with "our own kind" for support and a feeling of "home". Naturally. And we're starting to see that in immigrant populations here.

Of course language was a factor but economics was the dominant factor and well you know it. Why were their exiting Irish communities there already, economics again? Lucky for the second lot there weren't people like you in Australia and the US or they wouldn't have got in.

There are a load of non Irish people holding down jobs in companies like Google and Intel and the like. No issue there. How many are going to find work coming from subsaharan Africa and the crappier parts of the ME? Their kids might, but as we've seen in every single other EU country that has had generational immigrant populations their kids and grandkids, who should feel Dutch, or French, or German, don't quite feel Dutch, or French, or German enough for themselves or the locals. The first generation of immigrants rarely riot and rarely become radical, it's nearly always their kids and grandkids, as they know they've been sold a pup, the lie of "diversity" and "melting pots".

Again with the f@ck off to the poor attitude. Secondly, who do you think is driving up the rents in Dublin for example? It's the 'non-Irish' holding down jobs - so they're taking much needed accommodation, driving up rents and taking jobs and you're celebrating them despite those pressures - you've rather exposed yourself here haven't you?

And yes it is discrimination. I don't doubt that either, but it is also human nature.

Interesting that you essentially endorse discrimination here based on a one sided and rather disingenuous version of 'Human Nature'.

Deebles McBeebles

Stephen15 wrote: »

Stop wasting money on forgein aid and helping rapefugees and start helping our own.

Donald?

Wibbs

MFPM wrote: »

Might I suggest if one was to adopt your approach across a range of issues that one would never try to improve, change or fix anything. Thankfully that is not the approach of policy makers. It is necessary learn so as not to repeat past errors, it can take time and elements of trial and error but it's better than the regressive approach you argue be adopted.

"Policy makers"? Wow your naivets strong. It may be new here in Ireland but the same policy makers have been planning for decades across Europe and has it gotten better or worse in that time? Answers on a postcard please.

An essential difference between you and I is that you are allowing your prejudice cloud any sort of objective analysis - you see migration and multi-culturalism as negative and problematic and while there are problems it doesn't mean there aren't positives. I think in many ways Ireland is a far better place socially and culturally than the 1970s/80s and migrants of all colour/nationality and faiths have added to that and on the whole it's been a positive experience for Ireland.

Ireland is in a mostly better place today than in the 70's 80's and those seeds were sown long before we had an immigrant population.

I love how you assume my prejudice by the way. That's the go to "argument" mind you. Point out obvious flaws with multiculturalism and yep, must be prejudiced. Next step; racist! It may have escaped your dogma but I have pointed out it's usually the kids and grandkids of immigrants who have to pay for this third hand philosophy of yours.

That's a meaningless statement unless you add some content. How is multi-culturalism problematic?

Does a largely monocultural nation have ethnic strife? No. Does a largely multicultural nation have ethnic strife. Yep. This is seen throughout Europe and has been seen since the second world war. And as you seem to be hard of reading, I'll repeat it. Again: This affects the immigrant population just as badly, if not worse than the indigenous. The first generation have it bad enough, subsequent generations have it worse and this has been repeated in every single European country that has ethnic populations that get beyond a certain size. This is undeniable, though continue to deny it you most certainly will.

'Ghettoisation' is a planning and housing policy failure it's not a failure of multi-culturalism.

Again you completely ignore or want to ignore human nature. This is not a forced thing like the building and expansion of Jewish ghettos in the run up to WW2(though the seems to confuse some. The word "ghettoisation" makes it somewhat understandable) Like minded people want to live with and hang around with each other and build their own communities with their own shops and places of worship etc. They choose to do this. Again this is repeated throughout the world in every country with immigrant populations. There's a reason you have Little Italys and Chinatowns in many cities built on the bones of colonies. You can't "plan" this out of people. What are you going to do? Force people to live away from people they want and choose to live with?

Frankly, that's nonsense. People have migrated for millions of years, FFS, this island wouldn't be populated without migration.

The word you're looking for that is more accurate is colonised. As far back as when Modern Humans left Africa they weren't going into empty lands. There were people already there. And where are they now?

