Jordan Peterson interview on C4

kubjones

alaimacerc wrote: »

Not familiar with his statements on this, but the traditional terminology would be either "Classical Liberal" or "Libertarian". Both sit in the general quadrant of the political compass that's right-wing on economics, and "liberal" on social matters. As in, tending to favour less state or legal intervention in both. So neither is quite your Indo/Daily Mail "right of centre".

The complications here are that, as you say, he's not a full-service politician, so he doesn't have a detailed policy programme. So if he makes -- as he does! -- woolly statements about desirable outcomes, he's almost necessarily going to be quite some distance away from white papers enacting (or indeed repealing) legislation on that area. Hence the constant danger of a professorial equivalent of the sort of loose pub talk that drifts from "it's a disgrace" to "there should be a law against it".

Secondly, clearly he's fairly far from a social liberal by inclination. Much of his rhetoric seems to leave it very open to interpretation whether he's a strict small-government type, that thinks that the "back to the '50s", "our hunter-gatherer ancestors" and general "Lobsters!" stuff would/should emerge naturally, without overt state intervention. Or if he's the more usual Movement Conservative/Cafeteria Libertarian type, that believes the state should be "small" merely in the sense of doing merely the authoritarian things they like, and ideally, doing it on the cheap.

Or indeed, somewhere on the spectrum between the two. Or "precisely" being deliberately vague, the better to run with the fox, and hunt with the hounds.

Good post, and I agree with a lot of what you have to say.

His statements about desirable outcomes are from a psychological standpoint rather than a socio-economic standpoint though, which he is more than educated enough to make a determination on and even then he leaves it fairly open to interpretation, mainly because, as he often admits, there is no set mode of being that cures all problems.

As xckjoo stated earlier, its about taking what has meaning to you from what he is saying and applying it constructively so that as an individual you improve and hopefully, through enough improvement on an individual level, society will benefit in kind.

People make it political because the wave of popularity he is riding has been co-opted for the most part by right wing commentators.

The actual individuals Peterson aligns himself with, however, are overwhelmingly left-leaning politically. Despite this, they all move in the same direction and are in agreement on all of the issues that they are focused on.
Its the obfuscation of these central Thesis' by people or organizations who's agendas are damaged by the message that these people are presenting that are making out like these people are this large political movement.

In essence, they're not wrong, but the politics that surround them are not their intent, but the reactions that are occurring because of their presence. They aren't polarizing people, rather their presence is the light by which we can see this polarization, in the media, in Universities and in politics.

markodaly

alaimacerc wrote: »

It's good to see what a great and thorough job he's done in "finishing" with Christian fundies, then. Feminists must be similarly terrified of their imminent extinction at his hands.

You seem a tad insecure.

Brian?

markodaly wrote: »

We talking about Sargon of Akkad here? Do you know he made his name taking on creationists and Christian fundamentalists and their stupid ideas about intelligent design?

When he was finished with that, he moved onto other religions, that is the religion of modern feminism and postmodernism.

That paragon of rationality.

Who believed Mossad were behind 9/11. Believes the theory that Heather Beyer dues of a heart attack from seeing a car crash.

Who loves peddling a good conspiracy theory, before backing away from them.

Yeah, that guy.

Giraffe Box

markodaly wrote: »

You seem a tad insecure.

Ad hominem....just a tad mind.

Akrasia

markodaly wrote: »

We talking about Sargon of Akkad here? Do you know he made his name taking on creationists and Christian fundamentalists and their stupid ideas about intelligent design?

When he was finished with that, he moved onto other religions, that is the religion of modern feminism and postmodernism.

So he likes to go after the weakest arguments and the lowest hanging fruit on the internet.

But he's hardly a clear thinker himself. He has promoted 9/11 truth nonsense, he is a brexit fanboy, he thought Trump would make a better president than Clinton, he is dubious on climate change....

There is loads of things he could apply skeptical analysis to, but he chooses to go for the sneering at feminists and stirring up fear of immigrants route instead.

Brian?

RandomName2 wrote: »

Instead of talking about videos that Peterson didn't make, and talking about things that he didn't say (but you can assume that he thought if you don't like him) here's an interesting little piece of him talking about white privilege.

This is the reason why he's a big noise at the moment, and the reason why most people fundamentally either like or dislike him.

Why is shattering stuff so often? If he's not shattering ideas he's owning people. Sometimes he even destroys people after triggering them.

No one ever seems to politely refute anymore.

RandomName2

alaimacerc wrote: »

You sound a little like Bart Simpson. "I know of the times tables..."

Why would I want to do that, having cited a very specifically piece of applicable Orwell writing, and had you breeze past it, to make your usual "because shut up, that's why!" grade intervention?

