Jordan Peterson interview on C4

Sand

Havockk wrote: »

I love seeing whinging right wingers. Lovely salty tears

I sympathise with the family of Heather Heyer myself. That day could have passed completely peacefully. Instead a group arrived to engage in violence and it led to a loss of life that was completely needless and totally without purpose. How many more injuries and deaths does there have to be before people remember that violent groups seeking to attack their political opponents are not a good thing?

markodaly

Brian? wrote: »

I do not agree with Antifas methods. They are not fascists.

Would you call Jordan Peterson or Ben Shaprio fascists?
If not, then why the **** are 'Anti-fascists' protesting and trying to no platform them.

markodaly

As an aside, the actions and techniques used by ANTIFA are clearly fascists in their nature.

Brian?

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Calling everybody Nazis is also a lazy smear.

Absolutely agree. Let’s agree to put a little effort into our smears so.

Just because you say antifa are not fascists doesn't make them not fascists.

Also agreed. What makes them “not fascists”, is the fact that are not fascists.

They’re a rough coalition of Marxists, some whom are authoritarian, and anarchists, all of whom are anti authoritarian.

Using violent means to achieve political aims doesn’t make you fascists. It makes you fairly normal in historical terms. Most political entities used violence to achieve their aims long before fascists existed and they continue to do so. It’s pretty short sighted, historically speaking, to associate political violence with only the fascist movement. Otherwise everyone from Thomas Jefferson to Simon Bolivar to Che Guevara were fascists. Which is patently ridiculous.

Brian?

markodaly wrote: »

As an aside, the actions and techniques used by ANTIFA are clearly fascists in their nature.

How so?

Brian?

markodaly wrote: »

I miss the times when everyone you disagreed with was not a fascist.

Everyone I disagree with isn’t a fascist. I disagree with an awful lot of people. Being a particularly argumentative chap, in general.

Brian?

markodaly wrote: »

Would you call Jordan Peterson or Ben Shaprio fascists?

Neither are fascists. I disagree with them.

Jordan Peterson seems like an awfully nice fella, who I happen to disagree with. I’d love to meet him and go for a few pints. Anyone know if he drinks? I’d have a great pub argument with him and then make him go to Zaytoon.

Ben Shapiro is a head wrecker. I couldn’t sit in his company. He’s free to spew his nonsense as long as I don’t have to listen.

If not, then why the **** are 'Anti-fascists' protesting and trying to no platform them.

I don’t know. Have you asked them? I assume it’s because they’re misguided eejits who are undermining their own cause by attacking the wrong people. They should stick to the actual fascists. There’s plenty around theses days.

Havockk

markodaly wrote: »

As an aside, the actions and techniques used by ANTIFA are clearly fascists in their nature.

Only a legitimate moron would even think Antifa are fascists. They are literally the OPPOSITE of authoritarian nationalists. As far as the political spectrum goes, it's not possible to get farther away from fascism than anti-fascism.

LOL - It's hard to believe in this day and age that even has to be explained. It's like real life idiocracy.

professore

Brian? wrote: »

Everyone I disagree with isn’t a fascist. I disagree with an awful lot of people. Being a particularly argumentative chap, in general.

Brian? IS A NAZI TRANSPHOBE FAT SHAMER MISOGYNIST!!!!

Ulysses Gaze

Havockk wrote: »

Only a legitimate moron would even think Antifa are fascists. They are literally the OPPOSITE of authoritarian nationalists. As far as the political spectrum goes, it's not possible to get farther away from fascism than anti-fascism.

LOL - It's hard to believe in this day and age that even has to be explained. It's like real life idiocracy.

But the significant Marxist component of Antifa and Far Right Extremists are both Authoritarian in nature. One is Nationalist (Far Right) the other is Socialist/Communist in nature (a lot of Antifa).

Both represent ideologies that have led to death and misery of hundreds of millions globally.

markodaly

Brian? wrote: »

How so?

Using violence or the threat of violence in order to suppress peoples ideas and speech.

Calling people Nazi's as a way to justify assaulting people. The 'It is OK to punch a Nazi' persona.

All these are fascist actions.

markodaly

Havockk wrote: »

Only a legitimate moron would even think Antifa are fascists. They are literally the OPPOSITE of authoritarian nationalists. As far as the political spectrum goes, it's not possible to get farther away from fascism than anti-fascism.