Multi-culturalism precisely takes account of the fact that we are not all the same, it celebrates different cultures, traditions etc.

By what measure? Many cultures rub up against European liberal enlightenment thought. Are they worth celebrating?

People are not born racist or homophobic or Islamophobic or have anti traveller view points, it's learned behaviour from parents and sometimes political leaders when they wish to divide and rule as with Trump or other such buffoons.

The details differ with culture, but I would contend that we are born with an innate sense of "them" and "us".

As for 'Ulster' - you're being deliberately disingenuous and also indicating your ignorance.

You

---

country mile

---

my point.

Your point about Ireland is arguable - we're miles behind the health and education services of Scandanavia for example.

Thankfully we're also miles behind their social problems concerning ethnic populations too.

As I said earlier if that happens it will be consciously introduced by people who are racist or bigoted and use lazy analysis to suit an agenda. The way to combat those attitudes is to challenge them not give into them as you're advocating.

Hasn't worked yet. But this time we'll be different... Do you even begin to wonder why such agendas by racists find such favour? If multiculturalism was such a natural state of humanity it would surely be a hard sell, yet as we've seen, again in every single country which has pursued the policy it's an extremely easy sell.

How utterly humane of you - educated, wealthy people, come in, come in - poor, fleeing war, terror - f@ck off!

Essentially yes. Never mind that the vast majority of the current crop of "refugees" are not "fleeing terror". Given the majority are young men, where are their families, their sisters and mothers? Funny, I were fleeing war and terror I'd hope I'd bring my rellies with me... Never mind that how do you train people into being able to work in a largely tech based culture?

If that approach had been adopted to the Irish in the past - this country would have been more screwed than it was.

Annnnnd... we're back to this old saw. Again. The Irish were welcomed, more like let in to places because in the vast majority of cases the countries were colonies looking for working bodies. The more the merrier. And when they got there the social safety nets were almost nil and signs of NO dogs, no Blacks, no Irish were common enough. It's a very different scenario being played out in Europe today.

Illegality never stopped Irish migrants. People in difficult situations will find the best path to a country that they feel offers them the best chance in life - it's what you call 'Human Nature' - we seek refuge in what we perceive to be the best place not the first place!

So ignore the law. It's OK if you're a "refugee". Cool beans.

Do we? We're at almost full employment. Yes if migrants are entitled to SW, you pay. I haven't noted any outrage from you on behalf of the taxpayer for the massive amount of corporate welfare we're paying - tax incentives for REITs and other elements of the property industry - the recent budget made further changes with regards capital gains tax for landlords.

Hate to break it to you Ted, but I'm not gonna fit in the box you have marked out for me, so that won't wash as an argument aimed at me. I most certainly have issues with corporate welfare and major issues with the property industry. Never mind major questions and issues with the financial sector. And overall how successive governments have screwed over the average Irish person to some degree or other. We went from being one of the few nations on earth with no national debt to owing over a hundred billion to the financial sector because of a couple of cretins and backhanders behind closed doors. And all I have ranted about before.

I'm sure there a more countries beyond those mentioned where Irish people migrated but I'm discussing the dominant trends and their destinations but then again you knew that. The Latin America issue was a slightly different matter and well you know it and Bernardo O'Higgins was hardly typical.

Of course language was a factor but economics was the dominant factor and well you know it. Why were their exiting Irish communities there already, economics again? Lucky for the second lot there weren't people like you in Australia and the US or they wouldn't have got in.

Language was a huge factor. To the degree that Irish immigrants abandoned the Irish language almost completely. And again you're using examples of colonies. Countries based on and utterly reliant on mass immigration. Why do you think transportation to the colonies was in play for crimes for so long? They didn't go willingly. And every imperial power in Europe did it. Ireland is not America. Ireland is not a colony. Ireland has an existing growing population at replacement levels, unlike damn near every other European nation. Ireland is not Germany looking for more bodies to fuel it's economy and keep the old in pensions. They already pulled this stuff with the Turkish back in the day, so Merkel wasn't coming out with this outa the blue. It didn't work out to great for the Turks and I'll bet the farm it'll be worse with the current immigrant population.

Again with the f@ck off to the poor attitude.

