Jordan Peterson interview on C4

Pluto Planet

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I'd say the alpha in your research is still a virgin.

Brian?

Pluto Planet wrote: »

The "alpha" you describe sounds like a chump

Pluto Planet

Brian? wrote: »

The "alpha" you describe sounds like a chump

How so?

Brian?

Pluto Planet wrote: »

How so?

You know, the whole scenario sounds ridiculous. I have never had a woman ask me to buy her a drink. I’ve bought many women drinks though. It’s as though you live in a parallel universe to me where male/female relations are a long series of power plays.

Pluto Planet

Brian? wrote: »

You know, the whole scenario sounds ridiculous. I have never had a woman ask me to buy her a drink. I’ve bought many women drinks though. It’s as though you live in a parallel universe to me where male/female relations are a long series of power plays.

It was just one tiny little example of a possible scenario. I think you are just missing the underlying dynamics that are taking place, like most.With practice you could get better and get a better sense of cause and effect during interactions.

pitifulgod

Pluto Planet wrote: »

It was just one tiny little example of a possible scenario. I think you are just missing the underlying dynamics that are taking place, like most.With practice you could get better and get a better sense of cause and effect during interactions.

See, you're beginning to sound like a person who abides by the pretty valueless philosophy of pickup artistry.

Brian?

Pluto Planet wrote: »

It was just one tiny little example of a possible scenario. I think you are just missing the underlying dynamics that are taking place, like most.With practice you could get better and get a better sense of cause and effect during interactions.

Underlying dynamics you say? Go on


Believe it or not, I have extremely good “sense of cause and effect during interactions”. It’s what makes me a good leader.

You’ve swallowed the red pill, I get it. I hate to tell you though, it’s not the answer to your problems

buried

Pluto Planet

Brian? wrote: »

Underlying dynamics you say? Go on


Believe it or not, I have extremely good “sense of cause and effect during interactions”. It’s what makes me a good leader.

You’ve swallowed the red pill, I get it. I hate to tell you though, it’s not the answer to your problems

I don't know what this red pill is you speak of.

What problems are you talking about? You seem to be making assumptions.

You are a good leader, are you good at approaching and attracting women?

If yoi arr extremely good at cause and effect then you will know it is not a good idea to approach and ask multiple questions, much better to make statements.

Pluto Planet

pitifulgod wrote: »

See, you're beginning to sound like a person who abides by the pretty valueless philosophy of pickup artistry.

Not sure what philosphy you are referring to.

Brian?

Pluto Planet wrote: »

I don't know what this red pill is you speak of.

What problems are you talking about? You seem to be making assumptions.

If you believe in this nonsense, I’m sorry, you have problems.

You are a good leader, are you good at approaching and attracting women?

I haven’t had to in 17 years, I hit the jackpot.

If yoi arr extremely good at cause and effect then you will know it is not a good idea to approach and ask multiple questions, much better to make statements.

Actually, no. It’s about doing both at the right times. It’s about reading a situation and responding appropriately.

Pluto Planet

Brian? wrote: »

If you believe in this nonsense, I’m sorry, you have problems.



I haven’t had to in 17 years, I hit the jackpot.



Actually, no. It’s about doing both at the right times. It’s about reading a situation and responding appropriately.

What nonsense do I believe in?

If you understand cause and effect well in interactions with women you will know it's generally better to make statments than multiple questions. Too many questions early indicates you are chasing her, which lessens attraction usually. Much better when the dynamic is that she has to chase you.

Pluto Planet

Books I would recommend people read:

The 48 laws of power
A New Earth
The Way of the Superior Man
Mastery

I think it's good to get a practical sense of how to navigate the politics of life, while also learning to understand the beauty of life, which always comes from the present moment.

Brian?

Pluto Planet wrote: »

What nonsense do I believe in?

The nonsense below.

If you understand cause and effect well in interactions with women you will know it's generally better to make statments than multiple questions. Too many questions early indicates you are chasing her, which lessens attraction usually. Much better when the dynamic is that she has to chase you.

I tend to interact with women as individuals, rather than a homogeneous grouping. Crazy eh?

I’m only trying to get a ride from one of them though. She buys her own drinks though and the only time she chases me is when I’ve taken the remote control to another room.

Pluto Planet

Brian? wrote: »

The nonsense below.



I tend to interact with women as individuals, rather than a homogeneous grouping. Crazy eh?

I’m only trying to get a ride from one of them though. She buys her own drinks though and the only time she chases me is when I’ve taken the remote control to another room.

Likewise I interact with individuals, I sense more incorrect assumptions from you. One can appreciate another's individuality and uniqueness while also understanding that people often have patterns of behavour.

My advise to you is while life is chaotic, there can be patterns in chaos.