The opposite of Authoritarian Nationalists are Authoritarian Internationalists.
Yes, so different, its almost like light and day!

markodaly

Brian? wrote: »

I don’t know. Have you asked them? I assume it’s because they’re misguided eejits who are undermining their own cause by attacking the wrong people. They should stick to the actual fascists. There’s plenty around theses days.

Have you? I hear their shick online and its all non-sense, its 'Everyone I disagree with is a Nazi'.

I think there is a hero complex among many of these misguided souls. They are so like their far right brethren it would make a very good Mel Brooks comedy.

It still does not explain why these idiots use fascists tendencies to try and silence people who are not even remotely fascists.

markodaly

To lighten the mood.

Havockk

markodaly wrote: »

The opposite of Authoritarian Nationalists are Authoritarian Internationalists.
Yes, so different, its almost like light and day!

Well Mark. Yes, internationalism is one of the core tenets of Marxism, which, as I'm sure you will agree precludes them from being fascist.

So yes, exactly like night and day, black and white, Dempsey and Makepeace.

No offence but you are essentially completely ignorant in regards to a lot of political principles. This is definitely stuff you should know for it will prevent you from embarrassing yourself online by displaying that ignorance. Pick up a book, or visit google and learn. The beauty about that is that you can remain on the right, but you can make mature arguments against Marxism, Leftism without coming over like a buffoon.

Havockk

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

But the significant Marxist component of Antifa and Far Right Extremists are both Authoritarian in nature. One is Nationalist (Far Right) the other is Socialist/Communist in nature (a lot of Antifa).

Both represent ideologies that have led to death and misery of hundreds of millions globally.

Are some in Antifa authoritarian? No doubt. However it is absolutely not a core principle, most are anarchists, lots are Marxist. Whereas with fascism authoritarianism is one of the most basic principles.

markodaly

Havockk wrote: »

Well Mark. Yes, internationalism is one of the core tenets of Marxism, which, as I'm sure you will agree precludes them from being fascist.

You forgot the word authoritarian. What binds ANTIFA and actual fascists together is their use of violence and mob rule in order to acheive a goal. Might is right. In this regard they are both like twin brothers.

So yes, exactly like night and day, black and white, Dempsey and Makepeace.

Nope,see above and get to know the horseshoe theory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory

No offence but you are essentially completely ignorant in regards to a lot of political principles. This is definitely stuff you should know for it will prevent you from embarrassing yourself online by displaying that ignorance. Pick up a book, or visit google and learn. The beauty about that is that you can remain on the right, but you can make mature arguments against Marxism, Leftism without coming over like a buffoon.

Is this you Cathy Newman? As I do not think I have made an 'arugment' apart from stating the obvious that ANTIFA act like fascists.

Are we going to talk about Lobsters now?

Havockk

markodaly wrote: »

You forgot the word authoritarian. What binds ANTIFA and actual fascists together is their use of violence and mob rule in order to acheive a goal. Might is right. In this regard they are both like twin brothers.



Nope,see above and get to know the horseshoe theory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory




Is this you Cathy Newman? As I do not think I have made an 'arugment' apart from stating the obvious that ANTIFA act like fascists.

Are we going to talk about Lobsters now?

Again Mark, I'm sorry to say you've just replied with another wall of ignorance.

Why don't you go to google and start with someone like Prof. David Harvey. At the very least get a grip on what Marxism is.

And no, I'm not Cathy, just an ornery Marxist

markodaly

Havockk wrote: »

Again Mark, I'm sorry to say you've just replied with another wall of ignorance.

Why don't you go to google and start with someone like Prof. David Harvey. At the very least get a grip on what Marxism is.

And no, I'm not Cathy, just an ornery Marxist

Its that word again, a word I have not used nor argued about. Marxism, oops I said it.

If you want to have a debate about the pros and cons of Marxist I am all ears, fire away but I think you are conflating these issues. Or are you saying that ANTIA are like the brownshirts for Marxists?

As a Marxist, how does it feel to be closer politically to Nazi skin heads then 99% of others? I think you guys need each other like Salt needs Pepper. Most of the population roll their eyes at ye and go on with their lives earning a living.

Havockk

markodaly wrote: »

Its that word again, a word I have not used nor argued about. Marxism, oops I said it.