In your head.

Secondly, who do you think is driving up the rents in Dublin for example? It's the 'non-Irish' holding down jobs - so they're taking much needed accommodation, driving up rents and taking jobs and you're celebrating them despite those pressures - you've rather exposed yourself here haven't you?

Hardly. This has a grain of truth in the environs of Google HQ, but the percentages of foreign workers even there is in the minority. The rent increases are being driven by bad planning, greed, governmental failures, the building industry and all of an Irish making.

Funny how you quoted but missed/ignored this part...

Their kids might, but as we've seen in every single other EU country that has had generational immigrant populations their kids and grandkids, who should feel Dutch, or French, or German, don't quite feel Dutch, or French, or German enough for themselves or the locals. The first generation of immigrants rarely riot and rarely become radical, it's nearly always their kids and grandkids, as they know they've been sold a pup, the lie of "diversity" and "melting pots".

Interesting that you essentially endorse discrimination here based on a one sided and rather disingenuous version of 'Human Nature'.

More weasel word shifts. I didn't "endorse" discrimination. I did describe at as such and it is. And yes I would hold that it is a large part of human nature. Thousands of years of recorded history all the way current events seem to favour my "version" compared to yours. IE that the human animal has a strong tendency to a them and us mindset and a tendency for that to go south in due course.

Where multicultural societies have worked to a large degree, those societies were anything but "liberal". EG Rome and the Islamic empire(in the early days anyway). They both welcomed people in and Rome for example is notable for having no ghettos along the lines of ethnicity(and even wealth in some cases). The difference being the overarching culture and state were extremely intolerant to dissension against Rome and its culture. If a hundred men had marched through the streets of Rome with banners calling for Death to Infidels and Our law over Roman law, it's a near certainty there would have been a hundred wailing widows that night at the foot of gibbets. That stuff wouldn't have gone down well in the much later streets of Cordoba either. Multiculturalism was mostly backed by force, not modern notions of "tolerance".

mammajamma

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Only a matter of time before European countries are going to put up barriers between each other and start closing their borders.

I don't see Schengen lasting another 10 years.

10 years is extremely optimistic.

mammajamma

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Donald?

No, average person of every country.

mammajamma

yourdeadwright wrote: »

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

What I’m saying here is Africans have been in Balbriggan for at least 18 years so they have no excuse not to be part of the normal workforce. From what I see they are work shy and would rather get benefits or work 25 hours a week in a nursing home and keep most of their benefits as this is still deemed part time work by SW.




But the African's who caused these problems are kids /teenagers still in school ,
I'm yet to here of many if any incidents with Africans who are old enough to be out working ?

I think there is a reasonable enough explanation for the observation.

When an immigrant comes here, especially via special status, they must be over the moon. They must be fairly content to have so drastically improved their lives for the time being. Not lways, but its a good, reasonable guess.

Skip ahead a generation, and you've got a bunch of people who were born here, not "of" here, and have no relatable points back to the past. They form separate groups and can really go to town in taking the mickey.

2nd generation and on are where the real problems come to fruition.

So, just to add, if the poster above is correct about the 18 years thing, then this is precisely when the problems start to emerge. And lo and behold, problems are starting to emerge.

Wait until these people are adults, that's when it gets really "interesting".

pumpkin4life

mammajamma wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I think there is a reasonable enough explanation for the observation.

When an immigrant comes here, especially via special status, they must be over the moon. They must be fairly content to have so drastically improved their lives for the time being. Not lways, but its a good, reasonable guess.

Skip ahead a generation, and you've got a bunch of people who were born here, not "of" here, and have no relatable points back to the past. They form separate groups and can really go to town in taking the mickey.

2nd generation and on are where the real problems come to fruition.

So, just to add, if the poster above is correct about the 18 years thing, then this is precisely when the problems start to emerge. And lo and behold, problems are starting to emerge.

Wait until these people are adults, that's when it gets really "interesting".

Regression to the mean.

You can import the best, most intelligent, most brilliant people, but when they have kids, those kids will more closely resemble the population/genetics of the home country. This is of no surprise whatsoever and it works both ways.

