Jordan Peterson interview on C4

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Aaaannd here is a great deconstruction on the sophistry of Peterson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LqZdkkBDas

Interesting. Looking forward to watching.

suicide_circus

Brian? wrote: »

The biggest problem I have with the modern trans movement is that it’s unacceptable to ask questions like this.

i think the biggest issue with trans activism is this;

Gay rights required nothing of the general public. All it asked was for live and let live. It was entirely passive.

Trans activism requires that the general public say things that they may not believe. It demands active validation of someone else's sense of self.

This is not about acceptance. It's about control.

20Cent

suicide_circus wrote: »

i think the biggest issue with trans activism is this;

Gay rights required nothing of the general public. All it asked was for live and let live. It was entirely passive.

Trans activism requires that the general public say things that they may not believe. It demands active validation of someone else's sense of self.

This is not about acceptance. It's about control.

Nonsense.
Trans is live and let live as well pretty similar.
No difference between refusing to recognise someones gender and using an anti gay slur. Same thing.

Silentcorner

suicide_circus wrote: »

i think the biggest issue with trans activism is this;

Gay rights required nothing of the general public. All it asked was for live and let live. It was entirely passive.

Trans activism requires that the general public say things that they may not believe. It demands active validation of someone else's sense of self.

This is not about acceptance. It's about control.

Douglas Murray put it very well...we are moving to the point where a person would have to look at a breaded man and say he is a woman for fear of repercussion....it's about power...it is worse than kissing a bishops ring by some distance!

suicide_circus

suicide_circus wrote: »

i think the biggest issue with trans activism is this;

Gay rights required nothing of the general public. All it asked was for live and let live. It was entirely passive.

Trans activism requires that the general public say things that they may not believe. It demands active validation of someone else's sense of self.

This is not about acceptance. It's about control.

^^^ Spot on ^^^

Wibbs

Kassidy Savory Tick wrote: »

"A great deconstruction?" Trivial nonsense that relies mostly on mockery and ridicule. Name one substantive point made in this video?

The breakdown of Peterson's notions on what are the backbones of "western civilisation" for a start. His take was always a very North American centric one. With a side order of halcyon days to it. And almost entirely inaccurate.

Much like so many Americans look back to their peak of the 1950's as the golden age. You see this with young Americans on forums and subs on Reddit. The Red Pill manosphere types get the real viagra hard on for it. Well older Americans who actually lived through it might hold a more nuanced view. Though since the 70's and Hollywood and other media they might not. By the time of Reagan he really egged that particular pudding for votes.

20Cent

20Cent wrote: »

Nonsense.
Trans is live and let live as well pretty similar.
No difference between refusing to recognise someones gender and using an anti gay slur. Same thing.

You're obviously not gay, and have never been on the receiving end of such an insult...

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

Piers Morgan/Gender

if you haven't seen it, it's worth watching. Especially, when you consider the attitudes on Trans advocates here.

Your link no workee K. Though the words Piers Morgan put me right off. A towering cunt, there's no other word for him. On the stopped clock being right twice a day notion, he's one of the exceptions that proves the rule. When Jeremy Clarkson found him so intolerable he punched him smack in the face that says much.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

Your link no workee K. Though the words Piers Morgan put me right off. A towering cunt, there's no other word for him. On the stopped clock being right twice a day notion, he's one of the exceptions that proves the rule. When Jeremy Clarkson found him so intolerable he punched him smack in the face that says much.

I don't usually embed Youtube vids. Hmm...

It was more about his guests, and the way the gender identity advocate behaved, and the comments by the trans-gendered person (India Willoughby) also on the panel. Not so much about Piers himself, since I find him too loud/aggressive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1roM98Dass

20Cent

Deleted User wrote: »

You're obviously not gay, and have never been on the receiving end of such an insult...

What's the difference then?

20Cent

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't usually embed Youtube vids. Hmm...

It was more about his guests, and the way the gender identity advocate behaved, and the comments by the trans-gendered person (India Willoughby) also on the panel. Not so much about Piers himself, since I find him too loud/aggressive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1roM98Dass

Piers morgans avatar on twitter is his head on a penguins body.
He is doing it to toll trans people and their allies.

Considering what happened with Caroline Flack you'd think he's be a bit more sensitive to others and quit the bullying.