Pluto Planet

Back to Jordan Peterson, while he seems like an intelligent man, with good debating skills, there does seem something off to me about his perspective on the world. I can't quite pinpoint it.

Dyr

He posted a chapter from his buke for those who have a half hour to kill, apparently in response to whatever the latest mass shooting in the states was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYua-3JmnT4

Pluto Planet

Pluto Planet wrote: »

What nonsense do I believe in?

This forum has a major skepticism towards any of the PUA, Speed seduction, NLP systems for improving interactions with women in a dating environment. This kind of discussion crops up fairly regularly and tends to be dismissed quite quickly. There is a general belief in naturally being good with women, without learning any techniques to improve confidence, pacing, rapport etc.

I don't buy into this Alpha thingy but I can appreciate a lot of the rest since I went through the process myself. Little interest in it now, but it is a decent starting point when you're beginning and need a boost.

But I'd recommend avoiding this kind of discussion on boards. You won't get much in the way of agreement/appreciation, and will ultimately get frustrated by the attitudes.

pitifulgod

Pluto Planet wrote: »

Not sure what philosphy you are referring to.

You just referenced a load of pick up artists books shortly after...

Pluto Planet

pitifulgod wrote: »

Pluto Planet wrote: »

Not sure what philosphy you are referring to.

You just referenced a load of pick up artists books shortly after...

Neither Robert Green nor Eckhart Tolle are pick up artists. I don't know much about David Deida so can't comment on him.

Brian?

Deleted User wrote: »

This forum has a major skepticism towards any of the PUA, Speed seduction, NLP systems for improving interactions with women in a dating environment. This kind of discussion crops up fairly regularly and tends to be dismissed quite quickly. There is a general belief in naturally being good with women, without learning any techniques to improve confidence, pacing, rapport etc.

I don't buy into this Alpha thingy but I can appreciate a lot of the rest since I went through the process myself. Little interest in it now, but it is a decent starting point when you're beginning and need a boost.

But I'd recommend avoiding this kind of discussion on boards. You won't get much in the way of agreement/appreciation, and will ultimately get frustrated by the attitudes.

This isn't entirely true. I have no problem at all with men who want to improve their ability with talking to and attracting women. I have no issue with men building self confidence. I don't agree the PUA methods are the way to do it though.

silverharp

Deleted User wrote: »

This forum has a major skepticism towards any of the PUA, Speed seduction, NLP systems for improving interactions with women in a dating environment. This kind of discussion crops up fairly regularly and tends to be dismissed quite quickly. There is a general belief in naturally being good with women, without learning any techniques to improve confidence, pacing, rapport etc.

I don't buy into this Alpha thingy but I can appreciate a lot of the rest since I went through the process myself. Little interest in it now, but it is a decent starting point when you're beginning and need a boost.

But I'd recommend avoiding this kind of discussion on boards. You won't get much in the way of agreement/appreciation, and will ultimately get frustrated by the attitudes.

i was just thinking when i was reading that, that its socially acceptable for women to use any amount of fake up to trick men into liking them but unacceptable for men to learn some patter which gives them an edge and tricking women into liking them. double standard or not?

Brian?

silverharp wrote: »

i was just thinking when i was reading that, that its socially acceptable for women to use any amount of fake up to trick men into liking them but unacceptable for men to learn some patter which gives them an edge and tricking women into liking them. double standard or not?

Who said it's socially unacceptable?

Brian?

Brian? wrote: »

This isn't entirely true. I have no problem at all with men who want to improve their ability with talking to and attracting women. I have no issue with men building self confidence. I don't agree the PUA methods are the way to do it though.

The problem is that so much is included under the heading of PUA. I did Speed Seduction with Ross Jeffries before Neil Strauss published "the Game", and PUA really took off. Sure there was always the seduction.alt.fast muppets and a few PUA chapters but it wasn't such a Red pill environment.

I don't like Mainstream PUA. I don't particularly like mainstream Speed Seduction anymore. The real focus should be to jump in for a while, discover the positives, and extract yourself before you absorb the negative mentality/perceptions.

silverharp

Brian? wrote: »

Who said it's socially unacceptable?

it seems to come in for a lot more criticism relatively speaking

xckjoo

Deleted User wrote: »

This forum has a major skepticism towards any of the PUA, Speed seduction, NLP systems for improving interactions with women in a dating environment. This kind of discussion crops up fairly regularly and tends to be dismissed quite quickly. There is a general belief in naturally being good with women, without learning any techniques to improve confidence, pacing, rapport etc.

I don't buy into this Alpha thingy but I can appreciate a lot of the rest since I went through the process myself. Little interest in it now, but it is a decent starting point when you're beginning and need a boost.