There's a powder keg of crime coming to Ireland, and it's going to go off very soon, and thats without the open borders policy we have now.

mammajamma

pumpkin4life wrote: »

mammajamma wrote: »

Regression to the mean.

You can import the best, most intelligent, most brilliant people, but when they have kids, those kids will more closely resemble the population/genetics of the home country. This is of no surprise whatsoever and it works both ways.

There's a powder keg of crime coming to Ireland, and it's going to go off very soon, and thats without the open borders policy we have now.

I have no qualms in saying that I am entirely anti-immigration no matter where the people are from. There are so many pressing issues in this country, with zero hope of improvement, that I steadfastly stand by saying that immigration is one of the driving forces behind it all.

Not the only thing, there is also massive corruption, zero political choice, infrastructural failing/failures, housing, employment, lots to pick from. But immigration is up there with the best of them.

If entirely viewed as an economic issue, why is it allowed go untouched and so taboo?

MFPM

mammajamma wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I think there is a reasonable enough explanation for the observation.

When an immigrant comes here, especially via special status, they must be over the moon. They must be fairly content to have so drastically improved their lives for the time being. Not lways, but its a good, reasonable guess.

Skip ahead a generation, and you've got a bunch of people who were born here, not "of" here, and have no relatable points back to the past. They form separate groups and can really go to town in taking the mickey.

2nd generation and on are where the real problems come to fruition.

So, just to add, if the poster above is correct about the 18 years thing, then this is precisely when the problems start to emerge. And lo and behold, problems are starting to emerge.

Wait until these people are adults, that's when it gets really "interesting".

So by your logic 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation Irish are causing mayhem across the States, Australia etc? We' wont mention the huge number of 1st generation who formed a massive part of the criminal underworld in the States!!

MFPM

pumpkin4life wrote: »

mammajamma wrote: »

Regression to the mean.

You can import the best, most intelligent, most brilliant people, but when they have kids, those kids will more closely resemble the population/genetics of the home country. This is of no surprise whatsoever and it works both ways.

There's a powder keg of crime coming to Ireland, and it's going to go off very soon, and thats without the open borders policy we have now.

those kids will more closely resemble the population/genetics of the home country.

How have you arrived at that conclusion, not your opinion - hard facts?

here's a powder keg of crime coming to Ireland, and it's going to go off

Again - studies, evidence to back this assertion?

open borders policy

Ireland does not have open borders and it's at best disingenuous and at worst dishonest to make such a statement.

MFPM

mammajamma wrote: »

pumpkin4life wrote: »

I have no qualms in saying that I am entirely anti-immigration no matter where the people are from. There are so many pressing issues in this country, with zero hope of improvement, that I steadfastly stand by saying that immigration is one of the driving forces behind it all.

Not the only thing, there is also massive corruption, zero political choice, infrastructural failing/failures, housing, employment, lots to pick from. But immigration is up there with the best of them.

If entirely viewed as an economic issue, why is it allowed go untouched and so taboo?

Do you have any family members/friends/neighbours who have emigrated, are they aware of your attitude to them?

fyfe79

Wibbs wrote: »

Hope springs eternal. The usual "but this time we'll do it right", with zero evidence of that and zero examples of how "we" might do it better than every other country in Europe. "We" are doing the same as all of the rest of them did and do. Don't see any innovative thinking going on here.

The problem with the multiculturalist view is a naivete that we can all hold hands and make the world better, if only we did X or Y. It's laudable to be sure, but tends to ignore on the ground realities and basic human nature. We're innately tribal. "Race" just makes it easier to mark one tribe out from another. Look at Ulster. Centuries of strife and they're the exact same "race". Different tribes though. Irish culture as it is can be extremely tribal and local.

Especially true in Ireland I find - "The immigrants will happily mix with us and not cause problems, because sure we're sound! We're not stuck up like the French or Brits!" As if it's the host countries fault that multiculturism doesn't work. Delusional.

mammajamma

MFPM wrote: »

mammajamma wrote: »

So by your logic 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation Irish are causing mayhem across the States, Australia etc? We' wont mention the huge number of 1st generation who formed a massive part of the criminal underworld in the States!!