You didn't. I quote

alaimacerc wrote: »

"Anyone who isn't alt-right-phobic"? Language being subjected to cruel and unusual treatment right there, I think. To reclaim Orwell's good name from the rightists, strong shades of "Politics and the English Language" here.

The one and only time you mentioned Orwell.

Animal Farm, Letters from Catalonia, 1984?

I suggest you improve your posting quality. I disagree with you, but that's not important. Your posts are tending towards being inane. You've been commenting about a youtuber for the last few pages, the content of which amounted to you not liking him.

Pewdiepie is nasty. Who would call themselves Pewdiepie? He is alt-right. Didn't you hear how he called for the death of Jews, and then pretended it was a joke? He is a Christian fundamentalist. Wait he's an atheist? Well the feminists must be terrified. Nietzsche. I rest my case. Do you know what Nietzsche essay I talk of, pray?

That's you, with the variables changed.

Brian? wrote: »

Why is shattering stuff so often? If he's not shattering ideas he's owning people. Sometimes he even destroys people after triggering them.

Clickbait title

kubjones

Brian? wrote: »

Why is shattering stuff so often? If he's not shattering ideas he's owning people. Sometimes he even destroys people after triggering them.

No one ever seems to politely refute anymore.

The titles of those Youtube videos are more cringe-inducing than watching Leo Varadkar trying to be cool.

Brian?

I wonder what the costs of owning a SJW are?

https://youtu.be/VQYThLAOWfQ

Would all the organic vegan foods cost a fortune? Asking for friend.

Brian?

RandomName2 wrote: »

Clickbait title

There's a reason those titles exist, IMO, a certain demographic love them.

RandomName2

Brian? wrote: »

I wonder what the costs of owning a SJW are?

https://youtu.be/VQYThLAOWfQ

Would all the organic vegan foods cost a fortune? Asking for friend.

It depends. If they get excited they can rip up the furniture and soil the carpet. It really depends on whether you look frightening to them. Unfortunately they get startled easily. Your tone of voice, clapping, your physical appearance can all make an SJW have behavioral issues. If you wear a costume.. similar to your avatar for instance, your interactions could go okay.. but if the SJW becomes aware that you aren't really a furry, then you'd have to hand them into the pound the fallout would be so bad.

Brian? wrote: »

There's a reason those titles exist, IMO, a certain demographic love them.

The view count on that video aren't great so I'm not sure, but you may be right.

markodaly

Akrasia wrote: »

So he likes to go after the weakest arguments and the lowest hanging fruit on the internet.

Grand, so debunk his argument.

I don't see anyone actually trying to debunk his core argument in the video but I do see plenty of people trying to muddy the waters by throwing out the usual bingo box of labels.

I don't listen to the guy, his video's go on for too long and like all of that type of stuff, there is an agenda behind it, just like there is an agenda behind his detractors. It's all a silly game.

Brian?

RandomName2 wrote: »

It depends. If they get excited they can rip up the furniture and soil the carpet. It really depends on whether you look frightening to them. Unfortunately they get startled easily. Your tone of voice, clapping, your physical appearance can all make an SJW have behavioral issues. If you wear a costume.. similar to your avatar for instance, your interactions could go okay.. but if the SJW becomes aware that you aren't really a furry, then you'd have to hand them into the pound the fallout would be so bad.

Sounds like a lot of work. I'll get a pot bellied pig instead. If he doesn't work out, I can eat him.

The view count on that video aren't great so I'm not sure, but you may be right.

Maybe the title needed to be all caps, that really brings in the views.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Brian? wrote: »

I wonder what the costs of owning a SJW are?

https://youtu.be/VQYThLAOWfQ

Would all the organic vegan foods cost a fortune? Asking for friend.

Very temperamental and unreliable. Prone to breakdowns.

Brian?

markodaly wrote: »

Grand, so debunk his argument.

I don't see anyone actually trying to debunk his core argument in the video but I do see plenty of people trying to muddy the waters by throwing out the usual bingo box of labels.

I don't listen to the guy, his video's go on for too long and like all of that type of stuff, there is an agenda behind it, just like there is an agenda behind his detractors. It's all a silly game.

Why can't people express opinions anymore? Why is it all about "debunking"?

You could go years without hearing that word up until recently. Now everything is debunked.

I can bunk this if needed.

RandomName2

Brian? wrote: »

Maybe the title needed to be all caps, that really brings in the views.

JB PETERSON DESTROYS i-n-s-a-n-e hysterical FEMINIST student - MASSIVE REACTION SPEECHLESS! MUST watch owning.

markodaly

Brian? wrote: »

Why can't people express opinions anymore? Why is it all about "debunking"?

You could go years without hearing that word up until recently. Now everything is debunked.

I can bunk this if needed.

Because it's not about sharing ideas anymore it's about destroying the other person whose idea is not the exact same as yours.
Normally its those on the left who are now today's thought police. Go figure.

ancapailldorcha

markodaly wrote: »

Because it's not about sharing ideas anymore it's about destroying the other person whose idea is not the exact same as yours.
Normally its those on the left who are now today's thought police. Go figure.