But I'd recommend avoiding this kind of discussion on boards. You won't get much in the way of agreement/appreciation, and will ultimately get frustrated by the attitudes.

It's because the "pick up artist" type thing is about the gamification of getting laid. The "used car salesman" of the dating world. It's about not thinking of people as people (beyond seeking to exploit patterns in human behavior) and instead thinking of them as objectives or targets.

Seeking to improve you confidence and rapport is fine and a healthy ambition. Trying to learn to trick people into sex is not.

The industry itself is also exploitative of desperate men with such poor social skills that they don't understand the difference between genuine human interaction and learning rote responses.

silverharp

silverharp wrote: »

i was just thinking when i was reading that, that its socially acceptable for women to use any amount of fake up to trick men into liking them but unacceptable for men to learn some patter which gives them an edge and tricking women into liking them. double standard or not?

Dunno. Not sure how it's a double standard.

I've had the experience where I met a woman in a bar, took her home, and she goes into the bathroom before bed. She arrived at my home with long hair, apparently nice breasts, and a soft ass. When she emerged from the bathroom, the hair was short, her eyelashes were gone, the bra removed showed no breasts, and she had some kind of implant in her panties to give her an ass. :rolleyes: Women have loads of ways to disguise their real appearance, although sometimes it does go to extremes. [gotta love those waist thingies that pull in the stomach fat. Surprise!]

Brian? wrote: »

Who said it's socially unacceptable?

In my experience, with women who find out that you've had the training to learn how to build rapport, pacing, anchoring etc, then there's a general sense of outrage. These things should be obtained naturally. That somehow because you learned how to do it, then you've tricked her. But if you had just picked it up through normal life (growing up) then that's perfectly okay.

But then, if you actually understand the stuff you're using rather than simply parroting the material, then it's very easy to turn the frame into a positive. The real issue is with these guys who focus on 'lines' and their appearance for everything, and then totally mess up any real conversations off script.

xckjoo

xckjoo wrote: »

It's because the "pick up artist" type thing is about the gamification of getting laid. The "used car salesman" of the dating world. It's about not thinking of people as people (beyond seeking to exploit patterns in human behavior) and instead thinking of them as objectives or targets.

You're also describing most single men who go to nightclubs.

Seeking to improve you confidence and rapport is fine and a healthy ambition. Trying to learn to trick people into sex is not.

How do you trick someone into having sex with you?
(I'm guessing we're not talking about drugs)

Like, I know all the crap the PUA community preaches (and it is crap). I have my NLP Practitioner certification. I have the experience from thousands of approaches. And apart from the woman being dumb as a post, I can't think of how you would trick a woman into having sex. Showing her a good time, making her feel comfortable and attracted to me, sure... but trick her? How is that done?

The industry itself is also exploitative of desperate men with such poor social skills that they don't understand the difference between genuine human interaction and learning rote responses.

It's a gateway industry. It opens up possibilities. It gives you the awareness that the scum is at the doorway, but if you look around, you can find people & techniques that don't seek to mistreat women (or men). The problem is that many men stick with the scum at the doorway because they're not willing to put in the time and work to learn how to improve. Everyone wants the quick answer to their problems.

I did my time. I approached hundreds of women, had hundreds of rejections or non-committal answers, keeping a journal, noting reactions, and generally just having a good upbeat time of it. Most men who enter the PUA scene don't want that. They want the quick fix, wich is why most of them fail, become bitter, and turn to the worst side of PUA with insulting women or treating them in a nasty manner. Pure red pill.

However, there are other avenues to take which are more balanced, which do not revolve around the act of sex and will improve both your life and the lives of people around you.

Pluto Planet

xckjoo wrote: »

It's because the "pick up artist" type thing is about the gamification of getting laid. The "used car salesman" of the dating world. It's about not thinking of people as people (beyond seeking to exploit patterns in human behavior) and instead thinking of them as objectives or targets.

Seeking to improve you confidence and rapport is fine and a healthy ambition. Trying to learn to trick people into sex is not.

The industry itself is also exploitative of desperate men with such poor social skills that they don't understand the difference between genuine human interaction and learning rote responses.

You don't need to trick a woman into bed, you can learn to become attractive enough that women simply want to have sex with you. Women have strong sex drives, stronger than men's in my opinion during ovulation. Once you learn how to be attractive it's not that hard to guide an interaction towards sex if that's what you wish.

pitifulgod

Pluto Planet wrote: »

You don't need to trick a woman into bed, you can learn to become attractive enough that women simply want to have sex with you. Women have strong sex drives, stronger than men's in my opinion during ovulation. Once you learn how to be attractive it's not that hard to guide an interaction towards sex if that's what you wish.

How do you not see that as objectification? Not every woman is the same while you're reducing them to be something to be manipulated.