Some peoples fascination with the long distant past is amusing. And you mentioning the irish mafia is going against your point?!

Anyway, this is today, and it is a VASTLY different world. Apples and oranges.

mammajamma

MFPM wrote: »

mammajamma wrote: »

Do you have any family members/friends/neighbours who have emigrated, are they aware of your attitude to them?

My feelings have little relevancy when it comes to the reality of the countrys future. And besides that, I have no problem sharing my positions with anyone, because they are based on fact, not emotion.

If the entire country turned into an apocalyptic wasteland, for the sake of hyperbole, its hardly going to be comfort that "oh well, I had feelings about someone else somewhere else, so its all good".

Bullocks to that. If someone legged it to another country, my sympathies are with them. But I'm here, the rest of my family are here, and we have to look after ourselves and our own country. Its our future at stake when choosing the directions we take. And I wont be blindsided by heart over mind, nor will I be choosing policies that are detrimental to my country and my family.

And you know what, an immigrant can take the exact same stance. That's fair. They want to improve their futures and their childrens futures, they can do what they need to do. This is the reality of a non-infinite planet.

Don't try to talk me into fooking myself and my lot over, and I wont try to talk immigrants into fooking themselves and their lot over.

MFPM

mammajamma wrote: »

MFPM wrote: »

Some peoples fascination with the long distant past is amusing. And you mentioning the irish mafia is going against your point?!

Anyway, this is today, and it is a VASTLY different world. Apples and oranges.

Nice attempt at diversion and avoidance but back to the point YOU raised.

Skip ahead a generation, and you've got a bunch of people who were born here, not "of" here, and have no relatable points back to the past. They form separate groups and can really go to town in taking the mickey.

And I asked..

So by your logic 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation Irish are causing mayhem across the States, Australia etc?

And you mentioning the irish mafia is going against your point?!

It doesn't at all, it's a counter narrative to your nonsense.

Jeff.

Lads.... I've eaten some amount of popcorn reading this thread.... I'm literally sick as a small hospital and my tongue is like a camel drovers jockstrap.

ibrahimovic

@MFPM

I used to consider myself left wing, just had a read of all your posts on this thread, It's people like you that made me disenchanted with the left. The event that took place to start this thread is of genuine concern to people, you're not actually trying to understand the arguments people are making here, just going way off topic making straw man arguments, insulting people and spouting out drivel based on nothing but idealism.

I started changing my mind about this whole topic when I would see people make well thought out arguments that scrutanised mass immigration based on facts, opinion polls and logic to be shut down by people like you who would label them, put them into groups (can't take anyone seriously who uses the word Islamophobic) and defeating arguments they never made in the first place.

In one of your posts you said the the way to combat bigoted attitudes is to challenge those attitudes, you're doing a horrible job of that yourself.

All Seeing Eye

MFPM wrote: »

The recent figures illustrated that there was 16% unemployment among 'Africans' thus 84% are employed in some capacity so clearly the vast majority of 'Africans' are in what you describe the 'normal workforce'. Secondly I posted an article indicating an issue of alleged discrimination, yet you seamlessly ignored it.



Perhaps you 'see' what you want to 'see'? I've just pointed out that 84% are working in some capacity, how does that match your 'work shy' analysis? As for the alleged 25 hours a week work and keep benefits - are you suggesting that's an 'African' specific measure, if so do back it up with evidence, if not why raise it specifically against 'Africans'?



I have and so have you if you're being honest.



I'm not fully sure why one form of alleged public urination is deemed more acceptable than another, perhaps you could explain? So it's ONE person and yet you seem comfortable using it against an entire community?



Firstly, can you indicate how you know the background of the individual in question, did you survey him with questions of national origin and the place he resided or are you once again using a rather dated stereotype.

All in all 'All seeing eye' you seem to only see what you want to see and what you see seems on the face of your posts to be tinged with a healthy dollop of prejudice.