Plenty of it on the right as well which gets glossed over.

kubjones

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Plenty of it on the right as well which gets glossed over.

Its all on the internet.

I'm friends with a pink-haired turbo-fem and I slag her all the time about being a woman, she always slags me about being a man.

I need to get off this internet yoke.

Maybe after lunch.

ancapailldorcha

kubjones wrote: »

Its all on the internet.

I'm friends with a pink-haired turbo-fem and I slag her all the time about being a woman, she always slags me about being a man.

I need to get off this internet yoke.

Maybe after lunch.

Oh yeah, absolutely.

The thin-skinned egotism is much rarer in real life thank feck.

Undividual

Akrasia wrote: »

markodaly wrote: »

We talking about Sargon of Akkad here? Do you know he made his name taking on creationists and Christian fundamentalists and their stupid ideas about intelligent design?

When he was finished with that, he moved onto other religions, that is the religion of modern feminism and postmodernism.

So he likes to go after the weakest arguments and the lowest hanging fruit on the internet.

But he's hardly a clear thinker himself. He has promoted 9/11 truth nonsense, he is a brexit fanboy, he thought Trump would make a better president than Clinton, he is dubious on climate change....

What is wrong with supporting Brexit?  If there ever was an issue where I could respect both sides points of view, it was that. 

Also, no one knew whether Trump or Clinton would make a better president.  You can only make an educated (or uneducated) guess at the time of voting.  If Trump brings N. Korea into negotiations and improves the US economy, it may be more than Clinton would have done in 4 years. 

None of the above issues prove that he is not a clear thinker.  A clear thinker can still be wrong if his/her evidence or assumptions are incorrect.

DickSwiveller Returns

Akrasia wrote: »

So he likes to go after the weakest arguments and the lowest hanging fruit on the internet.

But he's hardly a clear thinker himself. He has promoted 9/11 truth nonsense, he is a brexit fanboy, he thought Trump would make a better president than Clinton, he is dubious on climate change....

There is loads of things he could apply skeptical analysis to, but he chooses to go for the sneering at feminists and stirring up fear of immigrants route instead.

OMG the bastard. How dare he!

kunst nugget

Undividual wrote: »

What is wrong with supporting Brexit?  If there ever was an issue where I could respect both sides points of view, it was that. 

What are the benefits of Brexit? I've never in my lifetime seen a western country so willing to commit economic suicide and impoverish its people and for what? And the worst part of it is that we'll get dragged down with them because of their stupidity…

ancapailldorcha

Undividual wrote: »

What is wrong with supporting Brexit?  If there ever was an issue where I could respect both sides points of view, it was that.

For me, I get the impression that he is trying to pander to a right wing base rather than making an intellectual case for Brexit. I watched a video once of him talking about the EU and he said little of substance with the salient point being that the Germans and Greeks speak different languages in more ways than one.

If he made an intellectual argument for it, that's one thing but on many issues he takes the path of least resistance.

kunst nugget

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

For me, I get the impression that he is trying to pander to a right wing base rather than making an intellectual case for Brexit. I watched a video once of him talking about the EU and he said little of substance with the salient point being that the Germans and Greeks speak different languages in more ways than one.

If he made an intellectual argument for it, that's one thing but on many issues he takes the path of least resistance.

Are you talking about Peterson or Sargon?

ancapailldorcha

kunst nugget wrote: »

Are you talking about Peterson or Sargon?

Peterson.

I lost any respect I had for Sargon a long time ago.

kunst nugget

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Peterson.

I lost any respect I had for Sargon a long time ago.

I think the poster was referring to a post about Sargon.

I watched that clip of Peterson talking about the EU. It really didn't say anything about anything.

ancapailldorcha

kunst nugget wrote: »

I think the poster was referring to a post about Sargon.

I watched that clip of Peterson talking about the EU. It really didn't say anything about anything.

Oops. Should have been clearer.

Anyway, Peterson is a Professor. Sargon is little more than a professional troll at this stage.

Brian?

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Oh yeah, absolutely.

The thin-skinned egotism is much rarer in real life thank feck.

My skin is far thicker in real life. But my ego is 7 times the size. In fact I'd say my ego is the biggest ive ever seen.

professore

kunst nugget wrote: »

What are the benefits of Brexit? I've never in my lifetime seen a western country so willing to commit economic suicide and impoverish its people and for what? And the worst part of it is that we'll get dragged down with them because of their stupidity…

Being able to make your own laws and control your own borders are two I can think of. Sure, it might be an economic disaster, but on the other hand they will be able to make more business friendly laws than we will to encourage new business and attract investment, so it could be an economic boon. Whether they actually will is another matter ....