20Cent

20Cent wrote: »

What's the difference then?

Because insults against gay people are usually sexual, and about personal weakness, combined with aggressive gestures/posturing. Contempt is often a worse insult but either way, most insults I've received for being bisexual, or being seen with a male, were aggressive, and dealt with overly sexual references.

A person refusing to acknowledge someones preferred gentle is unlikely to behaving in such a manner. They might be, but I can't see why they would bother, because it's not considered an insult for most people. Whereas calling a Trans-gendered person a freak in anger/disgust, there would likely be more aggression (or contempt) involved.

It's about scale, and if you can't understand the difference.... I honestly can't believe you'd make such a comparison. Most straight people I know who hang out with gay/bi people would know the difference.. how do you not?

suicide_circus

20Cent wrote: »

Nonsense.
Trans is live and let live as well pretty similar.
No difference between refusing to recognise someones gender and using an anti gay slur. Same thing.

Nope youre wrong there but take heart; soon i could risk prosecution for writing the opinion i expressed above.

That's pretty callous to use someone's death over the weekend to make some retarded point about Piers Morgan..

20Cent

Deleted User wrote: »

Because insults against gay people are usually sexual, and about personal weakness, combined with aggressive gestures/posturing. Contempt is often a worse insult but either way, most insults I've received for being bisexual, or being seen with a male, were aggressive, and dealt with overly sexual references.

A person refusing to acknowledge someones preferred gentle is unlikely to behaving in such a manner. They might be, but I can't see why they would bother, because it's not considered an insult for most people. Whereas calling a Trans-gendered person a freak in anger/disgust, there would likely be more aggression (or contempt) involved.

It's about scale, and if you can't understand the difference.... I honestly can't believe you'd make such a comparison. Most straight people I know who hang out with gay/bi people would know the difference.. how do you not?

Being misgendered on purpose is considered an insult by most people and is a form of bullying. A lot of the same arguments used against homosexuals are now used against trans people

20Cent

20Cent wrote: »

Piers morgans avatar on twitter is his head on a penguins body.
He is doing it to toll trans people and their allies.

Considering what happened with Caroline Flack you'd think he's be a bit more sensitive to others and quit the bullying.

I'm guessing you didn't notice the date/timestamp on the video? Or did you watch it at all? I'll make it easy for you... Oct 15th 2019...

20Cent

20Cent wrote: »

Being misgendered on purpose is considered an insult by most people and is a form of bullying. A lot of the same arguments used against homosexuals are now used against trans people

Arguments. Not insults. And mis-gendering someone is not the same as the insults leveled at gay people. Trans-gendered people receiving insults because they might be considered gay are the same as insults leveled at gay people.

Nope. You don't understand scale at all.

20Cent

Deleted User wrote: »

That's pretty callous to use someone's death over the weekend to make some retarded point about Piers Morgan..

How about offering a rebuttal to the point made?

It is relevant Morgan has made a career bullying people.
It's the whole business model of the tabloid industry pretty much.

Yet he blames social media for her suicide while continuing to bully people in the exact same way Flack was.

20Cent

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm guessing you didn't notice the date/timestamp on the video? Or did you watch it at all? I'll make it easy for you... Oct 15th 2019...

I was referring to his continued bullying not the video.

20Cent

20Cent wrote: »

I was referring to his continued bullying not the video.

So... rather than derail the thread, how about watching the vid I linked, and speak about that instead?

Is he not within his rights to identify as a two spirit penguin?..


Like really.. when you accept these absurdities you kind of have to follow the logic to it's conclusion..

Piers is a strong beautiful two spirit penguin..

20Cent

Deleted User wrote: »

Arguments. Not insults. And mis-gendering someone is not the same as the insults leveled at gay people. Trans-gendered people receiving insults because they might be considered gay are the same as insults leveled at gay people.

Nope. You don't understand scale at all.

They shouldn't be allowed share showers etc
They will be molesting kids.
They are doing it for attention
They are perverts etc

All the same arguments, which are also insults were made against gay people.

If your boss started calling you she all the time and in front of peers you'd be alright with it?

nkl12xtw5goz70

Wibbs wrote: »

The breakdown of Peterson's notions on what are the backbones of "western civilisation" for a start.