All in all you must have plenty of time on your hands for starters. Do you have a job to go to during the day there is a lot detail in these posts. Anyway plenty of Africans pissing in public places during the day. It just seems to be a thing they do. Can you prove it’s not because they lived in some ****hole before they moved here by choice. So that 16% is way higher than the national average and you are blaming discrimination? What proof have you got? Can you show me a comprehensive list of specific instances please. Do you live in Balbriggan and see this on a daily basis? Do you know many Africans there?

pumpkin4life

I recommend these guy's two live streams and channels btw. Two Irish lads:

MFPM

ibrahimovic wrote: »

@MFPM

I used to consider myself left wing, just had a read of all your posts on this thread, It's people like you that made me disenchanted with the left. The event that took place to start this thread is of genuine concern to people, you're not actually trying to understand the arguments people are making here, just going way off topic making straw man arguments, insulting people and spouting out drivel based on nothing but idealism.

I started changing my mind about this whole topic when I would see people make well thought out arguments that scrutanised mass immigration based on facts, opinion polls and logic to be shut down by people like you who would label them, put them into groups (can't take anyone seriously who uses the word Islamophobic) and defeating arguments they never made in the first place.

In one of your posts you said the the way to combat bigoted attitudes is to challenge those attitudes, you're doing a horrible job of that yourself.

It's people like you that made me disenchanted with the left.

Might I suggest you take responsibility for your own disenchantment instead of seeking a cop out by blaming other people. I've no idea who 'people like me are' but if they've caused you to abandon your previous held position I doubt your convictions were particularly strong to begin with.

The event that took place to start this thread is of genuine concern to people, you're not actually trying to understand the arguments people are making here

Anti-social behaviour irrespective who carries it out is of concern and particularly to those in the communities affected. I have no difficulty condemning anti social behaviour but what differs me from others on the thread is that I don't use anti-social behaviour to start throwing around generalisations against migrants which is precisely what has been done on this thread.

insulting people and spouting out drivel based on nothing but idealism.

I haven't insulted people - although I've been insulted yet I haven't seen you call that out, perhaps you're only concerned about insults when allegedly directed at people you agree with - there's a name for that, it begins with 'H'.

As for the 'drivel' and 'idealism' - of course you're perfectly entitled to your opinion but it would help if you actually engaged with the content of my posts and highlighted the aforementioned 'problems'.

I started changing my mind about this whole topic when I would see people make well thought out arguments that scrutanised mass immigration based on facts, opinion polls and logic to be shut down by people like you who would label them,

Who are these people, what 'facts', what 'logic'? If you read them and continue to read them here - how exactly did 'people like' me (there you go again) 'shut them down' exactly?

put them into groups (can't take anyone seriously who uses the word Islamophobic) and defeating arguments they never made in the first place.

Are you suggesting there are no racists, no islamophobes, no bigots?

If they didn't make an argument, how was it defeated.

In one of your posts you said the the way to combat bigoted attitudes is to challenge those attitudes, you're doing a horrible job of that yourself.

Again that's your opinion and one you're entitled to but unfortunately beyond a general dismissiveness you haven't articulated a single reason as to why you think that?

MFPM

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

All in all you must have plenty of time on your hands for starters. Do you have a job to go to during the day there is a lot detail in these posts. Anyway plenty of Africans pissing in public places during the day. It just seems to be a thing they do. Can you prove it’s not because they lived in some ****hole before they moved here by choice. So that 16% is way higher than the national average and you are blaming discrimination? What proof have you got? Can you show me a comprehensive list of specific instances please. Do you live in Balbriggan and see this on a daily basis? Do you know many Africans there?

All in all you must have plenty of time on your hands for starters.

No more than Wibbs, but you're on message with him so you'll conveniently ignore it.

Do you have a job to go to during the day there is a lot detail in these posts.

Not that it's of the slightest relevance but I do, and a busy one but I can multi-task, that OK with you?

Anyway plenty of Africans pissing in public places during the day.

Is that right, interesting that you were very specific on one person when challenged but now it's 'plenty of Africans', you can understand why one might suspect you're shovelling BS?

Can you prove it’s not because they lived in some ****hole before they moved here by choice.

@hole now as distinct from a shanty town. I'll remind you that you introduced where the 'African(s)' might have lived not me, why is the burden of proof on me? I did ask how you knew, had you surveyed the person, judging by your response it's clear you didn't, you have no idea of the background of the 'Africans', you're simply giving air to your prejudice.