If you want to have a debate about the pros and cons of Marxist I am all ears, fire away but I think you are conflating these issues. Or are you saying that ANTIA are like the brownshirts for Marxists?

As a Marxist, how does it feel to be closer politically to Nazi skin heads then 99% of others? I think you guys need each other like Salt needs Pepper. Most of the population roll their eyes at ye and go on with their lives earning a living.

Oh hai Mark.

If you knew what Marxism was (and believe me, you clearly do not) it would give you insight into the motives behind groups like Antifa.

Anyway, we can talk about lobsters now if you like. Mark, lobsters are red, how come we aren't red too?

markodaly

Havockk wrote: »

Oh hai Mark.

If you knew what Marxism was (and believe me, you clearly do not) it would give you insight into the motives behind groups like Antifa.

Anyway, we can talk about lobsters now if you like. Mark, lobsters are red, how come we aren't red too?

It is amazing you talk about some sort of secret sauce that is Marxism, yet you don't elaborate on what it actually is, probably because its easier to deflect than to actually engage incase you get your arse handed to you. (If I am wrong, sell it to us)

Anyway, when did this topic end up about being about Marxism?

We were talking about those idiots ANTIFA and their fascist tendencies, disrupting speeches, threatening violence and basically being dickheads. Remember the 50's when there was the Red Scare, the commies under the bed, and all that. It appears now there are Nazi's under all our beds. Who knew!

Havockk

markodaly wrote: »

It is amazing you talk about some sort of secret sauce that is Marxism, yet you don't elaborate on what it actually is, probably because its easier to deflect than to actually engage incase you get your arse handed to you. (If I am wrong, sell it to us)

Anyway, when did this topic end up about being about Marxism?

We were talking about those idiots ANTIFA and their fascist tendencies, disrupting speeches, threatening violence and basically being dickheads. Remember the 50's when there was the Red Scare, the commies under the bed, and all that. It appears now there are Nazi's under all our beds. Who knew!

Ohh I think there's a few idiots a lot closer to home there Mark

markodaly

Havockk wrote: »

Ohh I think there's a few idiots a lot closer to home there Mark

Ah so no engagement, no substance, no meat in the sandwich. Says a lot about Marxism when you are too ashamed to even sell it.

Yawn, I'm bored now.

Havockk

markodaly wrote: »

Ah so no engagement, no substance, no meat in the sandwich. Says a lot about Marxism when you are too ashamed to even sell it.

Yawn, I'm bored now.

Mark, I don't think I could sell you on oxygen, even if we were both stranded on Mars.:)

Sweetemotion

Havockk wrote: »

Mark, I don't think I could sell you on oxygen, even if we were both stranded on Mars.:)

I don't think you will be selling anything to anybody be it on earth, or on Mars. When you enter the real world away from your little college bubble and realise that the world does not give a damn about your gender studies PhD.

The Highwayman

Sweetemotion wrote: »

I don't think you will be selling anything to anybody be it on earth, or on Mars. When you enter the real world away from your little college bubble and realise that the world do not give damn about your gender studies PhD.

Hahaha brilliant

Yer Da sells Avon

Sweetemotion wrote: »

I don't think you will be selling anything to anybody be it on earth, or on Mars. When you enter the real world away from your little college bubble and realise that the world do not give damn about your gender studies PhD.

Dose academics with their bukes, wha?

Havockk

Sweetemotion wrote: »

I don't think you will be selling anything to anybody be it on earth, or on Mars. When you enter the real world away from your little college bubble and realise that the world do not give damn about your gender studies PhD.

I wouldn't dream of even trying to. An uneducated serf as myself knows his betters. Perhaps I'll have the good fortune to flip a burger for you someday. If i'm lucky like.

The Highwayman

Brian? wrote: »

There are plenty of groups doing that without being fascists. If you think that defines fascism, you need to do some book learning. Or Wikipedia fascism.

Calling antifa fascists is a lazy smear. One which i guess was started by the people Antifa were protesting against.

I do not agree with Antifas methods. They are not fascists.

The fact you can use a computer or phone would imply your not a total idiot. However your post would.

You see how that works??????

Havockk

The Highwayman wrote: »

The fact you can use a computer or phone would imply your not a total idiot. However your post would.

You see how that works??????

You're not a total idiot.