This video systematically reduces Peterson's views to caricatures and then dismisses those caricatures with a flourish, leaving the viewer with a sense of smug assurance that a charlatan has been dispatched. Of course, Peterson has never reduced Western civilization just to capitalism, individualism, and Judeo-Christian values, as the video claims. He has discussed extensively the role of religion, myth, law, philosophy, science, ethics, literature, the arts, and institutions of government as shaping Western civilization — but all of that couldn't be as easily debunked in the five minutes allotted, and so radical misrepresentation is required.

As regards Peterson's being an American worldview, the primary influences on his thinking are Nietzsche (German), Jung (Swiss), Orwell and Huxley (British), Dostoevsky and Solzhenitsyn (Russian), and Frankl (Austrian). The only American I've heard him cite repeatedly is the historian Christopher Browning.

20Cent

Deleted User wrote: »

Is he not within his rights to identify as a two spirit penguin?..


Like really.. when you accept these absurdities you kind of have to follow the logic to it's conclusion..

Piers is a strong beautiful two spirit penguin..

Penguin isn't a gender so no it's not logical at all.

Unless you think trangender people aren't human or are being insincere about how they identify themselves.

Perhaps we could alter the meaning of the word gender again and incorporate different species into it..

So it's ridiculous to identify as another species is it?

20Cent

20Cent wrote: »

They shouldn't be allowed share showers etc
They will be molesting kids.
They are doing it for attention
They are perverts etc

All the same arguments, which are also insults were made against gay people.

Once more you're trying to connect **** that is different. And anyway, you're moving away from your point about insults, which is what I objected to.

In any case, have any of those (on this thread) commenting on Transgender issues made those comments?

If your boss started calling you she all the time and in front of peers you'd be alright with it?

It wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Because I'm male and secure about my gender. i'm also secure about my sexual preferences. But then, I did experience sad big boys (and girls) in Secondary school who thought it funny to call me a girl, because I liked boys. Shocking, isn't it? That by facing the obstacles in my life, I managed to become a more confident and secure person.

20Cent

20Cent wrote: »

Penguin isn't a gender so no it's not logical at all.

Unless you think trangender people aren't human or are being insincere about how they identify themselves.

If someone can change their gender without engaging in any alteration (surgery or hormonal), then why can't someone change their species and ask to be addressed in the way that they prefer?

Oh.. and what exactly (spell it out for me in a paragraph) transgender mean to you...? be specific. I'm getting the feeling that you've a very broad definition of what it entails.

Penn

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Perhaps we could alter the meaning of the word gender again and incorporate different species into it..

So it's ridiculous to identify as another species is it?

Yes. From conception, as the child grows from a clump of cells to a child, it's possible for the brain to develop with female characteristics even though the body develops as male, and vice versa. In fact I'm pretty sure we all start off as female until a certain point of development where it starts to become male or female (hence why men have nipples, the fact the clitoris and penis share some physiological characteristics etc).

So it's possible that somewhere in that development theres a mix up between male and female development. It isn't possible that somewhere in that development theres a mix up between male and penguin development.

20Cent

Deleted User wrote: »

Once more you're trying to connect **** that is different. And anyway, you're moving away from your point about insults, which is what I objected to.

In any case, have any of those (on this thread) commenting on Transgender issues made those comments?

Yeah loads ffs..
There was a load of pages about bathrooms and changing rooms.

Deleted User wrote: »

It wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Because I'm male and secure about my gender. i'm also secure about my sexual preferences. But then, I did experience sad big boys (and girls) in Secondary school who thought it funny to call me a girl, because I liked boys. Shocking, isn't it? That by facing the obstacles in my life, I managed to become a more confident and secure person.

Wouldn't it have been better to not have been called that?

Penn

Penn wrote: »

Yes. From conception, as the child grows from a clump of cells to a child, it's possible for the brain to develop with female characteristics even though the body develops as male, and vice versa. In fact I'm pretty sure we all start off as female until a certain point of development where it starts to become male or female.

So it's possible that somewhere in that development theres a mix up between male and female development. It isn't possible that somewhere in that development theres a mix up between male and penguin development.

And if a person decides that during their development, Chimp cells were activated, but there are no physical signs of such in their development, would they be allowed to identify themselves as a Chimp... demanding whatever pronouns they wished to be addressed by?