So that 16% is way higher than the national average and you are blaming discrimination? What proof have you got?

This is tiresome, I'd appreciate if you wish to use my posts, have the courtesy to use them accurately. You're shifting goal posts here - a classic tactic of someone who can't defend their own position. The 16% is higher than the national average - if you actually read what I wrote you'll not I said discrimination 'might partially explain it'. The proof I have is the link I posted - it's far more proof than your random observations.

Can you show me a comprehensive list of specific instances please.

Why would I have 'specific instances'? I read the report...why don't you? I'll point out again that you haven't provided a shred of evidence for anything you've posted beyond allegedly seeing some chap pissing in the street.

Do you live in Balbriggan and see this on a daily basis?

I don't but I spent 2-3 days a week in Balbriggan between 1995-2015.

Do you know many Africans there?

I do, they work and are very decent people. I know some Irish people who don't work and are not very decent - imagine if I generalised on that basis the way you're doing!

You never answered my question on the 25 hours and benefit?

Wibbs

MFPM wrote: »

So by your logic 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation Irish are causing mayhem across the States, Australia etc? We' wont mention the huge number of 1st generation who formed a massive part of the criminal underworld in the States!!

Yep, they did. The second generation weren't much better either. Goes for a few of the immigrant populations. Of course, again This is Not America. Nor is it Australia. And yet you keep grinding that wheel. Ireland is not a colony. Neither was she a coloniser(unless you consider a chunk of Scotland in the early medieval). Ireland doesn't require more bodies to fuel our economy. Ireland does not need to import the same problems that have befallen every single other European nation that has pursued this policy.

MFPM wrote: »

Are you suggesting there are no racists, no islamophobes, no bigots?

I certainly am not. There are indeed racists, islamophobes and bigots. Some more vocal, many more are private with their thoughts. And guess what? And I hate to break it you, there are just as many racists and bigots and "western/occidentalophobes" on the Other Side™. Racism, bigotry and phobias about the Other are not just the Whiteman's burden, nor his sole responsibility(though current "progressive thought" seems to think it's all because those pale of skin and external of gonads are responsible for all the ills of the world. That it's more usually those pale of skin and external of gonads that pimp this idea is both puzzling and laughable in about equal measure). And both sides suffer in the end at this hallowed altar of multiculturalism.

Again I fully acknowledge these problems. You don't. You seem to think that somehow - though you've not outlined how, even in a basic sketch - this will magically change. This time. Even when every single "multicultural" society in Europe shows your hope is a busted flush. And no, broad stroke airy fairy throwaway hows, like "education" and "planning" aren't hows. They weren't and aren't hows in France, Germany, Holland, Sweden, Italy, Greece, Spain and so forth and they've been at it for longer. Sweden became the right on, progressive culture of Europe(we'll gloss over their fascist past and sterilising "undesirables" well into the 80's), the purple haired Tumblr of Europe and yet on the ground with all their progressiveness, right wing parties are gaining traction. They even had that waste of air Breivik killing kids in the name of hard right notions. The right are gaining traction throughout Europe. And often in working class areas that were once more the preserve of the left and the centrists.

DaintyDavy

To be an islamaphobe means you irrationaly fear Islam. I would say its perfectly rational to fear Islam in the current climate.

Samuel Vimes

DaintyDavy wrote: »

To be an islamaphobe means you irrationaly fear Islam. I would say its perfectly rational to fear Islam in the current climate.

Only if you so misunderstand Islam to the degree that you believe it is a homogenous monolith.
Islam has many divergent sects within it.
Some like Wahabbism and Salsfusm are to be feared and confronted but they do not represent all or even a majority of Muslims.

harry Bailey esq

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I feel sorry for people who bought houses in Balbriggan. It has been destroyed by semi-feral immigrant teenagers and young adults. A depressing kip of a town.

I live on the outskirts, massive gaf valued at anywhere between 340k-400. Views of rockabill and the Mournes on a clear day. Ardgillan on me doorstep What's not to like? I've a shady looking head covered in scars, I've no problem with 'gangs'.

DaintyDavy

Samuel Vimes wrote: »

Only if you so misunderstand Islam to the degree that you believe it is a homogenous monolith.
Islam has many divergent sects within it.
Some like Wahabbism and Salsfusm are to be feared and confronted but they do not represent all or even a majority of Muslims.

Well you cant blame the man on the street for not being able to differentiate between different sects of Islam. The jihadis are not announcing what sect they are from before they slaughter people. You cant blame people for fearing Islam.

Samuel Vimes

DaintyDavy wrote: »

Samuel Vimes wrote: »

Only if you so misunderstand Islam to the degree that you believe it is a homogenous monolith.
Islam has many divergent sects within it.
Some like Wahabbism and Salsfusm are to be feared and confronted but they do not represent all or even a majority of Muslims.

Well you cant blame the man on the street for not being able to differentiate between different sects of Islam. The jihadis are not announcing what sect they are from before they slaughter people. You cant blame people for fearing Islam.

Of course you can.
That's like saying the average man on the street can't be blamed for believing that all Christians are child abusers because a lot of Christian Churches have been found to be complicit is child abuse!
It would be a stupid ignorant position to hold and deserving of challenge.

All Seeing Eye

MFPM wrote: »

No more than Wibbs, but you're on message with him so you'll conveniently ignore it.



Not that it's of the slightest relevance but I do, and a busy one but I can multi-task, that OK with you?



Is that right, interesting that you were very specific on one person when challenged but now it's 'plenty of Africans', you can understand why one might suspect you're shovelling BS?



@hole now as distinct from a shanty town. I'll remind you that you introduced where the 'African(s)' might have lived not me, why is the burden of proof on me? I did ask how you knew, had you surveyed the person, judging by your response it's clear you didn't, you have no idea of the background of the 'Africans', you're simply giving air to your prejudice.



This is tiresome, I'd appreciate if you wish to use my posts, have the courtesy to use them accurately. You're shifting goal posts here - a classic tactic of someone who can't defend their own position. The 16% is higher than the national average - if you actually read what I wrote you'll not I said discrimination 'might partially explain it'. The proof I have is the link I posted - it's far more proof than your random observations.



Why would I have 'specific instances'? I read the report...why don't you? I'll point out again that you haven't provided a shred of evidence for anything you've posted beyond allegedly seeing some chap pissing in the street.



I don't but I spent 2-3 days a week in Balbriggan between 1995-2015.



I do, they work and are very decent people. I know some Irish people who don't work and are not very decent - imagine if I generalised on that basis the way you're doing!

You never answered my question on the 25 hours and benefit?

Can you disprove what I’m saying with evidence? Give me reports, details, links etc. You are just basing your assertions on passing though Balbriggan the odd time. I think your spoofing about being in Balbriggan. Big diesels bill from Leitrim to here.

Have you got the same thing as Anthony Lennon?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/10/white-parents-african-ancestry-anthony-ekundayo-lennon

Stephen15

Samuel Vimes wrote: »

Only if you so misunderstand Islam to the degree that you believe it is a homogenous monolith.
Islam has many divergent sects within it.
Some like Wahabbism and Salsfusm are to be feared and confronted but they do not represent all or even a majority of Muslims.

The Qur'an promotes violence against the Kuffar (non-Muslims) all Muslims follow the Qur'an regardless of sect. Good Muslims are victims of the evil ideology of Islam.

Mohammed was a peado he married 9 year old Aisha this is known fact not hearsay. Islam belongs in the middle ages and has no place in a modern society. We need more people like Salaman Rusdie, Theo Van Gogh and Geert Wilders who are brave enough to speak out against Islam despite the threats they face and in the case of Theo Van Gogh make the ultimate sacrifice being killed by one of these Islamic savages.

Stephen15

Samuel Vimes wrote: »

Of course you can.
That's like saying the average man on the street can't be blamed for believing that all Christians are child abusers because a lot of Christian Churches have been found to be complicit is child abuse!
It would be a stupid ignorant position to hold and deserving of challenge.

Mohammed married and shagged a 9 year old but that was ok apparently because Islam is a religion of peace and it was the norm at the time according to liberals no it wasn't a 9 year old is a child even a 1,000 years. He is their idol.